Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884311]If we traded down from #6 to the 12-15 range, we likely could still get Tannehill and have extra picks to boot.

Manning + Tannehill + extra picks = WIN[/quote]

Possible but who is there at #6 that will cause someone to make that move up? Only person i can envision is RG3 but then i would want to stay there and draft him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mooby;884310]On the bright side the cost to move up in the 2nd round or the end of the first is nothing compared to the cost of moving from the 6th pick to the first or second overall.[/quote]

It would likely cause us next years #1 pick to move up from our #2 to somewhere in the 20's to take Tannehill. And if I am giving up next years #1 then i want RG3.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=celts32;884313]Possible but who is there at #6 that will cause someone to make that move up? Only person i can envision is RG3 but then i would want to stay there and draft him.[/quote]

Claiborne, Blackmon, Richardson, Coples, Rieff, Floyd...one of these guys could fall to 6 and have someone jonesing for them. It just takes one smitten team.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I voted for RG3 the thing is its all about the deal. If the Rams try to trade rape us then no.... Yes i want a young quarterback and yes RG3 would be great but were not good enough to have a draft of nobody. We need another solid draft and a guy like RG3 to be relevant. I'm actually hoping for a trade down with anyone to either draft Tannehill or Weeden. Yes they won't be at good at first but we need just be patient and develop them.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

It's not as simple as asking to choose between RGIII and Peyton. The real question is which package would you rather have?


Which would you choose?


Package A:

1) RGIII


Package B:
1) Peyton Manning (while using 3rd rounder to draft Kirk Cousins)
2) Reily Reiff -OT (1st)
3) Alfonso Denard-CB (2nd)
4) Lucas Nix -OG (4th)

5) Manti Te'o - ILB (2013 1st)
6) Orhian Johnson -SS (2013 4th)

This is not an acccurate assesment of what is needed to get RGIII. If RGIII is picked by the skins they could still have their remaining picks this year under one scenario.
1) RGIII
2)2012 2nd rounder
3)2012 3rd rounder
4)2012 4th rounder
5)2012 5th rounder
6)2012 6th rounder
Would all still be available for the skins

They would probably have to surrender the 2012 1st, 2013 1st, and possibly Orakpo to make this happen, But in no way would they have to surrender the whole 2012 draft to get RGIII, that is ridiculous. No one is considering that Orakpo has possibly peaked and is very tradable at this point. Jeff Fisher would probably see this deal as 3 first rounders for the no.2 pick this year. Very doable.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

How about neither. Manning's probably done or too risky to take a chance on. To move up and get RG3 means parting with multiple draft picks. It's very simple. This team isn't winning the Super Bowl next year with either player. Keep your picks and keep having productive drafts. That's the only way this team is going to have a shot at being becoming a constant winner.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

If we have to choose 1, that is the question pick 1, then PM because we get to keep picks & possibly trade back & pick up more picks and draft talent & depth the 2011 draft spoiled me.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=celts32;884283]Exactly. It baffles me that a fan base that has not had a franchise QB in almost 30 years is worried about 3 draft picks. We are still building the right way. Giving up 3 extra draft picks to solve a generation long QB problem does not mean that Vinny is coming back...[/quote]

It baffles me that RGIII is the only QB who is or will turn out to be a franchise QB not only out of this draft but future drafts as well. We have not even seen him play. What happens when you draft him and he failed to grasp the footwork for back peddling from the center? Or fails to grasp the pro style of play?

I guess it's nice to have all those FA's, with no one but Grossman to throw to them.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mattyk;884297]I'm borrowing from Smootsmack:

Reasons for Peyton Manning to want to come here

-He respects Shanahan and knows Shanahan is an established, Super Bowl winning head coach

-Redskins have the cap flexibility to be active in free agency and the draft picks to be active in the draft

-He (supposedly) prefer the East Coast

-He enjoys the spotlight

[B]-He's very tight with an executive in the organization[/B][/quote]

Who?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884321]It baffles me that RGIII is the only QB who is or will turn out to be a franchise QB not only out of this draft but future drafts as well. We have not even seen him play. What happens when you draft him and he failed to grasp the footwork for back peddling from the center? Or fails to grasp the pro style of play?

I guess it's nice to have all those FA's, with no one but Grossman to throw to them.[/quote]

To me Girffin looks like a young Michael Vick with a MUCH better head on his shoulders. I don't think he'll have a problem with his footwork or being under center. If Vick can do it then so can he. He'll have to take real deep drops like Vick does. I just think whoever gets him is going to have to design an offense like Philly has done. A lot of deep stuff and staying in shotgun a lot.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfan69;884323]Who?[/quote]

Mr. Synders banker

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfan69;884323]Who?[/quote]

Him and Tony Wylie used to be huge wiffleball buddies back at UT.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=whistler;884317]They would probably have to surrender the 2012 1st, 2013 1st, and possibly Orakpo to make this happen, [U][B]But in no way would they have to surrender the whole 2012 draft to get RGIII, that is ridiculous[/B][/U]. No one is considering that Orakpo has possibly peaked and is very tradable at this point. Jeff Fisher would probably see this deal as 3 first rounders for the no.2 pick this year. Very doable.[/quote]


I don't think you've seen anybody suggest they would have to give up their whole 2012 draft. My scenario was a rough draft of the approximate costs give or take a pick or sliding one of those picks down/up. It's still going to take a lot. More than we can afford to give up.

However, based on the points, that's about what it would take.

If we had to give up Orakpo and our 2012 1st for RGIII, I would probably do that providing no other picks were involved.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=redskins5044;884325]Mr. Synders banker[/quote]


ZING!!


[IMG]http://files.sharenator.com/well_played_45585740437_FunnyWeirdAwesome_Pictures_2_36_Pics-s332x360-250064-580.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=celts32;884289][B]Thats highly speculative. A trade down is not always available when you want it.[/B] Regardless that's not really the point. I don't care how many picks it is...I want the QB problem solved LONG TERM. The teams that win consistently in this league are the ones with the franchise QB's. We need to get one if we want to be something more then a surprise playoff team every now and then.
QUOTE]

Just like trading up is just as speculative. There is a lot of unknowns,

What are the Rams asking for? not what we think it should be but what are the Rams asking for?

Are the Rams even willing to trade? maybe they want RGIII?

I think we all want the QB position locked up LONG TERM. But there is no guarentee with RGIII either. Which is why I'm not up for tossing 4+ picks at just one person in hopes he is and possibly later finding out he's not. Now if this was Drew Brees, or Eli Manning or an already established proven QB then I'm all in and would throw 4+ draft picks for the team to get him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfan69;884323]Who?[/quote]

You'd like for me to deliver that info to you?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Hopefully, this is the last time that we will be picking in the top 10. In other words, the last time we will have the opportunity to draft a top 10 QB talent...even if we have to trade upon for it.

Otherwise you will be giving up Julio Jones compensation to get Barkley next year...for example.

Trade for Griffin now, so we can avoid the QB convo next year. Worked for the Giants in 2004.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mattyk;884295]Interesting that some continue to think that. Why I'm really not sure.[/quote]

Because they want to muddy the waters. They also say that the Skins are too far off to try and get a Peyton Manning who will only be here 3 yrs if at all and keeping the Skins from getting a young QB to develope who is a franchise QB.

Too far off but they want to throw 4+ picks away to get one player. A franchise player and RGIII is not a franchise player. Atleast not yet. Right now all he is is a really good college QB just like Luck.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;884330]You'd like for me to deliver that info to you?[/quote]

Can you deliver that in a Haiku?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

3,000+ posts in just over a year.

Someone needs a social life...
No, social networking doesn't count.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'd honestly like to get both. Cause theres no guarantee we get griffin, even if attempt to trade up, in the draft. And theres no guarantee that manning can throw the same ever again. One you give up money for, the other you give up money and draft picks for. I dunno, guys this QB situation is looking pretty shaky to me being that we just had to keep winning these meaningless games (seattle, arizona, NY). Think of it like this had we of lost one, just One of those games, we would have been drafting ahead of Cleveland the real major threat of getting griffin.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;884335]I'd honestly like to get both. Cause theres no guarantee we get griffin, even if attempt to trade up, in the draft. And theres no guarantee that manning can throw the same ever again. One you give up money for, the other you give up money and draft picks for. I dunno, guys this QB situation is looking pretty shaky to me being that we just had to keep winning these meaningless games (seattle, arizona, NY). Think of it like this had we of lost one, just One of those games, we would have been drafting ahead of Cleveland the real major threat of getting griffin.[/quote]

The Arizona game was early in the season.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=hooskins;884296]So I haven't been on the Path in a bit and please present a counter to my points.

[B][U]Why Peyton would come here:[/U][/B]
-Shanny
-Prestige?

[B][U]Why Peyton wouldn't come here:[/U][/B]
-He would be fighting for a playoff spot against his brother twice a year
-Cold weather
-We have missing parts on the offense

Just my two cents.[/quote]

#1- yes Shanny.
#2- yes he might like to play against his brother twice a yr. he'd get to see him.
#3- I think we are closer to a play off spot vs. any of the other teams who would want and need his services.
#4- Our team was the only team to beat the SB team twice last year.
#5- our defense is better then some would like to believe.

Maybe the Skins offer him the best chance to get to the SB out of all the teams that might still want him, and wouldn't he want to get a second ring to secure his HOF possibilities and to be able to have a second ring like his brother?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884303]I didn't just pull that scenario from fantasy land.[/quote]

Yeah, you kind of did. None of those trades you mention have the trading up teams giving up as much as you have us doing, save for the Leaf fiasco.

If next year's first was considered to have the value of this year's second, then we would be giving up more than the full price of the value chart without giving up the two 4ths you include. And every organiztion worth anything realizes a future 1st is worth more than that.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=Son Of Man;884334]3,000+ posts in just over a year.



Someone needs a social life...

No, social networking doesn't count.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't even come close to my record.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Lotus;884315]Claiborne, Blackmon, Richardson, Coples, Rieff, Floyd...one of these guys could fall to 6 and have someone jonesing for them. It just takes one smitten team.[/quote]

All it takes is for two other teams to want the same player. Possibly a OT or DL or maybe a LB.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfan69;884324]To me Girffin looks like a young Michael Vick with a MUCH better head on his shoulders. I don't think he'll have a problem with his footwork or being under center. If Vick can do it then so can he. He'll have to take real deep drops like Vick does. I just think whoever gets him is going to have to design an offense like Philly has done. A lot of deep stuff and staying in shotgun a lot.[/quote]

But we won't know until he actually tries. Also I'm sure experts said the same thing about Vince Young.

But yes you are right whoever takes him should and most likely will have to change their design to fit his tallents.

So now the big question.... would the Skins change their scheme or design to fit his abilities or would they force him to fit into their system?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NC_Skins;884327]I don't think you've seen anybody suggest they would have to give up their whole 2012 draft. My scenario was a rough draft of the approximate costs give or take a pick or sliding one of those picks down/up. It's still going to take a lot. More than we can afford to give up.

However,[B] based on the points[/B], that's about what it would take.

If we had to give up Orakpo and our 2012 1st for RGIII, I would probably do that providing no other picks were involved.[/quote]

But... Drew Carey says the points don't matter?

Your points based off of the chart. Thats just a starting point. If it was just the Skins interested in moving up and no one else then yeah thats the cost. Now factor in the Browns, and Miami being interested and then add what the Rams are going to ask as a starting point.

I'm not saying it would happen but I can see the Rams trying to turn it into an auction. Whoever offers the most they will take. Now thats if the Rams don't want RGIII for themselves.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Son Of Man;884334]3,000+ posts in just over a year.

Someone needs a social life...
No, social networking doesn't count.[/quote]

LOL, I had to go back looking for who you were talking about.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Don't really like either option. Both have alternative costs that, IMHO, are too costly for Redskins to seriously consider.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;884335]I'd honestly like to get both. Cause theres no guarantee we get griffin, even if attempt to trade up, in the draft. And theres no guarantee that manning can throw the same ever again. One you give up money for, the other you give up money and draft picks for. I dunno, guys this QB situation is looking pretty shaky to me being that we just had to keep winning these meaningless games (seattle, arizona, NY). Think of it like this had we of lost one, just One of those games, we would have been drafting ahead of Cleveland the real major threat of getting griffin.[/quote]

To me the QB situation looks hopeful. There are lots of options. And there is a strong chance that RGIII falls to #6.

And if RGIII falls to #6, all of those "fans" rooting for us to lose will no longer be traitors with an ill-considered cause. They will be just plain traitors.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I don't like the idea of drating Manning because I THINK he won't recover to full form. But, I voted for Manning because this team will get better rather quickly being able to hold on to their draft picks. Although the reality of signing Manning comes with the possibility of him not playing as much we'd hope, no player is immune from injuries. So, Manning makes sense. The Skins could do what IND did last year: sign Manning for a ridiculous amount of money knowing that he's still ailing, never clear him to play, and SUCK FOR LUCK, I mean BARKLEY.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

i forgot to explain why i chose rg3. i chose him because manning cannot throw a football the way an nfl qb needs to. he is useless to an nfl team. it was an easy choice between these 2 candidates.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SBXVII;884342]But we won't know until he actually tries. Also I'm sure experts said the same thing about Vince Young.

But yes you are right whoever takes him should and most likely will have to change their design to fit his tallents.

So now the big question.... would the Skins change their scheme or design to fit his abilities or would they force him to fit into their system?[/quote]

If he can't drop back and be an elite passer in a pro style system I don't want him. Big Ben, Manning brothers, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. That's the kind of QB play that wins Super Bowls. Give me a guy like that. If RGIII needs a special offense that caters to his unique skillset then we shouldn't be trading up to get him. I don't want to rely on his legs and am not interested in a gimmicky offense. Let some other team run with that experiment. Until I see someone win it all like that, count me not interested.

For the record, I'm in the neither camp unless RGIII falls to 6 and the Shanny's assess him to be an ideal fit for their system.

[QUOTE=los panda;884350]i forgot to explain why i chose rg3. i chose him because manning cannot throw a football the way an nfl qb needs to. he is useless to an nfl team. it was an easy choice between these 2 candidates.[/QUOTE]

So you've trained w him?

[QUOTE=44Deezel;884351]If he can't drop back and be an elite passer in a pro style system I don't want him. Big Ben, Manning brothers, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. That's the kind of QB play that wins Super Bowls. Give me a guy like that. If RGIII needs a special offense that caters to his unique skillset then we shouldn't be trading up to get him. I don't want to rely on his legs and am not interested in a gimmicky offense. Let some other team run with that experiment. Until I see someone win it all like that, count me not interested.[/QUOTE]

How many sbs has Vick won? Exactly

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884351]If he can't drop back and be an elite passer in a pro style system I don't want him. Big Ben, Manning brothers, Brady, Brees and Rodgers. That's the kind of QB play that wins Super Bowls. Give me a guy like that. If RGIII needs a special offense that caters to his unique skillset then we shouldn't be trading up to get him. I don't want to rely on his legs and am not interested in a gimmicky offense. Let some other team run with that experiment. Until I see someone win it all like that, count me not interested.

For the record, I'm in the neither camp unless RGIII falls to 6 and the Shanny's assess him to be an ideal fit for their system.[/quote]

Michael Vick can run the Philly offense quite well. It was laziness(unwillingness), not inability that was hindering him in Atlanta.

Funny, but Rodgers transitioned from a "spread" just fine.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884353]How many sbs has Vick won? Exactly[/quote]

Exactly. And how many games does he miss each year?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884352]So you've trained w him?[/quote]no. believe it or not, i have not trained with peyton manning.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=44Deezel;884355]Exactly. And how many games does he miss each year?[/quote]

Eagles Oline was pretty bad this season, and quite often he would stay in the pocket instead of leaving it.