Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Lotus;801038]I see nothing wrong with Beck's arm. He does sometimes have that quirky 3/4 semi-sidearm release, rather than an over-the-top release, though.[/quote]

What's your problem?
[IMG]http://www.bernie-kosar.com/kosar.gif[/IMG]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Monkeydad;801050]What's your problem?
[IMG]http://www.bernie-kosar.com/kosar.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Some folks can get away with that funky motion. Many folks can't.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801019]I'd love to go after Clausen...would even seriously consider Matt Moore but he may no better than a solid backup[/quote]McNabb for Clausen straight up. Gives Newton an mentor and a year to sit. Gives Clausen a fresh start with an O minded HC. Value for both is close.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

The thing I noticed with Beck is that as a rookie, when he got deeper in the game he got happy feet. I do like though that he puts touch on his throws and is able to anticipate routes at this level. However as a rookie he may have been over his head. 2010 preseason aside where he had like a day to learn the offense his preseason play has been pretty good.

[YT]cXLIVDOawcI[/YT]
Still in his debut he started out strong then started to unravel as he got deeper into the playbook and away from the scripted plays. Personally I kind of want to ride the Beck experiment. Sure it could easily blow up in our face, but the worst that will happen is we get in better position to select a QB next year.

Furthermore I think the plan to win games this year is with tough defense and getting the lineman to perfect the zone scheme we have in place. The line was much better at the end of the year once they gelled. Also have one of the backs develop along with Torrain so we don't have to worry about injuring a playing that could have easily had 1,200 to 1,300 yards if he didn't get injured.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;801085]McNabb for Clausen straight up. Gives Newton an mentor and a year to sit. Gives Clausen a fresh start with an O minded HC. Value for both should is close.[/quote]

I'd do that in a heartbeat.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Hard to hold too much against him for his limited playing time in Miami. He was a rookie on a flat out horrible team.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;801102]Hard to hold too much against him for his limited playing time in Miami. He was a rookie on a flat out horrible team.[/quote]

That is true, I'm wanting to see what he's got

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

who know's maybe Beck is the next Tony Romo?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

After watching NFL highlights of Beck all I gotta say if he is the starter "Welcome to the Redskins Mr. Luck!"

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801019]I'd love to go after Clausen...would even seriously consider Matt Moore but he may no better than a solid backup[/quote]

Clausen's situation in many ways is similar to that of John Beck, he never had a realistic opportunity to succeed, goes back to our mini conversation the other day about QB's with potential that often find themselves in the wrong landing spot early in their careers.

In that regard I agree with both you and celts32, given the proper time and situation the guy could flourish but, just judging from last years performance his initial critics are ready to write him off.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;801117]Clausen's situation in many ways is similar to that of John Beck, he never had a realistic opportunity to succeed, goes back to our mini conversation the other day about QB's with potential that often find themselves in the wrong landing spot early in their careers.

In that regard I agree with both you and celts32, given the proper time and situation the guy could flourish but,[B] just judging from last years performance his initial critics are ready to write him off[/B].[/quote]

He still has one believer.
[IMG]http://thefastertimes.com/football/files/2009/12/cerratoeye.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Mike Shanahan is a very good QB developer/mentor/guru or whatever you wanna call it and he's also an egomaniac.

There is no way Mike Shanahan starts a QB he thinks is gonna fail.

And if Kyle screws it up this year I would bet dollars to donuts Mike S. will be more hands on.

Chan Gailey did it with Ryan effing Fitzpatrick, Josh McDaniels did it w/ Kyle Orton.

I believe his rep as a QB guru is on the line.

He will not fail, again.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=30gut;801228]Mike Shanahan is a very good QB developer/mentor/guru or whatever you wanna call it and he's also an egomaniac.

There is no way Mike Shanahan starts a QB he thinks is gonna fail.

And if Kyle screws it up this year I would bet dollars to donuts Mike S. will be more hands on.

Chan Gailey did it with Ryan effing Fitzpatrick, Josh McDaniels did it w/ Kyle Orton.

I believe his rep as a QB guru is on the line.

He will not fail, again.[/quote]

Not sure why you call Shanahan a QB developer. None of the QBs that him or Kyle have developed have become anything overly special. I mean take away Elway, and Shanny hasn't won a damn thing with his development projects. I mean this is really borderline pathetic in how we are looking at our "savior" in terms of reality to what he actually has done with Qbs. Mike Shanahan is a decent coach, and I do think he can get us to be a contender, but he is no genius at developing QBs. Orton is a good QB, but not sure he would lead us to a SB, much less John Beck. Same thing with Cutler, above average, but nothing like a Manning or Brady.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Jake Plummer? Brian Griese? Heck even Cutler, all these guys played their best ball with Shanahan. That's not some coincidence.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I guess the gist of the above post is we need to quit drinking the cool aid with our coaches. We have an above average staff, that is capable, but to say they are gurus, etc is going totally overboard. Post Elway, the Broncos were classic underachievers with all that offensive firepower they had, in the weakest divion in the NFl to boot. Orton and Cutler were from big time college programs and were expected to be NFL caliber QBs. Shanny really didn't do all that much since they had the talent already. Now if he at some point mentored Brady, Manning, or even Big Ben, you could be onto something, but any post Elway QB MS "developed" has been just above average, where is just where they would be if somone else "developed" them.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;801244]Jake Plummer? Brian Griese? Heck even Cutler, all these guys played their best ball with Shanahan. That's not some coincidence.[/quote]


How many SBs do those guys have under Shanny? Also they played their best ball because of the system and how frigging stacked Denver was during that period in the weakest division in the NFL. ALso, look at the quality of guys you have mentioned. All from big schools, so they already had oodles of talent to begin with. Not saying Shanny isn't a QB developer Matty, just saying I don't think he is a guru. His system helps QBs to succeed, but the QBs he had, already had the tools. Now if he had won another SB or two, say with Plummer and was a serious contender for others, then I would go along with you and believe he was a "guru", but to me he just has a good system that is QB friendly.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;801249]How many SBs do those guys have under Shanny? Also they played their best ball because of the system and how frigging stacked Denver was during that period in the weakest division in the NFL. ALso, look at the quality of guys you have mentioned. All from big schools, so they already had oodles of talent to begin with. Not saying Shanny isn't a QB developer Matty, just saying I don't think he is a guru. His system helps QBs to succeed, but the QBs he had, already had the tools. Now if he had won another SB or two, say with Plummer and was a serious contender for others, then I would go along with you and believe he was a "guru", but to me he just has a good system that is QB friendly.[/quote]

Both Plummer and Griese went to an AFC CHAMP w Shanny. It's hard to win SBs my man. I do agree on Beck though, I'm worried just as much as u are

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;801095]The thing I noticed with Beck is that as a rookie, when he got deeper in the game he got happy feet. I do like though that he puts touch on his throws and is able to anticipate routes at this level. However as a rookie he may have been over his head. 2010 preseason aside where he had like a day to learn the offense his preseason play has been pretty good.

[YT]cXLIVDOawcI[/YT]
Still in his debut he started out strong then started to unravel as he got deeper into the playbook and away from the scripted plays. Personally I kind of want to ride the Beck experiment. Sure it could easily blow up in our face, but the worst that will happen is we get in better position to select a QB next year.

Furthermore I think the plan to win games this year is with tough defense and getting the lineman to perfect the zone scheme we have in place. The line was much better at the end of the year once they gelled. Also have one of the backs develop along with Torrain so we don't have to worry about injuring a playing that could have easily had 1,200 to 1,300 yards if he didn't get injured.[/quote]



I'll admit, some of those throws are BIG TIME NFL throws. Maybe MS knows something the rest don't

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Elway also played some of his best ball with Shanahan. Sure Shanny didn't win SB's without Elway, but vice versa is also true.

And you can't just explain away Plummer and Griese as having stacked teams. That just wasn't the case.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Don't forget Steve Young. He credits Shanahan with really pushing him and turning his career around when he was the OC in San Fran

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;801242]Not sure why you call Shanahan a QB developer. None of the QBs that him or Kyle have developed have become anything overly special. I mean take away Elway, and Shanny hasn't won a damn thing with his development projects. I mean this is really borderline pathetic in how we are looking at our "savior" in terms of reality to what he actually has done with Qbs. Mike Shanahan is a decent coach, and I do think he can get us to be a contender, but he is no genius at developing QBs. Orton is a good QB, but not sure he would lead us to a SB, much less John Beck. Same thing with Cutler, above average, but nothing like a Manning or Brady.[/quote]

[IMG]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9596/kobewhatever2.png[/IMG]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Mattyk;801262]Elway also played some of his best ball with Shanahan. Sure Shanny didn't win SB's without Elway, but vice versa is also true.[/quote]

Elway wins 2 SB's under Shanny and none before says something right there as well as the Steve Young connection.

As for looking at some John Beck footage you might want to look at this too. Johnny's last full game, the 4th preseason game against Atlanta, sure it was preseason but his first drive was against the Atlanta starters while he was using both starters and second stringers. I will let the Video speak for itself.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009090352/2009/PRE4/ravens@falcons/watch]NFL Game Center: Baltimore Ravens at Atlanta Falcons - 2009 Preseason Week 4[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=gafinfan;801290][url=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009090352/2009/PRE4/ravens@falcons/watch]NFL Game Center: Baltimore Ravens at Atlanta Falcons - 2009 Preseason Week 4[/url][/quote]

Good get.
Thank you

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Beck looks like he has a hella quick release, and his drop is even faster. I like what I saw form Beck and if I would of seen these video's last year. I would of been calling for him to play the final 3 games.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

same here BUCKET. My bad on Beck looks like he's pretty good

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I hope I'm wrong on Beck, but I'm not sure I want to cash all our chips on a 30 year old who's barely played. I can't imagine we're putting this much faith in him. By we, I mean Kyle and Mike. But if that's the case, I hope he's Trent Green, not John Friesz.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I don't really care for Beck,hes not the answer for our team.We really havn't had a good QB since J.T

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;801495]I hope I'm wrong on Beck, but I'm not sure I want to cash all our chips on a 30 year old who's barely played. I can't imagine we're putting this much faith in him. By we, I mean Kyle and Mike. But if that's the case, I hope he's Trent Green, not John Friesz.[/quote]

Oh come on, it'll be fun. And I'm actually kind of serious. I love the idea of going in with a talented underdog that is completely under the radar. He can move, put touch on his throws, anticipate routes, throw deep when he needs to, and he studies like a madman.

I'm picturing Marty Ball with a more creative passing attack. If we can go 8-8 with Tony Banks as our QB then we can certainly go 8-8 with John Beck running the Shanahan offense. Besides it's not like McNabb set the bar real high.

Of course I would prefer a rookie QB with tons of upside learning on the sidelines but you can't have everything. Though I still fear a repeat of the Wurrfel, Matthews, Ramsey carousel. Okay so my faith is a wee bit shakey sue me.

[quote=elindsay;801500]I don't really care for Beck,hes not the answer for our team.We really havn't had a good QB since J.T[/quote]

How can you overlook Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, and Brad Johnson?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

^ and even M Brunell

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I'm all in with the MS plan. Going to run with Beck in my Madden Franchise...on ALL MADDEN level!!! Take that!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quoteHow can you overlook Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, and Brad Johnson?][/quote]

Actually......we havent kept a good QB since I have been watching the team. In fact by stats ....JC was the closest thing to a long term QB we have had. That is just a cursory look at TD/ Int, Yards and Comp%

Rypien inconsistant at best - he only really had two good seasons out of six (not consecutive)

Williams, as much as I liked him, he was at the end of his career here.

Johnson was good his first year and average (to bad) his second.


Joey T was the last guy who put together 3 good seasons - but that was it...just three.

This is the site I used[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm]Mark Rypien NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

I think what I am saying is we are due!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;801249]How many SBs do those guys have under Shanny? Also they played their best ball because of the system and how frigging stacked Denver was during that period in the weakest division in the NFL. ALso, look at the quality of guys you have mentioned. All from big schools, so they already had oodles of talent to begin with. Not saying Shanny isn't a QB developer Matty, just saying I don't think he is a guru. His system helps QBs to succeed, but the QBs he had, already had the tools. Now if he had won another SB or two, say with Plummer and was a serious contender for others, then I would go along with you and believe he was a "guru", but to me he just has a good system that is QB friendly.[/quote]

I think their lack of SB's had a lot more to do with other parts of their team not being up to snuff. Sure none of those QB's were all world but you can't deny what they did under Shanahan.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

At this rate McNabb is going to end up as a backup QB in Philly.

- For starters Arizona has virtually zero interest in McNabb, as we've been saying for months. Arizona is currently linked to Kolb and Bulger.

- Minnesota is interested but doesn't want to spend big money on a veteran QB after drafting Chris Ponder.

- Oakland is committed to Jason Campbell.

- Titans could be interested in bringing in a vet but like Minnesota they don't want to give McNabb a multi-year deal.

- Cincinnati. Seriously doubt it.

- 49ers claim they're serious about keeping Alex Smith and having Kaepernick develop behind him.

- Seattle wants Hasselbeck back and if they can't get him they're rumored to be targeting Kolb.

- Miami..........apparently they would rather have Palmer but this seems like it could be a match. Also hearing that they might like Young.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I honestly could see 5 returning next year

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;801540]At this rate McNabb is going to end up as a backup QB in Philly.

- For starters Arizona has virtually zero interest in McNabb, as we've been saying for months. Arizona is currently linked to Kolb and Bulger.

- Minnesota is interested but doesn't want to spend big money on a veteran QB after drafting Chris Ponder.

- Oakland is committed to Jason Campbell.

- Titans could be interested in bringing in a vet but like Minnesota they don't want to give McNabb a multi-year deal.

- Cincinnati. Seriously doubt it.

- 49ers claim they're serious about keeping Alex Smith and having Kaepernick develop behind him.

- Seattle wants Hasselbeck back and if they can't get him they're rumored to be targeting Kolb.

- Miami..........apparently they would rather have Palmer but this seems like it could be a match. Also hearing that they might like Young.[/QUOTE]

The Titans are in a terrible QB situation and could prob use McNabb...other than that ur pretty much correct. Honestly the Redskins and McNabb could really help each other by staying put for one more year. Bu egos will get in the way.

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G using Tapatalk

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;801540]At this rate McNabb is going to end up as a backup QB in Philly.

- For starters Arizona has virtually zero interest in McNabb, as we've been saying for months. Arizona is currently linked to Kolb and Bulger.

[B]- Minnesota is interested but doesn't want to spend big money on a veteran QB after drafting Chris Ponder. [/B]

- Oakland is committed to Jason Campbell.

[B]- Titans could be interested in bringing in a vet but like Minnesota they don't want to give McNabb a multi-year deal. [/B]

- Cincinnati. Seriously doubt it.

- 49ers claim they're serious about keeping Alex Smith and having Kaepernick develop behind him.

- Seattle wants Hasselbeck back and if they can't get him they're rumored to be targeting Kolb.

- Miami..........apparently they would rather have Palmer but this seems like it could be a match. Also hearing that they might like Young.[/quote]

As you indicate, those teams won't offer huge expensive multiyear deals. But I think both of those teams would not mind paying $$$ for a vet QB as a tutor for a year or two. So it depends on how deals were structured. A deal which they can get out of after a year or two (like the way we signed DMac last year) may be tolerable to both the team and to DMac.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

So let's say JBeck is our QB next season, what's the over/under on wins? In your own opinions .

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;801564]So let's say JBeck is our QB next season, what's the over/under on wins? In your own opinions .[/quote]

If Beck becomes a surprise success you're looking at 10-11 wins. If Beck is who we thought he was you're looking at 7-8 wins. Either way I expect this team to improve over the 6 wins of a year ago with a better running game and a much improved defense.

And put it this way they were able to get 5 wins with McNabb playing like Chad Henne.

[quote=Lotus;801562]As you indicate, those teams won't offer huge expensive multiyear deals. But I think both of those teams would not mind paying $$$ for a vet QB as a tutor for a year or two. So it depends on how deals were structured. A deal which they can get out of after a year or two (like the way we signed DMac last year) may be tolerable to both the team and to DMac.[/quote]

After playing us last year I can't understand why either would want McNabb. Especially the Titans. McNabb had all day to throw that game yet still came close to throwing the game with his usual 3rd down ground balls, a forced Int after 7 seconds untouched, and an errant throw in OT that easily could have been an Interception.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I still think we are a 9 win team this year TOPS..

Although, we could always surprise people and pull out a KC year with alot of young ones starting.

I wouldn't be shocked if Moss was gone, and Cook was starting in Rabach spot.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;801568]If Beck becomes a surprise success you're looking at 10-11 wins. If Beck is who we thought he was you're looking at 7-8 wins. Either way I expect this team to improve over the 6 wins of a year ago with a better running game and a much improved defense.

And put it this way they were able to get 5 wins with McNabb playing like Chad Henne.



[B]After playing us last year I can't understand why either would want McNabb. Especially the Titans. McNabb had all day to throw that game yet still came close to throwing the game with his usual 3rd down ground balls, a forced Int after 7 seconds untouched, and an errant throw in OT that easily could have been an Interception.[/B][/quote]

I agree that DMac looked bad last year. But under that reasoning no one will give DMac a job and that seems unlikely. Someone will want him at least for his QB-tutoring brain and will overlook last year as an apparent aberration.