Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

It's not coaches, it personnel that wins in this league. I don't see anyone getting more out of our defensive personnel than Greg Williams did. Blache will come close. I don't see
any value added in Spaggs. At this point I prefer another offensive mind. I'll take Fossil and get on with it already.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417643]Fair point I suppose. But what about those who have had coaching chances and suceeded with their second head coaching opportunity? And if people were so adamant about giving Williams the head coaching job, why isn't he considered a "retread"[/QUOTE]

Fair point also. I guess people like Williams since he proved himself with us and his aggressive personality, Fassel's personality is more like Norv, just bland. Belichick was a great DC, same goes for Williams and Spags is starting to show promise, Fassel was a good OC but I wouldn't put him in the class of great. We need someone with fire in their belly.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417630]"Recycled" coaches have had some pretty good success (as I and other have noted earlier) their second time around.

As for the Super Bowl knock, when is the last time we were even in the Super Bowl?

People want to talk about getting crushed by the Ravens but what about what they did to get there? They hammered Daunte Culpepper, Cris Carter, Randy Moss and the rest of the high powered Vikings to the tune of 41-0 in the NFC Championship game.

As for what he's done as a QB coach,

([URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2003-09-20-oconnor_x.htm"]Phil Simms[/URL]): "The things I learned from Jim Fassel late in my career, if I could've known those things in college, I would've been setting records. As far as fundamentally teaching me how to play the position physically, Jim is the best I've ever been around. I took everything he taught me and used it."

([URL="http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.jsp?release_id=1260"]John Elway[/URL])"I thought I was a pretty good quarterback when I got to Stanford. As things turned out, I had a lot to learn. Thankfully, Jim Fassel was there to teach me the techniques that got me to the NFL and carried me through 16 seasons. Little did I know that nearly 15 years later, we’d be reunited with the Broncos."

Fassel was the OC of the Broncos in 1993 where they had the 3rd ranked offense and John Elway threw for over 4,000 yards with 25 TDs and 10 INTs. The only time the HOF'er threw for more than 4,000 yards in a season in his career

His first year as head coach of the Giants he won a division title with Danny Kannel as his QB. Danny Kannel![/quote]

Yeah, recycled coaches have done wonders for us haven't they? Gibbs has been the only one with any modicum of success, and he just happened to be a Hall of Famer. As for Simms and Elway, they would've been darn good even if I had coached them. As for Danny Kannel and the boys, some teams just get by with smoke and mirrors sometimes, especially in the free agent era.

List of failed recycled coaches over the last 10 few years (note: these guys didn't even sniff the playoffs in their second go round):

Dennis Green
George Seifert
Steve Mariucci (have no earthly idea why we are considering this bum)
Mike Ditka
Dennis Erickson
Dom Capers
Bruce Coslett

P.S. Jim Fassel is pretty much of the same caliber as these guys listed, which is why he'd be a disastrous choice for a franchise looking to build on some recent, rare momentum.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417652]

List of failed recycled coaches over the last 10 few years (note: these guys didn't even sniff the playoffs in their second go round):

Dennis Green
George Seifert
Steve Mariucci (have no earthly idea why we are considering this bum)
Mike Ditka
Dennis Erickson
Dom Capers
Bruce Coslett

P.S. Jim Fassel is pretty much of the same caliber as these guys.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Marty, Chris Palmer.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417652]Yeah, recycled coaches have done wonders for us haven't they? Gibbs has been the only one with any modicum of success, and he just happened to be a Hall of Famer. As for Simms and Elway, they would've been darn good even if I had coached them. As for Danny Kannel and the boys, some teams just get by with smoke and mirrors sometimes, especially in the free agent era.

List of failed recycled coaches over the last 10 few years (note: these guys didn't even sniff the playoffs in their second go round):

Dennis Green
George Seifert
Steve Mariucci (have no earthly idea why we are considering this bum)
Mike Ditka
Dennis Erickson
Dom Capers
Bruce Coslett

P.S. Jim Fassel is pretty much of the same caliber as these guys listed, which is why he'd be a disastrous choice for a franchise looking to build on some recent rare momentum.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I think we can agree that plenty of retread coaches have been very successful, and others not so much.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Spag is a good DC but he had a ferocious D-line this season to help him out, he will be a good HC in the future but I dont think he is ready just yet.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ChillWill;417644] At this point I prefer another offensive mind. I'll take Fossil and get on with it already.[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with a defensive minded coach? Del Rio, Crennel, Dungy, Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Lovie Smith, Wade Phillips (I'll throw him in) are no slouches.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417655]Fair enough. I think we can agree that plenty of retread coaches have been very successful, and others not so much.[/quote]

Name me the coaches who have been overwhelmingly successful besides the two coaches we saw last night as well as Tony Dungy? None really jump out at me in recent years.

P.S. Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

dungy wasnt the coach and he couldnt get to the SB with the same players

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;417659]What's wrong with a defensive minded coach? Del Rio, Crennel, Dungy, Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Lovie Smith, Wade Phillips (I'll throw him in) are no slouches.[/QUOTE]

I think because of Blache. If not, then sure Meeks or Spags would be a good choice. But then you'd have a rookie HC and a rookie OC (Zorn)

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417668]I think because of Blache. If not, then sure Meeks or Spags would be a good choice. But then you'd have a rookie HC and a rookie OC (Zorn)[/QUOTE]

I don't think Blache would mind, wasn't he about to retire? I would rather have a hungry rookie HC and OC than Fassel as HC.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417660]Name me the coaches who have been overwhelmingly successful besides the two coaches we saw last night as well as Tony Dungy? None really jump out at me in recent years.

P.S. Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team[/QUOTE]

How about Mike Shanahan, Norv Turner did ok this year (though I still maintain they won in spite of him), Wade Phillips' Cowboys were 13-3 this year (regardless of whether you think it was all because of Jason Garrett, doesn't take away from the fact that Phillips was the coach)

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417679]How about Mike Shanahan, Norv Turner did ok this year (though I still maintain they won in spite of him), Wade Phillips' Cowboys were 13-3 this year (regardless of whether you think it was all because of Jason Garrett, doesn't take away from the fact that Phillips was the coach)[/quote]

Shanahan is not a recent retread, heck the last Super Bowl he won with Denver was almost ten years ago. As for Norval, he inherited a wealth of talent in SD, and Wade couldn't get the Cowgirls to their first playoff win in over 12 years despite having home-field advantage.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417683]As for Norval, he inherited a wealth of talent in SD, and Wade couldn't get the Cowgirls to their first playoff win in over 12 years despite home-field advantage.[/QUOTE]

Give Norval credit he took them further than my favorite retread (Marty) and Wade with the talent on that team.... Same as it ever was.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Fine. We're just going to go in circles about this. I think of the four known choices remaining Fassel is the best fit for this team and I think there are enough examples in recent (last two) years, coupled with Fassel's experience and succcess, that say Fassel can do very well as our head coach.

But I understand that he's the anti-flavor of the month