Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I agree that we should be better and there have been many missteps along the way (McNabb, handling of RG3 during offseason, etc. )

BUT, I'm just not sure changing coaches is the answer. We're coming off a NFC Championship, and we're stumbling out of the gates after our QB's knee is slowly healing.

Couple of reasons to stay put:
1) Lack of continuity has hurt us repeatedly over past 10-15 years, and new coach would put us back again without certainty anything would be better. Shanahan has taken almost 4 years to evolve roster to a 3-4 defense, ZBS, etc and a new coach could change it all again delaying all progress.
2) Shanahan had to deal with many challenges:
- $30M salary cap penalty limited staff's ability to get RT, WR, secondary help
- inherited Haynesworth, Portis, and very old/toxic team
- RG3's injury delayed his progress this year
3) Team has managed cap relatively well (aside from penalty). They have not backloaded many contracts, putting us in great position to get great FA's this coming offseason.
4) Drafts have been MUCH better than Cerratos years. T.Williams, Kerrigan (passing on Gabbert), P. Riley, RG3, A.Morris. Promising players like J.Reed, Hankerson, and ?? Amerson/Cousins, etc


I know we can't wait forever, but I'd still say changing coaches frequently has hurt us again and again, and I'd rather stick it out for a few more years than blow up the roster all over again.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1033101]They also re-signed Lynch. No doubt having those extra picks helped big time. The way I look at it, we sacrificed 4 starters for 1.

One of Mike's biggest blunders has been his choice in DC.[/quote]I think the RG3 trade is still a very real debate as far as whether it was worth it or not.

From Shanahan's point though it was a no-brainer. It helped him win in 2012 using draft pick value from the 2013 and 2014 seasons, seasons that he only gets to coach in if he wins in 2012. The win now decision is not something that he regrets, nor should he. No matter what happens, we'll always have last year's seven game run.

I tend to lean towards the I'd do the trade again side, but there were so many great quarterbacks in the 2012 draft, that any team offering multiple firsts to move up definitely overpaid (and they were lined up to overpay). The draft is one of the spots where you can overpay for picks and not have it harm your franchise long term.

Unless you drafted Brandon Weeden. Then you really got it wrong.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I feel like the $36 million penalty hurt us, but trading away 2 firsts is worse.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=donofriose;1033103]Shanahan deserves to be able to finish the year. I still think he has to finish at the very minimum 7-9 to keep his job. No matter what happens, last year proved to me he deserves to finish the season.[/quote]Shanahan definitely earned the benefit of the doubt last season. The real issue is: how much is still in doubt?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1033104]The cap penalty took away a number of opportunities to get better. But at 1-4, the problem is[/quote]

We aren't 1-4 due to lack of talent. That much I'll say first and foremost.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1033112]I feel like the $36 million penalty hurt us, but trading away 2 firsts is worse.[/quote]Yes.

You can't get those picks back. You're forced to develop RG3 into the kind of star that three top picks cannot replace. That is really hard to do. But it is what the Redskins signed up for.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1033114]We aren't 1-4 due to lack of talent. That much I'll say first and foremost.[/quote]

I honestly do not believe the Redskins are very talented compared to the rest of the NFL.

I just think the Redskins really have nothing to be proud of at this point and time. They really do nothing well. They are almost the Jaguars. Even the Jaguars made the Denver game competitive for a half and they picked of Manning and he only had two touchdown passes. I'm not sure the Redskins could accomplish any of that.

When RG3 isn't great, like he was last year... you are seeing the results.

We have talent , we won 10 games just a season ago

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

We have some talent thats all I'll say.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=donofriose;1033121]I honestly do not believe the Redskins are very talented compared to the rest of the NFL.

I just think the Redskins really have nothing to be proud of at this point and time. They really do nothing well. They are almost the Jaguars. Even the Jaguars made the Denver game competitive for a half and they picked of Manning and he only had two touchdown passes. I'm not sure the Redskins could accomplish any of that.

When RG3 isn't great, like he was last year... you are seeing the results.[/quote]

Yeah I could totally see the Jags putting together a 7 game win streak.

Griffin was great last year but he didn't do it alone.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033125]Yeah I could totally see the Jags putting together a 7 game win streak.

Griffin was great last year but he didn't do it alone.[/quote]

So you can see this Redskins team putting together a 7 game winning streak?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=donofriose;1033130]So you can see this Redskins team putting together a 7 game winning streak?[/quote]

Why not, it's basically the same team from last year.

Since you made the comparison, could the Jags?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033131][B]Why not, it's basically the same team from last year.
[/B]
Since you made the comparison, could the Jags?[/quote]

Remember donofriose, he's the sane one here...

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1033104]One thing that we all should now about football right now as fans is that paying more for your players does not ensure you of better players.

The cap penalty took away a number of opportunities to get better. But at 1-4, the problem is that we have done a poor job taking advantage of the opportunities we get every Sunday. If your argument is really that our dealt hand was so crappy that it can not be overcome, you're probably an excuse-maker.[/quote]

They key word here is "opportunity" ...there is no guarantee that if we were able to bring in free agents our record would be any different. The roster is already loaded with free agents on both sides of the ball.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Seriously though Matty, jokes aside, you[I] realllly[/I] think we could go on a 7 game winning streak?

Next thing you're going to say is that we'll beat Denver.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033131]Why not, it's basically the same team from last year.

Since you made the comparison, could the Jags?[/quote]

I am talking about only this year.

To me bringing up last year's run is like bringing up the Giants run at the Superbowl.

Right now the Giants are in the Jaguar's ballpark for worst team in the NFL right now, what happened the past two years to those team means little to nothing to me when comparing them strictly based on their performance this year.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1033136]Seriously though Matty, jokes aside, you[I] realllly[/I] think we could go on a 7 game winning streak?

Next thing you're going to say is that we'll beat Denver.[/quote]

Did we think they could do it last year when they were 3-6?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1033134]Remember donofriose, he's the sane one here...[/quote]

Pretty much the same roster right?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=donofriose;1033130]So you can see this Redskins team putting together a 7 game winning streak?[/quote]

Yes.

RG3 is main reason we suck compared to last year, and he should be getting better as he gets his legs back and learns how to play in the pocket and against the blitz. Hopefully he also finds his accuracy. The running game is nonexistent but should also improve as RG3 gets back. I can see us continue to struggle for a few more games.

But if we rattle off a win-streak by the end of the season, it could save a lot of people's jobs, serve as a confidence boost going into next year, and allow us to recruit good FAs who want to play for us.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033131]Why not, it's basically the same team from last year.

Since you made the comparison, could the Jags?[/quote]

Matt are you taking the side of optimism just for giggles? Surely the schedule and outcome of games has given you a more accurate guage of what to expect.

The difference with last year was dumb luck and momentum of a superhuman talent in Robert that won regular season games at the expense of the playoffs a d 2013 season.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1033149]Matt are you taking the side of optimism just for giggles? Surely the schedule and outcome of games has given you a more accurate guage of what to expect.

The difference with last year was dumb luck and momentum of a superhuman talent in Robert that won regular season games at the expense of the playoffs a d 2013 season.[/quote]

I'm not taking any side. Just saying if we learned anything from last year (and 2005 and 2007) it's you can't rule anything out and the season is never truly over until it's over.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Despite what some are clamoring for, I doubt Snyder fires Shanny unless the bottom completely falls out (4-12 type) and/or there is major dissension between him and RG3. He promised 5 yrs and if fires a well regarded NFL coaching lifer then he's basically affirming everything bad people inside the game and out have said about him and the organization since he bought the team.

That being said, IF he does that then look for someone who runs an up-tempo/no huddle/spread scheme that Griffin reportedly prefers or someone with a strong defensive background (Zimmer or Ray Horton comes to mind) or a shot at a Belichick/Carroll round 2 type who flamed out once but was well regarded (Spagnuolo, Childress, Wisenhunt) who are chomping at a second chance to prove themselves.

I can't see Snyder going the college route again after Spurrier and not the retread route either after Schottenheimer, Gibbs and Shanahan.

Honestly, I'm not excited about any of them.. With no first round pick and a number of starters with expiring contracts, I'm Rod Gardner (50-50) on if this offseason is the time to be making such a big change.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033144]Pretty much the same roster right?[/quote]

Yes, but the NFL evolves. Players play differently in their contract years. Players get older (See Fletcher, London). Injuries and suspensions occur. Opposing teams get better, then certain losses can really kick a teams demeanor in the gut. Key backups get hurt. Also our offense was the key to this team last year. Teams hadn't played against an offense like ours last year, now they've studied and started to figure out our offense. They've punched us, and we haven't counter punched them back. Its basically a lot of little things adding up to one major problem with us and some of those things, such as demeanor and will, aren't in-season fixes.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1033152]Yes, but the NFL evolves. Players play differently in their contract years. Players get older (See Fletcher, London). Injuries and suspensions occur. Opposing teams get better, then certain losses can really kick a teams demeanor in the gut. Key backups get hurt. Also our offense was the key to this team last year. Teams hadn't played against an offense like ours last year, now they've studied and started to figure out our offense. They've punched us, and we haven't counter punched them back. Its basically a lot of little things adding up to one major problem with us and some of those things, such as demeanor and will, aren't in-season fixes.[/quote]

My point is talent wise it's the same team that won 10 games a year ago. That's why the lack of talent excuse is a weak one IMO.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033153]My point is talent wise it's the same team that won 10 games a year ago. That's why the lack of talent excuse is a weak one IMO.[/quote]

Right, and in my previous post, I was saying that age, desire, motivation are all major factors in a players talent.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Mattyk;1033153]My point is talent wise it's the same team that won 10 games a year ago. That's why the lack of talent excuse is a weak one IMO.[/quote]In some ways, we're more talented this year, but last year's team was excellent at putting defenses in no-win situations and then physically punishing them for their indecision.

I don't think they have the talent available to do that this season. RG3 is more limited, Chester is more limited, Paulsen is more limited, Davis hasn't made any impact, and the strength in numbers approach by the offense just isn't that much of an advantage against bigger, faster, stronger defenses.

Ultimately, despite the best efforts of Kyle Shanahan et al, the Redskins need to win more one on one battles on offense (to win games) than they are capable of right now. And do that that, they need a talent infusion. But in the mean time, a better offensive approach could help put lipstick on the pig.

The last three games, the Redskins have been pretty much what they are: above average offensively, average defensively, horrific on special teams. I think the team is just out of upside at this point. There aren't many more wells to tap into to improve the performance of the roster (although game management could be easily and instantly improved). Fresh blood is needed.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Paintrain;1033151]Despite what some are clamoring for, I doubt Snyder fires Shanny unless the bottom completely falls out (4-12 type) and/or there is major dissension between him and RG3. He promised 5 yrs and if fires a well regarded NFL coaching lifer then he's basically affirming everything bad people inside the game and out have said about him and the organization since he bought the team.[/quote]If he sits idle while Shanahan wastes another season of his investment in RG3, that's pretty much the mark of an owner who doesn't have the balls to stand up for himself.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1033157]If he sits idle while Shanahan wastes another season of his investment in RG3, that's pretty much the mark of an owner who doesn't have the balls to stand up for himself.[/quote]

You may be right but it's a no win situation really.. Fire a 'legendary coach' or sit on your hands and hope for the best, either way Snyder looks bad. Really Snyder's only out is to not offer him an extension making him a lame duck and hope that Shanahan quits/retires. I think Shanny's ego is way too big for that though.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Can we do an updated poll?

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Paintrain;1033158]You may be right but it's a no win situation really.. Fire a 'legendary coach' or sit on your hands and hope for the best, either way Snyder looks bad. Really Snyder's only out is to not offer him an extension making him a lame duck and hope that Shanahan quits/retires. I think Shanny's ego is way too big for that though.[/quote]Well, it's a no win situation if the goal is to not be criticized by anyone, but if the goal is to get it right and do the best thing to help the Redskins win, it's an easy and obvious decision.

Shanahan is a legendary coach for his accomplishments with the Denver Broncos, but he's been very forgettable here. The Broncos were making an aggressive move to fire the most successful coach in their franchise history. Shanahan hasn't even been the most successful Redskins coach of the Snyder era.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=The Goat;1032982]That's just nonsense. The worst teams/franchises in league history have been turned around completely in just three years. Mike's had that and more. This is a piss poor team because of him, period. Mike has had complete control from day one and is more responsible for his team than any other coach in the nfl.[/quote]

Yea, Cleveland, Detroit and Oakland are completely turned around and winning like crazy.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1033149]The difference with last year was dumb luck and momentum of a superhuman talent in Robert that won regular season games at the expense of the playoffs a d 2013 season.[/quote]

So how about those games were Robert had a hurt knee and was less than superhuman? (pretty much every game past Baltimore)

You think it was Rob's play in the last game of the season that won the NFC East crown for us? Not even close.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1032888][url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24072730/cowher-on-coaching-in-nfl-i-didnt-get-out-of-it-to-get-back-in]Bill Cowher on coaching in NFL: 'I didn't get out of it to get back in' - CBSSports.com[/url]


I concur. Doesn't sound like he's interested on any level.[/quote]

[url=http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/14/tom-brady-patriots-saints-monday-morning-quarterback/6/]Tom Brady-Kenbrell Thompkins TD latest magical moment for Patriots QB | The MMQB with Peter King[/url]

Funny you say that, because in this weeks MMQB Cowher basically says "never say never".

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=The Goat;1032982]That's just nonsense. The worst teams/franchises in league history have been turned around completely in just three years. Mike's had that and more. This is a piss poor team because of him, period. Mike has had complete control from day one and is more responsible for his team than any other coach in the nfl.[/quote]

This is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted on this forum, and that includes the drunk thread.

Tell me how Oakland has been turned around? Jacksonville? Didn't Mike Holmgren get run out of town in Cleveland b/c he didn't do sh*t? Arizona after Kurt Warner left?

Were any of those teams blindsided by a $36 million dollar cap penalty or had their QB taken out with a season ending injury during their playoff run?

None of us have anything to cheer about lately and everyone is entitled to complain about it. But this bitter biased bullsh*t you spew every day is ridiculous.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

I doubt that firing a supposedly legendary coach after four years, or 80% the way through, a five-year contract would have any impact whatsoever on the interest of desirable Head Coach candidates. That would hardly qualify as a rash act on the part of Dan Snyder, IMO.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1033194]This is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted on this forum, and that includes the drunk thread.

Tell me how Oakland has been turned around? Jacksonville? Didn't Mike Holmgren get run out of town in Cleveland b/c he didn't do sh*t? Arizona after Kurt Warner left?

Were any of those teams blindsided by a $36 million dollar cap penalty or had their QB taken out with a season ending injury during their playoff run?

None of us have anything to cheer about lately and everyone is entitled to complain about it. But this bitter biased bullsh*t you spew every day is ridiculous.[/quote]


Shhh... the shit he spews actually keeps my laughing. Dont make him stop.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

Actually what GOAT said isn't really all that crazy, Arizona went from a laughing stock to a SB contender after just a few good drafts and FA pick ups.

TB and NO did as well.

ALL 3 of those teams are considered 3 OF THE WORST TEAMS IN NFL HISTORY

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1033194]This is one of the dumbest things I've seen posted on this forum, and that includes the drunk thread.

Tell me how Oakland has been turned around? Jacksonville? Didn't Mike Holmgren get run out of town in Cleveland b/c he didn't do sh*t? Arizona after Kurt Warner left?

Were any of those teams blindsided by a $36 million dollar cap penalty or had their QB taken out with a season ending injury during their playoff run?

None of us have anything to cheer about lately and everyone is entitled to complain about it. But this bitter biased bullsh*t you spew every day is ridiculous.[/quote]

Oakland is two years in I believe and looking up, excellent defense and tons of cap room to work with after this season. Cleveland is a better team than the Redskins. Jax is Jax, I guess if that's who you want to keep company with there's no point in discussion.

On the other side of the ledger, you have myriad teams that have done it in three years roughly. Detroit best example IMO. Seattle is a good one like GTripp pointed out. Others have been pointed out as well.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1033225]Actually what GOAT said isn't really all that crazy, Arizona went from a laughing stock to a SB contender after just a few good drafts and FA pick ups.

TB and NO did as well.

ALL 3 of those teams are considered 3 OF THE WORST TEAMS IN NFL HISTORY[/quote]

Yes, but with every team you can use for example. I can add another. It's different scenario's in every organization. We've had a lot of things happen here that are not the same in NO or TB, vice versa.

I think we are closer than a lot of people think we are. I see the will to win from our team, and RG3 is getting better every week. He looked a little shaken last game from all the pressure, but at least we know his legs are coming back.

I still think we need a Playmaker on defense or Offense. I feel we have a solid group of players, but we really lack a AJ Green, Dez Bryant, Ed Reed, or Graham. Even the Browns have Morgan who has become a force on the field.

Shanhan's image was to bring in a bunch of hard workers that will go till the end, and even though it's a good thing we have that dedication. It's tough to compare to pure athletic ability. Our fastest, and most athletic player is our QB and we gave up a lot to get him where other teams draft their playmaker.

Now that we are not getting a 1st rounder next year, I would hope we put money in to a big free agent.

I'll go out on a limb and say we are 5-5 going against San Francisco.

Re: Who's your pick's for next HC, DC and OC?
 

In today's league teams can become contenders over night, it just takes some smart personnel moves and $$.