Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

The ball moved a bit on Clement's TD but I feel like they got it right that's how it should be called. He still maintained control. Problem is we've seen too many plays like that get overturned. Stop with this idea every catch needs to be pristine.

With Ertz he was 110% a runner when he dove. I don't know what the confusion was all about.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1188018]Yeah I'm not even sure the rule itself needs to change that much.
They just need to be consistent in the way they apply the rule, and don't overturn the call on the field unless you really have something clear.
I like the stand on the Clement's TD.

On the Ertz TD, announcers made fools of themselves, they got confused with the rule that a receiver CATCHING THE BALL GOING TO THE GROUND must maintain control of the ball all the way through.
But Ertz didn't caught the ball going to the ground, he caught the ball, took several steps, and THEN went to the ground.
That is the difference between this and the Jesse James play which was a good overturn with the rule as it's written now. Maybe there's something that needs to change there.[/quote]

The NFL needs to go back to the rule the way it was before, stop with this shit that the [B]ball has to survive the ground[/B] rule or that the [B]receiver has to make a football move[/B]. It leaves too much to the interpretation of the ref and the replay.
If a player catches the ball in the field of play and gets two feet or equivalent down in the field of play, it is a reception. If he loses it when he hits the ground and no defender is touching him, it is a free live ball = fumble.
If a defender knocks the ball out of his hands before he makes a so called football move, that is also a fumble. Not an incompletion.
The Jessie James TD should have been TD by a rule that has existed in football since football was first created. Jessie caught the ball and his left foot and right knee touch the ground while he possessed the ball. It was a catch right there.
It wasn't until after he stretched the ball over the goal line that he bobbled it.
The play should have ended when he stretched and broke the plane of the end zone, regardless that he bobbled it after and repossessed it.

Same thing when a receiver catches a ball in the end zone and has two feet down on the ground, the play is over right there. Ref blows the whistle The play is over! Stop with it must survive the ground.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1188020]The ball moved a bit on Clement's TD but I feel like they got it right that's how it should be called. He still maintained control. Problem is we've seen too many plays like that get overturned. Stop with this idea every catch needs to be pristine.

With Ertz he was 110% a runner when he dove. I don't know what the confusion was all about.[/quote]
Remember the days when "the ground can not cause a fumble" it was that fucking simple.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1188025]The NFL needs to go back to the rule the way it was before, stop with this shit that the [B]ball has to survive the ground[/B] rule or that the [B]receiver has to make a football move[/B]. It leaves too much to the interp[U][/U]retation of the ref and the replay.
If a player catches the ball in the field of play and gets two feet or equivalent down in the field of play, it is a reception. If he loses it when he hits the ground and no defender is touching him, it is a free live ball = fumble.
If a defender knocks the ball out of his hands before he makes a so called football move, that is also a fumble. Not an incompletion.
The Jessie James TD should have been TD by a rule that has existed in football since football was first created. Jessie caught the ball and his left foot and right knee touch the ground while he possessed the ball. It was a catch right there.
It wasn't until after he stretched the ball over the goal line that he bobbled it.
The play should have ended when he stretched and broke the plane of the end zone, regardless that he bobbled it after and repossessed it.

Same thing when a receiver catches a ball in the end zone and has two feet down on the ground, the play is over right there. Ref blows the whistle The play is over! Stop with it must survive the ground.[/quote]

Maybe we can agree on your definition of the catch. Though I think it would need to be detailed just a little bit more.

Wouldn't it create quite a bump in fumbles called ?

Anyway I think the "control of the ball" part of the rule inherently introduces a time element. You control the ball because it doesn't move for a certain amount of time. Even if it's a fraction of a second. I don't see how the time element could be entirely dismissed.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1188019][B]I dont see how you can agree with the Jesse James catch but thought the Clement's ruling was ok?[/B] Ball was obviously moving,that should have been a no catch under the current rule the way they have called it this year,but the rule is so fucking confusing,no consistency whatsoever,so no wonder it's confusing to the announcers,and the Ertz catch I thought was a catch and run,but I can see why Collingsworth could be confused after he couldnt believe the Clements call stood.
[/quote]

For me (and again as the rule is written now, not saying the rule is perfect) it's simple:

-On the Jesse James overturned TD, he catches the ball going to the ground, and the ball moves [B]when it hits the ground [/B]. On replay, it's conclusive. You can't argue that the ball did not move. You can argue it didn't move much, but it did move when it hit the ground, he lost control of the ball because of the ground. Conclusive evidence = overturn the call.

-On the Clement's TD, the ball never hits the ground, it's in an awkward position but [B]you can argue about wether he had control or not[/B]. Remember you can control the ball with you butt and you ear, doesn't matter. So I agree you can say he lost control before setting 2 feet a second time, but [B]it's not conclusive[/B]. Because you can also argue about it. So I like the fact the call stand.

I just wished they were more consistent on letting call stand when nothing's conclusive.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[QUOTE=FrenchSkin;1188051]For me (and again as the rule is written now, not saying the rule is perfect) it's simple:



-On the Jesse James overturned TD, he catches the ball going to the ground, and the ball moves [B]when it hits the ground [/B]. On replay, it's conclusive. You can't argue that the ball did not move. You can argue it didn't move much, but it did move when it hit the ground, he lost control of the ball because of the ground. Conclusive evidence = overturn the call.



-On the Clement's TD, the ball never hits the ground, it's in an awkward position but [B]you can argue about wether he had control or not[/B]. Remember you can control the ball with you butt and you ear, doesn't matter. So I agree you can say he lost control before setting 2 feet a second time, but [B]it's not conclusive[/B]. Because you can also argue about it. So I like the fact the call stand.



I just wished they were more consistent on letting call stand when nothing's conclusive.[/QUOTE]


Consistency is key, I also wish they would emphasis that replay is to overturn obvious bad calls, not to get everything perfect. Stop reviewing every score and turnover.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1188053]Consistency is key, I also wish they would emphasis that replay is to overturn obvious bad calls, not to get everything perfect. Stop reviewing every score and turnover.[/quote]

Kevin Sheehan made a point, sort of joking but there's something to it: they should have 90 seconds max to review. Like if it takes 5minutes to review, it's not conclusive, don't overturn.

I'm not sure I agree with him. Cause sometimes it can take time to see a small thing and that'll still be conclusive.

But I'd like them to stress the fact replay should be here to support the work of officials, not to question every decision they make with ever improving technology.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1188050]Maybe we can agree on your definition of the catch. Though I think it would need to be detailed just a little bit more.

Wouldn't it create quite a bump in fumbles called ?

Anyway I think the "control of the ball" part of the rule inherently introduces a time element. You control the ball because it doesn't move for a certain amount of time. Even if it's a fraction of a second. I don't see how the time element could be entirely dismissed.[/quote]

Yes it will create more fumbles, but is wrong with that? The NFL played with the two feet down or equivalent possession rule since the league was created and nobody complained about it or said there are too many fumbles. Turnovers are a exciting game changing play, nothing wrong with it. No need to protect the offenses any more then they already do. There was over 1000 yards of offense in the superbowl and only one punt. That is not balanced.
It wasn't until they changed the rules to promote more passing and give the offense more advantage and reason to throw the ball more, it has changed the game in a bad way.
Plus it is a contradiction when you can catch a ball on the edge of the sideline, as the receiver then steps put of bounds and only have two feet down and it is a catch. But in the field of play Jessie James gets his left foot and right knee down with possession of the ball and he is ruled incomplete.
You cannot have it both ways. the ball has to survive the ground rule has to go.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1188053]Consistency is key, I also wish they would emphasis that replay is to overturn obvious bad calls, not to get everything perfect. Stop reviewing every score and turnover.[/quote]

I agree that replay should be to overturn obviously bad calls but this past season replay was used to get things perfect. Then suddenly in the Super Bowl it didn't have to be perfect anymore. So much for consistency.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1188058]Yes it will create more fumbles, but is wrong with that? The NFL played with the two feet down or equivalent possession rule since the league was created and nobody complained about it or said there are too many fumbles. Turnovers are a exciting game changing play, nothing wrong with it. No need to protect the offenses any more then they already do. There was over 1000 yards of offense in the superbowl and only one punt. That is not balanced.
It wasn't until they changed the rules to promote more passing and give the offense more advantage and reason to throw the ball more, it has changed the game in a bad way.
Plus it is a contradiction when you can catch a ball on the edge of the sideline, as the receiver then steps put of bounds and only have two feet down and it is a catch. But in the field of play Jessie James gets his left foot and right knee down with possession of the ball and he is ruled incomplete.
You cannot have it both ways. the ball has to survive the ground rule has to go.[/quote]

I agree with you. I also wish we had John Madden in the booth. He would be ROASTING the NFL with humor, not making pithy statements or getting the refs in the booth. He would get his whiteboard on the screen, then draw a big foot touching the ground, then the other foot, then the ball in the receiver's hand. THEN BOOOOM thats a catch.

Frank Caliendo would do it great too.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1188058]Yes it will create more fumbles, but is wrong with that? The NFL played with the two feet down or equivalent possession rule since the league was created and nobody complained about it or said there are too many fumbles. T[B]urnovers are a exciting game changing play, nothing wrong with it. No need to protect the offenses any more then they already do.[/B] There was over 1000 yards of offense in the superbowl and only one punt. That is not balanced.
It wasn't until they changed the rules to promote more passing and give the offense more advantage and reason to throw the ball more, it has changed the game in a bad way.
[U]Plus it is a contradiction when you can catch a ball on the edge of the sideline, as the receiver then steps put of bounds and only have two feet down and it is a catch. But in the field of play Jessie James gets his left foot and right knee down with possession of the ball and he is ruled incomplete. [/U]
You cannot have it both ways. the ball has to survive the ground rule has to go.[/quote]

On the bolded part, I do agree.

But on the underlined part I don't. If the receiver catches the ball going to the ground, he has to maintain control all the way, wether he falls in bounds or not doesn't change anything. (As the rule is written now).

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=irish;1188065]I agree that replay should be to overturn obviously bad calls but this past season replay was used to get things perfect. Then suddenly in the Super Bowl it didn't have to be perfect anymore. So much for consistency.[/quote]


Between the regular season and the SB, Vince announcer the XFL, and threw massive shades at the NFL for the catch rule, then Goodell came out and said the catch rule needed to change, that he wanted fewer and shorter reviews etc... So on the biggest stage of all with everyone watching he had to back up what he said. If this becomes the norm I like it.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1188080]On the bolded part, I do agree.

But on the underlined part I don't. If the receiver catches the ball going to the ground, [B][U]he has to maintain control all the way,[/U][/B] wether he falls in bounds or not doesn't change anything. (As the rule is written now).[/quote]

The maintain possession to the ground part is bad/awful rule that needs to go away.
That fairly recent (new) rule is one of the major problems that is causing too much controversy. It leaves too much interpretation to the refs and causing too many replays and delays in the game.
Back before this terrible rule, regardless of where you are in the field, if player catches a pass and posses the ball in a hand and gets both feet or a foot and knee/hip down in the ground, it is a catch.
If that happens in the end zone the whistle is immediately blown, play over = TD.
Jessie James play he broke the line of the end zone first and then dropped the ball. When he reached the ball over the line the play is over. It should have been a TD. Watch the replay and you will see it. He dropped if after it crossed, but the ref applied the "he has to maintain control past the ground rule" incorrectly. Because by rule the play officially ended when he reached the ball across the line.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1188088]The maintain possession to the ground part is bad/awful rule that needs to go away.
That fairly recent (new) rule is one of the major problems that is causing too much controversy. It leaves too much interpretation to the refs and causing too many replays and delays in the game.
Back before this terrible rule, regardless of where you are in the field, if player catches a pass and posses the ball in a hand and gets both feet or a foot and knee/hip down in the ground, it is a catch.
If that happens in the end zone the whistle is immediately blown, play over = TD.
Jessie James play he broke the line of the end zone first and then dropped the ball. When he reached the ball over the line the play is over. It should have been a TD. [B]Watch the replay and you will see it. He dropped if after it crossed[/B], but the ref applied the "he has to maintain control past the ground rule" incorrectly. Because by rule the play officially ended when he reached the ball across the line.[/quote]

I saw it. I agree it [I]should have been[/I] a TD in the spirit of the game. I'm just saying [I]by the current rule[/I] it was a good overturn.

The "play ends when ball brakes the plane" rule applies only once the player becomes a runner, he must complete the catch first. We can argue that in the spirit it should be a catch, and I may very well agree, but by the rule this was the correct call.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

We need to RIP this thread, F the eagles it is a new season now. 0-0 baby!

Super Bowl LII Thread
 

Duplicate

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1187998]What was up with this shitty graphic they kept using?? Looks like Madden 12 lol

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180205/c269c9e99fead115958f8c520613d0d4.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]



That was absolutely terrible.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1187953]then he drops the F bomb on NFLN just to be cool, dude get out of here[/QUOTE]



His insta apology in the car was hysterical though. If i had more time id post the link but its easy to find if u haven’t seen it yet.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188008]So how is Odell a fruit but not anyone one else in the commercial?[/QUOTE]



He was playing the chick,......

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1188114]His insta apology in the car was hysterical though. If i had more time id post the link but its easy to find if u haven’t seen it yet.[/QUOTE]


Yeah he was like kiss my ass, sorry not sorry

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[url]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/07/doug-pederson-tells-eagles-this-is-the-new-norm/[/url]

Man I really like this guy, I know it may be premature but could the Eagles have the next legend HC in the making?

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188157][url]http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/07/doug-pederson-tells-eagles-this-is-the-new-norm/[/url]

Man I really like this guy, I know it may be premature but could the Eagles have the next legend HC in the making?[/quote]

no,:postcop:

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[url]https://247sports.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/Bolt/Eagles-Parade-Philadelphia-fan-breaks-his-own-fingers-for-doctors-note-to-go-to-parade-114869895[/url]

wow hell no

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

I work about a mile and a half from the Philadelphia Art Museum where the parade route is ending. I can hear the crowd from here.

The city is going crazy. It's neat to see, but my prevailing emotion is intense envy. I won't attend any festivities, the rivalry demands it.

But man does this REALLY make me want the Redskins to win one again. I'll attend that parade, for sure.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188186]I work about a mile and a half from the Philadelphia Art Museum where the parade route is ending. I can hear the crowd from here.

The city is going crazy. It's neat to see, but my prevailing emotion is intense envy. I won't attend any festivities, the rivalry demands it.

But man does this REALLY make me want the Redskins to win one again. I'll attend that parade, for sure.[/quote]

That's awesome man, I wish we could experience that too soon but shit it sucks not getting there .

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1188186]I work about a mile and a half from the Philadelphia Art Museum where the parade route is ending. I can hear the crowd from here.

The city is going crazy. It's neat to see, but my prevailing emotion is intense envy. I won't attend any festivities, the rivalry demands it.

But man does this REALLY make me want the Redskins to win one again. I'll attend that parade, for sure.[/quote]

I'll say it now. Barring huge health or money issue, I'll be there ! No ocean will prevent me from living this !

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1187880]The fucking balls on Pederson to call the exact same play call BB did.....but this one worked.[/quote]

It was an "illegal play".............(formation)

[url]https://www.upi.com/https:/www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2018/02/12/Rules-expert-says-Philadelphia-Eagles-trick-play-was-illegal/5261518481746/[/url]

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=Giantone;1188383]It was an "illegal play".............(formation)

[url]https://www.upi.com/https:/www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2018/02/12/Rules-expert-says-Philadelphia-Eagles-trick-play-was-illegal/5261518481746/[/url][/quote]

Before the play, you can see the receiver checking with the official if he's on the line of scrimmage, the judge doesn't make the signal that he's in the backfield.
So the formation was deemed legal.

It would have been illegal if the judge had his arm extended toward the backfield, signaling the receiver was in the backfield.
Anyway, it didn't create another eligible receiver, since the man at the end of the line had an ineligible number, and would have had to report as eligible to the officials to be eligible. That wasn't the case.

So it's not like it created one more receiver to cover. It didn't change anything for the defense.

And again, on many plays you could say the receiver, or the tight end, or the tackle is lined up in the backfield, ultimately, the signal of the side judge is the reference for everybody. (Players and officials).

So once the official didn't make the signal that the receiver was in the backfield, there was no flag to be thrown.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1188181][url]https://247sports.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/Bolt/Eagles-Parade-Philadelphia-fan-breaks-his-own-fingers-for-doctors-note-to-go-to-parade-114869895[/url]

wow hell no[/quote]

Q: How do you break an Eagles Fan's finger?

A: Punch him in the nose.

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1188386]Before the play, you can see the receiver checking with the official if he's on the line of scrimmage, the judge doesn't make the signal that he's in the backfield.
So the formation was deemed legal.

It would have been illegal if the judge had his arm extended toward the backfield, signaling the receiver was in the backfield.
Anyway, it didn't create another eligible receiver, since the man at the end of the line had an ineligible number, and would have had to report as eligible to the officials to be eligible. That wasn't the case.

So it's not like it created one more receiver to cover. It didn't change anything for the defense.

And again, on many plays you could say the receiver, or the tight end, or the tackle is lined up in the backfield, ultimately, the signal of the side judge is the reference for everybody. (Players and officials).

So once the official didn't make the signal that the receiver was in the backfield, there was no flag to be thrown.[/quote]


I'm sticking with the expert on this one..


"FOX rules analyst and former NFL official Mike Pereira said Monday on a podcast that Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Nick Foles' fourth-down touchdown in Super Bowl LII was an illegal play."

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1188401]I'm sticking with the expert on this one..


"FOX rules analyst and former NFL official Mike Pereira said Monday on a podcast that Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Nick Foles' fourth-down touchdown in Super Bowl LII was an illegal play."[/QUOTE]

Yeah the judge should have signaled the receiver to be in the backfield, making it an illegal formation, but once he didn't after the receiver checked towards him the play was legal.

Plus even Pereira says "It’s kind of one of those that has no effect on the play. I get it. But they didn’t line up properly." ... Well Mike you could say that on a LOOOT of plays, I don't get undermining the officials work on insignificant details like that!

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/12/mike-pereira-eagles-were-in-illegal-formation-on-philly-special/]Mike Pereira: Eagles were in illegal formation on Philly Special – ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Super Bowl LII Thread
 

Time to close this thread, F the eagles HTTR