Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Andrew Brandt
Clock ticking, time for mediator to step up and [B]save the game from the lawyers.[/B]
3 minutes ago

NOOOOOOOOOO! LAWYERS WILL SAVE THE NFL!

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

De Smith is a ****tard

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Aaron_Nagler Aaron Nagler
by FO_DougFarrar
Smith gives owners till 5 o'clock to turn over 10 years of audited financials. Is there an App for that?
5 minutes ago

Seriously, if I was an owner I would have several choice words for Smith. I think it's clear he wants to lead the players to de-certification.

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One way or another Judge Doty is going to firce the owners to release all of the financial information. The owners are stalling.

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When the union decertifies, what legal premise for showing the books will the players use? Again, the complete paradigm changes once the union disbands and it is individual players against individual teams.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Adam Schefter
RT @AndrewSiciliano: Mort reporting NFLPA decertifies in federal court in Minneapolis
1 minute ago

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Eff all those greedy bastards...i

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Defensewins;788621]One way or another Judge Doty is going to firce the owners to release all of the financial information. The owners are stalling.[/quote]

Is that common in labor negotiations?

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Well, that fuxxorz free agency......

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

****ing clowns I swear

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I don't see football in 2011 folks

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

The court will not allow a lockout, so football will kick back in, but the legal battles will continue for a couple years probably. The interesting thing will be to see what rules the teams are required to put in place, be it the last CBA extended, or the last proposal the NFL made.

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This is fantastic news...I hope there really is a lockout...I love it!

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Greedy ****ing bastards, millionaires arguing is priceless

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This sickens me. Everyone is a greedy money grubbing @sshat in this business. Try making a real working man's wage.

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After reading the Nfls statement, I can't imagine anyone taking the players side in this.... Maybe the players will revolt against Demaurice smith and designate someone who's not a d-bag to negotiate a deal for them.

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Smith is a tool

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/11/source-free-agency-could-start-at-midnight/]Source: Free agency could start at midnight | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;788635]Smith is a tool[/quote]

I was just gonna say that.
I just watched his pontificating speech and he mad me gag.

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[quote=saden1;788631]This is fantastic news...I hope there really is a lockout...I love it![/quote]

My plan was to come here and say(write) "YEAH". Lol.

I'm not sure exactly what the players want besides the owners to open their books, but from what the NFL's statement was at the end of the day today sounded pretty fair as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure the owners want to make their side sound pretty good so I wonder what their leaving out which is keeping the players union from wanting to agree with the offer?

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^ what a joke man

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The players make enough money to pay for their own insurance through the NFLPA and they make enough money to put 5 or 10% of their earnings towards a retirement fund. I find it a moot point for 4 mill to be set aside just for them when they are negotiating their own contracts anyway.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

There's a leadership problem, in my judgment. You don't see deals done before absolute Armageddon is on the horizon when that's the way that the sides approach collective bargaining. What we've seen here is an issue where the leadership and the strongest elements within the constituency of the players and the constituency of the owners is insisting on toeing a very hard line, and they've sort of painted themselves into a corner. Neither side wants to blink first.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Redskins' Vonnie Holliday: [url=http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6207663]Holliday: Players Want Fair CBA - ESPN Video - ESPN[/url]

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[quote=skinsfaninok;788639]^ what a joke man[/quote]


I find it funny that you want to draft Jake Locker....now that's a real joke.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://nfllabor.com/2011/03/11/exclusive-summary-of-nfl-proposal-to-nflpa/]NFLLabor.com EXCLUSIVE: Summary of NFL proposal to NFLPA «[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

from Albert Breer's twitter:

[IMG]http://c0013679.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_4f74ca3[/IMG]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

and

[IMG]http://c0013679.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_4f74e74[/IMG]

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[quote=saden1;788646]I find it funny that you want to draft Jake Locker....now that's a real joke.[/quote]
We will see in 3 years my man

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It kills me how much fans support the owners. I think both sides are at blame and should have done this sooner rather than later. While the players may have forced this situation in the last hours, the owners wanted to force a lockout for the longest time.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

interesting release from the US Chamber of Commerce:
[url=http://www.uschamber.com/press/releases/2011/march/us-chamber-statement-decision-nfl-players-association-decertify-union]U.S. Chamber Statement on Decision of NFL Players Association to Decertify As a Union | U.S. Chamber of Commerce[/url]

[QUOTE]Release Date: Mar 11, 2011Contact: 888-249-NEWS
U.S. Chamber Statement on Decision of NFL Players Association to Decertify As a Union

WASHINGTON, D.C.—U.S. Chamber of Commerce Senior Vice President of Labor, Immigration, and Employee Benefits, Randel K. Johnson, issued the following statement today on the decision by the NFL Players Association to decertify as a union:

“We are troubled by the decision of the NFL Players to decertify as a union so that they may litigate under the antitrust laws, with the prospect that once the litigation is over they will again claim they are a union. Gaming the labor laws and the antitrust laws offers a potentially disastrous model for labor-management relations in this country and raises serious questions of labor policy.”

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is the world’s largest business federation representing the interests of more than 3 million businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions, as well as state and local chambers and industry associations.

# # #
[/QUOTE]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Ruhskins;788651]It kills me how much fans support the owners. I think both sides are at blame and should have done this sooner rather than later. While the players may have forced this situation in the last hours,[B] the owners wanted to force a lockout for the longest time[/B].[/quote]

And DeMaurice Smith has wanted to de-certify for just as long. I think it's a chicken and egg question, both sides knew it was coming to this, both sides tried to set themselves in the best possible position. But when push came to shove the owners made a bunch of concessions and Smith upped his demands from 5 years to 10.

The players are following Smith's lead, but you listen to them defend the position and its hard to say that they have a good idea of where he is taking them.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Because of all of this chaos going on, with the parties not really knowing how this is going to play out in court, you could end up with a situation where both sides judge their legal position to be stronger than they might actually be. That's the one scenario in which I could see the work stoppage lasting a lot longer past early September.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Ruhskins;788651]It kills me how much fans support the owners. [/quote]

I don't get it either, but I pass it off as them being completely ignorant. The other killer thing is how people want to keep saying "Well, if i went to my boss and asked him to show me his books. I'd be fired!" Of course you would, but that's only because you are expendable and easily replaceable. They on the other hand are not.

Don't relate your employment situation to theirs. There are only 1696 NFL (excluding practice squad) players in the world. THE WORLD!! I imagine I can find that many of (fill in your job title) in a single state, never the less the world.

They are in the NFL for a reason, they are the best of the best and can't be replaced. What they can do cannot be duplicated. You on the other hand can be. You can train any monkey to be a fireman, policeman, teacher, doctor, but you can't do the same to replace a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. They are just like Aerosmith, Kanye West, Jack Nicholas, Tom Cruise, or Lady Gaga. They are unique talents that aren't replaceable at the current moment.

What does that mean? Still don't get it? Let me explain it to you this way. Let's say a person like Pavarotti (i know he's dead) played at the particular Opera house. His talent couldn't be duplicated, and people lined up around the block to get tickets to this hot item. Now Pavarotti and the Opera house owner came to a mutual agreement on compensation, but then after a couple years, the Opera house owner tells Pavarotti that the arrangement doesn't work for him. He claims his profits have declined over the past years even though his income has increase annually. He tells Pavarotti he's going to close the Opera house unless he decides to take less. Now Pavarotti is a fair man so he asks to see the numbers. The Opera house owner declines and says that he needs to trust him. Now think about this. Those people aren't there for the Opera house, they are there for Pavarotti. That whole business has been built off and thrives because of the talent that Pavarotti provides.


Moral: They can ask to see the books because their talent isn't replaceable and has made men BILLIONAIRES (that seemingly want more). You on the other hand cannot because you are a dime a dozen when it comes to the job market. Sorry guys, but that's just the way it is.


Reminder:

1) Owners opted out of this deal, NOT the players.
2) Owners have been positioning themselves for a lockout for years. (trying to exempt themselves from Monopoly rules via Supreme Court, brokering TV contracts with a lockout payment clause)
3) Refuse to show books claiming profit loss over the past years and wants the players to "trust them" on the numbers. (mind you, this profit loss could be from making 300 million one year to 299 million the following.)


You do the math. Big business and greedy corporations are ruining this country. Now, they threaten the status of professional football. The good news is, if the NFL ever folded, you can rest assure there are other investors that would take less to see it operate. After all, rich is rich.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;788656]I don't get it either, but I pass it off as them being completely ignorant. The other killer thing is how people want to keep saying "Well, if i went to my boss and asked him to show me his books. I'd be fired!" Of course you would, but that's only because you are expendable and easily replaceable. They on the other hand are not.

Don't relate your employment situation to theirs. There are only 1696 NFL (excluding practice squad) players in the world. THE WORLD!! I imagine I can find that many of (fill in your job title) in a single state, never the less the world.

They are in the NFL for a reason, they are the best of the best and can't be replaced. What they can do cannot be duplicated. You on the other hand can be. You can train any monkey to be a fireman, policeman, teacher, doctor, but you can't do the same to replace a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. They are just like Aerosmith, Kanye West, Jack Nicholas, Tom Cruise, or Lady Gaga. They are unique talents that aren't replaceable at the current moment.

What does that mean? Still don't get it? Let me explain it to you this way. Let's say a person like Pavarotti (i know he's dead) played at the particular Opera house. His talent couldn't be duplicated, and people lined up around the block to get tickets to this hot item. Now Pavarotti and the Opera house owner came to a mutual agreement on compensation, but then after a couple years, the Opera house owner tells Pavarotti that the arrangement doesn't work for him. He claims his profits have declined over the past years even though his income has increase annually. He tells Pavarotti he's going to close the Opera house unless he decides to take less. Now Pavarotti is a fair man so he asks to see the numbers. The Opera house owner declines and says that he needs to trust him. Now think about this. Those people aren't there for the Opera house, they are there for Pavarotti. That whole business has been built off and thrives because of the talent that Pavarotti provides.


Moral: They can ask to see the books because their talent isn't replaceable and has made men BILLIONAIRES (that seemingly want more). You on the other hand cannot because you are a dime a dozen when it comes to the job market. Sorry guys, but that's just the way it is.


Reminder:

1) Owners opted out of this deal, NOT the players.
2) Owners have been positioning themselves for a lockout for years. (trying to exempt themselves from Monopoly rules via Supreme Court, brokering TV contracts with a lockout payment clause)
3) Refuse to show books claiming profit loss over the past years and wants the players to "trust them" on the numbers. (mind you, this profit loss could be from making 300 million one year to 299 million the following.)


You do the math. Big business and greedy corporations are ruining this country. Now, they threaten the status of professional football. The good news is, if the NFL ever folded, you can rest assure there are other investors that would take less to see it operate. After all, rich is rich.[/QUOTE]
Ya know, your first statement really ticked me off. I don't consider myself ignorant, nor a blind owner follower (any more than a player supporter is a blind player supporter). Again the issues have been gone over and over, but to say a fan who supports the owners is ignorant is a highly ignorant position from you.

These players make hundreds of millions more than those that first decertified and made valiant strides to get fair deals for all involved. These nflpa personnel, and particularly the non player demaurice smith, are a bunch of arrogant sob's who think that they are partners in a business when they are not, it is just not their legal position whether there are 1700 or 17000 members in their union. I make no comparisons to my position or job, these men have 4 BILLION dollars to partition among themselves for their health, livelihood, and fair compensation for being the best of the best and they don't see that as reasonable. I call bs. Not because I am ignorant nor because the owners have been "good faith actors", but because the players association has been full of b.s. since smith started spewing his lies and leading good players and good men astray like lost sheep.

(Ps nc skins I refrained from saying a particular statement towards you for your comment about people who disagree with your point of view towards corporations, but really f that opening statement.)

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

You go to your Companies owner and ask for half of the profits, see what they say. That's business folks owners should have more money and control than their employees

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

I hope the owners come out on top, just cause I think it'd be funny if the consistency of owners ruling the nfl happened.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Name me a company where the the employees get more than a 50% of the companies profit? not many.

All of this is a joke to me, millionaires suing billionaires. I see where Manning, Brady and Brees are suing the NFL. Shouldn't the players that should be suing the ones who dont get the big contracts. Cry me a River NFL players. How about you save your money and have a good investment plan. I am sick of hearing that you players but your body on the line and take all the risk. We have members of the U.S. military that put there life on the lines and put there bodies on the line.

The NFL minimum in 2010 was 355,000. Most people would love to make that much in 7 years let alone 1 year as a bench warmer.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Based on what is being reported the fallout from today should be blamed on the Union. Plain and simple. I had come to back them in a general sense in this situation but when John Mara, who is pretty even keeled guy, comes out and says he was convinced they never took negotiating seriously then I lose a lot of respect from De Smith and the leaders of their union. Shame on them for this. I hope they get skewered in the courts. I don't much care who makes all the money so now I really hope the players take it in the shorts for a while until they realize they were led to slaughter by their lawyer leaders.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Dear HOG1,

When I wrote to you last on behalf of the NFL, we promised you that we would work tirelessly to find a collectively bargained solution to our differences with the players' union. Subsequent to that letter to you, we agreed that the fastest way to a fair agreement was for everyone to work together through a mediation process. For the last three weeks I have personally attended every session of mediation, which is a process our clubs sincerely believe in.

Unfortunately, I have to tell you that earlier today the players' union walked away from mediation and collective bargaining and has initiated litigation against the clubs. In an effort to get a fair agreement now, our clubs offered a deal today that was, among other things, designed to have no adverse financial impact on veteran players in the early years, and would have met the players’ financial demands in the latter years of the agreement.

The proposal we made included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee a reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years).

It was a deal that offered compromise, and would have ensured the well-being of our players and guaranteed the long-term future for the fans of the great game we all love so much. It was a deal where everyone would prosper.

We remain committed to collective bargaining and the federal mediation process until an agreement is reached, and call on the union to return to negotiations immediately. NFL players, clubs, and fans want an agreement. The only place it can be reached is at the bargaining table.

While we are disappointed with the union's actions, we remain steadfastly committed to reaching an agreement that serves the best interest of NFL players, clubs and fans, and thank you for your continued support of our League. First and foremost it is your passion for the game that drives us all, and we will not lose sight of this as we continue to work for a deal that works for everyone.



Yours, Truly HOG1
Roger Goodell

****The Rog took time out of a busy schedule to send me a personal note...he's thoughtful like that.