Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854480]I find it funny, when Jason Campbell was behind center, it was always the OL and WR that sucked. Now that Beck is behind the center (with bad OL and mediocre WRs).....it's the QB.


Did any of you watch that game the other day? No run block. No pass block. Nothing. The thing that Beck did wrong was hold onto the ball too long. That said, guy never had time to do much of anything, and even Troy commented about how the WRs weren't getting open. I'm not saying Beck didn't play shitty because he without a doubt did, but he's played decent until Buffalo. I think the coaching staff need to devise something to counter the OL being decimated. (screen passes, 3 step drops, etc)[/quote]

Soooo many people blamed Campbell. How quickly ye forget.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=mbedner3420;854481]Soooo many people blamed Campbell. How quickly ye forget.[/quote]

I was one of them. Even though we had a bad line, the guy just didn't get it done, even when they did block,.

That said, Beck has done fine up until Sunday's game, but you can't expect a QB to endure that type of punishment all day.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854480]I find it funny, when Jasoni Campbell was behind center, it was always the OL and WR that sucked. Now that Beck is behind the center (with bad OL and mediocre WRs).....it's the QB.


Did any of you watch that game the other day? No run block. No pass block. Nothing. The thing that Beck did wrong was hold onto the ball too long. That said, guy never had time to do much of anything, and even Troy commented about how the WRs weren't getting open. I'm not saying Beck didn't play shitty because he without a doubt did, but he's played decent until Buffalo. I think the coaching staff need to devise something to counter the OL being decimated. (screen passes, 3 step drops, etc)[/quote]

played good until buffalo? so a little over 1 week?

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=tryfuhl;854485]played good until buffalo? so a little over 1 week?[/quote]

Can you name me one QB in the league that would have fared better in yesterdays game? The only QB I can think of might be Vick with his running ability.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

^ cam newton

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854486]Can you name me one QB in the league that would have fared better in yesterdays game? The only QB I can think of might be Vick with his running ability.[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.afro.com/multimedia/photos/72945/Redskins%20Bills%20Footba_Pars.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;854487]^ cam newton[/quote]

As well as Cam is playing, I don't even think he survives that beat down in Buffalo. Nobody is even remotely as fast as Vick and able to make tacklers whiff like he can.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=tryfuhl;854492][IMG]http://www.afro.com/multimedia/photos/72945/Redskins%20Bills%20Footba_Pars.jpg[/IMG][/quote]


If you are under the impression I think Beck played good yesterday, you are barking up the wrong tree. He played horrible.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854484]I was one of them. Even though we had a bad line, the guy just didn't get it done, even when they did block,.

That said, [B]Beck has done fine up until Sunday's game[/B], but you can't expect a QB to endure that type of punishment all day.[/quote]

[quote=NC_Skins;854486]Can you name me one QB in the league that would have fared better in yesterdays game? The only QB I can think of might be Vick with his running ability.[/quote]

I didn't think he was all that great against Carolina.

A lot of QB's would have done better against Buffalo. Improvement could come from a QB who gets the ball out quickly and who doesn't use his mobility to run into defenders. Beck has poor pocket presence.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

Paging Dirtbag. We need some game film on Beck from this past weekends game. Would be nice. :)

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854484]I was one of them. Even though we had a bad line, the guy just didn't get it done, even when they did block,.

That said, [B]Beck has done fine up until Sunday's game[/B], but you can't expect a QB to endure that type of punishment all day.[/quote]

I think I need a clarification. Could you please discribe when actually Beck was doing fine? Minus Preseason. He's had 2 games. Both games very similar to each other.

1st game- 1 almost INT. 1 actual INT. 1 fumble.

2nd game- 2 INT's. 1 fumble.

Both games similar to the first 4 games of the season under Grossman. I'd prefer Grossman only throwing 2 INT's a game vs. Beck giving up 2 INT's and 1 or more fumbles a game. But thats just me.

Maybe you were refering to the time span between the 1st and 2nd game? or perhaps you were refering to the first 4 games when Beck was on the sideline. Clearly things were going well during that time span.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

It's wont matter who is our QB against SF, have u seen their D? Ouch look for another 17-14 game

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=NC_Skins;854484]I was one of them. Even though we had a bad line, the guy just didn't get it done, even when they did block,.

That said, Beck has done fine up until Sunday's game, but you can't expect a QB to endure that type of punishment all day.[/quote]

Beck got hit so much even Patrick Ramsey felt bad for him.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

I think at this point I'd take one of the CFL QB's over our two who were sitting on the sidelines prior to us hiring them.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

How can you win with journeyman quarterbacks in the first place? Back in training camp after the lockout, I had a negative feeling about the Redskins quarterback situation. When Grossman played in the final 3 games of 2010, he played okay, but not well enough to even be considered a starter going into 2011. And I know how crazy Mike Shanahan was about Beck, but how can you even have a QB compete for a starting job that hadn't played in a regular season game in 4 years?

Very poor evaluations on the head coach who claims to know quarterbacks!!!!!

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

Went back and (painfully) watched the game again. Some general notes:

1. Beck could have avoided some sacks. When he rolled out of the pocket, he should have thrown the ball away on a few occasions. He tool the sack instead. This should get better with playing experience. Only practicing for a few years has given him a false sense of security about his scrambling abilities.

2. The running game could have worked. Torain was starting to hit 4 and 5 yard runs when they abandoned the run altogether. I know we needed to catch up, but we could have gone to a no huddle approach and stick with a balanced attack.

3. Kyle needs to scale back the offense. Injuries are obviously hurting us. To many new pieces, not enough cohesion. Guys running routes wrong, guys blocking wrong, backs missing blocks... these all led to tentative QB play. Looks like Kyle is evaluating players, not trying to win the game. Having Moss, a better security blanket for a QB, in that game would have made a difference.

4. Beck's long ball really sucks. Looks like he is just chucking it up just to say he did. Sometimes it went into double coverage. It was just so far overthrown nobody cared.

5. Defense got run over. It didn't help that they were on the field so much. However, they did limit a 30 pt/game team to 23 pts. Not sure how much to place the blame on them.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=WilbursHomie;854537]Beck got hit so much even Patrick Ramsey felt bad for him.[/quote]

Tip of the hat to you for that line, sir... :thumb:

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

The defense deserves some blame b/c they had a lot of long fields and managed to give them away, always sticking the offense in a bad situation. But the run defense in particular did a lot better than we could have reasonably expected.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=GoSkins!;854565]Went back and (painfully) watched the game again. Some general notes:

1. Beck could have avoided some sacks. When he rolled out of the pocket, he should have thrown the ball away on a few occasions. He tool the sack instead. This should get better with playing experience. Only practicing for a few years has given him a false sense of security about his scrambling abilities.

2. The running game could have worked. Torain was starting to hit 4 and 5 yard runs when they abandoned the run altogether. I know we needed to catch up, but we could have gone to a no huddle approach and stick with a balanced attack.

3. Kyle needs to scale back the offense. Injuries are obviously hurting us. To many new pieces, not enough cohesion. Guys running routes wrong, guys blocking wrong, backs missing blocks... these all led to tentative QB play. Looks like Kyle is evaluating players, not trying to win the game. Having Moss, a better security blanket for a QB, in that game would have made a difference.

4. Beck's long ball really sucks. Looks like he is just chucking it up just to say he did. Sometimes it went into double coverage. It was just so far overthrown nobody cared.

5. Defense got run over. It didn't help that they were on the field so much. However, they did limit a 30 pt/game team to 23 pts. Not sure how much to place the blame on them.[/quote]

Interesting points. Although it was obvious how poor Beck's accuracy is on long balls. He's got to improve markedly in this regard to deserve playtime because if the deep threat is nixed based on the QB the offense CANNOT be successful. Jeez oh man just thinking back to his deep passes makes me cringe! Dude might need contacts or something...

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=SBXVII;854528]1st game- 1 almost INT. 1 actual INT. 1 fumble.

2nd game- 2 INT's. 1 fumble. [/quote]

1 almost INT? You shitting me? Yeah, he almost had 10 TDs that game too. SEE WHAT I DID THERE? Give me a F-N break with that "almost" crap. If that were the case Rex almost had 10 INTs, but only had 4.


1st game - 4 to 5 crucial drops by WRs to kill drives. Including one fumble by WR to end a big drive. WR running wrong route that causes INT.

2nd game - absolutely no blocking to give proper time need. WRs weren't getting open often.


It's more to it than QB play. Carolina game the WRs didn't do their job, and looks like they weren't doing their job again at Buffalo.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

I would dispute the notion that John Beck had 10 almost TDs against Carolina. I'm going to say he didn't get that close to 10 TDs.

Beck's teammates have done a worse job overall that Grossman's teammates. But that's not the be-all-end-all of Beck's performance. Beck faced two of the softest defenses in the NFL this year and currently carries a 62.0 QB rating (EDIT - he actually carries a 69.6 QB rating).

In the best case scenario, Beck isn't a drop-off from Grossman, which means there's probably some regression towards the mean in his future performances. But there's also the very real possibility that Beck really is the 32nd best out of 32 starting quarterbacks, and that nothing is getting better for him anytime soon. Because there's no obvious reason to turn back to Grossman, we'll find out soon enough.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=GTripp0012;854684]I would dispute the notion that John Beck had 10 almost TDs against Carolina. I'm going to say he didn't get that close to 10 TDs.[/quote]


I was being funny with that. Beck hasn't had the luxury that Rex did the first first few games with a full cast and healthy OL. Sure Beck played like absolute shit in Buffalo, but lets give him a couple games before we start calling for Rex to come back. Rex couldn't get it done with a full cast, what makes anybody think he's going to get it done with 5 guys out on the offense? He's not.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

Is anyone arguing we should go back to Rex? Beck sucked, Rex sucked. Is this news to anyone? Move along people, nothing to see here ...

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;854698]Is anyone arguing we should go back to Rex? Beck sucked, Rex sucked. Is this news to anyone? Move along people, nothing to see here ...[/quote]

Yep, fact is we have to accept our QB suckage for this year and hope we can get some competent guys in here next year.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

Rex: the offense moves until it turns the ball over
Beck: like being stuck in the mud without hope of of tow

pick your poison

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=Mattyk;854700]Yep, fact is we have to accept our QB suckage for this year and hope we can get some competent guys in here next year.[/quote]

Some fans just refuse to give up the grass is greener mentality.

"Oh Beck sucks even Rex isn't as bad as this, lets put him back in."

So they put Rex back in, and Rex sucks just as bad.

"Oh I don't remember Beck sucking this bad, lets put him back in."

And on and on until the season is over.

Face it guys, we're gonna give to ride out the season with mediocrity at qb.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=Lotus;854702]Rex: the offense moves until it turns the ball over
Beck: like being stuck in the mud without hope of of tow

pick your poison[/quote]

It's CROMPTON TIME!!! :headbange

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=Lotus;854702]Rex: the offense moves until it turns the ball over
Beck: like being stuck in the mud without hope of of tow

pick your poison[/quote]

Sadly it's the same as it's been before.

Rex: Will get rid of the ball quickly to compensate for his subpar mobility but is money to turn the ball over at least once a game.

Beck: Will hold onto the ball too long and take sacks. Kind of a poor mans Michael Vick. However he is more accurate and slightly less turnover prone then Rex.

With that said Beck has only played 2 1/4 games. Want to see him for another week or two before we go back. However until the running game comes back (read: Trent Williams returns) I'm pretty sure it won't matter who we play at QB. Plus I'm starting to realize how important Santana really was to this offense. His ability to make plays in tight spaces and move the chains is severely under appreciated.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;854710]Sadly it's the same as it's been before.

Rex: Will get rid of the ball quickly to compensate for his subpar mobility but is money to turn the ball over at least once a game.

Beck: Will hold onto the ball too long and take sacks. Kind of a poor mans Michael Vick. However he is more accurate and slightly less turnover prone then Rex.

With that said Beck has only played 2 1/4 games. Want to see him for another week or two before we go back. However until the running game comes back (read: Trent Williams returns) I'm pretty sure it won't matter who we play at QB. Plus I'm starting to realize how important Santana really was to this offense. His ability to make plays in tight spaces and move the chains is severely under appreciated.[/quote]

I think Rex is more accurate with the long ball than Beck.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

Chris Cooley lays the smack down

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/32132/at-long-last-chris-cooley-makes-sense]At long last, Chris Cooley makes sense - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url]

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

^ Chris Cooley....the voice of reason. :thumb:

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

CC speaking the truth.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=SmootSmack;854731]Chris Cooley lays the smack down

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/32132/at-long-last-chris-cooley-makes-sense]At long last, Chris Cooley makes sense - NFC East Blog - ESPN[/url][/quote]


Me and Cooley are on the same page about this.



[quote]1) [U][B]The Fans[/B][/U] - I keep hearing how Redskins fans are some of the most intelligent out of the NFL, but I simply don't see it. (probably same throughout the league) I see a good many who are just as knee jerk reactionary about this team as our lousy owner is. What kills me the most is these same people are probably the same ones bashing Snyder for doing exactly what they are doing. /facepalm[/quote]

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

I've been saying that for years...but I've also been saying as long as management doesn't pay too much attention to the fans then fans can be as impulsive as they want.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

We got our hopes up a little early. It's clear this team doesn't have teh OL depth, the skill at WR or a QB to be more than average. Hopefully we will eke out a few more wins this year but we are gonna need turn overs and a modicum of offensive production to make it happen.

Next year will be better.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

I think only a moron would suggest that MS should be fired. However, I think fans are more upset at the lack of competitiveness that the team has shown in the past three loses.

Rebuilding takes times, but I would really like to see this team put up a fight every Sunday and not lay down on the ground like they did on Sunday.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

It doesn't appear to be the coaching that's the problem. It's the players the coaches have chosen to place on the football field who aren't executing. For two straight games, Ryan Torain hasn't found any room to run the football. It can be assumed that the o-line to some part is not only allowing penetration, but they are not executing their zone blocks well enough to get to the second level in order for the running play to have success. It's due to the players that are on the field.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

I classify Synder's coaches into three categories.

"Big named guys that I won't fire unless I absolutely have to" - Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Steve Spurrier.

"My way or the highway" type guys - Marty and to a lesser extent GW

"Guys that are just happy to be here." - Jim Zorn

The guys in the first category do not get fired before their contract is up or they resign voluntarily. These are the guys that Snyder is infatuated with and very loyal too.

Then theres guys like Marty and GW, who Snyder only respects for their football knowledge but is much more willing to fire them or worst yet, not even hire them.

Anyone who fits the bill for the third category is likely to be on the hot seat sooner then later.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

So far the Shannahans haven't performed better than Steve Spurrier, Norv Turner, Schottenheimer, or Jim Zorn. These guys are a complete joke. This year had a great class of QB's who have all shown promise and expedient progress; Newton, Dalton, Ponder, Locker including Ryan Mallet. And guess what, we didn't get any of them. All of them are much better than what we have now. For Shannahan to miss out on all of them proves that the game has passed him by.

Re: Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition
 

[quote=Shadowbyte;854805]So far the Shannahans haven't performed better than Steve Spurrier, Norv Turner, Schottenheimer, or Jim Zorn. These guys are a complete joke. This year had a great class of QB's who have all shown promise and expedient progress; Newton, Dalton, Ponder, Locker including Ryan Mallet. And guess what, we didn't get any of them. All of them are much better than what we have now. For Shannahan to miss out on all of them proves that the game has passed him by.[/quote]

Shanahan never had a chance at Newton and Locker. They were off the board before we made a selection. Dalton and Ponder are playing on teams that have more playmakers and are more talented than we are. Nobody has seen anything of Ryan Mallet.

But go ahead. Call for the firing of Mike Shanahan. Then give the next guy 23 games before calling for his head.