Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

^^^ [QUOTE] 3. However, let us continue to be rational and maintain our scorn for both sides of this mess. Remember, these guys are arguing over how to split ANNUAL revenues of $9B+ - - and that is money that comes from the fans. Realize they could still have a work-stoppage over how to split up OUR money. [UN\

The split is obviously the crux of this entire debacle which has been plain to see from the very beginning. $800 million is a wide disparity.

[url=http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2011/03/mark-maske-the-nfl-players.html]NFL News Feed: NFLPA presses owners for more financial data - Leonard Bernstein[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;788312]So WTF more does Smith want.This guy is starting to piss me off. He asked for something the NFL said ok here look then he says no thanks still not good enough. I swear to god a deal better happen by Friday or I'm taking this into my own hands. I'll show them!!![/quote]

Listening to Demaurice Smith this morning he said the league offered to show two numbers. 1) the total profit of the league (i.e. 9 bil) 2) the total number of teams w/ declining profit (i.e. 9).

These numbers werent going to be broken down or supported in any way, just a peice of paper with 2 numbers on it.

He said if the league lists 9 teams w/ declining profit that number could and would include teams that made 249 mil this past season compared to 250 mil the year before.

He said they got more info from a Forbes 3 page article than the one page with 2 numbers the league offered.

The league did not offer to show each teams individual profits, numbers or anything of the sort.

He also said the NFLPA will not budge from their 50-50 offer until they get real disclosure that supports the league's position that teams are losing money (i.e. audited books from each team and league)

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

One thing for sure; All the big guns are finally in the same room.

[QUOTE]various Twitter feeds:

Also going in with Kessler was @DeSmithNFLPA and Pete Kendall.
NFLPA outside counsel Jeffrey Kessler has entered the FMCS building.

Roger Goodell, Art Rooney, Joe Banner and Clark Hunt just got out of Escalade, walked into FMCS.

Expected among those from NFLPA today: Dawkins, Waters, Batch, Saturday, Morey, Bennett, McFarland, Kendall, Foxworth ...

NFL general counsel Jeff Pash, outside counsel Bob Batterman have arrived at FMCS.

Sign of critical stage: Jerry Jones, Jerry Richardson, Pat Bowlen, Mark Murphy, Mike Brown, Dean Spanos scheduled to be in Washington today.
[/QUOTE]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Longtimefan;788421]^^^ [QUOTE] 3. However, let us continue to be rational and maintain our scorn for both sides of this mess. Remember, these guys are arguing over how to split ANNUAL revenues of $9B+ - - and that is money that comes from the fans. Realize they could still have a work-stoppage over how to split up OUR money. [UN\

[B]The split is obviously the crux of this entire debacle which has been plain to see from the very beginning.[/B] $800 million is a wide disparity.

[url=http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/nflnewsfeed/2011/03/mark-maske-the-nfl-players.html]NFL News Feed: NFLPA presses owners for more financial data - Leonard Bernstein[/url][/quote]

Are you saying it's about the money? I'm shocked to hear that! [U]Shocked[/U], I tell you!

There are way too many chiefs involved on the owners' side for the split to have been quickly resolved. The owners can't even resolve the issue of how their revenues are to be distributed among themselves. It seems that capitalist billionaires become confused when they attempt to practice socialism among themselves. Then, throw in the players' demands and it becomes a real mess.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=SmootSmack;788329][url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-rookiewagescale030911]Sources: Agreement reached on rookie scale - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

According to this article though, no parameters have been set and clarity has not been completely established.

[url=http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nfl_talks_hit_snag_as_clock_ticks_e0UG6EVfs5UcgTBI30yHwM]NFL talks hit snag as clock ticks - NYPOST.com[/url]

[QUOTE] There were reports quoting anonymous sources that the sides had agreed on the framework of a rookie wage scale, but both Smith and Pash denied that last night. [UN\

ps/ with so many issues and so much discussion, there's a go-round and it's not merry.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Midnight tonight:

[url=http://www.nypost.com/video]Videos[/url]

Sorry guys! I think this link is inoperable. It's posting a series of videos but. not the one I particularly had in mind.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

I've been blissfully (and intentionally) burying my head in the sand about this whole mess, figuring they can't all be this collectively arrogant and STUPID not to figure this out but it appears I was wrong.. Looks like we're going to see decertification, litigation and postponement of the beginning of the regular season. Goodell is going to get crushed at the draft every time he steps to the podium to announce a pick. Morons.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Paintrain;788448]Goodell is going to get crushed at the draft every time he steps to the podium to announce a pick.[/quote]

I bet you're right. Must-see TV. :D

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Boy, Adam Schein had a huge day ripping all the owners who showed up late today at the mediation. The last of the 9 didn't show up until 2:45. 24 + hours till deadline, Where is Jack Bauer when you need him!

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Monkeydad;788453]I bet you're right. Must-see TV. :D[/quote]

"Oh you guys want to keep booing huh? HUH? All right well lets try this. I am now effectively banning the 3 point stance in the NFL. Also I am extending the season to 20 games. For every fan that continues to boo me I will proceed to suspend your best player on your favorite team for one game per citation. Unless your a Colts or Pats fan. I am Roger MOTHERF**KING GOODELL! AND DON'T NONE OF YOU FORGETS IT!"

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;788457]Boy, Adam Schein had a huge day ripping all the owners who showed up late today at the mediation. The last of the 9 didn't show up until 2:45. 24 + hours till deadline, Where is Jack Bauer when you need him![/quote]

Schein is right... it's total B.S.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Well now, the union crew is holed up in their office. This is a monumental train wreck.

AlbertBreer
So DeMaurice Smith and the union crew will be holed up at their office taking a break, for the time being.
5 minutes ago

Wow. A twitter fight between owners and nflpa on the eve of the end of labor peace.

Cohen's memoirs will be must read stuff about this mediation no matter how tomorrow turns out.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

It's going to be really hard for players to take it seriously when the NFL and NFLPA tell them to cool it on Twitter when they can't even control themselves

@AdamSchefter: Wow RT @ProFootballMgmt: @gregaiello You can take your 150 pages of CBA revisions and shove em! Can you say treble damages, Doty is waiting!"

Ugh why even meet tomorrow. Just file the papers and let the lawyers claim their fair share of that 9Billion

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/10/AR2011031005952.html]NFL labor talks appear to be near collapse[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;788493]@AdamSchefter: Wow RT @ProFootballMgmt: @gregaiello You can take your 150 pages of CBA revisions and shove em! Can you say treble damages, Doty is waiting!"

[B]Ugh why even meet tomorrow. Just file the papers and let the lawyers claim their fair share of that 9Billion[/B][/quote]

Muhahahaaa <rubbing hands together and grinning evilly>

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;788500]Muhahahaaa <rubbing hands together and grinning evilly>[/quote]

Lawyers... you can't live with 'em ... you , hmmmm, nevermind.

---

on CBA news

daniel kaplan tweet:
Jerry jones just walked in and said "hopefully we will have something for you in an hour or two."


After the SB fiasco, should JJ really be making timeline predictions?

---

and finally,

assuming a lockout/season disruption, can the fans file a class action suit against the owners and players, claiming extreme duress due to both parties extreme idiocy? maybe they can settle with one year free NFL Sunday Ticket for every united states household

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

oh Happy Day! Smiles available, only $800mill

[IMG]http://c0013679.cdn1.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/x2_4f5b03f[/IMG]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Mike Golic said yesterday it looks like its headed to court. He & Mike G. said that the public comments were a pretty strong sign that the positive gains made by having the mediator were already eroding, and that both sides resumed their attempts to win public support.

I understand why both sides want public support, but if it heads to court, that isn't going to matter unless you have a very unprofessional judge. I have to agree w/Mike & Mike, based on the info we're looking at now, this thing is headed to court.

I've heard 6 months as a time for it to get to court, which puts us right at the beginning of the season. Maybe we'll see some games by Nov.?

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/10/league-year-could-start-long-before-new-cba-is-reached/]League year could start long before new CBA is reached | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=Mattyk;788556][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/10/league-year-could-start-long-before-new-cba-is-reached/]League year could start long before new CBA is reached | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

This is the link to the actual Peter King article. I had posted it earlier in the free agency thread.

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/03/10/nfl-labor-restraining-order/index.html]NFL free agency could happen sooner under one labor scenario - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Probably the best quick hits explanation of the various legal tactics both sides can use:

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabriel-a-feldman/the-legal-issues-behind-t_b_820579.html]Gabriel A. Feldman: NFL Lockout: The Legal Issues Behind the NFL-CBA Negotiations[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/11/david-cornwell-proposes-a-new-compensation-model/]David Cornwell proposes a new player compensation model | ProFootballTalk[/url]

This makes the first best case for siding with the players to me. Until I read this a few times and noodled it I was a slight lean towards the owners. Now I am much more inclined to understand the logical desires of the players side. I can't find a hole in his explanation although I don't know that the solutions he presents are practical.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=FRPLG;788569][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/11/david-cornwell-proposes-a-new-compensation-model/"]David Cornwell proposes a new player compensation model | ProFootballTalk[/URL]

This makes the first best case for siding with the players to me. Until I read this a few times and noodled it I was a slight lean towards the owners. Now I am much more inclined to understand the logical desires of the players side. I can't find a hole in his explanation although I don't know that the solutions he presents are practical.[/quote]

His compensation model doesn't side w/the players though, it's simply a corporate model solution that he feels could benefit both parties. Not a bad idea at all, I certainly hope there are other ideas like this floated in the mtgs. What I like about this idea is it at least gives the players a means to look to the future. I'm not taking sides in saying this, but overall the players approach has always been about getting the biggest contracts possible, but at the same time that reduces pay for the avg. player.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=freddyg12;788570]His compensation model doesn't side w/the players though, it's simply a corporate model solution that he feels could benefit both parties. Not a bad idea at all, I certainly hope there are other ideas like this floated in the mtgs. What I like about this idea is it at least gives the players a means to look to the future. I'm not taking sides in saying this, but overall the players approach has always been about getting the biggest contracts possible, but at the same time that reduces pay for the avg. player.[/quote]
Well it also shorts them as group on what Cornwell calls investment. The 1 bil that gets scraped off the top he calls "investment" with no tangible return (or very difficult to quantify return). That's the part that is broken. The players give back that 1bil in the name of helping the game but then they have no reason to know whether the 1bil lines the owners' pockets or really does "help" keep the game going.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

So the NFL has given another proposal to the players. I imagine this is there "last-best" offer, and the one they intend to try to enforce if decertification happens.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;788585]So the NFL has given another proposal to the players. I imagine this is there "last-best" offer, and the one they intend to try to enforce if decertification happens.[/quote]

CRedskinsRule..........Youre like me. Stressed out about this. Some other people that I know are wearing blinders. Thinking that there will never be a lockout. Its real folks. Its real and i'm f'ing pissed. D Smith is being alittle redic if you ask me. I know people say this all the time but I truly do live for Skins football. Its my life. Sad but true. Its all I talk about. I'm just hoping with get a shortened season atleast. Who knows :(

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

I think the players seem far too willing to blow this up considering they have a decent shot at not gaining much. The SC in the American Needle case did acknowledge the necessity for a sports league to enact controls that foster parity and competitive balance. While they stopped short of declaring it one entity they did grant them a path to coordinate certain activities as one entity. If they decertify ans sue they have to sue over everything. It'll cost them a lot and they may gain some flexibility but not a lot.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;788586]CRedskinsRule..........Youre like me. Stressed out about this. Some other people that I know are wearing blinders. Thinking that there will never be a lockout. Its real folks. Its real and i'm f'ing pissed. D Smith is being alittle redic if you ask me. I know people say this all the time but I truly do live for Skins football. Its my life. Sad but true. Its all I talk about. I'm just hoping with get a shortened season atleast. Who knows :([/quote]

Soul-Skins, sounds like you have more to lose than any of em!

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=freddyg12;788589]Soul-Skins, sounds like you have more to lose than any of em![/quote]

lol........ I just love the game.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

De Smith told players during his conference call the plan is to decertify. GREAT!!!!!!!!!

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=FRPLG;788587]I think the players seem far too willing to blow this up considering they have a decent shot at not gaining much. The SC in the American Needle case did acknowledge the necessity for a sports league to enact controls that foster parity and competitive balance. While they stopped short of declaring it one entity they did grant them a path to coordinate certain activities as one entity. If they decertify ans sue they have to sue over everything. It'll cost them a lot and they may gain some flexibility but not a lot.[/quote]

I agree. I think that the players all feel good about Doty, and pretty confident based on the false premise that they are ENTiTLED to 50% of an ongoing business venture. Maybe a judge will take current status into account but everything they have gained as of now is based on the pre-existing CBA. If they de-certify and the CBA expires, everything is subject to repeal, and subject to the decisions of the court. I think it's a fair bet that no court in the land is going to make the deal less favorable to the owners than the current CBA, but many things could easily go against the players.

This is just my opinion, but I don't think the owners are going to be pushed into a deal this time, I think they would take their chances in court.

[QUOTE=SOUL-SKINS;788594]De Smith told players during his conference call the plan is to decertify. GREAT!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

It is. I'm glad, that's the only way players will get anything.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=hooskins;788600]It is. I'm glad, that's the only way players will get anything.[/quote]

Well I was just hoping they would just get a deal done but guess not. Its hard to sympathize with either party. Youre millionaires. If you dont like getting paid millions to play football do something else and make 50,000 to 80,000 grand a year. After saying that I guess i'm pro NFL.

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

Owners have finally opened their books to the players. Here's a sample page
[IMG]http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/CapsXXVI/Docs-1.gif[/IMG]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=hooskins;788600]It is. I'm glad, that's the only way players will get anything.[/quote]

see my above post, I don't see that the players get anything by de-certifying, except lawsuits. Lawyers want lawsuits. Pash and Smith are lawyers. They want this in court. Owners are businessmen, they don't want court but will if necessary. Players are acting like "sheep" and not questioning what could go wrong for them. It will be interesting to see if the "let us play" campaign continues if they start losing things like salary floors, and vet minimum's, and draft slotting.

They all thought that the capless year was going to be a boom, but it didn't work out that way, they might oughta look at that lesson before blindly following a lawyer's lead into court. (no offense JR)

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/11/silver-most-recent-offer-split-the-difference-union-headed-to-court/]Silver: Most recent offer split the difference, union headed to court | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;788601]Well I was just hoping they would just get a deal done but guess not. Its hard to sympathize with either party. Youre millionaires. If you dont like getting paid millions to play football do something else and make 50,000 to 80,000 grand a year. After saying that I guess i'm pro NFL.[/quote]

They are well paid and getting 50+% of the most profitable, popular sport the US has going. The owners certainly are no angels but the players are (imo) foolish sheep. They have no idea what they are risking for the sake of "being the product".

Ah well, another new journey is beginning for football fans. Lets see where this one leads

Re: Ongoing CBA discussions
 

with 45 minutes to go:

FO_DougFarrar
Oh, holy crap. @SI_JimTrotter now nfl network saying someone has asked for a delay. so, apparently the union has not decided to dissolve.
2 minutes ago
»
Pro Football Weekly
ProFootballWkly Pro Football Weekly
by FO_DougFarrar
NFL Network has just reported that the NFLPA has dissolved
8 minutes ago