Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037354]So unless they put up with racial slurs (if you feel Redskins to be one is another story), they cannot capitalize on gambling like white americans do?[/quote]

but im offended by gambling

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037344]I do not think the logo is what this group finds offensive. I know the colors have nothing to do with it either. Imagine as a white person or a black person or an asian person....a team with a face from your origin....George Washington looking dude or MLK as the emblem - no problem. The nickname however is the "honkeys" or the "n&@ers"? - problem. Obviously those slang references are alot more volatile because of modern day society and racism for the most part has drawn away from the native americans and what happened to them hundreds of years ago. This particular group and handfuls of others consider redskins a slang term. [B]Again - what if it was the palefaces or yellowskins or darkskins? I guess the real crux of the matter is how do you feel about those names? If they offend you as a white, black, or asian person than How do you justify Redskins?[/B][/quote]

Perhaps your example names are different and not as "offensive" as the name Redskins, but if there were a team with the name "Palefaces" or "Yellowskins", I wouldn't give a rat's a**. It wouldn't offend me in the least.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037354]So unless they put up with racial slurs (if you feel Redskins to be one is another story), they cannot capitalize on gambling like white americans do?[/quote]

Are you assuming I'm not offended also by white Americans owning casinos? If so, that's a pretty racist and ridiculous thing to say.

I'm saying I think it's a contradiction to championing this Redskins thing - which is questionable at best all the while continuing to make fortunes from those with gambling addictions.

[QUOTE=SirLK26;1037362]Perhaps your example names are different and not as "offensive" as the name Redskins, but if there were a team with the name "Palefaces" or "Yellowskins", I wouldn't give a rat's a**. It wouldn't offend me in the least.[/QUOTE]

Im just putting it out there - not saying im offended either. An asian person might be offended by a team called the yellowskins with a picture of an asian person on the helmet was my point. As for palefaces, well i just wanted to say palefaces.

[QUOTE=skinsguy;1037368]Are you assuming I'm not offended also by white Americans owning casinos? If so, that's a pretty racist and ridiculous thing to say.

I'm saying I think it's a contradiction to championing this Redskins thing - which is questionable at best all the while continuing to make fortunes from those with gambling addictions.[/QUOTE]

Not assuming that at all but you did clearly state that "they" should shutdown "their" casinos. If you are making the point that there are greater problems in the world well than me and you are on the exact same page. Did not mean to insinuate anything.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Didn't someone say Redskins wasn't about Indians actual skin color, but the red war paint they used? I dunno. I just don't see Redskins as derogatory and I'm a minority.

Although... I did find Redskin in the racial slur database... :Smoker:

[url=http://www.rsdb.org/slur/redskin]The Racial Slur Database[/url]

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;1037374]Didn't someone say Redskins wasn't about Indians actual skin color, but the red war paint they used? I dunno. I just don't see Redskins as derogatory and I'm a minority.

Although... I did find Redskin in the racial slur database... :Smoker:

[url=http://www.rsdb.org/slur/redskin]The Racial Slur Database[/url][/QUOTE]

It is definitely about skin color.....

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

“There are so many more issues that are important for the tribe than to waste time on what a team is called. We’re worried about real things, and I don’t consider that a real thing.”

G. Anne Richardson

Chief of Virginia’s Rappahannock Tribe
This sort of realistic and rational thought has no place in a PC discussion whipped up by the ACLU.........

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Hog1;1037387]“There are so many more issues that are important for the tribe than to waste time on what a team is called. We’re worried about real things, and I don’t consider that a real thing.”

G. Anne Richardson

Chief of Virginia’s Rappahannock Tribe
This sort of realistic and rational thought has no place in a PC discussion whipped up by the ACLU.........[/quote]

I would kinda take it more seriously if it was more than just the Oneida tribe complaining but it seems the vast majority of other tribes seem to have bigger fish to fry.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037372]Not assuming that at all but you did clearly state that "they" should shutdown "their" casinos. If you are making the point that there are greater problems in the world well than me and you are on the exact same page. Did not mean to insinuate anything.[/quote]

I said that (the shutting the casinos thing) in jest. If we're talking about shutting out and shutting down anything and everything that can be offensive then then this tribe should take a long hard look at themselves. It is proven fact that gambling has ruined families and cost lives. It's not a proven fact that the term Redskin is a racial slur. Some believe it is and some believe it is not. It's origin does not point to the use in a derogatory manner and there is documentation To back that up. When the Native. Americans themselves are not in agreement about it being a racial slur then I call BS on the whole thing. It is all a money grab by the Oneita Tribe and you guys will discover this when it's all said and done.

[QUOTE=skinsguy;1037391]I said that (the shutting the casinos thing) in jest. If we're talking about shutting out and shutting down anything and everything that can be offensive then then this tribe should take a long hard look at themselves. It is proven fact that gambling has ruined families and cost lives. It's not a proven fact that the term Redskin is a racial slur. Some believe it is and some believe it is not. It's origin does not point to the use in a derogatory manner and there is documentation To back that up. When the Native. Americans themselves are not in agreement about it being a racial slur then I call BS on the whole thing. It is all a money grab by the Oneita Tribe and you guys will discover this when it's all said and done.[/QUOTE]

Just for the record i was posing a question. I personally am not in favor of a name change. A: because its my team. B: because its a non issue imo.
That all being said if you do some research on the name it really does have racist roots. So I am just pondering the validity of any real concerns anybody ( native am. Or not) might have about it.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037397]Just for the record i was posing a question. I personally am not in favor of a name change. A: because its my team. B: because its a non issue imo.
That all being said if you do some research on the name it really does have racist roots. So I am just pondering the validity of any real concerns anybody ( native am. Or not) might have about it.[/quote]

I have done research on the name and no it doesn't have racist roots. That doesn't mean that somewhere along the way someone decided that it could be used in a derogatory manner but to say its roots or origin is born out of racism is severely incorrect.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037371]Im just putting it out there - not saying im offended either. An asian person might be offended by a team called the yellowskins with a picture of an asian person on the helmet was my point. As for palefaces, well i just wanted to say palefaces.[/quote]

I wish people would stop trying to find equivalents, because there are none:

1) Yellowskins is not a word that Asians created to describe themselves
2) There are exactly zero High Schools with a significant Asian enrollment that call themselves the Yellowskins. There are zero High Schools, period.
3) A professional sports team called the Yellowskins would not have an Asian face as a logo that was provided to the team by prominent members of the Asian American community.
4) a team called the Yellowskins would not have survived 80 plus years to become one of the most valuable sports franchises in the world.
5) a significant number of Asian Americans would NOT defend the use of the name.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=skinsguy;1037416]I have done research on the name and no it doesn't have racist roots. That doesn't mean that somewhere along the way someone decided that it could be used in a derogatory manner but to say its roots or origin is born out of racism is severely incorrect.[/quote]

Exactly. You could offend an American Indian by calling them Red Devil, so should the NJ hockey team be forced to change their name? You can offend an Asian by calling them Mellow Yellow. Should the soft drink be banned? You can call an African American woman Aunt Jemima, a white guy Wonder Bread, etc. etc. Just because a word can be used in an offensive manner doesn't mean it's a racial slur in any and all contexts.

As a first generation American who's family came from Peru, I'm offended when all Hispanics are called Mexican, but I don't find the word Mexican offensive when used to describe people actually from Mexico.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=saden1;1037323]I have changed my view on this whole name change thing from being against it to being for it. If native Americans find the name offensive who am I to tell them they shouldn't be offended?

The name needs to change, it will change. I am hopeful the logo and colors stay the same.[/quote]

What if some did and some didn't? There are high schools across the country with significant Native American enrollment fighting tooth and nail to keep the name Redskin. What other so called racial slur would be defended like this by the people who are supposed to be offended?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=ram29jackson;1037232]they had meeting and Goodell wasn't even there. And Oneida wants to meet with other owners on SB week. Like that's going to do anything ? and they gave a 30 page pseudo science study paper that says the name is harmful to Indians psychies LOL


and the want Goodell to visit Oneida tribe areas...right ? like they wont be all scripted how to act when he gets there?[/quote]

He should visit and then they should have to visit tribes who want the Redskins to keep the name. Is it too much to ask that there be some semblance of a consensus among American Indians before the Skins change their name?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=punch it in;1037377]It is definitely about skin color.....[/quote]

:doh:

[url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/09/09/220654611/are-you-ready-for-some-controversy-the-history-of-redskin]Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin' : Code Switch : NPR[/url]

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1037374]Didn't someone say Redskins wasn't about Indians actual skin color, but the red war paint they used? I dunno. I just don't see Redskins as derogatory and I'm a minority.

Although... I did find Redskin in the racial slur database... :Smoker:

[URL="http://www.rsdb.org/slur/redskin"]The Racial Slur Database[/URL][/quote]


[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redskin_(slang[/URL])

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

"I've talked to our students, our parents and our community about this and nobody finds any offense at all in it," says Tim Ames, the superintendent of Wellpinit schools. "'Redskins' is not an insult to our kids. 'Wagon burners' is an insult. 'Prairie n-----s' is an insult. Those are very upsetting to our kids. But 'Redskins' is an honorable name we wear with pride. & In fact, I'd like to see somebody come up here and try to change it."

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=skinsguy;1037416]I have done research on the name and no it doesn't have racist roots. That doesn't mean that somewhere along the way someone decided that it could be used in a derogatory manner but to say its roots or origin is born out of racism is severely incorrect.[/quote]

The closets reference talking about the name is a book by Dr. Bruce Stapleton
ISBN: 0-595-17167-2

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1037343][url=http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/professional/football/redskins/article_26b0f8d8-eb22-52f0-87df-c05e24bbfc0e.html]Woody: American Indians in Va. have no problem with “Redskins� - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Football[/url]

They have actually[/quote]

But this is purely anecdotal. As I said before we can find just as many articles with the opposite POV. The last study that came out said 90% weren't offended but that was a decade ago. A lot changes in a decade.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

You know I've been thinking about this a little bit different lately. Not all businesses cater to everyone. Didn't the CEO of Abercrombe offend all the over weight people with some statements he said or ads he has been running? Weither you agree with him or not, they are offended and won't be shopping at his stores. So what? Since when does a business operating in a free capitalistic market have to "not offend" everyone? I guess since we all got too PC.

There are lots of things or business that offend me. If I am offended I won't shop there or go there, but that doesn't mean I think they should change so I won't be offended. The world is bigger than me and not everything is all about me. I think some people should learn that.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=scowan;1037465]You know I've been thinking about this a little bit different lately. Not all businesses cater to everyone. Didn't the CEO of Abercrombe offend all the over weight people with some statements he said or ads he has been running? Weither you agree with him or not, they are offended and won't be shopping at his stores. So what? Since when does a business operating in a free capitalistic market have to "not offend" everyone? I guess since we all got too PC.

There are lots of things or business that offend me. If I am offended I won't shop there or go there, but that doesn't mean I think they should change so I won't be offended. [B]The world is bigger than me and not everything is all about me. I think some people should learn that.[/B][/quote]

cheers to that

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=scowan;1037465]You know I've been thinking about this a little bit different lately. Not all businesses cater to everyone. Didn't the CEO of Abercrombe offend all the over weight people with some statements he said or ads he has been running? Weither you agree with him or not, they are offended and won't be shopping at his stores. So what? Since when does a business operating in a free capitalistic market have to "not offend" everyone? [B]I guess since we all got too PC.
[/B]
There are lots of things or business that offend me. If I am offended I won't shop there or go there, but that doesn't mean I think they should change so I won't be offended. The world is bigger than me and [B]not everything is all about me.[/B] I think some people should learn that.[/quote]
..........prophetic

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

Why arent Peter King, Bob Costas, and other rich white offended elitist focused on more pressing issues within the Indian community like poverty, alcholism, and education? This country is a trip where hypocrisy rules.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1037435]But this is purely anecdotal. As I said before we can find just as many articles with the opposite POV. The last study that came out said 90% weren't offended but that was a decade ago. A lot changes in a decade.[/quote]

Your talking about the heart of Redskins country where actual indians have more Redskins media exposure, fans, indian symbolism, etc. and your saying this doesnt matter? This is where the most offended should be.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

I never said it doesn't matter. I am saying it is an article with one person's POV. I agree that this is the population that is most directly impacted by the Redskins label, but the article doesn't prove anything one way or another.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1037475]I never said it doesn't matter. I am saying it is an article with one person's POV. I agree that this is the population that is most directly impacted by the Redskins label, but the article doesn't prove anything one way or another.[/quote]

It gives actual prespective from indians stating the term redskins is not offensive and never has been.

If you want to talk prove or proof ask the Oneida indians

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=scowan;1037465]You know I've been thinking about this a little bit different lately. Not all businesses cater to everyone. Didn't the CEO of Abercrombe offend all the over weight people with some statements he said or ads he has been running? Weither you agree with him or not, they are offended and won't be shopping at his stores. So what? Since when does a business operating in a free capitalistic market have to "not offend" everyone? I guess since we all got too PC.

There are lots of things or business that offend me. If I am offended I won't shop there or go there, but that doesn't mean I think they should change so I won't be offended. [B]The world is bigger than me and not everything is all about me. I think some people should learn that.[/B][/quote]

Agree, but at the same time there are a lot of people who support keeping the name who are making it about "me". "I don't care that you feel it offends your heritage, this is [B]my[/B] football team, [B]my[/B] team colors, [B]my[/B] team history. Why are you taking that away from [B]me[/B]?"

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1037477]Agree, but at the same time there are a lot of people who support keeping the name who are making it about "me". "I don't care that you feel it offends your heritage, this is [B]my[/B] football team, [B]my[/B] team colors, [B]my[/B] team history. Why are you taking that away from [B]me[/B]?"[/QUOTE]
Well said.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1037477]Agree, but at the same time there are a lot of people who support keeping the name who are making it about "me". "I don't care that you feel it offends your heritage, this is [B]my[/B] football team, [B]my[/B] team colors, [B]my[/B] team history. Why are you taking that away from [B]me[/B]?"[/quote]

Smoot, exactly. Right now there are a lot of Minority groups that want to take away "stuff" from those in the majority. It seems to all be in the name of "fairness" or "equality" or whatever they want to call it. (In this case they are using the "I'm Offended" card.) The Majority should not have to cater to the Minority on everything. Especially private business related things. If the name Redskins offend you, then don't buy their merchandise or go to their games. Its entertainment. Maybe a theater show about homosexuals offends me,... easy enough solution, I won't attend. Do I think other people shouldn't attend? That's not for me to decide or take away from them.

If I want to go see a stand up comic who cusses with every other word and that offends you, then don't go. But don't take away my right to go.

[QUOTE=44Deezel;1037422]:doh:

[url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/09/09/220654611/are-you-ready-for-some-controversy-the-history-of-redskin]Are You Ready For Some Controversy? The History Of 'Redskin' : Code Switch : NPR[/url][/QUOTE]

There are several different theories and accounts about where the term came from. Nowhere is it definitively stated that the new foundland tribe who painted their bodies red is the true origin. Not to mention, that settlers referring to native americans as "redskins", and this tribe referred to as the "red men" are two completely different things.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=scowan;1037479]Smoot, exactly. Right now there are a lot of Minority groups that want to take away "stuff" from those in the majority. It seems to all be in the name of "fairness" or "equality" or whatever they want to call it. (In this case they are using the "I'm Offended" card.) The Majority should not have to cater to the Minority on everything. Especially private business related things. If the name Redskins offend you, then don't buy their merchandise or go to their games. Its entertainment. Maybe a theater show about homosexuals offends me,... easy enough solution, I won't attend. Do I think other people shouldn't attend? That's not for me to decide or take away from them.

If I want to go see a stand up comic who cusses with every other word and that offends you, then don't go. But don't take away my right to go.[/quote]

Im of Irish heritage who wants to start the campaign to rid Notre Dame of the Fighting Irish mascot and name? It holds a negative connotation. Im offended.

Nice post scowan.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=scowan;1037479]Smoot, exactly. Right now there are a lot of Minority groups that want to take away "stuff" from those in the majority. It seems to all be in the name of "fairness" or "equality" or whatever they want to call it. (In this case they are using the "I'm Offended" card.) The Majority should not have to cater to the Minority on everything. Especially private business related things. If the name Redskins offend you, then don't buy their merchandise or go to their games. Its entertainment. Maybe a theater show about homosexuals offends me,... easy enough solution, I won't attend. Do I think other people shouldn't attend? That's not for me to decide or take away from them.

If I want to go see a stand up comic who cusses with every other word and that offends you, then don't go. But don't take away my right to go.[/quote]

To be fair, Native Americans are not exactly like other minority groups. Other minority groups did not suffer having strangers show up, take their land away, and then enact government policies designed specifically to kill their cultures. The Native American experience is different from that of other minorities.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

This was posted before but it's worth posting again

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9689220/redskins-name-change-not-easy-sounds]Redskins name change not as easy as it sounds - ESPN[/url]

Pretty much sums up my views on the subject.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Lotus;1037490]To be fair, Native Americans are not exactly like other minority groups. Other minority groups did not suffer having strangers show up, take their land away, and then enact government policies designed specifically to kill their cultures. The Native American experience is different from that of other minorities.[/quote]

I don't support the name change but, to add on what you're saying, an estimated 50 million to 100 million Native Americans were wiped out by the European colonization. Thanks, smallpox!

But I'd say that's a... pretty good reason to be butthurt.

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1037477]Agree, but at the same time there are a lot of people who support keeping the name who are making it about "me". "I don't care that you feel it offends your heritage, this is [B]my[/B] football team, [B]my[/B] team colors, [B]my[/B] team history. Why are you taking that away from [B]me[/B]?"[/quote]

I can understand that in a way though. Hey, for a lot of us, there are great childhood memories associated with this team - especially a lot of us who grew up in the 80's. Changing the name almost feels as if we're erasing all of that history. Does it sound selfish? Absolutely. Is it wrong to think in those terms? Not at all. There's always this notion that words, over time, can bring about negative connotation, but nobody believes it can ever possibly be the other way around. I don't get that? Who made up that rule?

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1037493]I don't support the name change but, to add on what you're saying, an estimated 50 million to 100 million Native Americans were wiped out by the European colonization. Thanks, smallpox!

But I'd say that's a... pretty good reason to be butthurt.[/quote]

yall are right, you know we should leave. Hello Canada!

When Canadians travel abroad they like to represent their country in say the form of patches, etc on their backpacks. They want to be distinguished from Americans. Lol
Lets go to Mexico instead, plus the weather is nicer.
Cue James Taylor....

Re: Darrell Green does not support Redskin name change
 

[quote=Chico23231;1037496]yall are right, you know we should leave. Hello Canada![/quote]

I didn't mean that we should take it that far. But perhaps we should recognize that they might have a right to be upset and touchy about some things which for anyone else would just be whining.