Re: Now What??
 

[quote=redskins4lif;597064]i think its time for zorn to go. his play calling the redzone is awful, he doesnt run the ball which i think this team is built to do and last play of the game why not take a shot at the end zone[/quote]

dude...he stopped running the ball because that is all he did in the first game and we could not move the ball for shit. Last two games we haven't scored but total offense has been pretty decent. Should the playcalling be better/more balanced...yes? Should we blame Campbell, hell no...he carved up Detroit today.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=SBXVII;597452]The problem is firing Cerrato does not fix the offensive issues. It would only help us next yr. It would not help us right now. It's a start yes but won't fix our issues right now.[/quote]

Cerrato needs to be let go and there needs to be an emphasis that Cerrato #2 not be waiting in the wings to take over.

The next player personnel man needs to be a man like Marty Schott who says "If the owner attempts to alter the roster or influence it then pay me the rest of my contract because you will have just fired me"

Remember when Marty had that clause in his contract? That guy was before his time. Snyder couldn't stomach that for more than a season though...that mark ass buster!

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597464]Cerrato needs to be let go and there needs to be an emphasis that Cerrato #2 not be waiting in the wings to take over.

The next player personnel man needs to be a man like Marty Schott who says "If the owner attempts to alter the roster or influence it then pay me the rest of my contract because you will have just fired me"

Remember when Marty had that clause in his contract? That guy was before his time. Snyder couldn't stomach that for more than a season though...that mark ass buster![/quote]

I think you're putting a lot of faith on Dan Snyder changing his ways...I hope it does, realisticly I doubt this will happen.

Re: Now What??
 

wow The last guy that called the Radio had a point...Maybe Collins should be the starter.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=pg86;597468]wow The last guy that called the Radio had a point...Maybe Collins should be the starter.[/quote]

Huh?

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Ruhskins;597472]Huh?[/quote]

Yeah I really don't get those that insist on continuing to blame JC. I think it's quite clear our problems run much deeper than QB. JC has been one of our few bright spots this season.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;597437]I think I would react to this loss by seeing if Holmgren would come in as an advisor and release Blache(this may be kneejerk and I reserve the right to rescind this statement by Tuesday) as the sacrificial lamb from this debacle.[/quote]

My only question is why are we firing Blache? I presume you are bringing in Holmgren to help Zorn on the offensive side of the ball. Unless I'm missing something and Holmgren is a defensive coach? Why fire Blache at this point? Unless you have his replacement.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=pg86;597468]wow The last guy that called the Radio had a point...Maybe Collins should be the starter.[/quote]

Does this post sound eerily familiar to anyone else? :D

Re: Now What??
 

I don't think firing anyone is the answer right now.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=pg86;597468]wow The last guy that called the Radio had a point...Maybe Collins should be the starter.[/quote]

You're the least of our problems Todd.

Go campaign for a starting spot somewhere else man...this is all about the hurt & mourning.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597464]Cerrato needs to be let go and there needs to be an emphasis that Cerrato #2 not be waiting in the wings to take over.

The next player personnel man needs to be a man like Marty Schott who says "If the owner attempts to alter the roster or influence it then pay me the rest of my contract because you will have just fired me"

Remember when Marty had that clause in his contract? That guy was before his time. Snyder couldn't stomach that for more than a season though...that mark ass buster![/quote]

Let me try this another way.....

How does firing Cerrato now help us out now? What will it do to change our enemic offense? and our lack of a pass rush by our defense? or help out the secondary?

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=pg86;597468]wow The last guy that called the Radio had a point...Maybe Collins should be the starter.[/quote]

Ok, thanks for sharing. I'm not listening to the radio so this was a random statement. Unless you care to share what they were talking about. So we can have a decent discussion.

I'm not busting your balls cause I too would like to see Collins for my own reasons.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;597473]Yeah I really don't get those that insist on continuing to blame JC. I think it's quite clear our problems run much deeper than QB. JC has been one of our few bright spots this season.[/quote]


I agree......

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=SBXVII;597499]Let me try this another way.....

How does firing Cerrato now help us out now? What will it do to change our enemic offense? and our lack of a pass rush by our defense? or help out the secondary?[/quote]

It doesn't...

We need a come to Jesus moment and we need Snyder to repent hardcore. Nobody said it had to be easy. We have to undo what's been done and that will take a through cleaning of the previous mess.

We just lost to the lions so the expectations for this year certainly are not great. Blow up the front office now...there won't be another draft for 8 months...we should be good.

What's the worst that can happen...we lose to the lions?

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597514]It doesn't...

[B]We need a come to Jesus moment and we need Snyder to repent hardcore. Nobody said it had to be easy. We have to undo what's been done and that will take a through cleaning of the previous mess.[/B]

We just lost to the lions so the expectations for this year certainly are not great. Blow up the front office now...there won't be another draft for 8 months...we should be good.

What's the worst that can happen...we lose to the lions?[/quote]

Man, and I though I was very optimistic about things.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Ruhskins;597521]Man, and I though I was very optimistic about things.[/quote]

We could go with your live demo-ops plan I guess?

Either way it will be difficult and messy : )

Re: Now What??
 

NOw What? Well we have 13 more game and maybe we have seen the worse and things will turn around next week. The 1st half looked really bad after the first drive but the team came back and truned things around.

Re: Now What??
 

We are never going to get anywhere with spending big money on one or two players, trading away draft picks, and not addressing our weak spots, and we have no depth. We need to start by getting rid of Cerrato. I give credit to Synder because he wants this team to win, but he brought down this franchise over the past 10 years, and its going to take awhile to turn this ship around, its not gonna happen over night.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597525]We could go with your live demo-ops plan I guess?

Either way it will be difficult and messy : )[/quote]

Come to think of it, I think my "start from scratch" plan also depends on Snyder changing his ways....I guess I'm being delusional.

Re: Now What??
 

if Greg williams was the coach, this team should be in better position

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=bertoskins2;597529]if Greg williams was the coach, this team should be in better position[/quote]

No, they wouldn't.

Re: Now What??
 

And by the way.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4509616]Source: Washington Redskins coach Jim Zorn safe ... for now - ESPN[/url]

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=bertoskins2;597529]if Greg williams was the coach, this team should be in better position[/quote]


Or Marvin Lewis

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=pg86;597191]Ok lmao WHICH ONE OF YOU JUST CALLED triple X....


IT IS JIM ZORNS FAULT YOU FOOL Dan snyder is just the man who signs the checks

He is not cut out to be a head coach and you know it come on why else wouldnt they give him the Job in Seattle[/quote]

Dan Snyder is also just the man who hired him.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=bertoskins2;597529]if Greg williams was the coach, this team should be in better position[/quote]

He at least has enough previous NFL coaching experience to fill out his coaching ranks and then be accountable for the people that he brought in.

Not this mix and match crap where Zorn isn't even monitoring or managing the defensive players.

The mix and match coaching ranks is an atrocity!...effing ridiculous that it is even considered and then executed on an NFL team.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;597473]Yeah I really don't get those that insist on continuing to blame JC. I think it's quite clear our problems run much deeper than QB. JC has been one of our few bright spots this season.[/quote]

I agree!!

I am not stat happy like some people.

But check this out: [url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/player]NFL Stats: Player[/url]

Doesn't really mean anything unless you put up some TDs but he is obviously moving the ball.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;597473]Yeah I really don't get those that insist on continuing to blame JC. I think it's quite clear our problems run much deeper than QB. JC has been one of our few bright spots this season.[/quote]

He is the QB of an offense that can't score points. He is a small part of the problem.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597514]It doesn't...

We need a come to Jesus moment and we need Snyder to repent hardcore. Nobody said it had to be easy. We have to undo what's been done and that will take a through cleaning of the previous mess.

We just lost to the lions so the expectations for this year certainly are not great. Blow up the front office now...there won't be another draft for 8 months...we should be good.

What's the worst that can happen...we lose to the lions?[/quote]

If your looking to fix the problem at the moment I can tell you it's not Vinny. Our issues right now stem from the HC down. I think we have talented players on this roster. I think they could and should be playing as good or better then the other teams in our division. Unfortunatly we are not and the question is why? Apparently the HC does not have the answer. So at this point I would bring in Holmgren cause Zorn is a product of Holmgren. Perhaps Holmgren can point out to Zorn where the issues lie. Perhaps he can help him with his play calling. Perhaps its Zorn himself. Holmgren needs to be able to inform DS where the problems lie.

As for JC? I'm done. His time limit has come and gone for me. I like him as a person. He's nice but his issues still remain:

He locks on to his receivers
He throws to the wrong receivers not the one open
I still think he can't read defenses
He only trusts 3 people on this team(Cooley, Portis, Moss)
He doesn't pump fake anywhere else to throw off the D

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=skinsfan69;597545]He is the QB of an offense that can't score points. He is a small part of the problem.[/quote]

Yep especially when players drop passes in the redzone and our redzone playcalling is suspect. Not to mention our O-line. I would put emphasis on "small part". Jesus could be our QB and some people wouldn't be happy...lol

That's a joke of course..lol

Re: Now What??
 

We're deep enough on the defense so that there should be options for a good coordiator to bench the non-contributors.

You pretty much have to take the offense at face value. You have a QB who can get the ball down the field for yards, but has only 3 TD passes in 3 weeks. The team only has one rushing TD in that timeframe, so it's not like if Campbell is just getting a poor proportion of the team's TD production. He actually has 75% of it.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=SBXVII;597551]As for JC? I'm done. His time limit has come and gone for me. I like him as a person. He's nice but his issues still remain:

He locks on to his receivers
He throws to the wrong receivers not the one open
I still think he can't read defenses
He only trusts 3 people on this team(Cooley, Portis, Moss)
He doesn't pump fake anywhere else to throw off the D[/quote]But, considering you didn't mention any of the things that Campbell is actually struggling with, can we just assume you're guessing in the dark?

Re: Now What??
 

After getting eviscerated by the NBC Sunday night crew, Peter King says Zorn is not on the hotseat- they'd have to find three coaches to fill his three positions (Head and QB coach/playcaller).

Rodney Harrison said he doesn't understand what the Skins see in JC. Dungy doesn't put it all on JC, but thinks it's definitely a systemic issue within the organization. Patrick called us a fantasy team. Par for the course...

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=SBXVII;597551]If your looking to fix the problem at the moment I can tell you it's not Vinny. [B]Our issues right now stem from the HC down. I think we have talented players on this roster. [/B]I think they could and should be playing as good or better then the other teams in our division. Unfortunatly we are not and the question is why? Apparently the HC does not have the answer. So at this point I would bring in Holmgren cause Zorn is a product of Holmgren. Perhaps Holmgren can point out to Zorn where the issues lie. Perhaps he can help him with his play calling. Perhaps its Zorn himself. Holmgren needs to be able to inform DS where the problems lie.

As for JC? I'm done. His time limit has come and gone for me. I like him as a person. He's nice but his issues still remain:

He locks on to his receivers
He throws to the wrong receivers not the one open
I still think he can't read defenses
He only trusts 3 people on this team(Cooley, Portis, Moss)
He doesn't pump fake anywhere else to throw off the D[/quote]

IMO we just don't have the players. We've had this group now for a while....Moss, Portis, Cooley, JC, Carter, ARE, Daniels, Griff, Landry, Samuels, Thomas, Rabach, Rogers, Smoot, Rocky...these for the most part are our core players and since they've been on the team we've been average to below average.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=GTripp0012;597562][B]We're deep enough on the defense so that there should be options for a good coordiator to bench the non-contributors.[/B]

You pretty much have to take the offense at face value. You have a QB who can get the ball down the field for yards, but has only 3 TD passes in 3 weeks. The team only has one rushing TD in that timeframe, so it's not like if Campbell is just getting a poor proportion of the team's TD production. He actually has 75% of it.[/quote]

Who?????? Are you going to bench Rogers and put in Smoot or Tryon? Maybe put in Jarmon over Daniels but he was in there today and didn't get any pressure.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=itvnetop;597566]After getting eviscerated by the NBC Sunday night crew, Peter King says Zorn is not on the hotseat- they'd have to find three coaches to fill his three positions (Head and QB coach/playcaller).

Rodney Harrison said he doesn't understand what the Skins see in JC. Dungy doesn't put it all on JC, but thinks it's definitely a systemic issue within the organization. Patrick called us a fantasy team. Par for the course...[/quote]


Just finished watching that as well. thought Dungys' take was spot on.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=skinsfan69;597264]Who do we have that is a top pass rusher? No one. Blitzing wasn't the way to go cause our corners were having trouble anyway. Coaching on the defense wasn't the problem today. It was the players. And even though the defense struggled today they kept us in the game the 2nd half. It's the offense where I place the blame. Scoring 9 and 14 points against two of the worst teams in the NFL is unacceptable.[/quote]

When you have a pass rush(blitz or not) it HELPS the corners(DB's). Our schemes for rushing the QB is so basic, it isnt fooling anyone. Blache is still stuck in the 80's, the game has passed him. Coaching is the problem, the DB's are still playing 10 yards off the WR's. And I see the offensive problems as 2 parts....1)our O-line is bad, Heyer shouldnt be a starter in this league, and 2)Zorns pathetic playcalling.

We need to blow this up, bring in Holmgren(or one of the others) give him TOTAL control of the team. Fire Zorn(or demote to QB coach), fire Cerrato...this needed to happen a long time ago. Snyder needs to pay the bills and keep his nose out of the rest. Fire Blache, and promote Jerry Gray. If his schemes arent any better, start looking for a young defensive coordinator at the end of the season.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;597555]Yep especially when players drop passes in the redzone and our redzone playcalling is suspect. Not to mention our O-line. I would put emphasis on "small part".[/quote]

I think the problems are everywhere. The question is why is it everywhere? We knew we had WR and O-line issues. It appeared we may have solved some of the issues concerning both problems. Only to find out we can't run to the right (which let me remind you was Heyers issue, he can't run block) and we can't get the WR's the ball. I blame Bugel and Hixon for these issues. Now maybe it's Zorn's plays that suck, I don't know. If your a HC and you know you have these issues you find a way to develope plays that will fix these issues. Maybe that's why I'm not a HC. In the end you play to your strength. In the past its been the run, but we suck at the run now so he better find a way to get the blocking fixed or find a way to get the WR's the ball.

I'll ask what I asked last week ....why do other teams make it look easy to get their WR's the ball and we have such difficulty? I don't think it's all the O-line or all the QB or all the WR's fault. I think it has something to do with how our WR's are being trained to run their routes. Hixon. The O-line issues are possibly how they are being trained how to block. Bugel. I mean if the players are not executing the scheme find a scheme they can execute or cut them.

Re: Now What??
 

I'm letting my emotions sidetrack my common sense...everyone has to be held accountable as someone said, and I agree with that. But Vinnie C. is part of the problem, Dan Snyder is part of the problem, and so is the entire coaching staff. There are no easy solutions to this mess.

PS: I'm changing my avatar!

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=skinsfan69;597575]Who?????? Are you going to bench Rogers and put in Smoot or Tryon? Maybe put in Jarmon over Daniels but he was in there today and didn't get any pressure.[/quote]Smoot should be on the field never. Rogers and Hall can start at the corners for all I care, but if you bring someone off the bench in a package, make it Barnes or Tryon.

I'd just move Orakpo to RE at this point. I like Carter, and I think he's a good player, but if you need to bring him off the bench to have your best talent on the field, so be it. Daniels and Golston aren't helping right now.

The secondary may or may not be able to match up with anybody the whole year, but we don't have to let people take 8:00 minutes to drive down the field. We can try some cover two shell to take some pressure off of the corners, or you can go for broke and play cover zero with the corners having deep responsibilty. Cover one and three just don't seem to work for this personnel. Man has been a little bit better, but we can either man-blitz, or play tighter underneath coverage.

Sure, we might give up more points, but the offense needs to get on the field more than three times a half. If we're really not a good defense, let's not keep delaying the inevitable.

Re: Now What??
 

I still think the D is the strength of our team. Look at the first 2 weeks if the O scores 20-25 points and keeps the d off the field so much we are 3-0