Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzPBcCF9yKc]Call It Maybe (NFL Replacement Officials Parody) - KFAN FM 100.3 - YouTube[/url]

LOLOLOOLOL

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Skinzman;945490]Its pretty easy actually. You just give it to them. Its not even giving it to them, its actually just not taking away something they have been giving them for 30 years or so.

The fact is the harder the job, the more it is supposed to get paid. If its a specialty job, stop comparing it to the cashier at the local wal-mart. If the cashier at wal-mart could ref NFL games efficiently at 7 dollars an hour, this thread doesnt exist. Since the NFL is making 9 billion per year, and the replacement refs are making them look like a joke, the normal NFL refs are sure looking like they earn that money and pension. If they have earned it, then let them have it.

This entire argument that some cashiers and secretaries are full time and dont receive a pension are not legitimate arguments over whether an NFL ref deserves one or not.[/quote]

Ok, then compare it to MLB Umps or NBA refs

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[url=http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/09/25/lang-says-players-could-take-action-if-nfl-refs-issue-continues/]Lang Says Players Could Take Action If NFL Refs Issue Continues « CBS Detroit[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

The four issues (according to CNN) holding the Refs out:

1. Pay - Refs want more.
[I]Okay, I am down w/ the refs on this one. The NFL product makes gazillions and, as we have seen, the refs are a big part of that product.[/I]

2. Pension - NFL wants to change it, Refs don't want it changed.
[I]See above. Part-time NFL refs have a direct and immediate impact on the field of play, to me they are not the same as other part-time employees.[/I]

3. Reserve Refs - NFL wants to have the ability to replace underperforming refs. Refs don't want this b/c it affects their job security.
[I]Going with the NFL on this one. Sorry, "job security" seems to me just a way to protect on the field refs from their own mistakes. Sorry, for the same reason you get more pay (being the best of the best) is the same reason you don't get that kind of job security.[/I]

4. Full-time refs - NFL wants some, Refs are okay with it so long as pay is commensurate.
[I]Okay. Not sure this is an issue but, if it is, and reffing is currently a "part time" job, and you want to make it "full time" then full time employees should be making more than their part time compatriots.[/I]

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/sport/nfl-officials-labor-dispute/index.html]Four things the locked out NFL referees, league are still negotiating - CNN.com[/url]

When it comes to the money, I am on the "Pay'em" side. The NFL is a different paradigm than the other major sports leagues for many, many reasons and using other major league refs as a comparison, to me, fails to consider these differences. At the same time, I think the refs need to give up point 3. If this is an entirely different paradigm, part of that is b/c small screw ups have big reprucussions and, at this level, poor performance has serious ramifications - specifically, you don't get to continue in the big leagues. (I hear the LFL needs some refs).

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;945571]The four issues (according to CNN) holding the Refs out:

1. Pay - Refs want more.
[I]Okay, I am down w/ the refs on this one. The NFL product makes gazillions and, as we have seen, the refs are a big part of that product.[/I]

2. Pension - NFL wants to change it, Refs don't want it changed.
[I]See above. Part-time NFL refs have a direct and immediate impact on the field of play, to me they are not the same as other part-time employees.[/I]

3. Reserve Refs - NFL wants to have the ability to replace underperforming refs. Refs don't want this b/c it affects their job security.
[I]Going with the NFL on this one. Sorry, "job security" seems to me just a way to protect on the field refs from their own mistakes. Sorry, for the same reason you get more pay (being the best of the best) is the same reason you don't get that kind of job security.[/I]

4. Full-time refs - NFL wants some, Refs are okay with it so long as pay is commensurate.
[I]Okay. Not sure this is an issue but, if it is, and reffing is currently a "part time" job, and you want to make it "full time" then full time employees should be making more than their part time compatriots.[/I]

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/sport/nfl-officials-labor-dispute/index.html"]Four things the locked out NFL referees, league are still negotiating - CNN.com[/URL]

When it comes to the money, I am on the "Pay'em" side. The NFL is a different paradigm than the other major sports leagues for many, many reasons and using other major league refs as a comparison, to me, fails to consider these differences. At the same time, I think the refs need to give up point 3. If this is an entirely different paradigm, part of that is b/c small screw ups have big reprucussions and, at this level, poor performance has serious ramifications - specifically, you don't get to continue in the big leagues. (I hear the LFL needs some refs).[/quote]

I think this just about sums up my feelings on the issue. Well put JR.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

And then there's this:

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/john-lynch-says-nfl-duped-fox-into-going-easy-on-replacements/"]John Lynch says NFL “duped” FOX into going easy on replacements before Week One
[/URL]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

They're close to a deal. I'm not all in on the referees' side like others are, but I hope a fair deal is reached soon for the good of the game.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/showbiz/2012/09/26/conan-nfl-ref-highlight-reel.teamcoco]Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

@AdamSchefter: via @mortreport, agreement btwn NFL /NFLRA is at hand. Both sides will work to have officials working this wknd

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;945618]They're close to a deal. I'm not all in on the referees' side like others are, but I hope a fair deal is reached soon for the good of the game.[/QUOTE]

I'm with u but I hope it's finally over

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SmootSmack;945618]They're close to a deal. I'm not all in on the referees' side like others are, but I hope a fair deal is reached soon for the good of the game.[/quote]

I may not be in the referee's side, but the NFL put themselves in a terrible situation. I don't know how anyone could have thought that these replacement refs would work out. I hope it was a fair deal for both sides.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Hopefully they get this done. Monday was the breaking point and it cost GB a game. Can not go another week of this nonsense. But to me it seems like the refs are asking for a lot. I'm all for paying them more but pensions for part time employees??

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Shame it took a blown game to make this deal happen, but that's kind of what I was expecting.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/26/report-agreement-on-deal-between-nfl-officials-close/]Report: Agreement on deal between NFL, officials close | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=skinsfan69;945639]Hopefully they get this done. Monday was the breaking point and it cost GB a game. Can not go another week of this nonsense. But to me it seems like the refs are asking for a lot. I'm all for paying them more but pensions for part time employees??[/quote]

I'd be pretty stunned if a new deal is in place in time for the regular refs tomorrow night, so I'm guessing maybe a scab ref game tomorrow

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

^ i'm sure as well, but by the weekend let's hope...

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Can you say "Damage Control"

Jim Irsay ‏@JimIrsay

Your loud voices r heard about getting Refs back. We're desperately trying 2 get it done! We want a deal that improves officiating overall.
Retweeted by Albert Breer

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SmootSmack;945661]I'd be pretty stunned if a new deal is in place in time for the regular refs tomorrow night, so I'm guessing maybe a scab ref game tomorrow[/quote]

Hey SS, how realistic will it be for the Refs to be game ready tomorrow anyway? They didn't do preseason so like the players (but to a lesser degree) I don't think this weekend would be great, still better than Scabs for sure.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Even if the deal is done before the game, there's going to be replcaments in all games for another week or maybe two. There's still a training/re-orientation process for the most experienced refs. New and updated rules, etc.

We'll also have to see if any of them not named Hochuli have stayed in shape.

[IMG]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000155959/polls_edhochuliposterfi8_0442_217172_answer_3_xlarge.jpeg[/IMG]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

^ i think it would be a mistake to let it go further than this weekend and they know that... i expect our regular old refs this weekend.... but not tomorow night

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Monkeydad;945677]Even if the deal is done before the game, there's going to be replcaments in all games for another week or maybe two. There's still a training/re-orientation process for the most experienced refs. New and updated rules, etc.

We'll also have to see if any of them not named Hochuli have stayed in shape.

[IMG]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000155959/polls_edhochuliposterfi8_0442_217172_answer_3_xlarge.jpeg[/IMG][/quote]

Speaking of Hochuli...

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/26/referees-deal/index.html]NFL, referees still not close to deal; Ed Hochuli has prepped refs for immediate return - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Mods: Any chance we can get a Replacement Ref avatar for those people who can't behave?

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SmootSmack;945513]Ok, then compare it to MLB Umps or NBA refs[/quote]

Ok, they all wear black and white striped shirts. I can compare it to actual Zebras in some random zoo if you like.

If the argument is that MLB umps or NBA refs are underpaid, then take that up with those particular sports.

The final factor to me is 2 things. How hard the job is and how much the industry is making. If it is a specialty job, they have more bargaining power than something that everyone can do. The NFL could have made me believe that the refs were massively overpaid and I would have backed the league 100%. Except the people that the NFL are claiming are more than capable to do the job are doing the exact opposite. So it appears this is not a job that everyone can do. Its not even a job that some experienced in that field can do. So the NFL themselves has proven that the real NFL referees are worth it. Thats on the NFL...

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

mlb umps dont wear striped shirts...... :-)

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Meks;945723]mlb umps dont wear striped shirts...... :-)[/quote]

Gah... I thought they did. My bad. You can tell I dont watch baseball lol. My point however was more that the NFL is proving the refs worth it and that the other sports are not all that comparable.

Lets face it, MLB is review technology away from needing almost no refs whatsoever. They have close calls, but dont have to make that with 22 different players flying around in all directions. They know when that call is coming and SHOULD always be in the proper position. That cant be said for NFL refs when they also have to make sure they arent in the way. And sometimes making sure the play can happen means they move themselves out of prime location to make the needed call. Comparing NFL refs to MLB umps is like comparing the SEC to pop warner.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=RedskinRat;945710]Mods: Any chance we can get a Replacement Ref avatar for those people who can't behave?[/quote]

lolololol nice

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Meks;945685]^ i think it would be a mistake to let it go further than this weekend and they know that... i expect our regular old refs this weekend.... but not tomorow night[/quote]

This. Things have gotten completely out of control and I thing the league wants them back on the field asap.

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;945500]No doubt I agree with what your saying, it's just I kinda do see both sides here[/QUOTE]

Pick a side okie! Lol

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[quote=punch it in;945734]Pick a side okie! Lol[/quote]

He did north of the Red River. JK OK you still my boy Blue!!!!

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SmootSmack;945693]Speaking of Hochuli...

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/26/referees-deal/index.html]NFL, referees still not close to deal; Ed Hochuli has prepped refs for immediate return - Peter King - SI.com[/url][/quote]

Great news. I still think what the refs were asking from the league is a bit much- they make 6 figures if I'm not mistaken, they're part time employees, they get a per diem and have a pension that they don't pay into, and they want a 401K that they don't contribute to either....

Whatever, after Monday night they need to get back on the field.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SmootSmack;945693]Speaking of Hochuli...

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/09/26/referees-deal/index.html"]NFL, referees still not close to deal; Ed Hochuli has prepped refs for immediate return - Peter King - SI.com[/URL][/quote]


Dude is a true leader for their side. Good job, Captain Biceps.

[quote][U]The league likely would not demand they go through any preseason training[/U], because the NFL is so anxious for the nightmare of the replacements to be over.

[B]The NFL will have Hochuli to thank for the training sessions the NFL has not been able to run because he has run some of his own.[/B]

Every Tuesday night, the veteran official with the Popeye arms has been holding rules-related conference calls with all officials. Average attendance on the calls, I'm told, is between 90 and 110 per week. Hochuli, the officiating sources says, gives all officials a test each week, similar to one they might get from the NFL during a regular week of preparations, and then goes over the results on the phone with the officials.
"That's one of the reasons why the officials will be up to date and ready to go,'' the officiating source said. "Ed grabbed the bull by the horns and made sure that whenever this thing ended, the regular officials would be ready to go back to work immediately.''
As for terms of the new deal, it's likely the NFL will get some but not all of what it wanted with a taxi squad of developmental officials. One source said that was accomplished by guaranteeing the officials the same pool of money they would get even if some of them are replaced during the season for performance or health reasons.
[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]

[/COLOR][/LEFT]
[/quote]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8427652/locked-nfl-referees-return-early-week-sources]Locked-out NFL referees could return as early as this week -- sources - ESPN[/url]



edit: Crap. Saw Matty posted the PFT link about this earlier today. I was busy at work. :(

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Per NFL network an agreement has been reached.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000066725/article/nfl-referees-union-closing-in-on-agreement-to-end-lockout?module=HP11_breaking_news]NFL, referees' union agree to end lockout - NFL.com[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;945825]Per NFL network an agreement has been reached.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000066725/article/nfl-referees-union-closing-in-on-agreement-to-end-lockout?module=HP11_breaking_news]NFL, referees' union agree to end lockout - NFL.com[/url][/quote]

[YT]xZzEzDkeHzI[/YT]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

!!![quote=SFREDSKIN;945825]Per NFL network an agreement has been reached.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000066725/article/nfl-referees-union-closing-in-on-agreement-to-end-lockout?module=HP11_breaking_news]NFL, referees' union agree to end lockout - NFL.com[/url][/quote]

Great news! I'd like to play the Rams again. :cool-smil

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

I'm betting that we'll see a lot of Coaches saying along the same line of "Boy am I glad to see you guys again" or "boy never thought I'd miss you" to the refs. I also expect a lot of cheers from the fans whenever the refs make their first calls. Possibly even hear Ed Houchuli say "good to be back..we have holding offense ..."


Bottom line this is great news that we have real officials back.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Super happy about this being resolved because even though they aren't perfect either, the real refs are light years better than what's been calling these past 3 weeks worth of games, now how many quarters into tomorrow nights game before fans boo a call? Hahaha

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Finally! As has been mentioned the real refs are far from perfect but this will solve a lot of the issues the replacements were struggling with.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=53Fan;945832]!!!

Great news! I'd like to play the Rams again. :cool-smil[/quote]

18 game season...

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Monkeydad;945677]Even if the deal is done before the game, there's going to be replcaments in all games for another week or maybe two. There's still a training/re-orientation process for the most experienced refs. New and updated rules, etc.

We'll also have to see if any of them not named Hochuli have stayed in shape.

[IMG]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000155959/polls_edhochuliposterfi8_0442_217172_answer_3_xlarge.jpeg[/IMG][/quote]

sounds like ed had things under control

[quote]NFL referee Ed Hochuli told NFL.com's Jeff Darlington that he's ready to work a game this weekend. The officials expect to ratify the deal Saturday morning, Hochuli said.

"But all 121 guys and I are very glad we're back," Hochuli said. "We are ready. We missed preseason, and there's nothing we can do about missing on-field practice. But we've worked very, very hard over the last several months. We've taken 18 extensive rules test, watched hours and hours or video every week. We've worked very hard to be prepared. I think we're ready."

When asked how many curls he did when he heard the rumors that a deal might be getting done today, the famously muscular Hochuli said, "As soon as I heard the rumors, I got down on the floor and started doing pushups."[/quote]

i love that guy and can't wait to watch some real football with some real refs this weekend.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

robots would be better.