Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;884592]Well it's going to be interesting to see how Irsay treats Pagano, Grigson, and Arians (particularly the first two) but he's been pretty candid about wanting to "take back his team" so I don't know how much their opinions will matter at the end of the day[/quote]

So you trying to say he's going to be another version of Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884600]So you trying to say he's going to be another version of Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder?[/quote]

More like Paul Allen with the Trailblazers

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Maybe this was posted if so I'm sorry but it's a nice read about PM.

[url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2012/2/9/2788561/some-clarity-on-peytons-injury]Some clarity on Peyton Manning's injury - Hogs Haven[/url]

I didn't remember Montana having the same surgery. I do remember though something about worrying how fragile he might be taking a hit.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884598]I really can't think of a top QB who came into the draft with anything close to Griffin's character, work ethic and production who didn't work out. But again, people apparently want to cling to this notion that all QBs in the draft come out as some kind of dice roll, so I guess these are the "odds" we are supposed to make all our decisions by.




Frankly, yes you can. There is no single facet that comes anywhere close to predicting a team's success than the quality of their QB. In most divisions, you can rank the QBs and then go to the standings and find that you just ranked where they finished the season. If you can find a franchise QB for the next decade plus, you do it. To bypass it to draft a RT and MLB (to use the example of earlier) while farting around with the twilight of Peyton Manning's career would be the epitome of shortsightedness.



And again, that is just hogwash. There are always ways to spend your cap dollars. Just because that disputes your argument doesn't mean you can wish it away.[/quote]

Yeah I think your first problem is that you seem to think Robert Griffin is God's gift. I don't see that. I see that in Luck, but not Griffin. You also seem to think Peyton is in some sort of decline. That's the biggest source of disagreement between the two of us.

As for cap space, no, not even close. There are not THAT many good ways to spend $35 - $45 friggin million in cap space. Nobody makes that many free agent acquisitions and lives to tell the tale. See: Cerrato, Vinny.

And yes, in the end Griffin is a dice roll. People have thought extremely highly of a lot of quarterbacks. Mark Sanchez and Matt Ryan were both extremely productive, highly regarded, and high character guys. One can't muster anything better than mediocre production, and the other disappears in road games and come playoff time. You just don't know.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884591]And to this point, this line of thinking could not possibly be more shortsighted. You cannot make a QB decision like this in a vacuum. The fact of the matter is that you're not just talking about Griffin vs Manning, as someone else pointed out way earlier in this thread, you're talking about:

Manning + retaining 6 overall + retaining whatever other picks it would take to trade up for Griffin + the ability to spend 3 years finding a QB of the future

vs

Griffin

Again, I'm leaving cap room out of the equation because we're nowhere near the limit. It's not even a constraint for the Redskins.

If you ignore the downstream impact of making each move then you're not really managing the team, it's more of a fantasy football approach.[/quote]

This is kind of how I'm thinking. Sure, I wish somehow we magically have RGIII fall to us, but if it doesn't happen, we can keep years of draft picks and still be competitive. I think too many people want to just tank for years in the interest of getting younger. I'd LOVE to have RGIII or Luck, but there have been some "sure things" in the past that really destroyed high picks (and future picks).

I've said in another thread that on the surface we seem like a patient fan base but we surely would run Shanahan out of town if we drafted some young QB and went 6-10 (while showing promise).

Then the cycle begins all over again with a new coach, who might want defense to go back to the 4-3, might want a QB better for "their" system and around and around we go.

I'd love to get RGIII or Luck, but I'm totally fine with Manning as an option for a couple of years if he's healthy.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;884582]Depending on what it takes to move up for Luck, I'd be willing to trade up for him. If Polian was still the GM for the Colts it'd probably would have been easier to make that deal. Now? I know it's still being discussed but the reality is that a trade to #1 is not likely.

[B]My opinion is that the gap between Luck and the 2nd best QB in this draft (which most would say is RG3) is significantly great than that of say RG3 and Ryan Tannehill. [/B]Again, that's just my opinion. But that's one big reason why I wouldn't trade up for RG3.[/quote]

I think that you and I are the only ones here who see things that way.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884607]I think that you and I are the only ones here who see things that way.[/quote]

Count me in that group. I don' know much about Tannehill, but I do see a big gap between Luck and Griffin.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Schneed10;884605]Yeah I think your first problem is that you seem to think Robert Griffin is God's gift. I don't see that. I see that in Luck, but not Griffin. [/quote]

I don't think anyone is "God's gift" and I'm not sure what the point of a lame comment like that is. If you don't like him as a prospect, that's fine. I do, as do plenty of other people. We can disagree, but rest assured, I don't need you to tell me what "my problem" is.

[quote=Schneed10;884605]You also seem to think Peyton is in some sort of decline. That's the biggest source of disagreement between the two of us. [/quote]

Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9

A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.

People decline physically as they get older. It's not exactly controversial to say that. And taking a year off and having multiple surgeries aren't exactly elixirs for that.

[quote=Schneed10;884605]As for cap space, no, not even close. There are not THAT many good ways to spend $35 - $45 friggin million in cap space. Nobody makes that many free agent acquisitions and lives to tell the tale. See: Cerrato, Vinny. [/quote]

Ah, so once there was a terrible GM who didn't know what he was doing, so all Free Agent spending is bad. Brilliant. Does that also apply to Gibbs' Washington-Springs-Griffin-Daniels-Moss spending spree that was the basis for two playoff runs? How about the Patriots first Super Bowl win after signing about 20 FAs? There are smart ways and dumb ways to spend money, just like there are dumb ways to do most anything.

For the record, why don't you look at GTripp's breakdown of our cap space. People keep throwing these numbers around and thinking that we are going to have trouble figuring out what to do with all the cap space. Once we re-sign our own and our draft picks, that space turns into a much more pedestrian number.

[quote=Schneed10;884605]And yes, in the end Griffin is a dice roll. [/quote]

Thank goodness we don't have a FO that thinks of things so simplistically.

[quote=Schneed10;884605] People have thought extremely highly of a lot of quarterbacks. Mark Sanchez and Matt Ryan were both extremely productive, highly regarded, and high character guys. One can't muster anything better than mediocre production, and the other disappears in road games and come playoff time. You just don't know. [/quote]

Yeah, I'll take Ryan and his future any day, thank you.

Sanchez had only one year of starting in college, which is a huge red flag. He also had an arrest on his record, and other maturity questions.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I agree that RGIII is a dice roll IF we trade up for him. If he falls to us at six, that's a very appropriate place for a highly regarded QB to go. Every year there's someone like that.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884586]Funny cause I'm beginning to think the Colts possibly take RGIII instead based off of maybe what the new OC is going to want to do and what his scheme calls for. RGIII is definitely more mobile then Luck.[/quote]

People say that, but is that really true? The rushing stats between the two are fairly similar. RGIII ran more than Luck who is definitely more of a pocket passer, but in one year, Luck had a far higher rushing average (with a decent sample size). The very few times I watched the two, neither were very "shifty", but Luck seemed to have more of a burst.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884623]I don't think anyone is "God's gift" and I'm not sure what the point of a lame comment like that is. If you don't like him as a prospect, that's fine. I do, as do plenty of other people. We can disagree, but rest assured, I don't need you to tell me what "my problem" is.



[B]Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9
[/B]
A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.

People decline physically as they get older. It's not exactly controversial to say that. And taking a year off and having multiple surgeries aren't exactly elixirs for that.



Ah, so once there was a terrible GM who didn't know what he was doing, so all Free Agent spending is bad. Brilliant. Does that also apply to Gibbs' Washington-Springs-Griffin-Daniels-Moss spending spree that was the basis for two playoff runs? How about the Patriots first Super Bowl win after signing about 20 FAs? There are smart ways and dumb ways to spend money, just like there are dumb ways to do most anything.

For the record, why don't you look at GTripp's breakdown of our cap space. People keep throwing these numbers around and thinking that we are going to have trouble figuring out what to do with all the cap space. Once we re-sign our own and our draft picks, that space turns into a much more pedestrian number.



Thank goodness we don't have a FO that thinks of things so simplistically.



Yeah, I'll take Ryan and his future any day, thank you.

Sanchez had only one year of starting in college, which is a huge red flag. He also had an arrest on his record, and other maturity questions.[/quote]


Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[url=http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31861-call-for-redskins-to-sign-manning]Call for Redskins to sign Manning[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884634]Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..[/quote]

Even if he had a "steep decline" to 85, that's still pretty damn good. I just want a QB that doesn't force balls and either can a) throw the ball away or b) have enough strength to hang onto it if they're getting sacked.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884634]Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..[/quote]

No, but there's really no reason to believe we'd see them in DC from Manning, either.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884638]Even if he had a "steep decline" to 85, that's still pretty damn good. [/quote]

An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884639]No, but there's really no reason to believe we'd see them in DC from Manning, either.[/quote]

Why not? Let's assume that Peyton comes back healthy, maybe limited strength-wise, but still have that brain and leadership. We have a very similar receiving corps to the Colts. System might be very different, but I'd imagine Manning would have just a touch of autonomy in this offense.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884641]An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.[/quote]

I'd have been fine if he stayed too. He was behind what could have been considered one of the worst lines in Redskins history. All I ask for is an improvement in QB play. If it's Peyton, that's an improvement, even if he drops off. If it's Orton, Flynn, Hoyer, me, I don't care... my main thing is that I don't want to gift up draft picks.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884642]Why not? Let's assume that Peyton comes back healthy, maybe limited strength-wise, but still have that brain and leadership. We have a very similar receiving corps to the Colts. System might be very different, but I'd imagine Manning would have just a touch of autonomy in this offense.[/quote]

Why would you assume a player is going to be as good at 36 as he was at 34? And after a year off, multiple surgeries and a change of teams? And I wouldn't agree that our receivers, or pass protection for that matter, are as good as he had in Indy.

But even if he were to get back to that level, my point was more aimed at the totality of his numbers. As much as I think it is unwise to bet on him being as good as he was before the year off, I would say it's doubly or triply foolish to think he's going to go back to what he was in his prime years.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/peyton-manning-washington-redskins-should-get-him-as-soon-as-hes-available/2012/02/08/gIQAg0nRzQ_story_1.html]Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884648]Why would you assume a player is going to be as good at 36 as he was at 34? And after a year off, multiple surgeries and a change of teams? And I wouldn't agree that our receivers, or pass protection for that matter, are as good as he had in Indy.

But even if he were to get back to that level, my point was more aimed at the totality of his numbers. As much as I think it is unwise to bet on him being as good as he was before the year off, I would say it's doubly or triply foolish to think he's going to go back to what he was in his prime years.[/quote]

I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/why-would-peyton-manning-want-to-play-for-the-redskins/2012/02/10/gIQAeZxP4Q_blog.html]Why would Peyton Manning want to play for the Redskins? - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

And then a great article by Wise.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884651]I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.[/quote]

I was just answering your question of why I didn't think there was any reason to expect to see Manning's old numbers in DC.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;884650]Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/peyton-manning-washington-redskins-should-get-him-as-soon-as-hes-available/2012/02/08/gIQAg0nRzQ_story_1.html]Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

I don't consider that a good read at all, frankly. And not just because I disagree with her. There are multiple posters in this thread who I couldn't disagree with more who've put together much more salient arguments than she did.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884657]I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.[/quote]

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons]NFL -- Peyton Manning has top two QBR seasons - ESPN[/url]

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards :)

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Manning is clearly on the down side of his carreer. With a neck fusion he is affected for life with limited mobility in his neck area. He was never a drop back passer with Indy most of his time was spent in shotgun (he would step up to make calls but would settle into shotgun formation). If he were to come to the skins he would need the offense taylored to his liking.

The Shanahans currently have no audibles, no two minute offense, and micromanage all aspects of the offense, not sure if that was due to lack of confidence in Grossman/Beck or just their MO. However that would all have to be changed for Manning. Not sure if they are willing to do that for a player with a deficiancy, on the down side of his carreer that doesn't fit the system.

RGIII is young and is probably more coachable that most of the qbs that have been here since the Shannys came in. Also, RGII is more than capable of learning how the drop back in a pro style offense, if he hasn't already learned, all prospects have private coaching proir to the combine.

Barkley please don't go there, when was the last time a USC qb came out that actually had a quality carreer?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884641]An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.[/quote]

Anything Campbell did for the good was done in garbage time after the game was essentially over.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;884658]Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

[/quote]
Wow, didn't know they did that, no surprise about Manning though.

[quote]And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards :)[/quote]
Hah, I sure was, I think I quoted a post of yours specifically. Seems like a lot more valuable information to be found here, with much less filtering, so I figured I might as well just join up.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=whistler;884317]It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


Package A:

1) RGIII


Package B:
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)

This is not an acccurate assesment of what is needed to get RGIII. If RGIII is picked by the skins they could still have their remaining picks this year under one scenario.
1) RGIII
2)2012 2nd rounder
3)2012 3rd rounder
4)2012 4th rounder
5)2012 5th rounder
6)2012 6th rounder
Would all still be available for the skins

They would probably have to surrender the 2012 1st, 2013 1st, and possibly Orakpo to make this happen, But in no way would they have to surrender the whole 2012 draft to get RGIII, that is ridiculous. No one is considering that Orakpo has possibly peaked and is very tradable at this point. Jeff Fisher would probably see this deal as 3 first rounders for the no.2 pick this year. Very doable.[/quote]

I get the excitement of the draft, I do, but why waste your time putting this stuff together? I mean really, not on 2012 projections but 2013 as well. SMH

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884657]I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.[/quote]

Football Outsiders' stats show the exact same trend line for Manning as Passer Rating- consistently moving downwarrd, with a bit fo an uptick in 09.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

To me it's like Schneed said, get PM who will not effect our draft at all and will not be a very big CAP hit.

You still want to waist draft picks and move up for RGIII good for you guys.

Me... I'd prefer to trade back for more picks which means more players which means more chances on hitting good players. Getting younger and faster and healthier at all positions is key. If RGIII falls to number 6 then I'm in for taking him but I'm not for mortgaging the teams future for one player. He's not the only player to come out of the draft with similar skill sets ie; Newton last year. Next year it will probably be the LSU kid who decided to stay in college.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[IMG]http://lp.imageg.net/prod?set=key[name],value[HERE+WE+GO]&set=key[number],value[18]&set=key[displaysize],value[500]&load=url[http://chains.imageg.net/graphics/dynamic/chains/p2755243_customback.chain][/IMG]
Signing Peyton Manning doesn't preclude the team from acquiring a potential 'franchise' QB.

It simply reduces the urgency to acquire a QB of the future [I][B]this [/B][/I]draft, thus allowing the top draft choices to go directly towards adding young talent to the roster. (OL, WR etc)

It allows the team the choice to develop and groom a QB of the future at [I][B]their[/B][/I] pace.
Sure they could draft a QB with the 6th pick or in the second round or 3rd round.
But I think the team would be better served adding talent for Peyton with this draft class top picks.
Then they could draft a mid-round QB prospect or they could draft a 1st round QB in future drafts if neccesary.

Now if they choose to draft a QB in a future draft while Peyton is under the center we likely/hopefully won't be picking in the top half of the draft.
But we all now that franchise can come from anywhere in the draft they're not relegated exclusively to the top 10 picks.

A recent example is Joe Flacco who was drafted with 18th pick in the same draft where Matt Ryan was drafted with the 3rd pick.
I think its fair to say that both QBs have proven themselves their respectives team's 'franchise' QBs?

The Ravens moved up from the [I][B]26th[/B][/I] pick to the [I][B]18th[/B][/I] pick by giving up a only a 3rd round pick and a 6th round pick.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884657]Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.[/quote]

Or it could be that he has less he can afford to lose in physical skill, and less to gain in experience, which could make his decline steeper. In baseball, speed players lose their value less as they age than other players.

In fact, go look at the careers of the 10 QBs Pro Football Reference has as most similar to Manning. It's only the mobile ones- Young, Elway, Favre, Staubach- who didn't become shells of themselves after the age of 35. Montana, who was always reasonably, but not overly, athletic, was still good for a couple of years, but definitely off his peak year performances.
The other 5 on the list (Unitas, Marino, Anderson, Kelly, Fouts), who seem to all fit exactly the profile you laid out- not over athletic, not earth-shattering physical skills, but cerebral and prepared- all would have done well to retire by the age Manning is now.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

create a custom jersey at nflshop, name: manning, number: 18, if you want to get an idea

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CapitalDefense;884662]I get the excitement of the draft, I do, but why waste your time putting this stuff together? I mean really, not on 2012 projections but 2013 as well. SMH[/quote]it can be fun to use your imagination

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Griffin without doubt. Do whatever it takes. Young, athletic, throws a pretty long ball and best of all will bring excitement and invigorate the fanbase

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884623]
Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9

A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.
[/quote]

Could you please provide RGIII's passer rating for comparison? Thanx.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

For me it all depends on how FA shakes out. There's multiple scenarios here which I wouldn't mind if it happened.

Scenario A:
Sign Manning in FA, trade down in first, pick up multiple picks, take Tannehill in late first/early second and also use other picks to fill other spots, like maybe a Kendall Wright or Juron Criner to help out Manning.

Scenario B:
RG3 falls to 6, we take him. No trade down, no FA qb, etc. This would be a scenario I wouldn't see happening as the Shannies' first choice, but one where if the situation did occure they'd take advantage of.

Scenario C: Crazy trade scenario where we trade up to 1, Colts trade down to 2, and Rams trade down to 6. We get Luck, Colts get RG3, and Rams get draft picks to help out Bradford.

Scenarios I would be pissed if they happened:

Scenario D: We sign Orton in FA, and take one of the non-Tannehill 2nd rate draft qb's available and head into TC with Orton and 2nd rate guy ready to battle.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884633]People say that, but is that really true? The rushing stats between the two are fairly similar. RGIII ran more than Luck who is definitely more of a pocket passer, but in one year, Luck had a far higher rushing average (with a decent sample size). The very few times I watched the two, neither were very "shifty", but Luck seemed to have more of a burst.[/quote]

Probably already answered but I think you have to actually "watch" the team to determine their situation. What I mean is Luck was probably asked to sit in the pocket and deliver the ball but was flushed due to a mediocre OL and yes he would have a lot of yardage because of this. RGIII probably had a whole offense designed around him where if he doesn't see anything down field with in a few seconds he would just take off and run. As an example I'd say a young Vick vs. a young anyone else with a bad OL. lol.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Wait. Luck had a mediocre line? I wouldn't say that at all.