Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Lotus;1037503]I didn't mean that we should take it that far. But perhaps we should recognize that they might have a right to be upset and touchy about some things which for anyone else would just be whining.[/quote]

I think we should focus more on issues American Indians really still endure. I think we missing the point and Dan could be missing an opportunity to maybe turning this around into something positive. Skins could reach out with other teams with an indian mascot/name for a pow wow build an understanding and talk about some real issues. Then we could smoka the peace pipe (packed with medicinal).

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1037504]I think we should focus more on issues American Indians really still endure. I think we missing the point and Dan could be missing an opportunity to maybe turning this around into something positive. Skins could reach out with other teams with an indian mascot/name for a pow wow build an understanding and talk about some real issues. Then we could smoka the peace pipe (packed with medicinal).[/quote]

I agree with this. Major problems faced by Native Americans include poverty and a lack of employment opportunities. Deep Pockets Danny could respond in a way which makes folks happy and grateful.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Lotus;1037505]I agree with this. Major problems faced by Native Americans include poverty and a lack of employment opportunities. Deep Pockets Danny could respond in a way which makes folks happy and grateful.[/quote]

Id like to see an united effort with sports and American Indians, bring awareness, fund raising and real programs to help. Hell I bet you bring some Indians into fed ex for a game, those offended probably see a different side.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Having mostly grown up on a reservation and seeing how it's changed over the last several decades I tend to believe the team name issue is just another ploy to get more money by the tribe in question. Over the last few years on the Flathead reservation, non tribal members started getting letters from the tribe that say all ground water (from wells, cisterns etc.) have "become the property of the tribe" and if you still want access to your own well, that may have been there for decades already, you must start sending payments to the tribe. No joke here. Some people are actually paying out of fear because the tribe is so litigious and aggressive. Others just say fuck off. And the smart ones are fighting it legally. So yeah, when I hear complaining about the name issue I think they see green, not red, so to speak.

Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1037504]I think we should focus more on issues American Indians really still endure. I think we missing the point and Dan could be missing an opportunity to maybe turning this around into something positive. Skins could reach out with other teams with an indian mascot/name for a pow wow build an understanding and talk about some real issues. Then we could smoka the peace pipe (packed with medicinal).[/QUOTE]

Do you think people would take that as we are paying them to go away as opposed to something positive?
Edit: i happen to think it is a fantastic idea but people who just want to attack DS and the skins will twist it into something bad

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1037506]Id like to see an united effort with sports and American Indians, bring awareness, fund raising and real programs to help. Hell I bet you bring some Indians into fed ex for a game, those offended probably see a different side.[/QUOTE]

They will see how bad we are and take pity. Lol

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037483]There are several different theories and accounts about where the term came from. Nowhere is it definitively stated that the new foundland tribe who painted their bodies red is the true origin. Not to mention, that settlers referring to native americans as "redskins", and this tribe referred to as the "red men" are two completely different things.[/quote]

A Senior Linguist from the Smithsonian seems like a pretty credible source to me, especially since his research was extensive, thorough and took months to complete. The point I've tried to make is that this is a unique situation with no comparable equivalent and is hardly an open and shut case.

There is no "fuzziness" surrounding other "slurs" that people try to equate with the word "Redskin". There is no debate on their origin, no debate among the offended community on acceptability and no examples of the word being used the way Redskins is used by dozens of High Schools across the country, some of which are over 100 years old.

Changing an 80 year old brand name with millions of loyal customers is not a trivial thing, and it shouldn't surprise anyone when it doesn't happen immediately just because of heightened media attention.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037516[B]]Do you think people would take that as we are paying them to go away as opposed to something positive?[/B]
Edit: i happen to think it is a fantastic idea but people who just want to attack DS and the skins will twist it into something bad[/quote]

Honestly who cares what they think. I think that is what is wrong with this entire issue, we're too worried about what people think who are not involved directly in this.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037483]There are several different theories and accounts about where the term came from. Nowhere is it definitively stated that the new foundland tribe who painted their bodies red is the true origin. Not to mention, that settlers referring to native americans as "redskins", and this tribe referred to as the "red men" are two completely different things.[/quote]


It is here...

[url=http://www.indianz.com/News/2013/008558.asp]Indianz.Com > Doug George-Kanentiio: A Mohawk's perspective on 'Redskins'[/url]


The use of “redskins” was among the worse of these labels. That word originally referred to the Beothuks of Newfoundland, a peaceful people who colored their skin with red ochre as adornment and to keep the mosquitoes at bay. Their passivity was mistaken for weakness and after the waves of European diseases killed most of them those who survived were hunted and murdered for sport. By 1830 they were extinct. One of the reprehensible tactics was to remove the skins of the Beothuks and use them as covers for books and as leggings for the hunters.

This act of skinning Native people, both men and women, continued on along the frontier. It was an act of terror meant to instill fear and drive the Natives from coveted lands. It was justified by these stereotypes that were highly effective in undermining the dignity, pride and self-assurance of our people. We are, among all peoples in this hemisphere, the most misunderstood, the most libeled and the most despised because of the lies in the media, in popular literature and, sadly, in the schools.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

The world we live in:

Hallmark ornament has 'Deck the Halls' -- without the gay apparel

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/30/us/hallmark-deck-the-halls-ornament/]Hallmark 'Deck the Halls,' without gay apparel - CNN.com[/url]

[QUOTE=Giantone;1037533]It is here...

[url=http://www.indianz.com/News/2013/008558.asp]Indianz.Com > Doug George-Kanentiio: A Mohawk's perspective on 'Redskins'[/url]


The use of “redskins” was among the worse of these labels. That word originally referred to the Beothuks of Newfoundland, a peaceful people who colored their skin with red ochre as adornment and to keep the mosquitoes at bay. Their passivity was mistaken for weakness and after the waves of European diseases killed most of them those who survived were hunted and murdered for sport. By 1830 they were extinct. One of the reprehensible tactics was to remove the skins of the Beothuks and use them as covers for books and as leggings for the hunters.

This act of skinning Native people, both men and women, continued on along the frontier. It was an act of terror meant to instill fear and drive the Natives from coveted lands. It was justified by these stereotypes that were highly effective in undermining the dignity, pride and self-assurance of our people. We are, among all peoples in this hemisphere, the most misunderstood, the most libeled and the most despised because of the lies in the media, in popular literature and, sadly, in the schools.[/QUOTE]

What i meant by two different things was that "redskins" or " red men" seems to have two different starting points. One being that tribe because of the paint they used and one being in reference to skin color of the native americans.

Anyway, again, just for the record ....i am not in favor of a name change because i too think their are so many greater issues. I also think that even if the name has "racist roots", (which according to some experts it does and some it doesnt ) , that over time it has morphed into an almost racism free name. I do however respect and sympathize with any one persons concerns or feelings over the issue. I dont care how in the minority or majority that person is. I dont think it is in any way compassionate to have a "get over it" attitude twards those people. As a matter of fact I despise that take on it.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Love this bit of news:

[url=http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/anti-redskins-activist-confronted-by-tribe-advocate-at-press-conference/]Anti-Redskins activist confronted at press conference | The Daily Caller[/url]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

What a Great find! This apparently is a very bad character......
And he's leading the charge for the Indians? or maybe just for profit? Lol.....
I'm pretty sure he was one of my dealers.....BITD

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Even better, here's the video of the confrontation:

[url=http://youtu.be/xD_wXgWzTgQ]Claudia Tenney -- Ousted by Halbritter Minions - YouTube[/url]

And one more:

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/11/01/oneida-indian-nfl-washington-redskins/3354339/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomNfl-TopStories+%28USATODAY+-+NFL+Top+Stories%29]NFL will meet with Oneida Indian who backs Redskins name[/url]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

This guy is a fraud, fuck him.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1037557]Love this bit of news:

[url=http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/anti-redskins-activist-confronted-by-tribe-advocate-at-press-conference/]Anti-Redskins activist confronted at press conference | The Daily Caller[/url][/quote]

The problem is it's in the Daily Caller. The national Media has picked their side in this argument. Stories like this and others like the one below hardly see the light of day and are relegated to blogs and local rags:

[url=http://lowersouthampton.patch.com/groups/schools/p/mother-calls-neshaminy-redskins-racist-again]Mother Calls Neshaminy 'Redskins' Racist, Again - Schools - Lower Southampton, PA Patch[/url]


From the comments section:

Jenny Benner Barnes May 01, 2013 at 04:31 PM
I am a descendant of American Indians, and find it a prideful thing to call Neshaminy and the Redskins my alma matter.. it's in no way racist or insulting to anyone. People like this need to find a worthy cause and stop wasting the school boards time.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=44Deezel;1037591]The problem is it's in the Daily Caller. The national Media has picked their side in this argument. Stories like this and others like the one below hardly see the light of day and are relegated to blogs and local rags:

[url=http://lowersouthampton.patch.com/groups/schools/p/mother-calls-neshaminy-redskins-racist-again]Mother Calls Neshaminy 'Redskins' Racist, Again - Schools - Lower Southampton, PA Patch[/url]


From the comments section:

Jenny Benner Barnes May 01, 2013 at 04:31 PM
I am a descendant of American Indians, and find it a prideful thing to call Neshaminy and the Redskins my alma matter.. it's in no way racist or insulting to anyone. People like this need to find a worthy cause and stop wasting the school boards time.[/quote]

[IMG]http://buckslocalnews.com/content/articles/2013/09/21/bucks_sports/doc523defc516ed52469373101.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Giantone;1037533]It is here...

[url=http://www.indianz.com/News/2013/008558.asp]Indianz.Com > Doug George-Kanentiio: A Mohawk's perspective on 'Redskins'[/url]
.

(snip)[/quote]Good grief! Even in your link, let alone other links you been shown on this board, the name "Redskins" actually predates Indians getting scalped.

The argument against the name "redskins" is still stupid. And you're still being irrational in this debate, the eli manning isn't elite debate, gun control... etc?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Giantone so is it safe to say you think the name is offensive and raciest?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038494]Giantone so is it safe to say you think the name is offensive and raciest?[/quote]


I have let my feelings be know in other threads on the subject ,if you are interested it can be looked up .

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Giantone;1038643]I have let my feelings be know in other threads on the subject ,if you are interested it can be looked up .[/quote]


It was a pretty simple question you could have answered just as easy as your comment.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Lotus;1037505]I agree with this. Major problems faced by Native Americans include poverty and a[B] lack of employment opportunities[/B]. Deep Pockets Danny could respond in a way which makes folks happy and grateful.[/quote]

Indians don't have the same employment opportunities as everyone else?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038698]Indians don't have the same employment opportunities as everyone else?[/quote]

Not really. On Western reservations some students have to travel 30 miles over dirt roads just to get to a school, residential areas are remote and have little access to the services we rely on in our society. On a per capita basis they have much more obstacles.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1038699]Not really. On Western reservations some students have to travel 30 miles over dirt roads just to get to a school, residential areas are remote and have little access to the services we rely on in our society. On a per capita basis they have much more obstacles.[/quote]

Not to get into a debate on this but that's a choice they have made. No one stopping them from buying a house in a neighborhood and going to the same schools as everyone else.

[QUOTE=firstdown;1038702]Not to get into a debate on this but that's a choice they have made. No one stopping them from buying a house in a neighborhood and going to the same schools as everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Yeah in Oklahoma if u are native u are pretty much set on a higher pedestal. They get treated fine here I'll just say that

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038702]Not to get into a debate on this but that's a choice they have made. No one stopping them from buying a house in a neighborhood and going to the same schools as everyone else.[/quote]

We will have to agree to disagree then. I don't see how a 13 year old is capable of moving to Pheonix from the middle of the mojave.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

This last page of posts is what we really should be talking about when discussing the plight of the American Indian. Really need to bring some awareness to the situation. Its sad

[QUOTE=firstdown;1038702]Not to get into a debate on this but that's a choice they have made. No one stopping them from buying a house in a neighborhood and going to the same schools as everyone else.[/QUOTE]

Oh man.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1038715]This last page of posts is what we really should be talking about when discussing the plight of the American Indian. Really need to bring some awareness to the situation. Its sad[/quote]

Unless you're like some folks and think that they made a conscious decision to take the short stick and there's no plight to speak of. :doh:

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1038763]Unless you're like some folks and think that they made a conscious decision to take the short stick and there's no plight to speak of. :doh:[/quote]

They did get the short stick but in life you have two choices. Keep holding onto that short stick or look to better what you have.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1038715]This last page of posts is what we really should be talking about when discussing the plight of the American Indian. Really need to bring some awareness to the situation. Its sad[/quote]

That would be a great way for the Skins to put a pr spin on this (I am actually using pr spin as a positive whodathunkit). Much as October is Breast Cancer awareness, the Skins could use September or December to pay tribute to Native American heritage that the name is intended to honor. And use a portion of the proceeds to improving schools or infrastructure on Indian lands. mlmpert's truck when you need it!!!

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1038771]That would be a great way for the Skins to put a pr spin on this (I am actually using pr spin as a positive whodathunkit). Much as October is Breast Cancer awareness, the Skins could use September or December to pay tribute to Native American heritage that the name is intended to honor. And use a portion of the proceeds to improving schools or infrastructure on Indian lands. mlmpert's truck when you need it!!![/quote]

why not to try to turn it to something positive? its an opportunity, I think it would be great.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1038771]That would be a great way for the Skins to put a pr spin on this (I am actually using pr spin as a positive whodathunkit). Much as October is Breast Cancer awareness, the Skins could use September or December to pay tribute to Native American heritage that the name is intended to honor. And use a portion of the proceeds to improving schools or infrastructure on Indian lands. mlmpert's truck when you need it!!![/quote]

While that makes since it could also have a negative spin. One it keeps the attention to the conflict and you don't think the media would spin this as Snyder trying to buy his way out?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

I am sure there would be a reaction to that. "Why wait 80 years to reachout? etc." That said I think sometimes confronting an issue head on is better than doing nothing. Not sure if the $$ are feasible for Snyder to battle the PR though.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038696]It was a pretty simple question you could have answered just as easy as your comment.[/quote]


....and you can look it up .

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=firstdown;1038768]They did get the short stick but in life you have two choices. Keep holding onto that short stick or look to better what you have.[/quote]


Oh , so you have lived in their shoes ?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Giantone;1038783]Oh , so you have lived in their shoes ?[/quote]

That's stupid. They wear Moccasins.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1038771]That would be a great way for the Skins to put a pr spin on this (I am actually using pr spin as a positive whodathunkit). Much as October is Breast Cancer awareness, the [B]Skins could use September or December to pay tribute to Native American heritage[/B] that the name is intended to honor. And use a portion of the proceeds to improving schools or infrastructure on Indian lands. mlmpert's truck when you need it!!![/quote]
You don't think the timing would be viewed as.......suspect?
I mean really, after a few hundred years of lies and deceit, the Indians are hip to the trickery of the.........wily Long Knives.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1038771]That would be a great way for the Skins to put a pr spin on this (I am actually using pr spin as a positive whodathunkit). Much as October is Breast Cancer awareness, the Skins could use September or December to pay tribute to Native American heritage that the name is intended to honor. And use a portion of the proceeds to improving schools or infrastructure on Indian lands. mlmpert's truck when you need it!!![/quote]

Well, November is Native American Heritage Month...so that's probably the best choice