Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;843816]I think you are giving Beck too much credit.[/quote]

I completely agree. Beck has been in the league awhile hasnt done anything but prove he's not a starting QB. For all the legitimate concerns about Rex the bottom line is Beck, when given the chance, couldnt beat him out.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I think we need to accept the fact that Rex is what he is, and neither Rex or Beck are the long term solutions here.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844215]I feel that I greatly underestimated [B]Anthony Armstrong. Hopefully he'll return in a couple of weeks and stretch this offense out a bit.[/B] I think maybe not having Young is hurting as well.[/quote]

Definitely, Tim Ryan even said that after watching tape of the dallas game our wr's werent getting open. AA's speed is sorely missed, we've got no real burners w/out him. I wonder if Hank is closer to seeing some action, Niles Paul was in for a lot of running plays.

I wondered about YOung too after the dallas game, but the running game & pass pro was great yesterday.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Speaking of Paul he's a physical blocker. We're using him almost in an h-back type of position on the line. Sorta how we used to use James Thrash too.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844295]Speaking of Paul he's a physical blocker. We're using him almost in an h-back type of position on the line. Sorta how we used to use James Thrash too.[/quote]

yeah, bring em in motion that he stands behind the TE or tackle just before snap. Hope he develops as a wr, he's a ball player.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=freddyg12;844293]Definitely, Tim Ryan even said that after watching tape of the dallas game our wr's werent getting open. AA's speed is sorely missed, we've got no real burners w/out him. I wonder if Hank is closer to seeing some action, Niles Paul was in for a lot of running plays.

I wondered about YOung too after the dallas game, but the running game & pass pro was great yesterday.[/quote]

I would have thought maybe Austin would get a shot with AA sitting

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844295]Speaking of Paul he's a physical blocker. We're using him almost in an h-back type of position on the line. Sorta how we used to use James Thrash too.[/quote]

A. Pettis may remember him for a little more than his blocking. lol

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;843648]I think its a lot of curiosity. Seeing what Beck can do is what fuels me really. It's like alright, we see Rex, wonder what this other guy can do? I mean granted you shouldn't take a team with momentum and just totally change the dynamic, which is why I'm torn and think that a switch should only be a consideration during the bye week and something sitting in the coaches head's down the road in case inconsistency keeps up and not a knee jerk move.

Also starting Beck against a divisional foe next week would be a bad move anyway.

I think a lot of this is frustration (for me anyway), that I think this offense has the ability to really really be good and there's some missing piece and I can't figure out wtf.[/quote]

Sitting Rex is exactly what we could use against a divisional foe. No film to study the guy, unexpected mobility which would cause the defense to keep atleast one linebacker in to spy, because if they don't there is territory to claim in the flats for a running John Beck coming off play action bootleg against a defense that will most likely show our offense some form of base cover 2, which we've seen for the past 2 weeks. With one less LB dropping back it could open up the middle of the field for more intermediate crossing, seam, and skinny post routes.

As for Beck, and his overall ability, it's impossible to know, simply because we haven't seen enough of him to make an accurate assessment. From what I saw of him in the preseason he seems to keep his eyes dowfield in the face of pressure, he works through his progressions quickly, he's willing to adjust by gliding away from pressure, and has the innate ability to complete improvisational throws outside of the pocket. He's taller than Grossman which gives him a distinct advantage when it comes to recognizing throwing lanes, batted balls and noticing coverage downfield. He can manifest throws from awkward positions(leaping in the air off of his back foot, falling to the turf). More importantly, there will never be another team vying for Grossman's services. He is a mediocre system oriented QB. Anyone can see that. If we play Beck, and he happens to inspire awe from other franchises around the league, you can potentially deal him for a future draft pick. If he performs well in the system you might even think about hanging onto him as an interim QB until you can prime a rookie to take over. Do you really want Rex's poor decision making and fearful demeanor in the pocket rubbing off on a impressionable rookie.

The fact that the curiousity exists to see what the next guy can do ultimately means that your intuition is taking over. Follow that, because it is usually the best course of action.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Man, the backup QB really always is the "best player" on the team. "He can manifest throws from awkward positions..."

shakes head, walks away

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;844315]Sitting Rex is exactly what we could use against a divisional foe. No film to study the guy, unexpected mobility which would cause the defense to keep atleast one linebacker in to spy, because if they don't there is territory to claim in the flats for a running John Beck coming off play action bootleg against a defense that will most likely show our offense some form of base cover 2, which we've seen for the past 2 weeks. With one less LB dropping back it could open up the middle of the field for more intermediate crossing, seam, and skinny post routes.

As for Beck, and his overall ability, it's impossible to know, simply because we haven't seen enough of him to make an accurate assessment. From what I saw of him in the preseason he seems to keep his eyes dowfield in the face of pressure, he works through his progressions quickly, he's willing to adjust by gliding away from pressure, and has the innate ability to complete improvisational throws outside of the pocket. He's taller than Grossman which gives him a distinct advantage when it comes to recognizing throwing lanes, batted balls and noticing coverage downfield. He can manifest throws from awkward positions(leaping in the air off of his back foot, falling to the turf). More importantly, there will never be another team vying for Grossman's services. He is a mediocre system oriented QB. Anyone can see that. If we play Beck, and he happens to inspire awe from other franchises around the league, you can potentially deal him for a future draft pick. If he performs well in the system you might even think about hanging onto him as an interim QB until you can prime a rookie to take over. Do you really want Rex's poor decision making and fearful demeanor in the pocket rubbing off on a impressionable rookie.

The fact that the curiousity exists to see what the next guy can do ultimately means that your intuition is taking over. Follow that, because it is usually the best course of action.[/quote]

A rock on the field and a hard place on the bench.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I like Becks attitude and Rex is still uber sketchy...but the Skins are 3-1, Rex hasn't made them lose yet. so its not justifiable to pull him.."may have" and "almost" plays don't really count in my book.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844317]Man, the backup QB really always is the "best player" on the team. "He can manifest throws from awkward positions..."

shakes head, walks away[/quote]

I don't recall saying he was the "best player", just that there are indicators eluding to him being a better player than Rex. If you go back and watch the preseason film those throws are evident.

I'm simply making deliberate case to support a transition to Beck. I'd rather do that then throw out back handed remarks that ultimately amount to nothing.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844290]I think we need to accept the fact that Rex is what he is, and neither Rex or Beck are the long term solutions here.[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better. Shanahan did the right thing this past offseason, purge the team of the old culture, bring in a strong and deep surrounding cast that works with his system. It builds the foundation. Now he can go get the QB of the future who can come into a half decent situation.

Neither Rex nor Beck are going to win us a SB.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I'm not completely happy with Rex Grossman, but the Redskins are 3-1. Maybe the bye week will help improve on some things Rex has been struggling with. I believe until the Redskins start getting on a bad losing streak, it's probably smartest to stick with Rexy.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I didn't you said he was the best...and is that really so great an accomplishment? That Beck can complete an awkward pass every once in a while?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844333]I didn't you said he was the best...and is that really so great an accomplishment? That Beck can complete an awkward pass every once in a while?[/quote]

More of an accomplishment then having an active QB who can't.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;844327]I don't recall saying he was the "best player", just that there are indicators eluding to him being a better player than Rex. [B]If you go back and watch the preseason film those throws are evident.[/B]

I'm simply making deliberate case to support a transition to Beck. I'd rather do that then throw out back handed remarks that ultimately amount to nothing.[/quote]

If you go back and watch Beck in the last preseason game, you have an argument for sticking with Grossman.

Man, we are 3-1 and people want to switch the QB. Amazing.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=fanarchist;844315]Sitting Rex is exactly what we could use against a divisional foe.[/quote]

What exactly would that say to the locker room?

Head coach makes a firm decision and chooses his starter.

The team starts the season strong and exudes an excellent sense of community and commitment.

Work hard, play for the men next to you and when you earn your starting spot the coaches will back you up with the exact same dedication.

Shanahan walks into the locker room. Wearing his two Super Bowl rings.

"Hey guys we've decided to throw an absolute NFL nobody into the fire this week......just to see what happens. This other guy what's his name again..John. yeah this John Beck character over here... that's right that 30 year old guy right over there hiding in his locker..the one sucking his thumb right now..yeah that guy..he has UPSIDE according to some of the fans. What do we have to lose guys! It's not like we could go 4-1 or anything. Ok good talk. I'm off to go get sized for a new clown costume."

Let's be reality.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

SS you shook your head and walked away. Back lol? It is ridiculous that this thread has 3-4 times more posts than the Studs thread.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;844331]Couldn't have said it better. Shanahan did the right thing this past offseason, purge the team of the old culture, bring in a strong and deep surrounding cast that works with his system. It builds the foundation. Now he can go get the QB of the future who can come into a half decent situation.

[B]Neither Rex nor Beck are going to win us a SB.[/B][/quote]

Not while Aaron Rodgers is under center. Guy has officially arrived as the leagues best QB.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=hooskins;844361]SS you shook your head and walked away. Back lol? It is ridiculous that this thread has 3-4 times more posts than the Studs thread.[/quote]

In true SBF fashion I don't know when to shut up :)

The Studs thread and the Tony McGee thread need more love

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;844331]Couldn't have said it better. Shanahan did the right thing this past offseason, purge the team of the old culture, bring in a strong and deep surrounding cast that works with his system. It builds the foundation. Now he can go get the QB of the future who can come into a half decent situation.

Neither Rex nor Beck are going to win us a SB.[/quote]

I dont think either can carry the team on his back and win a SB that way but I do think the Skins can win a SB with Rex as QB. Teams (TB and Balt come to mind) have won SBs with average or even below average QBs.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;844363]In true SBF fashion I don't know when to shut up :)

The Studs thread and the Tony McGee thread need more love[/quote]

Compromise. Change the direction of this thread from Grossman-Beck to the Romo fallout?

swish41 Dirk Nowitzki
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For everybody blaming Tony Romo today. You need to be looking at the atrocious play calling in the second half.
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Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;844069]By that logic we should have kept McNabb and never replaced him with Rex in the first place.



You mean the numbers he put up 5 years ago as a rookie on a terrible Miami team?



You're dismissing the arguments relevant to the 2011 Redskins and their current offensive system.[/quote]

Wrong, letting McNabb go and switching to Beck are two completely different scenarios. There is absolutely no correlation between the two.

And yes those are the only numbers there are on Beck...what else is there that shows what he is capable of other than preseason?

And finally I am not dismissing anything. I am simply saying it's a bad idea to switch QBs and that there is absolutely nothing out there that would elude to that being a good idea right now.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;844342]If you go back and watch Beck in the last preseason game, you have an argument for sticking with Grossman.

Man, we are 3-1 and people want to switch the QB. Amazing.[/quote]

And watching the last 3 games I can build a strong case against "sticking with Rex". People seem to like bringing up that 4th and 3 corner route to Santana for a TD in the Cards game, using it as a microcosm for Rex's "gunslinger" attitude and the reason we were ultimately able to prevail. The way I see it, if Rex didn't throw those 2 early ints in the redzone, and we came away with 2 field goals instead, a field goal in that 4th and 3 scenario would have won you the game. Because of his lethargy in regards to decision making, and ball security, he put himself in a position where he was forced to try for the win in a circumstance that could have just as easily spelled disaster, and just as easily have been avoided. Granted he made the throw, and won the game. That I can't take away from him, but how many times have we seen the cards fall differently, and not in our favor. He operates ok within the confines of the system. When the line holds up, when the timing is on, when he can work off of play action, but mistakes even arise for him in those circumstances. He too often locks on to the first read in his progression which causes defenders to easily converge on the reciever, and also results in a slew of ints. He feels pressure where there is none which causes him to throw mistimed passes which again leads to more ints.

In the Dallas game. Yes he threw some good balls, but those balls tend to be to receivers who are sitting down, and running hitch routes into soft spots in cover 2 zone. Occationally he'll hit a guy running a drag, but mostly he's throwing to stationary targets. On the int to Sean Lee, he reads right, that was his first read, he sticks with that read too long, and comes back across the field to Fred Davis running a intermediate in. He is already in bracket coverage, and he doesn't recognize Sean Lee in middle zone floating in the direction of Davis. Rex releases the ball too late, and another int. That entire game he was anticipating pressure instead of keeping his gaze fixed downfield, and trying to make a play. That's ultimately what led to the fumble and the loss.

Much of the same in the Rams game. Only this time he threw 4 passes that could have led to easy ints. Luck was clearly on our side.

It's not a matter of the record for me. In all probability this team is not Superbowl bound this season. Rex's deficiencies will ultimately lead to losses this year. I want us to exhaust all options so there is no lingering doubt about the QB position in the offseason. We've seen what Rex can do, not just in these 7 games, but over the course of his career. His trends and inadequacies are the same as they were 5 years ago. Now I want to see what Beck can do.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GoSkins!;844165]I wonder if the Cowboys fans are having this same discussion after their QB actually cost them their game?[/quote]

Continually...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=wilsowilso;844343]What exactly would that say to the locker room?

Head coach makes a firm decision and chooses his starter.

The team starts the season strong and exudes an excellent sense of community and commitment.

Work hard, play for the men next to you and when you earn your starting spot the coaches will back you up with the exact same dedication.

Shanahan walks into the locker room. Wearing his two Super Bowl rings.

"Hey guys we've decided to throw an absolute NFL nobody into the fire this week......just to see what happens. This other guy what's his name again..John. yeah this John Beck character over here... that's right that 30 year old guy right over there hiding in his locker..the one sucking his thumb right now..yeah that guy..he has UPSIDE according to some of the fans. What do we have to lose guys! It's not like we could go 4-1 or anything. Ok good talk. I'm off to go get sized for a new clown costume."

Let's be reality.[/quote]

That is some funny shit...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;844372]Wrong, letting McNabb go and switching to Beck are two completely different scenarios. There is absolutely no correlation between the two.[/quote]

If we go back to the switch last year I could easily say everything you're saying about Beck and more. "What has Rex done lately. McNabb has constantly taken his teams to the playoffs, he's a proven veteran. Rex hasn't started a full season since 2006 what makes you think he's going to be better then McNabb? McNabb is a 6 time pro bowler."


[quote]And yes those are the only numbers there are on Beck...what else is there that shows what he is capable of other than preseason?
[/quote]

There are no recent numbers outside of the preseason. However that only means so much. Enough QB's have taken off with sparse NFL resumes (ie only preseason starts and a game or two of clean up duty). Matt Schuab, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck,

[quote]And finally I am not dismissing anything. I am simply saying it's a bad idea to switch QBs and that there is absolutely nothing out there that would elude to that being a good idea right now.[/quote]

And ironically I'm not even demanding that Rex be pulled, but I would like to see the coaching staff strongly consider it and decide that if they're going to make the switch that the best time to do so would be the bye week where you could get more reps.

Still I don't care about 3-1 as evidence as to why we should keep Rex. If anyone cares about selling someone like me who's standing on the ledge talk about the third down conversions, the opening drive, the key drops by Hightower and Moss that could have changed the final part of the game. Either way this two turnovers a game trend has to improve. It has to. We cannot win games long term, especially in the playoffs turning the ball over twice a game.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Dang it! and to think i waited all day to check this thread out!!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;844387]If we go back to the switch last year I could easily say everything you're saying about Beck and more. "What has Rex done lately. McNabb has constantly taken his teams to the playoffs, he's a proven veteran. Rex hasn't started a full season since 2006 what makes you think he's going to be better then McNabb? McNabb is a 6 time pro bowler."




There are no recent numbers outside of the preseason. However that only means so much. Enough QB's have taken off with sparse NFL resumes (ie only preseason starts and a game or two of clean up duty). Matt Schuab, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck,



And ironically I'm not even demanding that Rex be pulled, but I would like to see the coaching staff strongly consider it and decide that if they're going to make the switch that the best time to do so would be the bye week where you could get more reps.

Still I don't care about 3-1 as evidence as to why we should keep Rex. If anyone cares about selling someone like me who's standing on the ledge talk about the third down conversions, the opening drive, the key drops by Hightower and Moss that could have changed the final part of the game. Either way this two turnovers a game trend has to improve. It has to. We cannot win games long term, especially in the playoffs turning the ball over twice a game.[/quote]

I don't want to sell anything, I'm just thankful that you are not the one making the decision. It would be a bad one.

There may very well be a point in the season where it is time to go to Beck for whatever reason, but right now is not the time. I still think that barring an injury or Rex just completely coming unravelled and losing a game that we should win all by himself - he will be there all year.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;844387]If we go back to the switch last year I could easily say everything you're saying about Beck and more. "What has Rex done lately. McNabb has constantly taken his teams to the playoffs, he's a proven veteran. Rex hasn't started a full season since 2006 what makes you think he's going to be better then McNabb? McNabb is a 6 time pro bowler."
[/quote]

There is a significant difference between "What has Rex done lately?" and "What has Beck ever done?"

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I don't think anyone thinks Beck is the answer but rather that Rex is not, so what could it hurt to see what Beck can do.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Right now I'd rather see KS change some of the plays he calls than see a QB change.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I also have to say, whenever I hear that we shouldn't change QB "because we are 3-1" I cringe a little bit. This is the most ridiculous reasoning process in the world. It's a little like saying you shouldn't replace your spare tire because it is still getting you back and forth to work everyday. I am NOT saying that we should replace Rex, but what I am saying is that us being 3-1 is not a good reason to not replace Rex. No other position in football is afforded this luxury. It reminds me of Don Burgundy, whenever you started talking about how much he sucked, someone else would start talking about all the games he's won. If Jammal Brown had given up 7 sacks yesterday, we would be calling for his head regardless of what our record was. Whether you keep your job should be based on how you are playing, not what our record is. For me, the most basic fundamental of football is consistency. Rex doesn't have it. He is also relatively lazy IMHO.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

We are winning with our running game and our defense.

We are winning with possibly the worst starting QB in the league.

We would be 4-0 without Rex starting these games, I believe that.

Rex is horrible. Whats is more horrible is him running on and off the field like a body builder with his hands clinched and thumbs pointing to the sky.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Beck has accomplished absolutely nothing...NOTHING... to make one believe we'd be undefeated with him at QB these past four weeks. I mean fine, whatever, I suppose you can believe it but I'd be just as "right" in saying we'd be 0-4 with him at QB

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Shanahan never shies away from making unpopular decisions or going against conventional thinking. If he thought Beck was the guy, he'd be in there already.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=zeesson;844440]I also have to say, whenever I hear that we shouldn't change QB "because we are 3-1" I cringe a little bit. This is the most ridiculous reasoning process in the world. It's a little like saying you [B]shouldn't replace your spare tire because it is still getting you back and forth to work everyday.[/B] I am NOT saying that we should replace Rex, but what I am saying is that us being 3-1 is not a good reason to not replace Rex. No other position in football is afforded this luxury. It reminds me of Don Burgundy, whenever you started talking about how much he sucked, someone else would start talking about all the games he's won. If Jammal Brown had given up 7 sacks yesterday, we would be calling for his head regardless of what our record was. Whether you keep your job should be based on how you are playing, not what our record is. For me, the most basic fundamental of football is consistency. Rex doesn't have it. He is also relatively lazy IMHO.[/quote]

While my spare tire may need replacing, it makes no sense to replace it (while in fact it is STILL holding up) with a tire that may be worse and has demonstrated some cause for concern in that area. I have nothing against either QB. Loved Beck first game....some cause for concern after. I think if our current "spare" completely blows out....you'll get our replacement....but until...3-1 is...fun (I like that)
AND Welcome to the WP

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Shame that we're 3-1 sitting here banging our heads against the wall over the starting QB... as usual.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I am reminded once again why the bye week is so...tedious