Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=punch it in;972108]No its squawk and im very passionate about this particular thread because i have been affected personally by a murderer. So again im sorry for my rants but i just dont get the fact that their seems to be a gray area here. The man killed - he is a killer, and other than - "this scumbag took a life and hurt alot of people (including his teammates" - imo there is nothing else to say about it! It is no different than any other murder!
Im done.[/quote]

I think that you and everyone involved being angry about the personal experiences that you described is natural and a given but by you grouping senseless or unthinkable killings together trivializes your own experiences with it - because I think that each person needs to take their own situation as uniquely their own - that way you can honor it. I don't think there's a gray area with belchers act, but it is unique to those affected by it. Saying one murder is like any other murder dishonors anyone affected that ever had to experience something like this.

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;972121]I think that you and everyone involved being angry about the personal experiences that you described is natural and a given but by you grouping senseless or unthinkable killings together trivializes your own experiences with it - because I think that each person needs to take their own situation as uniquely their own - that way you can honor it. I don't think there's a gray area with belchers act, but it is unique to those affected by it. Saying one murder is like any other murder dishonors anyone affected that ever had to experience something like this.[/QUOTE]

I meant the act of murder - is the same. Of course if my brother was murdered trying to buy drugs, it is different than if my brother was shot senselessly while playing with his daughter at a playground. In the first example he was somewhere he shouldnt have been, and the second is strait up tragic. I hear you. The guy that pulled the trigger in each example is just as wrong - taking a life is taking a life. That is all i meant.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=punch it in;972123]I meant the act of murder - is the same. Of course if my brother was murdered trying to buy drugs, it is different than if my brother was shot senselessly while playing with his daughter at a playground. In the first example he was somewhere he shouldnt have been, and the second is strait up tragic. I hear you. The guy that pulled the trigger in each example is just as wrong - taking a life is taking a life. That is all i meant.[/quote]

What I'm trying to say is - what the friends and family members of jovan belcher say or do in response to what he did is in no way related to what you or your friends and family experienced. If they speak kindly about javon belcher or remember him in a different light- this is in no way related to the psychopath that you described in your own experiences. They aren't speaking about or for all killers. They are just remembering someone they knew.

[QUOTE=warriorzpath;972125]What I'm trying to say is - what the friends and family members of jovan belcher say or do in response to what he did is in no way related to what you or your friends and family experienced. If they speak kindly about javon belcher or remember him in a different light- this is in no way related to the psychopath that you described in your own experiences. They aren't speaking about or for all killers. They are just remembering someone they knew.[/QUOTE]

I clearly said that it must be hard for all of them to do that. I do not ever want to get a phone call that a friend or familymember of mine has done something like this. Also in no way am i insinuating that you just forget about how he was a good person at one point or throw away the memories you have of the good times. I can tell you that - and i believe i said this - that if it were my brother i would in no way be making a tribute to him - ala the shirt hanging in the locker. There is a big difference between a tribute and talking about the person you once knew as a good person before he committed such a terrible act. That is natural and understood. There would be no easy way to ever say " my brother is a murderer" or live with that fact. But i would have to do so.
Edit: you are rite - what i went through is different - we were the victims of a senseless act - i have much in common with the girlfriends friends and family. We both lost a beloved friend to a senseless act. If it were you i find it hard to believe you would be so understanding about the "renemberance and "honoring" of the person that took your friends life.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=warriorzpath;972125]What I'm trying to say is - what the friends and family members of jovan belcher say or do in response to what he did is in no way related to what you or your friends and family experienced. If they speak kindly about javon belcher or remember him in a different light- this is in no way related to the psychopath that you described in your own experiences. They aren't speaking about or for all killers. They are just remembering someone they knew.[/quote]

I agree.

Belcher is a killer in technical sense of the word, but like I said way earlier in this thread, rational people don't just go off and shoot people. Belcher obviously had issues of some sort.

Before he was a "killer" he was someone's son, a little girl's father, a teammate and a friend. There's nothing wrong with people remembering him as that and that only. Only WE know Belcher as a cold-blooded killer.

While his acts were detestable, because he took an innocent soul from this world, that doesn't mean he was a horrible man or father. From all accounts he was an otherwise decent (that doesn't mean he didn't F up) guy.

Sometimes otherwise normal people do horrible things. The only person who may have known what was wrong is dead and the only person who REALLY knew what was going on is also dead.

I hope everyone involved eventually finds peace from such a horrible incident.

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;972132]I agree.

Belcher is a killer in technical sense of the word, but like I said way earlier in this thread, rational people don't just go off and shoot people. Belcher obviously had issues of some sort.

Before he was a "killer" he was someone's son, a little girl's father, a teammate and a friend. There's nothing wrong with people remembering him as that and that only. Only WE know Belcher as a cold-blooded killer.

While his acts were detestable, because he took an innocent soul from this world, that doesn't mean he was a horrible man or father. From all accounts he was an otherwise decent (that doesn't mean he didn't F up) guy.

Sometimes otherwise normal people do horrible things. The only person who may have known what was wrong is dead and the only person who REALLY knew what was going on is also dead.

I hope everyone involved eventually finds peace from such a horrible incident.[/QUOTE]

Actually Rave if you kill someone you are a horrible person. If you rape someone you are a horrible person. If you beat someone to s bloody pulp you are a horrible person. If those things dont make you horrible what does? Doesnt mean Belchers friends should not remember the "good " Belcher - but ill ask you the same thing i asked Warriorz- if someone killed your sister/best friend - would you be ok with that person being memorialized or honored?

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=punch it in;972134]Actually Rave if you kill someone you are a horrible person. If you rape someone you are a horrible person. If you beat someone to s bloody pulp you are a horrible person. If those things dont make you horrible what does? Doesnt mean Belchers friends should not remember the "good " Belcher - but ill ask you the same thing i asked Warriorz- if someone killed your sister/best friend - would you be ok with that person being memorialized or honored?[/quote]

As someone who HAS been raped and who HAS had people taken from me, yeah, I can understand because people have lives beyond said incidents. Intent means a lot in regards to what people do. People rape and regret it. People kill and regret it. Then there are those who have no remorse for their actions. Those that don't have remorse, ARE the horrible people.

Oddly enough, sometimes people make terrible decisions and act irrationally without thought.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

But, punch_it_in- I understand why you would be so mad about what you experienced - cause from just reading what you described, I feel angry at the killer and sadden for everyone affected by it.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;972139]Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.[/quote]did he accidentally shoot her?

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=SmootSmack;972060]I don't know, doubt anyone here does either, what Belcher's mental state was. And I especially know that I'm in no position to understand how his teammates are coping or how they should feel[/quote]

Quoted for post strength.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=los panda;972142]did he accidentally shoot her?[/quote]

Only he knows that.

It wasn't like there was a struggle with the gun, but I'm assuming because he killed himself afterward, he probably realized he F'ed up big time.

Premeditation means a lot in cases like this.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;972139]Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to forgive those who make poor choices. If you lived a good life before and after the incident, I can chalk it up to some godless behavior and in time, forgive.

I think to make a sweeping generalization that Belcher is now a horrible person is kind of narrow. I've never done anything criminal in my life, but if I go out and hit and kill someone with my car, I don't think that makes me killer.

If I go out decide to mow down people with my car... Then I'll say I'm a bad person.[/quote]

But see that's my point in all of this- whoever knew belcher and was affected by his act has a right to say or do anything in response to it (breaking laws and all of that excluded). But you have to respect it - good or bad. If you are an outsider you have no right to judge anyone's words or actions that were affected. Sort of calling the kettle black at this point - but Tom Jackson was wrong to say anything about what his team members were saying or doing.

Re: KC Chiefs' Player Commits Murder-Suicide
 

[quote=warriorzpath;972148]But see that's my point in all of this- whoever knew belcher and was affected by his act has a right to say or do anything in response to it (breaking laws and all of that excluded). But you have to respect it - good or bad. If you are an outsider you have no right to judge anyone's words or actions that were affected. Sort of calling the kettle black at this point - but Tom Jackson was wrong to say anything about what his team members were saying or doing.[/quote]

I agree with you. :)

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;972135]As someone who HAS been raped and who HAS had people taken from me, yeah, I can understand because people have lives beyond said incidents. Intent means a lot in regards to what people do. People rape and regret it. People kill and regret it. Then there are those who have no remorse for their actions. Those that don't have remorse, ARE the horrible people.

Oddly enough, sometimes people make terrible decisions and act irrationally without thought.[/QUOTE]

Well first of all i am sorry you had such an awful thing happen to you. I dont really know you but i love u and think you come across as an awesome person. Much love.
As for the rapist To do it and than regret it. In my mind - too late. Too ****ing late.