Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;800853]Who can believe what Shannahan says? His word is untrustworthy. He has a plan at QB. Yeah, and I have a plan to win the lottery. [B]He had a plan at the draft and I think it backfired.[/B] I hope his plan includes trading Haynesworth for a starting quarterback. I think Vince Young, Kyle Orton and Carson Palmer are equals. Not for one minute did I believe John Beck is our starter. Just like I didn't believe the multiple excuses for benching McNabb. Shanny is shaky.[/quote]

And what plan was that?

We had Gabbert right there if we wanted him, or we could have reached for Ponder there, or traded up to try to get Locker.

The plan obviously didn't involve taking one of these guys.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;800853]Who can believe what Shannahan says? His word is untrustworthy. He has a plan at QB. Yeah, and I have a plan to win the lottery. He had a plan at the draft and I think it backfired. I hope his plan includes trading Haynesworth for a starting quarterback. I think Vince Young, Kyle Orton and Carson Palmer are equals. Not for one minute did I believe John Beck is our starter. Just like I didn't believe the multiple excuses for benching McNabb. Shanny is shaky.[/quote]

While I've not like some of Shannahan's decisions in the past, I wouldn't call him shaky. I'm glad to see a coach/FO that doesn't blindly take a QB just to take a QB. With the many needs this team has had (some created by the change of defense), I think the FO did a good job at using our picks efficiently. I do believe he should've done what he is doing this year last year (as in not trading for McNabb, find a cheap holdover QB), but I'm glad he is doing that this year.

Besides, free agency should put some QBs in the market (without having to give up picks).

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

There are two ways Beck can help the Skins:
1. He has his coming out party and we fawn over him as the next good(not great) Redskins QB and we remain competitive for a few years.
2. He is so horrible that we pick really high next year.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Son Of Man;800834]I have to reluctantly agree. I am a huge Locker fan, but after he was taken at #8 we were SOL. IMO it would have been even worse if the FO then just took a QB (who they weren't sold on as potentially being "the guy") just to say we got one. If the guy you beleive in isn't there, then move on to other positions of need. I'm surprised by some of the criticism. [B]Like taking a 5th or 6th round QB was going to make us a better football team?[/B][/quote]


May I point out that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick?

May I point out that Matt Cassel was a 7th round pick?

May I point out that Ryan Fitzpatrick was a 7th round pick?

May I point out that Bruce Gradkowski was a 6th round pick?


There are plenty of starts among that group and more than a couple of wins too. The trick in later rounds is to find the hidden gem. To show what I mean by that statement:

May I point out that Colt Brennan was a 6th round pick?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

David Garrard?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Garrard was an "early round pick". He went in the 4th round in 02...


BTW, Marc Bulger also was a 6th round pick...

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

For how the everyfan clamors for his team to trade down every year, it must be noted that trade downs are only possible when you have something of value. And we picked up an extra second rounder in this draft because we had something of value fall to us at no. 10. We could have picked Gabbert there, and I think we would have gotten good value on that pick in doing so. Better than if we had picked Robert Quinn at that same spot (which, btw, we would have).

The other thing is that, I believe, the right to choose between Quinn and Kerrigan wasn't very valuable. It's clear that given their choice, the Redskins thought Quinn was a better fit. I had him ranked above Kerrigan, but barely. And I don't have a great feel for who will be a better pro. But I have heard from people I trust that Kerrigan will actually pick up the nuances of being a 3-4 pass rushing LB faster/better than Quinn would have.

I think the right to choose was a lot more important for St. Louis, in the Steve Spagnuolo 40 front. They'll be happy with Quinn, I think.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://www.thephinsider.com/2007/5/2/0358/03650]John Beck: Our Franchise QB - The Phinsider[/url]

unsure if this has been posted but it's a little about Beck's capabilities, includes a "07 scouting report...hopefully he's gotten better and he knows the playbook and the system by now. which is obviously huge because of the lockout.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;800865]May I point out that Tom Brady was a 6th round pick?

May I point out that Matt Cassel was a 7th round pick?

May I point out that Ryan Fitzpatrick was a 7th round pick?

May I point out that Bruce Gradkowski was a 6th round pick?


There are plenty of starts among that group and more than a couple of wins too. The trick in later rounds is to find the hidden gem. To show what I mean by that statement:

May I point out that Colt Brennan was a 6th round pick?[/quote]

More exceptions than rule here.

BTW- Only one of those guys is a winner.

Now, how many other QB's (since Brady was taken in 2000) in the mid - late rounds have been taken versus those who you are throwing up to prove your point? I have no interest in inveting the time to do the research but will take a flyer and say there is less than a 10% sucess rate.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Smart move with Beck in the fact that he was shielded to learn the offense last year. If his decision making is better we may have made the right move.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Who knows, maybe Beck is the answer at least in the short term. I don't think it would be that crazy of a thought. Cam Cameron drafted him, he seems to know a thing or two about QBs. I think Shanahan is honest in saying he had him graded high coming out of college, and obviously KS likes him too. And I've heard other analysts say good things about him and all he needs is a shot. We shall see.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Worth a read

[url=http://blog.redskins.com/2011/05/03/looking-at-john-beck-as-a-qb-prospect/]Looking At John Beck As A QB Prospect[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

The problem I have with the Beck plan is not that I think it can't work...I actually think that as the organization begins to repair itself from years of mismanagement, Beck will have a better shot at offensive success than Campbell or McNabb ever had. I just think it's worth pointing out that Beck could throw 25 TDs and have a fringe pro bowl year in 2011, and he'd still be a bad candidate for an extension because he wouldn't have proved anything except that he too can have a career year.

So even if Beck "works" out great in the Shanahan system, you still don't really have a QB after the season. All you have bought is time...and the right to buy that time at an expensive price.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;800883]The problem I have with the Beck plan is not that I think it can't work...I actually think that as the organization begins to repair itself from years of mismanagement, Beck will have a better shot at offensive success than Campbell or McNabb ever had. I just think it's worth pointing out that Beck could throw 25 TDs and have a fringe pro bowl year in 2011, and he'd still be a bad candidate for an extension because he wouldn't have proved anything except that he too can have a career year.

So even if Beck "works" out great in the Shanahan system, you still don't really have a QB after the season. All you have bought is time...and the right to buy that time at an expensive price.[/quote]

Even if he had a solid season you don't think he could be re-signed at a reasonable price? I don't see us breaking the bank on him, the only way he would have serious leverage is if he was league MVP and won the SB. Either way we're obviously getting ahead of ourselves here lol.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I have NO faith in Beck guys, He's 30 and has a very avg arm. Sorry but I'd honestly rather have VY or Orton, Young can make plays out of no where and atleast Orton has played very well the last 3 years

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

The reality here is most fans just want to feel comfortable in the thought of long-term security at the QB position.

You don't have to look far in wondering why we continue to meet with minimal success year after year, we dont have stability at the most important position on the team. If John Beck were to be named the starting QB to commence the 2011 season, he would be for us the third starting QB in as many years. That needs to change.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;800887]I have NO faith in Beck guys, He's 30 and has a very avg arm. Sorry but I'd honestly rather have VY or Orton, Young can make plays out of no where and atleast Orton has played very well the last 3 years[/quote]

i don't buy the age problem....he's 30, but he has very little wear and tear if any. if you click on the link i posted above it shows him trowing a 70 yrd bomb...granted its been a some years.

anyway i trust Shanny, he wouldn't pass on high rated rookies if he doubted that Beck would be better (at least for this season).

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I trust MS also but I thought Mcnabb would work as well

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

As a fan of the Dolphins since 66 I will only say this. John Beck was thrown to the wolves with the hope of saving Cam Cameron's job,

Some facts you might want to think about before judging Beck:
1. He was on the PS until just 4 days before starting. Remember he started the season as the # 3 QB on the chart.
2. The o-line was in shambles
3. The starting RB was the 3rd stringer as both Ronnie and Ricky were on IR
4. The Dolphins #1 WR had just been traded the week before to the Chargers
and last but not least one of the o-line guards openly stated he would only play if C. Lemon were the starter. You may recall a fight on the team plane after Beck's first start; that's what the misunderstanding was all about. It also points to the lack of Vet and coaching leadership that year.

This guy never had a chance. Yes I am a Johnny Beck fan, always have been, even before Miami drafted him. Hated Quinn knew he would be a bust, he is.

I tell you this, honestly if John is your starter when you play Miami there will be one Miami fan on your sideline yelling for Johnny to play payback time and for the Skins to win big time. Run up the score, won't hurt my feelings at all!

BTW I still have and wear my #9 Beck Orange Jersey!

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;800889]The reality here is most fans just want to feel comfortable in the thought of long-term security at the QB position.

You don't have to look far in wondering why we continue to meet with minimal success year after year, we dont have stability at the most important position on the team. If John Beck were to be named the starting QB to commence the 2011 season, he would be for us the third starting QB in as many years. That needs to change.[/quote]

Preach.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=gafinfan;800913]As a fan of the Dolphins since 66 I will only say this. John Beck was thrown to the wolves with the hope of saving Cam Cameron's job,

Some facts you might want to think about before judging Beck:
1. He was on the PS until just 4 days before starting. Remember he started the season as the # 3 QB on the chart.
2. The o-line was in shambles
3. The starting RB was the 3rd stringer as both Ronnie and Ricky were on IR
4. The Dolphins #1 WR had just been traded the week before to the Chargers
and last but not least one of the o-line guards openly stated he would only play if C. Lemon were the starter. You may recall a fight on the team plane after Beck's first start; that's what the misunderstanding was all about. It also points to the lack of Vet and coaching leadership that year.

This guy never had a chance. Yes I am a Johnny Beck fan, always have been, even before Miami drafted him. Hated Quinn knew he would be a bust, he is.

I tell you this, honestly if John is your starter when you play Miami there will be one Miami fan on your sideline yelling for Johnny to play payback time and for the Skins to win big time. Run up the score, won't hurt my feelings at all!

BTW I still have and wear my #9 Beck Orange Jersey![/quote]



Thanks for the insight

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I honestly believe this is just Shanny being Shanny ... staying mum about his true moves as he ducks and deals in the background

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

This is a frigging smokescreen, I will say it til I am blue in the face. Shanny said the draft was only half the equation. We fulfilled many needs with the draft. The WR corp alone is taken care of. Only major needs not taken care of were QB and O line. We can probably find some gems with undrafted FA for the line, and save money for the FA QB acquisition.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;800889]The reality here is most fans just want to feel comfortable in the thought of long-term security at the QB position.

You don't have to look far in wondering why we continue to meet with minimal success year after year, we dont have stability at the most important position on the team. If John Beck were to be named the starting QB to commence the 2011 season, he would be for us the third starting QB in as many years. That needs to change.[/quote]

While I could not agree with you more, but as you well know having a francise QB without the other components is fruitless. While they did not secure the QB, they did take significant steps (and they will add to the O-line in FA) to the other components to make his life easier.
If they could have gotten the QB they wanted they would have....or he is not available yet. Next years draft and FA will be a good time as this years was.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Hog1;800941]While I could not agree with you more, but as you well know having a francise QB without the other components is fruitless. While they did not secure the QB, they did take significant steps (and they will add to the O-line in FA) to the other components to make his life easier.
If they could have gotten the QB they wanted they would have....or he is not available yet. Next years draft and FA will be a good time as this years was.[/quote]


Moore would by a great pickup. Luck would be the best, but I doubt we are going to be in the bottom 10 teams(I hope not anyway).

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=gafinfan;800913]As a fan of the Dolphins since 66 I will only say this. John Beck was thrown to the wolves with the hope of saving Cam Cameron's job,

Some facts you might want to think about before judging Beck:
1. He was on the PS until just 4 days before starting. Remember he started the season as the # 3 QB on the chart.
2. The o-line was in shambles
3. The starting RB was the 3rd stringer as both Ronnie and Ricky were on IR
4. The Dolphins #1 WR had just been traded the week before to the Chargers
and last but not least one of the o-line guards openly stated he would only play if C. Lemon were the starter. You may recall a fight on the team plane after Beck's first start; that's what the misunderstanding was all about. It also points to the lack of Vet and coaching leadership that year.

This guy never had a chance. Yes I am a Johnny Beck fan, always have been, even before Miami drafted him. Hated Quinn knew he would be a bust, he is.

I tell you this, honestly if John is your starter when you play Miami there will be one Miami fan on your sideline yelling for Johnny to play payback time and for the Skins to win big time. Run up the score, won't hurt my feelings at all!

BTW I still have and wear my #9 Beck Orange Jersey![/quote]

Thanks for the insight man, it's a bit of a relief.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I say let's see what we have in Beck if he can beat Grossman out for the starting job put him on the field. Open competition, let the best man win.

We know what Grossman is, we know what Vince Young is, we know what Kyle Orton is and he's going to cost a bunch to get. There's no franchise QB out there right now.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Draft Day Breakdown from Jaws
[YT]MflFK7Q0o9E[/YT]
At the very least we can understand why Shanahan might have ranked Beck above Quinn, Kolb, and Russel on draft day.

Also funny to see Kipers best available during the draft.

[quote=skinsfaninok;800887]I have NO faith in Beck guys, He's 30 and has a [B]very avg arm[/B]. Sorry but I'd honestly rather have VY or Orton, Young can make plays out of no where and atleast Orton has played very well the last 3 years[/quote]

I feel that you're right to be skeptical as it relates to Beck. However if arm strength is what you're worried about, well lets just say Beck has you covered
[YT]dHBy7uIV_iE[/YT]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Seemed more like 60 yards to me, but it's obvious that Beck has more than just a noodle arm.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;800887]I have NO faith in Beck guys, He's 30 and has a [I][U][B]very avg arm[/B][/U][/I].[/quote]I don't post that often but no offense it often seems like you're loudly factual incorrect:

[quote=By Jim Corbett, USA TODAY
]Brigham Young quarterback John Beck is among the players who raised his stock with an impressive showing at the Indianapolis scouting combine.
As much as he impressed with his arm, Beck proved to be a sharp decision-maker, too, perhaps best exemplified when confronted with one of those combine brain-teasers.....Beck impressed with his vision, accuracy and velocity, soaring up the charts from middle of the pack to among those in the mix after the top two prospects at the quarterback position.

"There's JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn, and it's John Beck next," says Rob Rang, a senior draft analyst for NFLDraftScout.com. "He's very accurate. He really helped himself by throwing well at the combine."

[B][I][U][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Beck's ball speed of 61.1 mph[/COLOR][/U][/I][/B] was second best among quarterbacks and better than Heisman Trophy winner Troy Smith's 58.5 mph, Michigan State's Drew Stanton's 55.7 or Stanford's Trent Edwards' 55.2. (Neither Russell nor Quinn threw at the combine.)[/quote]


[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-03-07-john-beck_N.htm]Beck sliding into No. 3 QB spot in NFL draft - USATODAY.com[/url]

Also, I asked Anthony Armstrong about Beck during his radio show awhile back and AAA said that Beck had a live arm.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;800868]Garrard was an "early round pick". He went in the 4th round in 02...


BTW, Marc Bulger also was a 6th round pick...[/quote]Oh, I know.
I was wondering that could David Garard be the QB to named later contingent upon the CBA as part of the draft day trade?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

This analysis could very well speak to the Redskins reasoning for passing on a passer in this years draft.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-league/post/what-to-make-of-the-quarterback-class-of-2011/2010/12/20/AF15zJhF_blog.html]What to make of the quarterback class of 2011 - The League - The Washington Post[/url]

The QB situation in Carolina is going to be one worth watching. Newton vs. Clausen will be interesting in more ways than one. Some thought we should have drafted Clausen last year. Is it likely they feel the same way today? That same question probably will be posed around the league this time next year about this years selections.

In all fairness though, the labor situation is going to hamper the early development of many of these young players, especially QB's

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

He threw 70 Yards in college folks, that was 4-5 years ago. When he was at miami his arm wasn't close to as good like it was at BYU.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=30gut;800983]I don't post that often but no offense it often seems like you're loudly factual incorrect:[/quote]

"I don't post often, but when I do...it's to shut you up." 30gut: The Most Interesting Man on the Warpath

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;800986]This analysis could very well speak to the Redskins reasoning for passing on a passer in this years draft.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-league/post/what-to-make-of-the-quarterback-class-of-2011/2010/12/20/AF15zJhF_blog.html]What to make of the quarterback class of 2011 - The League - The Washington Post[/url]

The QB situation in Carolina is going to be one worth watching. Newton vs. Clausen will be interesting in more ways than one. Some thought we should have drafted Clausen last year. Is it likely they feel the same way today? That same question probably will be posed around the league this time next year about this years selections.

In all fairness though, the labor situation is going to hamper the early development of many of these young players, especially QB's[/quote]

I'd love to go after Clausen...would even seriously consider Matt Moore but he may no better than a solid backup

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;800986]This analysis could very well speak to the Redskins reasoning for passing on a passer in this years draft.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-league/post/what-to-make-of-the-quarterback-class-of-2011/2010/12/20/AF15zJhF_blog.html]What to make of the quarterback class of 2011 - The League - The Washington Post[/url]

The QB situation in Carolina is going to be one worth watching. Newton vs. Clausen will be interesting in more ways than one. Some thought we should have drafted Clausen last year. Is it likely they feel the same way today? That same question probably will be posed around the league this time next year about this years selections.

In all fairness though, the labor situation is going to hamper the early development of many of these young players, especially QB's[/quote]

I still like Clausen. He had next to no chance last year in Carolina. I don't want to give up the #2 pick Carolina spent on him but if they are looking to turn the page I would throw a mid round pick for him.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;801010]He threw 70 Yards in college folks, that was 4-5 years ago. When he was at miami his arm wasn't close to as good like it was at BYU.[/quote]
His 61.1 mph was measured at the Combine. Sooooo, unless he had a traumatic injury prior to his Miami start, I just don't see how his armed died so quickly.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Just going by what we saw from him last preseason, I don't see anything wrong with his arm.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I see nothing wrong with Beck's arm. He does sometimes have that quirky 3/4 semi-sidearm release, rather than an over-the-top release, though.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;800980]Draft Day Breakdown from Jaws
[YT]MflFK7Q0o9E[/YT]
At the very least we can understand why Shanahan might have ranked Beck above Quinn, Kolb, and Russel on draft day.

Also funny to see Kipers best available during the draft.



I feel that you're right to be skeptical as it relates to Beck. However if arm strength is what you're worried about, well lets just say Beck has you covered
[YT]dHBy7uIV_iE[/YT][/quote]

From the 36 YL to the 1...that's 63 yards exactly.