Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Other than Snyder in 1999, has anyone ever really built a fairly successful team based almost exclusively from free agency?

I know some have pointed to Manning and the few FA's they bought, but i mean has anyone ever did like we did in 1999 and just bring out the check book and buy everyone they wanted?

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1046003]That's not really saying much is it?

I agree I think they wanted to keep the starting 5 together and build off last year, I don't think they anticipated things going south so quickly with basically 4 of those 5.[/quote]To be clear, the OL performance going south is not something I hold against the coaching staff. Letting the team regress to the point where the OL performance becomes a weekly topic is something I hold against the coaching staff. I thought the plan to retain all five OL would be at least adequate to win half our games.

They've been exposed as inadequate, but the failure of the team has been complete, and cannot be pinned on a single unit.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1045991]Could have done all that with the guys in camp in preseason too. Coaches chose to go with this group.

The safety situation seemed sloppier than the other position groups. I don't know for sure that this was their plan A, but I'm not sure who was available in August that they could have gone to get if only they had more cap dollars.[/quote] I thought tanard Jackson was their plan a

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

They had to have known the chances of Jackson being reinstated right away were slim to none.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1046165]I thought tanard Jackson was their plan a[/quote]I hope not.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=The Goat;1045998]Apart from P Manning, I can't think of a single team that's gotten to the next level recently (great up to elite for example) based on FA. Brees before that. Hmmmm I see a pattern there with QBs lol. You can make the argument for Seattle here, based on Lynch, Harvin, Rice and several defensive players brought in via FA. But then you remember Rice and Harvin are non-factors, and Lynch never had this kind of success until paired with Wilson. The whole offense revolves around Wilson. And their drafted WRs are balling. Defensively, the best players are drafted guys like Sherman (6th rounder).

The point is it all comes back to the draft, with FA signings complimenting the core you build through the draft. I tried to give Mike lots of credit up to this year for building a core through the draft, but I think it's average at best given what we see. In four years he hasn't drafted a single impact WR and only one olineman (a can't miss prospect IMO). That's pathetic. Really, really pathetic.[/quote]

All good points. Every year we see a team go out and over spend and it never seems to translate to more wins. Last year it was Philly, this year Miami. Yet come March, Redskin One will be gased up, free agents will be signed, new jerseys will be in the stores to sell and the fans will think it's X-mas.

However, because of the RG3 trade and the cap penalty, we have no choice but to go out and sign guys. I just hope that whoever picks the players knows what the hell they're doing. No more Josh Morgan, Josh Wilson signings.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Fiversons;1044571]You think it's a circus in Washington now, start Kirk Cousins and see what happens... You don't play Cousins unless RGIII is hurt, period...[/quote]

Here's another circus scenario - RGIII gets seriously hurt in the next to last game and everyone advocating for RGIII to take every single snap will collectively change their tune to, "why the hell was Shanny playing RGIII in a meaningless game at the end of a lost season? Fire Shanny!!!"

See also: Brees, Drew. Shoulder.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1046191]All good points. Every year we see a team go out and over spend and it never seems to translate to more wins. Last year it was Philly, this year Miami. Yet come March, Redskin One will be gased up, free agents will be signed, new jerseys will be in the stores to sell and the fans will think it's X-mas.

However, because of the RG3 trade and the cap penalty, we have no choice but to go out and sign guys. I just hope that whoever picks the players knows what the hell they're doing. No more Josh Morgan, Josh Wilson signings.[/quote]

There will always be excuses for the Skins to spend money. It is all part of the insanity of being part of the Redskins organization recently.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1046191]All good points. Every year we see a team go out and over spend and it never seems to translate to more wins. Last year it was Philly, this year Miami. Yet come March, Redskin One will be gased up, free agents will be signed, new jerseys will be in the stores to sell and the fans will think it's X-mas.

However, because of the RG3 trade and the cap penalty, we have no choice but to go out and sign guys. I just hope that whoever picks the players knows what the hell they're doing. No more Josh Morgan, Josh Wilson signings.[/quote]

Well, I would hope they spend up to their full cap limit. Is there anyone who wants them to keep spending $18mil less than they actually can? While this regime hasn't batted 1000 (nobody does), they have shown a propensity to go after young free agents that don't necessarily break the bank. Pretty good value for the most part.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=The Goat;1045998]Apart from P Manning, I can't think of a single team that's gotten to the next level recently (great up to elite for example) based on FA. Brees before that. Hmmmm I see a pattern there with QBs lol. You can make the argument for Seattle here, based on Lynch, Harvin, Rice and several defensive players brought in via FA. But then you remember Rice and Harvin are non-factors, and Lynch never had this kind of success until paired with Wilson. The whole offense revolves around Wilson. And their drafted WRs are balling. Defensively, the best players are drafted guys like Sherman (6th rounder).

The point is it all comes back to the draft, with FA signings complimenting the core you build through the draft. I tried to give Mike lots of credit up to this year for building a core through the draft, but I think it's average at best given what we see. In four years he hasn't drafted a single impact WR and only one olineman (a can't miss prospect IMO). That's pathetic. Really, really pathetic.[/quote]

The difference is every other team in the league is trying to improve their teams through free agency by spending the same amount of money they spent the previous year. The Skins will be trying to improve their team with $18mil more than they had the previous 2 years.

Doesn't guarantee success, but I, for one, hope they spend it on free agents. What are the other options? Don't spend it? Just give everyone raises?

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=The Goat;1045998]Apart from P Manning, I can't think of a single team that's gotten to the next level recently (great up to elite for example) based on FA. Brees before that. Hmmmm I see a pattern there with QBs lol. You can make the argument for Seattle here, based on Lynch, Harvin, Rice and several defensive players brought in via FA. But then you remember Rice and Harvin are non-factors, and Lynch never had this kind of success until paired with Wilson. The whole offense revolves around Wilson. And their drafted WRs are balling. Defensively, the best players are drafted guys like Sherman (6th rounder).

The point is it all comes back to the draft, with FA signings complimenting the core you build through the draft. I tried to give Mike lots of credit up to this year for building a core through the draft, but I think it's average at best given what we see. In four years he hasn't drafted a single impact WR and only one olineman (a can't miss prospect IMO). That's pathetic. Really, really pathetic.[/quote]

And every year teams improve dramatically or get dramatically worse with essentially the same personnel. And you think teams win the Super Bowl because they have the best Wide Receivers? That should be the focus?!?!

Guess that's because of all of the Super Bowl rings currently adorning the fingers of Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Megatron, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, etc.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=donofriose;1046197]There will always be excuses for the Skins to spend money. It is all part of the insanity of being part of the Redskins organization recently.[/quote]

I bet they'll try to use the excuse that they have $18mil more to spend next year. Worst excuse ever.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=44Deezel;1046202]I bet they'll try to use the excuse that they have $18mil more to spend next year. Worst excuse ever.[/quote]

Does anyone know exactly or close to what they will have to spend? I looked on the Cap Salary page it has not been updated in while. Just curious.....

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Jayroc24;1046238]Does anyone know exactly or close to what they will have to spend? I looked on the Cap Salary page it has not been updated in while. Just curious.....[/quote]

Somewhere around $20 - $30M

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1046239]Somewhere around $20 - $30M[/quote]

And this is without resigning players a la London Fletcher or is this an estimate based on who you predict we will be salary dumping.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

we were set back a year in free agency. weve been making subtle pickups the past few years nothing crazy. we didnt go after revis like we could have, vjax, we were set back. look at this team... look at the roster... its clear we havent been shredding free agency in recent years. its time now. we need a db and a wr (or two) a beast and a speedy project player possible returner. and a solid proven olineman looking to make a change. then we take our late picks. futures bright imo why not? we have some talent here.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=44Deezel;1046198]Well, I would hope they spend up to their full cap limit. Is there anyone who wants them to keep spending $18mil less than they actually can? While this regime hasn't batted 1000 (nobody does), they have shown a propensity to go after young free agents that don't necessarily break the bank. Pretty good value for the most part.[/quote]

To me it's more about getting guys that want to play football. People can argue that Garcon may or may not be a true #1. I think he's a lower #1 or a real strong #2. But that guy goes out every week and plays hard tough football. We need more signings like that one. Signing guys that want to play hard and play them at their natural positions.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1046244]And this is without resigning players a la London Fletcher or is this an estimate based on who you predict we will be salary dumping.[/quote]

This is without any re-signings. We have a lot of our own guys hitting FA so something to consider.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1046248]This is without any re-signings. We have a lot of our own guys hitting FA so something to consider.[/quote]

orakpo is on a contract year isnt he?

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Skins4L;1046252]orakpo is on a contract year isnt he?[/quote]

Yup

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Potential contract voids aren't factored in either I think. Fletcher and Morgan both have deals that can be voided, seems pretty likely to happen in both cases.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1046256]Potential contract voids aren't factored in either I think. Fletcher and Morgan both have deals that can be voided, seems pretty likely to happen in both cases.[/quote]

thats huge. good job bruce allen

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

[quote=The Goat;1045998]Apart from P Manning, I can't think of a single team that's gotten to the next level recently (great up to elite for example) based on FA. Brees before that. Hmmmm I see a pattern there with QBs lol. You can make the argument for Seattle here, based on Lynch, Harvin, Rice and several defensive players brought in via FA. But then you remember Rice and Harvin are non-factors, and Lynch never had this kind of success until paired with Wilson. The whole offense revolves around Wilson. And their drafted WRs are balling. Defensively, the best players are drafted guys like Sherman (6th rounder).

The point is it all comes back to the draft, with FA signings complimenting the core you build through the draft. I tried to give Mike lots of credit up to this year for building a core through the draft, but I think it's average at best given what we see. In four years he hasn't drafted a single impact WR and only one olineman (a can't miss prospect IMO). That's pathetic. Really, really pathetic.[/quote]

I do agree that building through the draft is the way to go but I think your look at the importance of FA is too subjective. Ozzie newsome has struggled with drafting qb and wr (except for flacco) so he had to get McNair in FA to get them to the playoffs. Boldin too had to be brought in for the passing game. While I think you would use the term complimentary based on your analysis above, both acquisitions were integral in making the Ravens playoff contenders w McNair and Super Bowl contenders w boldin.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Building through the draft, for the most part, is how you get difference makers. Every once on a while a Peyton Manning will hit the market. But that's rare. The best players in the NFL stay with their teams for long periods of time. I've never been a big fan of giving other teams players big money.

Re: Gruden Says Start Cousins
 

Your build your core through the draft then you fill using free agency. Problem with the redskins they tried to build the core through both, just look at the offensive and defensivelines.

Copy what the Seattle did.