Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Chico23231;942926]You mean the same pension plan they've gotten from the league since the 70s?

Bingo!!!!, 9 billion industry a year. It should be a going forward action with new hires, you cant switch it up now.[/quote]

I never understand bringing up gross amounts in the discussion. It may be a 9billion dollar a year industry, but every part gets its share:
players get half of that +/-
coaches get some
FO staff and general employees get some
owners get some
and
refs get some.

The basic percentages are already laid out, clearly the NFL is trying to force the refs out of an outdated paradigm, again who else in the US is getting a fully funded pension as a part time employee?

Having said this, I just prefer that reffing in the games gets under control, regardless of which refs are actually running the games.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;942934][B]I never understand bringing up gross amounts in the discussion[/B]. It may be a 9billion dollar a year industry, but every part gets its share:
players get half of that +/-
coaches get some
FO staff and general employees get some
owners get some
and
refs get some.

The basic percentages are already laid out, clearly the NFL is trying to force the refs out of an outdated paradigm, again who else in the US is getting a fully funded pension as a part time employee?

Having said this, I just prefer that reffing in the games gets under control, regardless of which refs are actually running the games.[/quote]


Perspective and context. Wonder what NFL writes checks to each year...hard to find those numbers, that would provide even more context. Also its speaks to the risk the NFL would put on its product. What it worth to them. They would risk impact on games, playoffs, and player injury. The latter is really interesting. both sides of the mouf from Goondell and the owners on that.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Chico23231;942956]Perspective and context. [B]Wonder what NFL writes checks to each year...hard to find those numbers[/B], that would provide even more context. Also its speaks to the risk the NFL would put on its product. What it worth to them. They would risk impact on games, playoffs, and player injury. The latter is really interesting. both sides of the mouf from Goondell and the owners on that.[/quote]

I don't think those numbers are hard to find out. Packers have to disclose their numbers, the rest have been bandied about often times. As for the NFLRA, I believe every writer agrees that the NFL upped the straight cash numbers, the issue is how the pension is handled. Again seems like they could come to agreement somehow, but:
a) The refs all have other successful careers, so the NFL can't force it like they could with players

b) The refs are stuck on forcing the pension issue

c) the NFL isn't going to suffer financially regardless of how long this drags on

d) the NFL won't keep the same pension as in the past.

Ultimately there is just no leverage on either side to get this agreement done, and it's not a simple case of bad greedy owners, any more than it is evil money grubbing refs.

Stalemate

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

The two sides got together on Monday and Tuesday, but I guess nothing became of those talks?

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

For the record:

[url=http://www.denverpost.com/lunchspecial/ci_21601368/did-falcons-get-away-illegal-play-extinguish-rally?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter]Did Falcons get away with illegal play to extinguish rally by Broncos? - The Denver Post[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

From Bill Simmons' mailbag today. It was sad and funny at the same time (about replacement refs):

Q: [B]Can you create a "Bad Officiating Crew League" next year? I call dibs on the Falcons-Broncos crew … wait, I want the guys who did the Rams-Skins game. No wait, I want the Ravens-Eagles crew. Actually, just flip a coin for me.
—Brian Lang, Philadelphia[/B]

SG: We briefly tried to figure out the BOCL before realizing it would be too hard to keep track. To do the league right, you'd need categories like "Number of times the home team's fans chanted that you sucked," "Number of flags you meekly picked up while pretending that it never happened," "Number of times the announcers knew the rules but you didn't," "Number of near-melees that threatened to become the biggest brawl in NFL history" and "Longest and most interminable delay between the thrown flag and the resolution of that flag." [B][I]Either way, I'd pick the Rams-Redskins crew first in any BOCL draft — they looked the other way as the Rams were doing everything short of hitting Robert Griffin III with two-by-fours.[/I][/B]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

This is your ol' pal Counter-Tre with one of the replacement refs at the Saints vs. Skins game. [IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g15/Turd_Cutter/replacementref_zps3d16b113.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

:lol:

That sir is awesome...lol



(with the glasses on, you favor Dan Snyder)

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=firstdown;937403]I think you have that backwards. The longer it goes the better they will get and more of a chance for the NFL to tell the real ref's to go pound sand. I thought they did a pretty good job. A few non calls but I actually like the fact they let them play a little more not calling everthing they see. The one holding call they missed was the worse thing they did and even the announcers said that's an easy call to miss.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544
yes, last night wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, but that doesn't excuse it being absolutely putrid. I make a projection that after these scabs ruin a couple games through week 2, week 3 we will see Hoculi and his cohorts back on the field not calling holding penalties for Orakpo. Mark it down, these replacements wont get any better, they will only get worse as time goes on, and the outcry for the real refs to return will soon be a huge talking point in every medium of sports media.

The refs are getting worse. Now they are nervous, cause everyone is taling about them, looking at how bad they are calling these games. I have a feeling we will see alot of calls that shouldn't be called overreacted to moving forward, in a futile attempt to have some measure of control on the field. All they are going to do is piss players, coaches fans, and ultimately the NFL off. The real refs will eventually get their deal.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[url]https://m.nflplayers.com/articles.aspx?cat=Public-News&title=Letter-from-Executive-Committee-to-Owners-on-Ref-Lockout[/url]


[quote]

MEMORANDUM

TO: Owners of NFL Teams

FROM: NFLPA Executive Committee

DATE: September 20, 2012

RE: Your Lockout of the NFL Referees and the Negative Impact on Football



The NFL Players Association Executive Committee is calling on you to end the lockout of our referees. We believe there is substantial evidence that you have failed in your obligation to provide as safe a working environment as possible.

Your decision to lock out officials with more than 1,500 years of collective NFL experience has led to a deterioration of order, safety and integrity. This affirmative decision has not only resulted in poor calls, missed calls and bad game management, but the combination of those deficiencies will only continue to jeopardize player health and safety and the integrity of the game that has taken decades to build.

As we predicted and explained to you weeks ago, the removal of the veteran officials from regular season games left a group of your replacements who have proved to be incapable of keeping pace with the speed of the game. Coaches and players have complained of numerous errors and failures including: erratic and missed calls on egregious holds and hits, increased skirmishes between players and confusion about game rules. Many replacements have lost control of games due to inexperience and unfamiliarity with players and rules.

The headlines are embarrassing: a scab working a game despite having been on the payroll of one of the teams, another who was assigned to referee a team he publicly supported on Facebook, and one who is a professional poker player when you propose even more stringent player rules on gambling.

It is lost on us as to how you allow a Commissioner to cavalierly issue suspensions and fines in the name of player health and safety yet permit the wholesale removal of the officials that you trained and entrusted to maintain that very health and safety. It has been reported that the two sides are apart by approximately $60,000 per team. We note that your Commissioner has fined an individual player as much in the name of “safety.” Your actions are looking more and more like simple greed. As players, we see this game as more than the “product” you reference at times. You cannot simply switch to a group of cheaper officials and fulfill your legal, moral, and duty obligations to us and our fans. You need to end the lockout and bring back the officials immediately.

We are all men who love and respect this game and believe that it represents something beyond just money. For our teammates, our coaches and our fans who deserve better, vote to end this lockout now.

Sincerely,



Domonique Foxworth, NFLPA President

Charlie Batch, NFLPA Vice President, Pittsburgh Steelers

Cornelius Bennett, NFLPA Former Players Board of Directors Chairman

Drew Brees, NFLPA Vice President, New Orleans Saints

Brian Dawkins, NFLPA Vice President

Scott Fujita, NFLPA Vice President, Cleveland Browns

Matt Hasselbeck, NFLPA Vice President, Tennessee Titans

Brandon Moore, NFLPA Vice President, New York Jets

Jeff Saturday, NFLPA Vice President, Green Bay Packers

Mickey Washington, NFLPA Former Players Board of Directors Member

Brian Waters, NFLPA Vice President, New England Patriots

Benjamin Watson, NFLPA Vice President, Cleveland Browns
[/quote]


These ****ing moron owners are holding out for $60,000 (per team)?? Are you shitting me?...lol

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Wow, I'm watching the Oakland vs Pitt game and you should see the ridiculous helmet-to-helmet/launching with the head/defenseless receiver call that was missed on the field. The ref was standing right there and totally missed a Steelers defender absolutely obliterate DHB, who is now being carted off the field.

These stupid F's are going to get someone seriously hurt.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;944116]Wow, I'm watching the Oakland vs Pitt game and you should see the ridiculous helmet-to-helmet/launching with the head/defenseless receiver call that was missed on the field. The ref was standing right there and totally missed a Steelers defender absolutely obliterate DHB, who is now being carted off the field.

These stupid F's are going to get someone seriously hurt.[/quote]

It just might be DHB, the announcers just said it's a potential neck injury. I commented more on your post in the ATNFL thread though, but I'm just gonna copy/paste that here:

[quote=myself; Around the NFL week 3 thread]
Yeah, they could've gotten him for helmet-to-helmet or hitting a defenseless receiver on that one. Sometimes it feels like they are just standing there enjoying the experience too much to pay attention. Like the Steve Smith-Corey Webster wrestling match the other day where the ref stood right next to them and did nothing, it's ridiculous. I didn't think they were as bad this week as they were last week, but that's not saying much. They still aren't nearly as good as the regular refs.
[/quote]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

After no flag on that DHB hit, and that letter being made public, Id wager we'll see the replacement refs back either next week or the week after. This has got to stop.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Anyone else think that when the real refs come back they are going to be BALL breakers?

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;944162]Anyone else think that when the real refs come back they are going to be BALL breakers?[/quote]They need to be. How is there no flag on the Heyward-Bey hit? Helmet to chin, and he was out cold before he even hit the ground. Somebody is going to get seriously hurt with these clowns calling games.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SouperMeister;944168]They need to be. How is there no flag on the Heyward-Bey hit? Helmet to chin, and he was out cold before he even hit the ground. Somebody is going to get seriously hurt with these clowns calling games.[/quote]

Agreed. Just think that Ed Hochuli might literally rip out someone's throat if they mouth off!

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;944162]Anyone else think that when the real refs come back they are going to be BALL breakers?[/QUOTE]

Yup. But they have to be, because the players need to be reigned in.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Absolutely love NFLPA's letter

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

I think one of these days we're going to see a fight break out like the Artest brawl in these games.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Ruhskins;944237]I think one of these days we're going to see a fight break out like the Artest brawl in these games.[/quote]

Yeah... Between the coaches and the replacement refs.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jim-harbaugh-cons-replacement-refs-two-extra-challenges-014552673--nfl.html#more-30048]Jim Harbaugh cons replacement refs out of two extra challenges | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Classic. Refs didn't know you need a timeout to challenge a play, and he granted Jim Harbaugh not one, but two free challenges because Harbaugh conned him into it. Smart.

And I'm going to follow that one up with this one:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/matt-schaub-loses-piece-ear-illegal-hit-013507090--nfl.html]Matt Schaub loses piece of ear on illegal hit | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

That link has a picture of his ear in there, that's pretty nasty. The hit in question was a helmet-to-helmet hit too. That sucks.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=mooby;944315][url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jim-harbaugh-cons-replacement-refs-two-extra-challenges-014552673--nfl.html#more-30048]Jim Harbaugh cons replacement refs out of two extra challenges | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Classic. Refs didn't know you need a timeout to challenge a play, and he granted Jim Harbaugh not one, but two free challenges because Harbaugh conned him into it. Smart.

And I'm going to follow that one up with this one:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/matt-schaub-loses-piece-ear-illegal-hit-013507090--nfl.html]Matt Schaub loses piece of ear on illegal hit | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

That link has a picture of his ear in there, that's pretty nasty. The hit in question was a helmet-to-helmet hit too. That sucks.[/quote]

I stopped counting the number of helmet-to-helmet hits today. It was ridiculous.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Ruhskins;944318]I stopped counting the number of helmet-to-helmet hits today. It was ridiculous.[/quote]

I didn't count, but only because I felt like I didn't have enough fingers and toes to keep track of them.

Also, ESPN had a decent [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8418497/referees-mistakes-shaky-calls-week-3-themes"]summary[/URL] of all the bad calls today.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

I don't understand how coaches like Belicheat and even our own Shanny don't take the complaints to their owners and ask for the ref lockout to end.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Ruhskins;944411]I don't understand how coaches like Belicheat and even our own Shanny don't take the complaints to their owners and ask for the ref lockout to end.[/quote]

I've thought that coaches must be doing that but owners must not be listening. But who knows.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Mechanix544;944155]After no flag on that DHB hit, and that letter being made public, Id wager we'll see the replacement refs back either next week or the week after. This has got to stop.[/quote]

The play before, Streater took a headshot and was down for a while.

The dirty teams like the Steelers and Rams are pushing the limits with these replacement refs. They're testing them to see what they're able to get away with, disregarding what the rules say. They might get fined later but during the game, if it's helping them win, they'll still do it.

It's putting players at risk. There's nothing resembling safety in the league as long as the replacement refs are here.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

I think its great the refs are actually allowing them to play footbal and make a few hits. Now the other stuff is stupid but the hitting has been great.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

The refs aren't "allowing them to play", they simply don't know how to correctly call an NFL game.

Big difference.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=Mattyk;944941]The refs aren't "allowing them to play", they simply don't know how to correctly call an NFL game.

Big difference.[/quote]Exactly. And this hit isn't "allowing them to play" it's dangerous and dirty and exactly the kind of potentially life altering shot the the NFL claims it's trying to eliminate. To not even throw a flag here is completely inexcusable.

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1421709/dhbhit.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.steelersdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bey-mundy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

From this angle, it looks like Baltimore missed that FG Sunday night, and Ravens fans say as much at the end of the video: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWmyT2_Kv14&feature=player_embedded]barstoolsports.com viva la stool Missed Field Goal - YouTube[/url]

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SouperMeister;945158]From this angle, it looks like Baltimore missed that FG Sunday night, and Ravens fans say as much at the end of the video: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWmyT2_Kv14&feature=player_embedded]barstoolsports.com viva la stool Missed Field Goal - YouTube[/url][/quote]

perspective is screwed up in that video. You need to see a side shot, along with that one to actually position the ball the moment it is in the plane of the goal post.

For me though with the advancement of photography, it seems like every goal post ought to have 2 cameras with a wide angle lens and a circle of the post overlaid on it. In this case you could frame by frame it, and see how the ball crosses. I would hope that if it was so wide as to not be in the video, then the refs could make the call. But that might be hoping too much.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

last night was atrocious

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;944952]Exactly. And this hit isn't "allowing them to play" it's dangerous and dirty and exactly the kind of potentially life altering shot the the NFL claims it's trying to eliminate. To not even throw a flag here is completely inexcusable.

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1421709/dhbhit.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.steelersdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bey-mundy.gif[/IMG][/quote]


A few months ago we were having a discussion on here about ST21 and how we wont see another vicious hitter like him anymore because of all the player safety rules. But I was thinking this morning that if ST21 was still alive he would be an absolute nightmare for NFL teams with the kind of hitting the replacement refs are allowing.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;945189]A few months ago we were having a discussion on here about ST21 and how we wont see another vicious hitter like him anymore because of all the player safety rules. But I was thinking this morning that if ST21 was still alive he would be an absolute nightmare for NFL teams with the kind of hitting the replacement refs are allowing.[/quote]Take a look at the YouTube videos of Sean, and while he was a devastating hitter, he was not a head hunter. Almost all of his greatest hits were led by a shoulder to the sternum, with my all time favorite being the hit on Patrick Crayton at the end of the Monday Night Miracle in Dallas (should have been ruled a fumble!!!)

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=SouperMeister;945193]Take a look at the YouTube videos of Sean, and while he was a devastating hitter, he was not a head hunter. Almost all of his greatest hits were led by a shoulder to the sternum, with my all time favorite being the hit on Patrick Crayton at the end of the Monday Night Miracle in Dallas (should have been ruled a fumble!!!)[/quote]

Good point. And yes it was a fumble.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

Just heard Clay Matthews posted Roger Goodell's phone number on facebook lmao

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;944952]Exactly. And this hit isn't "allowing them to play" it's dangerous and dirty and exactly the kind of potentially life altering shot the the NFL claims it's trying to eliminate. To not even throw a flag here is completely inexcusable.

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1421709/dhbhit.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.steelersdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bey-mundy.gif[/IMG][/quote]

To me this is a clean hard hit and the defender seperates the ball from the wr. It's violent but just cause it's violent doesn't mean it's dirty.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

that is a helmet to helmet hit, he put his head down and launched up. Dirty and unnecessary.

PS- The way the defender acted after the hit is inexcusable as well. Just that should get his ass a huge fine, just for being a fukkin jerk.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;944952]Exactly. And this hit isn't "allowing them to play" it's dangerous and dirty and exactly the kind of potentially life altering shot the the NFL claims it's trying to eliminate. To not even throw a flag here is completely inexcusable.

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1421709/dhbhit.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.steelersdepot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/bey-mundy.gif[/IMG][/quote]

That gif doesn't show the best angle. From the back it looks clean. I can't copy the gif but

[url=http://www.buzzfeed.com/ktlincoln/why-the-repacement-refs-are-horrible-and-dangerous]Why The Replacement Refs Are Horrible And Dangerous, In One GIF[/url]

has the view from the front and to me it looks a little incidental that the top of #29's helmet hits Hey-Bey's chin. Still unfortunate nevertheless and I'm glad he's okay.

Re: Replacement refs: The story the NFL wants to keep quiet
 

[IMG]http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal05/2012/9/17/15/anigif_enhanced-buzz-26520-1347910428-6.gif[/IMG]

This didn't get a flag either............out of control.