Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

RG3 over Luck is the evaluation that tape guys give you when they look at two game tapes for each from this year and conclude that they see more difficult throws out of Griffin than Luck. Like that means something.

I mean, guys like Merril Hoge and Greg Cosell aren't just making stuff up/have no idea what they're talking about, but when you use less than 5% of the information available to you, I treat your opinion like you ignored 95% of the relevant information. Sometimes people who are highly qualified to give an informed opinion are a lot less qualified to make a direct conclusion.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;902409]RG3 over Luck is the evaluation that tape guys give you when they look at two game tapes for each from this year and conclude that they see more difficult throws out of Griffin than Luck. Like that means something.

I mean, guys like Merril Hoge and Greg Cosell aren't just making stuff up/have no idea what they're talking about, but when you use less than 5% of the information available to you, I treat your opinion like you ignored 95% of the relevant information. Sometimes people who are highly qualified to give an informed opinion are a lot less qualified to make a direct conclusion.[/quote]

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Merril Hoge, but apparently he watched 120 hours of film of RGIII and Luck. So say he split it 50/50. I find it hard to believe that 60 hours of RGIII only represents 5% of the info available of him.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;902403]Most say luck is safer.. why.? It's not like RG3 has any red flags[/quote]

Success in a pro style offense (70%+ completion percentage last two seasons along with given the responsibility to make audibles at the line of scrimmage) combined with his ideal physical makeup for the position. Luck was also coached by Harbaugh so theres that.

RG3 comes from a spread system. Harder to figure out if numbers are more a product of ability or system. He has slightly better physical tools then Luck but he still comes form a gimmicky offense which makes him harder to project at the next level.

Scouts Inc's report might shed some light on this issue.

[B]Luck:[/B]
[quote]Has great experience and shoulders a lot of responsibility conducting a pro-style offense. Is a natural when it comes to checking off the safety. Also shows the ability to go through progression reads.[/quote]

[url=http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2011/10/02/stanford-football-luck-calls-his-own-plays-in-manning-esque-fashion/]Stanford football: Luck calls his own plays in Manning-esque fashion | College Hotline[/url]

[B]Griffin:[/B]
[quote]Baylor's offense does not translate to the NFL game. Has a lot to learn about identifying coverages and hot reads. Had very simple reads, and there is very little tape of him checking from one side of the field to the other. [/quote]

The arm strength and 40 times wow fans. The stuff I posted above is the most important criteria among scouts and it's hard to quantify that through the combie fueled pre-draft process.

Also in regards to why Luck is safer, keep in mind Luck has never torn an ACL or left a game with concussion like symptoms. His only medical red flag was a broken finger that kept him out of the Sun Bowl against Oklahoma in 2009.

Both QB's have elite physical skill sets. However Luck has proven he's capable of running a pro style offense at the highest level (audibles, pre snap reads, looking off safeties, going through progressions, etc). Griffin is certainly more than capable of learning and eventually running a pro style offense but there's no tape of him doing it in college. Hence the difference between Luck being the "safe" pick and RG3 being the prospect with all the "upside."

Personally if you ask me they're both safe picks, Luck is just a little safer given his medical and experience in a pro style offense.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;902411]Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Merril Hoge, but apparently he watched 120 hours of film of RGIII and Luck. So say he split it 50/50. I find it hard to believe that 60 hours of RGIII only represents 5% of the info available of him.[/quote]Point wasn't the number of hours invested in it (I haven't kept track of what I've spent on studying those two guys), but the fact that if you use just one medium (in this case, game tape), you only ever see a percentage of the relevant skills.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

so i see alot of comparison between rg3 and vick. but how would you guys rate him agianst some of the younger quarterbacks in the league? like matt ryan, sam bradford, matt stafford or cam newton?

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=alaskaN8;902422]so i see alot of comparison between rg3 and vick. but how would you guys rate him agianst some of the younger quarterbacks in the league? like matt ryan, sam bradford, matt stafford or cam newton?[/quote]

I'd rate him pretty highly among that group, would put his potential at this point higher than all except maybe Cam.

Do you think RG3 has a stronger more accurate deep ball arm then Cam Newton?
I would say I think RG3 is more accurate but not sure on the bigger arm.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

If Luck has a great Pro Day today, I'll be on Cloud 9!

Even if he doesn't, I won't worry a bit about our future at QB. I sincerely believe that we can't lose by picking either Luck or RGIII.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;902411]Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Merril Hoge, but apparently he watched 120 hours of film of RGIII and Luck. So say he split it 50/50. I find it hard to believe that 60 hours of RGIII only represents 5% of the info available of him.[/quote]

Even if it was, that still beats Joe fan watching some YouTube clips.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=alaskaN8;902422]so i see alot of comparison between rg3 and vick. but how would you guys rate him agianst some of the younger quarterbacks in the league? like matt ryan, sam bradford, matt stafford or cam newton?[/quote]

Most everything I have found dismisses the comparisons to Vick. He's at a better place in his development than Vick was at this point. I get uncomfortable with the comparison because I think it has more to do with the fact that they're both African-American than anything. It's a lazy parallel to draw.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

RG3 is far superior as a passer than Vick ever was or ever will be. I agree, it's a lazy comparison. Not fair to RG3 at all.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;902452]If Luck has a great Pro Day today, I'll be on Cloud 9!

Even if he doesn't, I won't worry a bit about our future at QB. I sincerely believe that we can't lose by picking either Luck or RGIII.[/quote]
You can't, Luck is the best QB prospect most of us have ever seen (for the young guys).

I'm predicting a Matt Ryan impact from day 1.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

maybe it takes him a while to adust to the pros. I'd be shocked if he wasn't considered at least very good by the end of year 3 though. i think very good is the floor on this guy.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

Just curious as to how different a scripted pro day is different from a non scripted combine. How many hours did RGIII practice with his recievers on that scripted pro day? Can't wait to see Luck on his pro day to see if his is scripted as well, if so it is a waste of time and money to go through it because it is useless. JMHO.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=tmandoug1;902509]Just curious as to how different a scripted pro day is different from a non scripted combine. How many hours did RGIII practice with his recievers on that scripted pro day? Can't wait to see Luck on his pro day to see if his is scripted as well, if so it is a waste of time and money to go through it because it is useless. JMHO.[/quote]

Luck's will be scripted as well. All pro days are for QBs.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

Anyone know if Snyder and the Shanahan's are coming to see Luck today?

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;902517]Anyone know if Snyder and the Shanahan's are coming to see Luck today?[/quote]

Yes

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;902517]Anyone know if Snyder and the Shanahan's are coming to see Luck today?[/quote]I'm pretty sure I heard on Comcast SN that they flew straight from Waco, TX to CA after RGIII's workout.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

Random question that may be in the wrong thread/may have already been asked.

If the Colts decide they want Luck and are able to ink him to a contract before the draft, and the Skins allowed to start negotiating with RGIII right away?

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

Thanks!

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;902483]Most everything I have found dismisses the comparisons to Vick. He's at a better place in his development than Vick was at this point. I get uncomfortable with the comparison because I think it has more to do with the fact that they're both African-American than anything. It's a lazy parallel to draw.[/quote]

I've also come to the conclusion that it's not even an accurate comparison. RGIII doesn't have anything close to Vicks agility (no one does at the QB position). Sure he has similar straight line speed and good agility but it's not like the cut Vick makes to escape.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;902483]Most everything I have found dismisses the comparisons to Vick. He's at a better place in his development than Vick was at this point. I get uncomfortable with the comparison because I think it has more to do with the fact that they're both African-American than anything. It's a lazy parallel to draw.[/quote]

Well put, but something they do have in common is the deep ball. That was Vick's best pass at VT & sounds like it is for RGIII as well. I don't know enough about RGIII's accuracy in a variety of routes, but Vick needed quite a bit of fine tuning on some intermediate routes when he was drafted.

Plus, RGIII is sooo much smarter & much more comfortable w/the public attention & press. That's a big deal in these times & I think is often why some players, especially QBs, fail. See Ryan Leaf.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;902487]RG3 is far superior as a passer than Vick ever was or ever will be. I agree, it's a lazy comparison. Not fair to RG3 at all.[/quote]

I called griffin a better Michael Vick with the disclaimer that I hated the comparison. In every respect, griffin is superior. However, you can't hate on the comparison too much because Vick is the closest thing to griffin that has ever been in the league. That's why I honestly prefer griffin to luck. A player with his athleticism, passing accuracy, intelligence, and leadership has never played the position. Never. Vick caused enormous problems for defenses because if his ability to make plays with his feet... And he wasn't as much of a passing theat. Imagine the problems griffin would create. He could be nearly unstoppable.

Luck is great, but he can be stopped with a tradition defense as long as players do their job. Griffin is going to require a lot of exotic defensive schemes. I he meets his potential, the only way defenses will be able to stop him is if he makes a mistake.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

I know we've all got RG3 fever, but I think alot of people continue to underestimate Luck's athleticism. He can get out of the pocket and make things happen too. He's not just a pocket guy.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;902534]I know we've all got RG3 fever, but I think alot of people continue to underestimate Luck's athleticism. He can get out of the pocket and make things happen too. He's not just a pocket guy.[/quote]

Didn't he run the same 40 time as Cam Newton? That is some serious athleticism for a guy his size.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;902521]Random question that may be in the wrong thread/may have already been asked.

If the Colts decide they want Luck and are able to ink him to a contract before the draft, and the Skins allowed to start negotiating with RGIII right away?[/quote]

From what I recall, no. Either way the Colts aren't going to rush to sign their pick and neither will the Redskins. Not as much pressure as in previous years

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;902531]I called griffin a better Michael Vick with the disclaimer that I hated the comparison. In every respect, griffin is superior. However, you can't hate on the comparison too much because Vick is the closest thing to griffin that has ever been in the league. That's why I honestly prefer griffin to luck. A player with his athleticism, passing accuracy, intelligence, and leadership has never played the position. Never. Vick caused enormous problems for defenses because if his ability to make plays with his feet... And he wasn't as much of a passing theat. Imagine the problems griffin would create. He could be nearly unstoppable.

Luck is great, but he can be stopped with a tradition defense as long as players do their job. Griffin is going to require a lot of exotic defensive schemes. I he meets his potential, the only way defenses will be able to stop him is if he makes a mistake.[/quote]

before anyone compares RG3 to Vick let him get on the field. The line could wrap around the planet several times who called Vick a bust back then. 10 years later runner up to MVP. laughable. People already puttin RG3 in the HOF. I remember Jamarcus Russell claimed to have the best pro day ever as well. scout were drooling.

Comparing Vick to RG3 is flat out retarded. Vick is an atheletic freak, and no one can compare. Vick happened to play QB and as a passer is pretty average, but still much better than people ever believed he would be. There will never be a another Vick. RG3 is a quarterback and needs to be compared to top passers who have come out the draft in the last 10 years.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

Of ALL the BS, Speculation, JUBILATION, etc that I am want to enjoy with thoughts of RG3 or Luck. What I enjoy the most is the thought that the other respective members of the NFC East are thinking...........Uh-oh...
WAY tired of being a non-factor......

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;902202]id be alot of sad, i like griffin over luck. i hope the colts dont want to move away from the manning mold[/quote]

Luck fits the Colts offense. He's even more mobile than Manning which he'll need to be with their line.

Griffin fits ours perfectly.

Both teams will get exactly the QB they need. Swap the QBs and they'll still be successful, but Luck to the Colts and RG3 to us are the best fits.

I'm not worried about the Colts taking our guy. Reports are that they've had their mind made up for a while.


[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_jim_irsay_peyton_manning_colts_andrew_luck022512]Jim Irsay seizes full control of Colts from Peyton Manning, ready to rebuild with Andrew Luck - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/6439/andrew-luck]Recent news on Andrew Luck - College Player - Rotoworld.com[/url]
[url=http://www.indystar.com/article/20120309/SPORTS03/203090318/1058/SPORTS03]Next up: Like Manning, next rookie QB will start immediately | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com[/url]

[QUOTE=Monkeydad;902559]Luck fits the Colts offense. He's even more mobile than Manning which he'll need to be with their line.

Griffin fits ours perfectly.

Both teams will get exactly the QB they need. Swap the QBs and they'll still be successful, but Luck to the Colts and RG3 to us are the best fits.

I'm not worried about the Colts taking our guy. Reports are that they've had their mind made up for a while.


[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ms-silver_jim_irsay_peyton_manning_colts_andrew_luck022512]Jim Irsay seizes full control of Colts from Peyton Manning, ready to rebuild with Andrew Luck - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/6439/andrew-luck]Recent news on Andrew Luck - College Player - Rotoworld.com[/url]
[url=http://www.indystar.com/article/20120309/SPORTS03/203090318/1058/SPORTS03]Next up: Like Manning, next rookie QB will start immediately | Indianapolis Star | indystar.com[/url][/QUOTE]

This

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=mbedner3420;902538]Didn't he run the same 40 time as Cam Newton? That is some serious athleticism for a guy his size.[/quote]

Not officially. But one of his unofficial times did clock in at 4.59.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[QUOTE=alaskaN8;902422]so i see alot of comparison between rg3 and vick. but how would you guys rate him agianst some of the younger quarterbacks in the league? like matt ryan, sam bradford, matt stafford or cam newton?[/QUOTE]Comparisons need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Even though people should already realize the inherent flaws of making non-specific player to player comparisons they still get all bent out them.
The [I][B]skillset[/B][/I] comparison between Vick and RGIII is legitimate.
First there is the dynamic speed quite frankly there are no other QBs capable of running sub 4.4 40 time they form a category that only contains them.
Then there's the: running ability, overall build, above average arm strength.

Re: rate him (as a prospect) against some of the younger quarterbacks in the league?
Newton(I had Newton ahead of Luck last year so my ranking isn't aided by hindsight of Newton's success this year)
Stafford
RGIII
Luck
Bradford/Ryan

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;902534]I know we've all got RG3 fever, but I think alot of people continue to underestimate Luck's athleticism. He can get out of the pocket and make things happen too. He's not just a pocket guy.[/quote]

[YT]6Ow8fJmRwZs[/YT]


Listen to what Mayock says in the background. This is no Drew Bledsoe people.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

what makes it official or unofficial? i dont get what dictates that, bc suppsedly rg3 ran an unofficial 4.38

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

I've seen some stupid shit being said, but this might take the cake. (ES idiot no doubt)


[quote]If I was the Colts, even if I was 100% sold on Luck and had no interest at all in RG3, I would still pick him to see what the Skins or anyone else would be willing to trade for him, if I set my price too high and get no bidders, then worst case scenario you are "stuck" with the franchise QB you didn't want, which really is not all that bad. [/quote]

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

^ Gotta love stupid.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=FRPLG;902483]Most everything I have found dismisses the comparisons to Vick. He's at a better place in his development than Vick was at this point. [I][B] I get uncomfortable with the comparison because I think it has more to do with the fact that they're both African-American than anything. It's a lazy parallel to draw.[/B][/I][/quote]

I've been thinking this for a while but haven't had the balls to say it honestly. In essence, RGIII is nothing like Vick except for speed. The comparisons to Steve Young are more accurate because he's not so shifty as he is fast. And just like Young he uses his feet to move the pocket versus using his feet to run for the first down.

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=mbedner3420;902538]Didn't he run the same 40 time as Cam Newton? That is some serious athleticism for a guy his size.[/quote]
[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/971739/simul.gif[/IMG]


Winner = RG3
White guy = Luck
Other guy = Newton

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

damn he is fast

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;902612][IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/971739/simul.gif[/IMG]


Winner = RG3
White guy = Luck
Other guy = Newton[/quote]

That's badass dude thanks...

Re: The Pro Days Thread
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;902607]I've been thinking this for a while but haven't had the balls to say it honestly. In essence, RGIII is nothing like Vick except for speed. The comparisons to Steve Young are more accurate because he's not so shifty as he is fast. And just like Young he uses his feet to move the pocket versus using his feet to run for the first down.[/quote]

yeah both are fast (Vick though is faster). the problem in that comparison, skillset of being fast is not comparable because one is a run-first, make plays with his feet another rarely leaves the pocket to scramble. 1 is a scrambler and 1 is a pocket passer. 2 VERY VERY DIFFERENT STYLES. This comparison is extremely poor