Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Kent State anyone? I know it's not the same, but the video just reminded me of it.

[YT]-L4k62QabIM[/YT]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Good Reuters article:[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/28/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA3O16720140428]U.S. sanctions more Russians over Ukraine | Reuters[/url]

The slideshow as well shows that it looks pretty full blown at this point.

Tania Mysak ‏@martantomkat 1h
Life under Russia "@bopanc: Pensioner in #Donetsk says was beaten by separatists who attacked pro-#Ukraine rally

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmUjLP4IQAAispm.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Fuck Putin. If Ukraine had any oil, we'd have a carrier parked off the coast and troops on the ground by the thousands. They should kill their economy. Fuck em.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

An interesting thing, as we levy these various sanctions. Russia has pegged (or is about to in May) the ruble back to a gold standard, and is on the verge of only selling their oil for gold or rubles.

I will admit, this is an interesting tactic, and if they get enough buy in, maybe it blows up the underbelly of the US banking system. Certainly there are a lot of fearmongers out there that have been warning of it from China for a long time.

I still have this bad feeling that Putin is just playing the western leaders like a fiddle. But maybe he's just a maniac.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

I guess the Kiev govt has just accepted that the East is lost. Doesn't seem like they have made much of an attempt to take back or stop the pro Russian movement.

From Breaking News:
Acting Ukrainian President Turchynov says most police in east Ukraine incapable of fulfilling duties, demands dismissal of Luhansk, Donetsk commanders - @Reuters

So it makes me wonder if it really is a case where the Western powers ought to accept that Ukraine should be divided. Hard to defend the Kiev government when a lot of the frontline troops in the East won't.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1069577]An interesting thing, as we levy these various sanctions. Russia has pegged (or is about to in May) the ruble back to a gold standard, and is on the verge of only selling their oil for gold or rubles.

I will admit, this is an interesting tactic, and if they get enough buy in, maybe it blows up the underbelly of the US banking system. Certainly there are a lot of fearmongers out there that have been warning of it from China for a long time.

I still have this bad feeling that Putin is just playing the western leaders like a fiddle. But maybe he's just a maniac.[/quote]

i read china has agreed to use the euro with russia oil. this goes back to iran wanting to have OPEC use euro 4-5 years ago. smart move if they could ever get all the moving (and sometimes warring) parties n'sync.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27259614]BBC News - 'Many dead' in Ukraine offensive in Sloviansk - Turchynov[/url]


Ukraine going on the offensive in some areas against the pro-Russian rebels. No doubt Russia is behind this crap.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/02/us-ukraine-crisis-odessa-fire-idUSBREA410RP20140502]More than 40 killed in fire, clashes in Ukraine's Odessa | Reuters[/url]

it's looking to get rougher, of course this was between rival soccer fans so you know it will get out of control.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[IMG]http://funatphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/a1ABD06_700b.jpg?f2944c[/IMG]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/06/world/europe/russia-swearing-law/index.html?hpt=hp_t2]Swearing off bad language: Russia bans cussing in films, books, music - CNN.com[/url]

Wasnt gonna start a new thread, but to me this is crazy.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1068720]The funny thing about this situation is Putin could end the instability in Ukraine pretty easily if he truly wanted to. He is just gettin off now and I really think his is measuring more the Europeans than the us. He has his eye on the prize and think he has a lot of wheels in motion not only Ukraine but other ex soviet states. He may feel comfortable enough with his economy to go for it, but he is certainly monitoring the internal pressure upon the Russian economy to see if it could handle more stress.

Also think Putin knows he has a window with Obama but he might not get the same advantage with a republican in the White House.[/quote]I think Putin wants Odessa.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Transcript of press conference with Putin. If he meant what he says, it ought to be easy to get things backed off the edge. Unfortunately, and I tend to think both the West and Russia are guilty in this aspect, once you encourage the extreme, you can't always rein it back in.

[url=http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts/7143]President of Russia[/url]

I always remember the saying "revolutions consume their own", and I kinda think that's what we are seeing in Ukraine now.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1070359]Transcript of press conference with Putin. If he meant what he says, it ought to be easy to get things backed off the edge. Unfortunately, and I tend to think both the West and Russia are guilty in this aspect, once you encourage the extreme, you can't always rein it back in.

[url=http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts/7143]President of Russia[/url]

I always remember the saying "revolutions consume their own", and I kinda think that's what we are seeing in Ukraine now.[/quote]Putin blamed everything on the Ukrainian government, while absolving Russia of all responsibility. And calls the current government illegitimate, while saying the planned elections shouldn't take place just yet.

Russia already made one naked land grab on Crimea. The same pattern, and denials, are being made on eastern Ukraine now.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1070364]Putin blamed everything on the Ukrainian government, while absolving Russia of all responsibility. And calls the current government illegitimate, while saying the planned elections shouldn't take place just yet.

Russia already made one naked land grab on Crimea. The same pattern, and denials, are being made on eastern Ukraine now.[/quote]

I agree with your first and last sentences, but the middle one is wrong on 3 counts:

1) technically the current government is fairly illegitimate, meaning no votes have been held and they came to power not through an election but through popular revolt.

2) he tells the eastern federalists to hold off on their planned referendum (something the West asked him to do)
[quote]In this context, we appeal too, to representatives of southeast Ukraine and supporters of federalisation[B] to hold off the referendum scheduled for May 11[/B], in order to give this dialogue the conditions it needs to have a chance.[/quote]

3) he states Russia agrees the scheduled vote on the 25th needs to take place.
[quote]We must do everything possible to ensure that people in southeast Ukraine understand, feel and believe that after the Ukrainian presidential election on May 24 or 25 their lawful rights will be reliably guaranteed.[/quote]

The question is the old Reagan adage of trust but verify. He also said that the Russian troops have pulled back, our government says they haven't. Really need an independent party (not that there is one in this case) to show satellite imagery showing whether the tanks and troops have pulled back. Even then it wouldn't take long to be on the road again.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1070386]I agree with your first and last sentences, but the middle one is wrong on 3 counts:

1) technically the current government is fairly illegitimate, meaning no votes have been held and they came to power not through an election but through popular revolt.

2) he tells the eastern federalists to hold off on their planned referendum (something the West asked him to do)


3) he states Russia agrees the scheduled vote on the 25th needs to take place.


The question is the old Reagan adage of trust but verify. He also said that the Russian troops have pulled back, our government says they haven't. Really need an independent party (not that there is one in this case) to show satellite imagery showing whether the tanks and troops have pulled back. Even then it wouldn't take long to be on the road again.[/quote]Thanks for explaining to me what Putin was saying about the election.

I really think Putin is going to try to take Odessa and other productive regions of Ukraine, the same way he sliced off parts of Georgia and Crimea. I think Ukraine has to worry more about Russians inside it's territory leading groups shooting down helicopters and separatist "federalization" mob attacks, than the Russian troops on the border.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/100000-yes-ballots-for-referendum-intercepted-2-347222.html]Reports: 100,000 'yes' ballots for referendum intercepted in Sloviansk[/url]


Putin trying to rig the votes. Probably about time we either put some serious damaging sanctions against Russia or we send some military over there and dare Putin to strike.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

if we put troops on the ground and he attacks then what? land war with russia? nukes? americans dying in a ukranian civil war where both sides hate us for being there?

what's the next step after "sending troops" ?

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

How about getting the UN (or EU and us) to send in troops?

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1071883][url=http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/100000-yes-ballots-for-referendum-intercepted-2-347222.html]Reports: 100,000 'yes' ballots for referendum intercepted in Sloviansk[/url]


Putin trying to rig the votes. Probably about time we either put some serious damaging sanctions against Russia or we send some military over there and dare Putin to strike.[/quote]As one commenter said: This is just proof that eastern Ukraine really does want to be part of Putin's Russia. They've already adopted the Russian voting system!

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Academi (formerly Blackwater) now on the streets of Odessa.

That ain't good. I'll post a source later.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1070402]Thanks for explaining to me what Putin was saying about the election.

I really think Putin is going to try to take Odessa and other productive regions of Ukraine, the same way he sliced off parts of Georgia and Crimea. I think Ukraine has to worry more about Russians inside it's territory leading groups shooting down helicopters and separatist "federalization" mob attacks, than the Russian troops on the border.[/quote]

Well, I think you had described it earlier, but they are using pretty much the Crimea strategy. Now that they held the referendums, they are asking to join Russia, and Russia said they were going to seek recognition of the states from the UN (like that is going to happen) and then I imagine they will annex and send in troops. Have to wonder how the Kiev group will respond to that.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Paula Slier is a correspondent for the Russian Times Newspaper that is covering the Ukraine war from the Russian view. Denis Pushilin is the leader of the pro russian forces (interesting - but not surprising -that they wanted to be called pro-federalization, but now that the referendum has occurred they are seeking integration into Russia)


PaulaSlier_RT ‏@PaulaSlier_RT 2h
#DenisPushilin: we, the people of the Donetsk Republic, declare that from now on the Republic is a sovereign state.

PaulaSlier_RT ‏@PaulaSlier_RT 2h
We ask the Russian Federation to examine the possibility of the Republic to become part of the Russian Federation.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1072005]Well, I think you had described it earlier, but they are using pretty much the Crimea strategy. Now that they held the referendums, they are asking to join Russia, and Russia said they were going to seek recognition of the states from the UN (like that is going to happen) and then I imagine they will annex and send in troops. Have to wonder how the Kiev group will respond to that.[/quote]Depends on whether the referendum vote was free and not tampered with. The pro russian group caught with ballots already marked seem to indicate otherwise.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

I think it's fair to say that any vote with a 90% yes vote is probably rigged. Honestly you would think dictators would learn to make their vote outcomes something like 63/36, because that more closely reflects human tendencies in contested votes. If 90% are voting one way in a critical/divisive election, you can pretty much assume intimidation and fraud.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

This is for NC_Skins

[quote]Balkanist Magazine ‏@Balkanist
VP Joe Biden's son has been appointed director of #Ukraine’s largest private gas [/quote]

[url=http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-joins-the-team-of-burisma-holdings/]Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings | Burisma[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BniCJlsIQAA4GZf.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

and for all you wikileaks guys out there:

[url]https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html#efmAB5ACs[/url]

a cable from 2008 that basically says if Ukraine goes towards NATO, Russia will respond like it has. Interesting read actually.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Really could be a big turning point in the crisis:

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ukraine-pro-russian-insurgents-retreat-from-buildings-in-mariupol-1.2644943]Ukraine: Pro-Russian insurgents retreat from buildings in Mariupol - World - CBC News[/url]

Basically one of the largest employers in the region said that going toward Russia was going to be bad for everyone.

The story seems like a real positive change in the city of Mariopul (sp?). The more areas that can vote in the upcoming election (which hopefully is fully monitored and sanctioned as legitimate by appropriate international observers) the more the crisis will diminish.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

What have we told them about leaving their Tanks in the middle of the streets with the keys in them:

[url=http://jalopnik.com/random-dude-fires-tank-abandoned-on-ukraine-street-1577379277]Random Dude Fires Tank Abandoned On Ukraine Street[/url]
[YT]sNEhkSyvhyA[/YT]
Kids these days Geez.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1072540]What have we told them about leaving their Tanks in the middle of the streets with the keys in them:

[url=http://jalopnik.com/random-dude-fires-tank-abandoned-on-ukraine-street-1577379277]Random Dude Fires Tank Abandoned On Ukraine Street[/url]
[YT]sNEhkSyvhyA[/YT]
Kids these days Geez.[/quote]wow. I'm guessing the Ukrainian army abandoned that bmp?

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/23/world/europe/tapes-said-to-reveal-polish-minister-disparaging-us-ties.html?_r=0[/url]

In a new excerpt from secretly recorded conversations involving some of Poland’s highest officials, Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski is quoted as describing his country’s security relationship with the United States as “worth nothing.”

Mr. Sikorski goes on to say in the recording released on Sunday, “It’s even harmful, as it gives Poland a false sense of security.” He also describes the relationship in more vulgar terms.

The deepening scandal over the conversations — apparently recorded in the back rooms of restaurants frequented by Poland’s political elite and leaked to a weekly Warsaw newspaper — has threatened the survival of Prime Minister Donald Tusk’s center-right government.
The scandal erupted last weekend, when Wprost released the first of the transcripts, declining to say where it had gotten them or who it believed had recorded them.



Here is Russia secretly recording and releasing taped conversations between high ranking Polish officials. We remember when this happened around this time last year between our Ukraine Diplomat and the State dept?

Folks pretty easy to see that Russia is doing everything possible to continue to destablize that region. Russia see we've got a weak guy in office.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

CNN's take on the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 tragedy so far.

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html"]LINK[/URL]

Putin: "Russian President Vladimir Putin said Ukraine's military campaign against the separatists was to blame.

"This tragedy would not have happened, if there had been peace on that land, or in any case, if military operations in southeastern Ukraine had not been renewed," Putin said in televised remarks. "And without a doubt the government of the territory on which it happened bears responsibility for this frightening tragedy."

Translation: "If only Ukraine had surrendered to the rebels we are arming, our rebels wouldn't have had to shoot down a civilian airliner."


Deleted posts suggest Ukraine rebels downed Malaysian jet in error.

[URL="http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-suggests-insurgents-shot-down-malaysia-plane-mistake-174750060.html"]LINK[/URL]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-releases-images-it-says-show-russia-has-fired-artillery-over-border-into-ukraine/2014/07/27/f9190158-159d-11e4-9e3b-7f2f110c6265_story.html?tid=recommended_strip_2]U.S. releases images it says show Russia has fired artillery over border into Ukraine - The Washington Post[/url]


I don't think we needed to see pictures to know what Russia has been doing. Fuck those asshats.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1072114]This is for NC_Skins



[url=http://burisma.com/hunter-biden-joins-the-team-of-burisma-holdings/]Hunter Biden joins the team of Burisma Holdings | Burisma[/url]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BniCJlsIQAA4GZf.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1072116]and for all you wikileaks guys out there:

[url]https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html#efmAB5ACs[/url]

a cable from 2008 that basically says if Ukraine goes towards NATO, Russia will respond like it has. Interesting read actually.[/quote]


How did I miss these gems? Not surprising that high ranking official's family members are making bank. Nah...no conflicts of interests. Those cables from 2008 were spot on as well. Amazing.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

So Ukranian troops thought going into Russia without weapons and then coming back into Ukraine gave them a free pass? Sounds like they learned their training from Bill Murray in Stripes. Oh wait, even he knew to take weapons.

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/r-separatists-fire-on-ukraine-troops-returning-from-russia-kiev-2014-05]UKRAINE: Pro-Russian Separatists Opened Fire On Our Unarmed Soldiers - Business Insider[/url]

As Walter from Jeff Dunham would say...
[IMG]http://www.quickmeme.com/img/bb/bb6275de1605d2fdaace794f3c70f4705c33a7b3e56fa77780ffa8da7114df42.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

after months of build up, things seem imminent again. 19-20k tropps at border, putin calling for an emergency UN session to address the "humanitarian crisis" in Ukraine ...

I like a quote from POTUS i read a little bit ago .... "russia doesn't make anything. no immigrants are going there for jobs or growth and the male life expectancy is 60 years old".

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-fighter-speaks-against-east-ukraine-separatist-leaders-131845431.html]Rebel fighter speaks out against east Ukraine separatist leaders[/url]

Rebel fighter speaks out against east Ukraine separatist leaders - Reuters, by Maria Tsvetkova

"DONETSK Ukraine (Reuters) - A 37-year-old rebel fighter in eastern Ukraine is speaking out against the separatist leadership, accusing them of adopting flashy lifestyles and pushing locals aside in a rebellion that has largely been taken over by Russians."

"Three top leaders of the rebellion now - Aleksander Borodai, Igor Girkin also known as Strelkov, and Vladimir Antyufeyev - are Russian. Kiev says another prominent and feared field commander, Igor Bezler, is a Russian intelligence operative."

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Any thoughts:

[QUOTE]By Reuters4:32PM BST 15 Aug 2014
Ukrainian artillery destroyed a "significant" part of a Russian armoured column that crossed into Ukraine during the night, President Petro Poroshenko told British Prime Minister David Cameron on Friday, according to the presidential website.

"The president informed that the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of the machines had been eliminated by Ukrainian artillery at night," the statement said.

Poroshenko did not include any proof for his statement.

Separately, a Ukrainian military spokesman said Ukrainian forces had tracked the Russian armoured column as soon as it crossed onto Ukrainian soil.

"Appropriate actions were undertaken and a part of it no longer exists," military spokesman Andriy Lysenko told journalists.[/QUOTE]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1077609]Any thoughts:[/quote]With the Russians already firing artillery at Ukrainian forces for weeks, their involvement is beyond doubt.

[url=http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/24/obama-administration-russia-firing-artillery-at-ukraine-military-targets/]Obama administration: Russia firing artillery at Ukraine military targets | Fox News[/url]

Pity Ukraine. At least this should drive Eastern Europe further away from Russia.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Pretty amazing coincidence that Ukraine had the rebels backed up in Donetsk and Luhansk, seemed to be losing rebel support, then the aid convoy came and now Ukraine forces are losing the battles. There must have been a lot of Popeye's spinach in those crates!

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

and then there is this from a Russian Times correspondent, which is about as official as it will get:

PaulaSlier_RT ‏@PaulaSlier_RT 2h

Thousands of #Russian soldiers are participating in the attack on eastern #Ukraine.