Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

The problem with the Griffin vs. Cousins debate is that most people have to be so extreme in one direction or another. Me personally, regardless of what I felt Robert's potential could have been post-2013, I have let it go and am willing to move forward with Kirk as long as he is signed to a reasonable amount and he isn't paid like a Top QB. My fear right now is that because the market for QB's is so starved we will either have to overpay him or see him starting for someone else next year.

Griffin wasn't bad in 2013. I am not sure why people keep saying he was. He was a typical 2nd year QB that the league adjusted to, not to mention he was playing with a brace on his knee to protect an injury that likely wasn't healed so you can even argue he should have never been on the field until mid-season to begin with. His passing stats however weren't bad. There is no doubt in my mind that when his knee got wrecked it did more to him than take away his ability to run and escape pressure. You talk to any player who has had to have reconstructive surgery and they will tell you it takes pretty much a season of playing on the repaired body part to strengthen it again and build your confidence mentally that you can once again fully use it.

Fast forward to 2014 and it seemed from the outside that Gruden was brought in to help develop Griffin but pretty much early on gave up on that idea for whatever reason and was looking to move on from Griffin asap. So do I think Griffin got a bit rail-roaded? Sure. I don't think it was personal though. I think it was a football decision as Gruden runs a WCO and felt that Griffin was not the best QB on the roster to run it.

Now, that's a completely different issue as to whether once Kirk was named the starter, if he went out and earned the right to stay the starter which IMO, he has and should be starting for us at least for the next couple of seasons. He has earned that right regardless and despite however you feel about the Griffin situation.

It's not really a Kirk vs. Griffin situation, it's a clown car organization issue that until very recently, never seemed to handle anything correctly.

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1133038]Lol, yeah because that what I wrote right?[/QUOTE]


Yeah that's exactly what you wrote. Stand by your post. You said that Griffs situation is like Marcus Allens and that its personal. Completely insinuating that Cousins has not outplayed Griff on the field and earned the job. How the hell else can that be interpreted? You also said that u think KC is rite below Fitz. If u think the guy is a better qb than obviously you think he should start if he were on the team. If Brady or Cam or several other qb's were on our team that i think are better than Cousins than your damn straight they should start. Fitz isnt even remotely in that argument imo.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1133047]Yeah that's exactly what you wrote. Stand by your post. You said that Griffs situation is like Marcus Allens and that its personal. Completely insinuating that Cousins has not outplayed Griff on the field and earned the job. How the hell else can that be interpreted? You also said that u think KC is rite below Fitz. If u think the guy is a better qb than obviously you think he should start if he were on the team. If Brady or Cam or several other qb's were on our team that i think are better than Cousins than your damn straight they should start. Fitz isn't even remotely in that argument imo.[/quote]Lol, from this post it appears you struggle with what the words 'exactly' and 'insinuate' mean. But, you don't need me to spin yourself in circles. By all means continue. It amuses me.

Btw, after you get done chasing your tail maybe you could post Fitz vs Kirk this year? Or not, either way makes no difference to me.

Cheers!

Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1133049]Lol, from this post it appears you struggle with what the words 'exactly' and 'insinuate' mean. But, you don't need me to spin yourself in circles. By all means continue. It amuses me.



Btw, after you get done chasing your tail maybe you could post Fitz vs Kirk this year? Or not, either way makes no difference to me.



Cheers![/QUOTE]


I dont give a hell about their numbers. Ill just strait up tell you that if they were both on the redskins rite now that KC would be the starter if it were up to me. And you can split hairs about my word choice or my supposed lack of understanding the two words. Dont care. What you said and than didnt say is all there in black and white. And what you exactly insinuated is that Fitz would be starting for us, and Griff is not starting because Jay does not like him even though he is the superior qb based on performance ability and blah blah blah.
I simply disagreed. Than you tried to back track and act as if u did not say such things. Again....stand by your posts, no matter how silly they are.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1133041]Are you seriously, with a straight face going to compare the two situations?[/quote]Yes.

Obviously, very few situations are exactly alike but for me their situations have common elements.
If you're really interested in what I think those common elements are feel free to PM. But is this thread really the place for that?

[quote]Also. you keep mentioning Griffin's superior skill set. And he is probably better than KC in a combine setting. But when it actually comes down to dropping back with an actual pass rush, that's where KC is and has always been better.[/quote]We don't need to re-hash this. It seems many like to pretend that Griffin's [I][U]rookie[/U][/I] year didn't actually happen....but it did. And his superior talent, potential and production were on display.

Now do you want to quibble over old stuff where we disagree or acknowledge common ground where we agree that Kirk is better in this offense with Jay?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=punch it in;1133051]I dont give a hell about their numbers.[/quote]Lol, obviously. And 'not giving a hell about their numbers' is convenient place to stand.

[quote]Ill just strait up tell you that if they were both on the redskins rite now that KC would be the starter if it were up to me.[/quote]Um should I get you some cookies?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1133056]Lol, obviously. And 'not giving a hell about their numbers' is convenient place to stand.



Um should I get you some cookies?[/QUOTE]



Cousins has thrown for more yards snd has the better qbr. Its not convenience. Its that I dont need to look at their numbers to know who the better qb is, nor do I put too much stock into stats.
As for the cookies. No. If anybody else offered me cookies I would say No thank you. But when u offer me cookies it just creeps me out for some reason.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TvG6IQC.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=30gut;1133049]Lol, from this post it appears you struggle with what the words 'exactly' and 'insinuate' mean. But, you don't need me to spin yourself in circles. By all means continue. It amuses me.

Btw, after you get done chasing your tail maybe you could post Fitz vs Kirk this year? Or not, either way makes no difference to me.

Cheers![/quote]

Kirk edges Fitz in DYAR and DVOA:

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015[/url]

And passer rating:

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&qualified=true]NFL Stats: by Player Position[/url]

With a rushing attack that is 28th in yards per carry:

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt]2015 NFL Team Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/url]

But really, what do you think about not drafting a QB this year?

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

I am not hating on anybody! Let me clear the air on my post..I would have LOVED IT if RGIII would have continued his fantastic play after his rookie season..however something drastic happened and anybody that knows anything about football witnessed his tremendous fall..I believe it was a combination of many things ..INJURIES,COACHING,His college background not preparing him to be a pocket passer, HIS ATTITUDE..the system..the opposing NFL defense catching up to his game..etc etc..anyways We gave up a ton to draft him and things were looking very bleak..luckily somebody had enough foresight to draft another QB later in that draft ..Kirk came here in the RGIII shadow and did what he was told..he supported RGIII . Now that he has his chance You darn skippy I am on board and pulling for him just like i did RGIII ! he is the best option we have this year and next unless we are willing to trade away the future again for another vet QB to come in here (Brees etc..) would i trade cousins for Brees..uh YES ..but who is gonna do that? I think Cousins right now is the best QB we have available to play for the Redskins ..that is who he is! nothing more nothing less. To the Cousins doubters I have question for you..IF he leaves after this season WHO WILL THE QB BE NEXT YEAR? and how much will we give up to get that QB? here is another question..Between RGIII and Cousins which one do you believe will have the longest and most productive career regardless of the team they play for.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1133068]Kirk edges Fitz in DYAR and DVOA:



[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015[/url]



And passer rating:



[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2015&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&qualified=true]NFL Stats: by Player Position[/url]



With a rushing attack that is 28th in yards per carry:



[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsPerRushAttempt]2015 NFL Team Rushing Stats - National Football League - ESPN[/url]



But really, what do you think about not drafting a QB this year?[/QUOTE]


Shhhh. Dont tell 30 gut or he wont offer you cookies.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

[quote=dyoungjelly;1133068]kirk edges fitz in dyar and dvoa:

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]football outsiders: Innovative statistics, intelligent analysis | quarterbacks 2015[/url]

and passer rating:

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabseq=1&season=2015&seasontype=reg&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticpositioncategory=quarterback&d-447263-s=passing_passer_rating&qualified=true]nfl stats: By player position[/url]

with a rushing attack that is 28th in yards per carry:

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/sort/yardsperrushattempt]2015 nfl team rushing stats - national football league - espn[/url]

[b]but really, what do you think about not drafting a qb this year?[/b][/quote]

That was PERFECT!

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Santana Moss' point of view regarding both KC and RGIII

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/12/18/santana-moss-rgiii-needs-a-second-chance-somewhere-else/[/url]

on KC
[QUOTE]
DC Sports Bog
Santana Moss: RGIII needs a second chance somewhere else

Moss also discussed Cousins, including the occasional comparisons to Chad Pennington, another quarterback Moss played with. The receiver said Cousins’s arm might be stronger than Pennington’s, but that Pennington accomplished too much to be compared with a first-year starter.

“But Kirk can be that guy. Kirk can be great,” Moss said. “And like I said years before, I see so much potential in those guys, and it just was sad that those guys both was young and had to be under each other. You can’t learn from nobody. It’s hard to just sit there.”

Moss also he thought Cousins sometimes tried to do too much early in his career to live up to Griffin’s example.

“I could be wrong…but at times [it seemed like] Kirk would say ‘I’m gonna muscle this ball in there because Robert muscled that in there.’ And Robert has that arm, and you’d [think] no, that ain’t Kirk’s style, don’t throw that Kirk. And we would say that in practice to each other. We never said that to him, but we knew the pressure. Kirk was trying to be on that field, so he was going to do things — I’m going to take a chance, even though I know my arm might not be as strong as his, I’m going to take a chance. But if you watch him play his game, he’s the best at playing his game.”[/QUOTE]

on RGIII
[QUOTE]“Griffin can be a quarterback in this league,” Moss said. “Honestly. I think he’s due a second chance somewhere. I can’t sit here and tell you if it’s here, because I feel like sometimes you need to get away. You need to leave [a place] where it just seems like it’s done. But I think he needs a second chance, and I just think he’s got to get in an offense like the first year, and be able to do special things.[/QUOTE]

pretty interesting piece that should give everybody a slightly different perspective

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

Santana weighs in with more common sense than any writer or talking head who has covered the saga.

I don't think Griffin will be a starting NFL QB for a variety of reasons but he's right, he has to get out of DC and try.

Re: Who is Kirk Cousins?
 

People still hanging on RGIII's nuts amaze me. He was a hazard to himself, it was quite obvious after that Detroit preseason game that he just wasn't making the transition to being a drop back passer and he was holding back the entire franchise. Making the move to Kirk and showing that draft status was no longer going to mean anything around here was a huge move, both on the field and in the locker room.