Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844449]Shame that we're 3-1 sitting here banging our heads against the wall over the starting QB... as usual.[/quote]

Seriously.

Has anybody thought about what happens if Beck is not the answer? I look at Grossman like this:

He makes some good plays (such as Moss' touchdown on 4th down against Arizona), and he makes some bad plays (such as boneheaded interceptions).

Now I look at Beck like this:

He's sat on the bench except for his whole horrible career in Miami. Could he provide better play? Possibly. Could he be just as bad, if not worse? Possibly.

Back to my starting point. If Beck is actually worse than Grossman, then what? Do we put Grossman back in? And then bench him again when he sucks? Do we flip flop all season between two qb's best suited to be backups? If Beck was tearing it up in practice and Grossman kept looking like shit, I don't think Shanahan would hesitate to replace Grossman. But so far Grossman has provided us with good and bad highlights, and he's also 3-1 as a starter.

The time to replace Grossman is when his negatives clearly outweigh his positives. Sorry guys but we're not there yet. And does it matter anyways? Both are over 30, neither are the long term solution, and our starting qb next season is probably playing in the NCAA right now.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844449]Shame that we're 3-1 sitting here banging our heads against the wall over the starting QB... as usual.[/quote]

Can't have QB ratings around 50 for 2 straight weeks. I hate that Rex Grossman is our starting QB, but at 3-1 you kind of have to stand pat.

Given the praise that Beck has gotten from the Shannys, I don't imagine that Rex can have too many more games like that and keep his job. Problem is, what if you bench him and Beck comes in and stinks up the place? Season goes totally down the toilet at that point.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=mooby;844454]
[B]
The time to replace Grossman is when his negatives clearly outweigh his positives.[/B] Sorry guys but we're not there yet. And does it matter anyways? Both are over 30, neither are the long term solution, and our starting qb next season is probably playing in the NCAA right now.[/quote]

He turns it over way too much. 14 turnovers in his last 7 starts. That's bad. Really bad.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

One interception yesterday and one against Arizona were not his fault...but yes he does turn it over

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;844456]He turns it over way too much. 14 turnovers in his last 7 starts. That's bad. Really bad.[/quote]

Yeah but that's one side of the equation. Grossman has also made plays that have contributed to the games we've won. How do we know Beck is capable of making those plays? All Beck has so far in his career is negative plays, and he didn't exactly booster Shanny's confidence in him by tearing it up during the preseason either.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

The prospect of....musical QB rotation is...not awesome. Stand pat...for now.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=mooby;844460]Yeah but that's one side of the equation. Grossman has also made plays that have contributed to the games we've won. How do we know Beck is capable of making those plays? All Beck has so far in his career is negative plays, and he didn't exactly booster Shanny's confidence in him by tearing it up during the preseason either.[/quote]

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not an advocate for either QB. Since we have to have one of them under center, I still lean towards Rex... for now.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;844462]I guess what I'm saying is I'm not an advocate for either QB. Since we have to have one of them under center, I still lean towards Rex... for now.[/quote]

I'm not either. I'm an advocate for Shanny finding his own elite young playcaller in the draft in the offseason. When Grossman starts screwing up left and right and can't drive the team down the field or score touchdowns, that's when I'll advocate pulling him. But it's not like we have a known quantity at backup, so we might just be wasting this good start to the season if we do that.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=53Fan;844439]Right now I'd rather see KS change some of the plays he calls than see a QB change.[/quote]

I really don't care either way 53. In fact I think they should stick with Grossman all the way thru the season since he was made the starter but I would also would not be surprised or upset if the change was made.

I am actually interested to see how Beck would play to be honest. It's not like Grossman will be taking us all the way. He's already shown that he is very limited and inconsistent.

If anything, he will break our hearts post season at best.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

again, he's an average QB, and beck would probably be worse.

we didn't get hasslebeck, so we've got to wait until the draft/FA to fix it, but we knew that going in, so i don't know why some people are soo surprised or panicking now.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844449]Shame that we're 3-1 sitting here banging our heads against the wall over the starting QB... as usual.[/quote]

When you lose to a beat up lame ass Cowboys team and barely beat the crapless Rams, their is legitimate grounds for concern. Unless of course one is short sighted. 3-1 yes, convincingly no.

The team is playing great. Grossman, not so great so far. I don't see a problem with anyone wanting Beck at this time.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;844472]When you lose to a beat up lame ass Cowboys team and barely beat the crapless Rams, their is legitimate grounds for concern. Unless of course one is short sighted. 3-1 yes, convincingly no.

The team is playing great. Grossman, not so great so far. I don't see a problem with anyone wanting Beck at this time.[/quote]


Honestly even though I thought Beck played better in the preseason, I can still see the other side's point. We know what we will get from Rex; we have no idea what we will get from Beck. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;843466]I don't think Shanny should yank Rex, I just wanted to get the silly thread going and out of the way.[/quote]

I see this thread is still chugging along just fine 12th :FIREdevil

Rex brings it on himself

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844208]Neither Rex or Beck are the long term answers here anyway. Might as well ride Rex as long as we're winning. Makes no sense to make a change right now.[/quote]

[quote=Schneed10;844331]Couldn't have said it better. Shanahan did the right thing this past offseason, purge the team of the old culture, bring in a strong and deep surrounding cast that works with his system. It builds the foundation. Now he can go get the QB of the future who can come into a half decent situation.

Neither Rex nor Beck are going to win us a SB.[/quote]

Agreed 100% x 2.

I think the whole Rex-Beck competition was a hoax from the get go. They did it to take the pressure off QB at the draft, and to keep the fans from starting threads similar to this.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;844482]Agreed 100% x 2.

I think the whole Rex-Beck competition was a hoax from the get go. They did it to take the pressure off QB at the draft, and to keep the fans from starting threads similar to this.[/quote]

They don't care what the hell we think. Shanahan might be deceptive about a lot of things, but competition is most certainly NOT one of those things.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=mooby;844460]Yeah but that's one side of the equation. Grossman has also made plays that have contributed to the games we've won. How do we know Beck is capable of making those plays? All Beck has so far in his career is negative plays, and he didn't exactly booster Shanny's confidence in him by tearing it up during the preseason either.[/quote]

How do we know Beck isn't capable of making those plays, more plays, or better decisions if we never give him the opportunity to prove himself in a live game format with consequences.

I understand why the people here want to ride Grossman until the wheels fall off. It's the same conservative football mentality that has permeated this franchise and its fan base for the past decade. They're the same people who are complaining that we should run the ball more when we're 6th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

As the saying goes "fortune favors the bold", not fortune favors the prudent.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;844490][B]How do we know Beck isn't capable of making those plays, more plays, or better decisions if we never give him the opportunity to prove himself in a live game format with consequences.[/B]

I understand why the people here want to ride Grossman until the wheels fall off. It's the same conservative football mentality that has permeated this franchise and its fan base for the past decade. They're the same people who are complaining that we should run the ball more when we're 6th in the NFL in rushing attempts.

As the saying goes "fortune favors the bold", not fortune favors the prudent.[/quote]

And how do you know that Beck CAN do those things? Answer: you don't.

The fact is, neither Grossman nor Beck are the answer in the end. When it comes to QB play this year, we must grin and bear the situation.

But since some here would like to blindly change QB's, I reinstate my call for Jon Crompton. How do we know that he isn't the next Dan Marino?

Start Crompton Now! Start Crompton Now! Rocky Top for the Win!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844449]Shame that we're 3-1 sitting here banging our heads against the wall over the starting QB... as usual.[/quote]


I'm stoked! 3-1 can't complain.. I just said if they do go w Beck why not? He's prob as good as rex anyway

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;843523]So if we're 3-1, then what's the justification for bringing in Beck?[/quote]

14 turnovers on 7 starts for Redskins. In a system that he says he is so great in. Not the kind of great I want as our starter. Time to try Beck.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

What if he is worse and he sets us back a couple of weeks by losing games. This could also effect team unity and our momentum in a negative manner.

I do not like Rex, but he has us where we are even though it may be in spite of him. At the same time he has made some nice throws, and particularly in his touchdown throws.

Would Beck make those throws and would he even get us in the position to F it up in the RZ?

I know from what i have seen of the guy, he is worse then Rex at creating ints. I have a buddy who is a Miami fan and I watched his games for the Dolphins a few years ago. He was awful, and if the defense is creating pressure he is not good.

Why do you guys think we got him for Doug Dutch?

Well it's just too bad we didn't get Kyle Orton...who has 13 turnovers in his last 7 starts

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;844489]They don't care what the hell we think. Shanahan might be deceptive about a lot of things, but competition is most certainly NOT one of those things.[/quote]

Bulls-eye!!! One thing you can be sure about is Mike not giving two sh!ts what people think.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844409]There is a significant difference between "What has Rex done lately?" and "What has Beck ever done?"[/quote]

The decision was made to go with Grossman and Shanahan should stand by his decision until/unless he becomes convinced he cannot win with him, or he get's injured.

I'm convinced before the season is over there's going to be more Grossman vs. Beck discussions. Imagine what this discussion would be like had we actually lost to the Rams and Grossman's two picks were the culprit. The fact we won the game is the main reason why there aren't more fans calling for Beck.....the most popular guy on the team......:)

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844527]Well it's just too bad we didn't get Kyle Orton...who has 13 turnovers in his last 7 starts[/quote]

yeah. Would be nice to have Hasselback, till he gets banged up that is.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Maybe Vinny Testaverde is out there?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

LMAO.... can't believe I would even type this, but you know we do have two weeks to get Ol' Brett Farve ready to go against Philly. :)

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844527]Well it's just too bad we didn't get Kyle Orton...who has 13 turnovers in his last 7 starts[/quote]

HEY!!! You leave Orton out of this

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;844502]And how do you know that Beck CAN do those things? Answer: you don't.

The fact is, neither Grossman nor Beck are the answer in the end. When it comes to QB play this year, we must grin and bear the situation.

But since some here would like to blindly change QB's, I reinstate my call for Jon Crompton. How do we know that he isn't the next Dan Marino?

Start Crompton Now! Start Crompton Now! Rocky Top for the Win![/quote]

Read, and retain. Read, and retain. Not a difficult process. Whether he can or he can't get it done, as we know him now, is not the issue. It's nebulous. The point is to put him in a situation where you can clearly define whether he can or can't get it done.

And what "some here" are proposing is not completely absurd. Beck atleast knows the offense. I realize you're just trying your hand at humor, but Crompton? C'mon dude.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;844560]Read, and retain. Read, and retain. Not a difficult process. Whether he can or he can't get it done, as we know him now, is not the issue. It's nebulous. [B]The point is to put him in a situation where you can clearly define whether he can or can't get it done.[/B]

And what "some here" are proposing is not completely absurd. Beck atleast knows the offense. I realize you're just trying your hand at humor, but Crompton? C'mon dude.[/quote]

That's what the preseason is for and Beck really did not get it done that well.

I am no Rex apologist. He makes me cringe often.

But the "let's throw Beck out there and see what happens" argument that you are making is absurd. First, we could be worse off and thereby squander our hard-bought early gains. Second, Shanny sees Beck every day in practice and therefore has a fair idea what he can do, so Shanny has no reason to throw things against the wall to see what sticks. Third, the "let's see what happens" argument can be applied to others on the roster. It is also coherent to argue that we don't know what Crompton would do so we should throw him out there. Heck, one could argue as well that we should throw Doughty out there as QB - he's never been tested by fire in that role, either.

You do not seem to appreciate how absurd the "let's just throw Beck in there and see what happens" argument is.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Rex.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;844609]That's what the preseason is for and Beck really did not get it done that well.

I am no Rex apologist. He makes me cringe often.

But the "let's throw Beck out there and see what happens" argument that you are making is absurd. First, we could be worse off and thereby squander our hard-bought early gains. Second, Shanny sees Beck every day in practice and therefore has a fair idea what he can do, so Shanny has no reason to throw things against the wall to see what sticks. Third, the "let's see what happens" argument can be applied to others on the roster. It is also coherent to argue that we don't know what Crompton would do so we should throw him out there. Heck, one could argue as well that we should throw Doughty out there as QB - he's never been tested by fire in that role, either.

You do not seem to appreciate how absurd the "let's just throw Beck in there and see what happens" argument is.[/quote]

Yet again you bungle the point by taking it to extreme levels of absurdity. Beck is a guy, at the QB position, who has been in the system, with offensive playbook in hand, for 1 year and 3 months now. He is a guy who understands the system, and convinsingly owns the backup role on this squad. He was in an open QB competition vying for the starting role with Rex Grossman this offseason. It is highly debatable, in my opinion, that Grossman out played Beck to the point where he dominated the competition so conclusively that he won the job unquestionably. To deminish his role with such emphatic asininity, to the point where you would juxtapose Beck with Doughty at the QB position, is more of a slap in the the face to the Shanahans and their personnel decisions then I could ever make with a simple plea to see a guy play in a game scenario before the verdict has been rendered. I'm content waiting for Grossman to continue to make the same mistakes, because with every one Beck inches closer to his shot. He may flop, he may be average, he may impress. I don't know. I never claimed to. But I atleast have enough faith in the Shanahans to believe that they consider their backup good enough to keep him one injury away from starting.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

lol John Beck... We are 3-1 and people are screaming for a QB change.. I could only imagine what Redskin Nation would be doing right now if we were 1-3

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If we were 1-3, we could very well be looking at Beck starting against Philly, especially if the losses could be directly attributed to Rex turnovers.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If Grossman was the changed QB he keeps repeating to himself We would have beaten those CowBoys! And if you can't see that well I'm sorry but its true!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;844623]Yet again you bungle the point by taking it to extreme levels of absurdity. Beck is a guy, at the QB position, who has been in the system, with offensive playbook in hand, for 1 year and 3 months now. He is a guy who understands the system, and convinsingly owns the backup role on this squad. He was in an open QB competition vying for the starting role with Rex Grossman this offseason. It is highly debatable, in my opinion, that Grossman out played Beck to the point where he dominated the competition so conclusively that he won the job unquestionably. To deminish his role with such emphatic asininity, to the point where you would juxtapose Beck with Doughty at the QB position, is more of a slap in the the face to the Shanahans and their personnel decisions then I could ever make with a simple plea to see a guy play in a game scenario before the verdict has been rendered. I'm content waiting for Grossman to continue to make the same mistakes, because with every one Beck inches closer to his shot. He may flop, he may be average, he may impress. I don't know. I never claimed to. But I atleast have enough faith in the Shanahans to believe that they consider their backup good enough to keep him one injury away from starting.[/quote]


wow...I can't believe you two are arguing back and forth about a QB and team that is 3-1. Skins fans can never be happy without controversy.

To your point about Beck being in the system and knowing it after 1yr 3months. Rex has 3 years in the system and I would bet he has a better handle on it than Beck. The backup QB is the best position in football. He is the savior, the man, that is until the starter goes down and he steps in and shits on himself. Then it is well he is a backup what do you expect. Look, Rex is starting because he is the better of the two. Shanny has had two years of these guys on the roster, watching them practice and watching game film. I think they know who is better and who gives us a better chance to win.

Of the 5 INT's, how many of them should have been caught? 3 or 4 right.. So, if the WR catches the ball, are we even having this discussion. NOPE. So go and watch the games again, Rex isn't playing that bad.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I refuse to consider a QB change at 3-1. That would be ridiculous!

Rex won the job and, since then, he hasn't done anything to lose it. We know who he is as a QB. He can be streaky and he turns the ball over a little more than we would like. I can live with that as long as he keeps "Bad Rex" bottled up for the most part.

Who is John Beck, anyway? It's not like we have Matthew Stafford sitting on the bench.

Besides, as I've said all along, we don't have our franchise QB on the team yet. In the meantime, Rex is doing a good job for us. Go Rex!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;844472]When you lose to a beat up lame ass Cowboys team and barely beat the crapless Rams, their is legitimate grounds for concern. Unless of course one is short sighted. 3-1 yes, convincingly no.

The team is playing great. Grossman, not so great so far. I don't see a problem with anyone wanting Beck at this time.[/quote]

Who cares about convincingly?! Style points only count in college football.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844449]Shame that we're 3-1 sitting here banging our heads against the wall over the starting QB... as usual.[/quote]

Well I think most fans are happy that we're 3-1. But I also think most fans realize that we barely beat a really bad football team. And the reason was cause of the offense. The Rams flat out dropped a pick six. Going to need more out of the QB position in order to beat better teams.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=irish;844641]Who cares about convincingly?! Style points only count in college football.[/quote]

Well if you look at his performance against Dallas, had he converted just 1 time in the RZ we would have won that game. Any average starting QB in the league given the same opportunity would have at least converted 1 in such a important game. It's a shame because everyone else around him played pretty decent, the D played more than decent holding Romo to zero. What more can a QB ask for?

Further, nobody is crying for a QB change, I don't see that at all. Most that are for Beck are content on allowing Rex to continue but would not object to seeing Beck. We are also hoping Rex has a great season.

Honestly, if Rex goes down and Beck is brought in and plays solid, I would bet those of you who are "Rex or nothing" would not want him back when healthy.

It's really a wait and see for me as I am good either way.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=44ever;844670]Well if you look at his performance against Dallas, had he converted just 1 time in the RZ we would have won that game. Any average starting QB in the league given the same opportunity would have at least converted 1 in such a important game. It's a shame because everyone else around him played pretty decent, the D played more than decent holding Romo to zero. What more can a QB ask for?

Further, nobody is crying for a QB change, I don't see that at all. Most that are for Beck are content on allowing Rex to continue but would not object to seeing Beck. We are also hoping Rex has a great season.

Honestly, if Rex goes down and Beck is brought in and plays solid, I would bet those of you who are "[B]Rex or nothing[/B]" would not want him back when healthy.

It's really a wait and see for me as I am good either way.[/quote]

Do we actually have this? I believe the "Rex" people are more the...."as long as we're winning" people (as in don't rock the boat). Myself included. IF he should crash....injured.......contract diptheria, and JB comes in and plays well? I think we will all become once again "as long as we're winning" for Beck fans.