Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;597360]Just for a frame of reference around 70% of the fan base believes Zorn should be fired.[/quote]

Zorn can stay for all I care.

I more care about the front office being vastly altered than the coaching position.

Zorn is a first time head coach in his second year. Really...what realistic expectations were there with him to begin with. He didn't fill out the coaching ranks himself and he's never even been a OC before.

It's not so surprising that he failed. It is surprising that the biggest wallet in the NFL can't yield the personnel to beat the lions...FIRE THE FRONT OFFICE.

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I've got 50 yard line tickets field level to Redskins @ Raiders...

I wonder how bad the Raiders are gonna thrash us that week..no what Im eager to see now is who is the the head coach gonna be

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[quote=Beemnseven;597369]Amazing.

And let me reiterate too -- we did nothing to upgrade the offensive line and we are officially paying for it.

That's unless you consider the great Derrick Dockery to be an upgrade...[/quote]

What about Clinton Portis? I mean this dude is getting paid all this money, is always banged up, never practices, and does little in the preseason...he's a non-factor this season. Shit, at least the o-line is good enough to get Campbell to throw over 300 yds.

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[quote=GTripp0012;597279]The offense has not been good the last two games, especially in the red zone. But it was the thinner of the two units to begin with, and it's the one that took the first major injury.

And the offense did have trouble moving the football today. Campbell did not play very well. There was no rhythm to his work. Portis was a non factor in this one.

No matter who is coaching the offense, it will have it's moments when Campbell plays well and it's going to struggle mightily when he doesn't. You just can't excuse a poorly coached defense as not having the players. You might be right, but since Blache has been our DL coach and later our coordinator, we're 0-4 against rookie QBs. How can we defend that?[/quote]

The offense hasn't been good since the 2nd half of last year and this whole year. It's about scoring points not yardage. We can't score points. Scoring 9 and 14 points is simply inexcusable and unacceptable against Det. and STL.

If you watched the game today closely, which I assume you did you would've saw guys LOSING their one on one battles on defense. And you would've saw some missed tackles. I'm not sure how you blame that on coaching.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Beemnseven;597369]Amazing.

And let me reiterate too -- we did nothing to upgrade the offensive line and we are officially paying for it.

That's unless you consider the great Derrick Dockery to be an upgrade...[/quote]

Dude! We only ran it four times in the first half. Just four freaking times!!! I've never seen that shit before in my life! Even Spurrier would call more running plays then that!

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[quote=Skinny Tee;597373]Zorn can stay for all I care.

I more care about the front office being vastly altered than the coaching position.

Zorn is a first time head coach in his second year. Really...what realistic expectations were there with him to begin with. He didn't fill out the coaching ranks himself and he's never even been a OC before.





It's not so surprising that he failed. It is surprising that the biggest wallet in the NFL can't yield the personnel to beat the lions...FIRE THE FRONT OFFICE.[/quote]
Damn I love your post

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597373][B]Zorn can stay for all I care.[/B]

I more care about the front office being vastly altered than the coaching position.

Zorn is a first time head coach in his second year. Really...what realistic expectations were there with him to begin with. He didn't fill out the coaching ranks himself and he's never even been a OC before.

It's not so surprising that he failed. It is surprising that the biggest wallet in the NFL can't yield the personnel to beat the lions...FIRE THE FRONT OFFICE.[/quote]

Dude, you're an idiot.

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I'm not 100% sure that firing Zorn would be throwing in the towel on the season. It's not like keeping him will save this team, he is a big part of the problem so getting rid of him might not necessarily mean throwing in the towel. The problem would be who is to take his place? IMO after what I saw today I'd prefer to take the chance of letting him go

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Ruhskins;597375]What about Clinton Portis? I mean this dude is getting paid all this money, is always banged up, never practices, and does little in the preseason...he's a non-factor this season. Shit, at least the o-line is good enough to get Campbell to throw over 300 yds.[/quote]

I think your o-line should be able to pass block and open some holes for your RBs. When they did open holes he made plays. I got an idea for you. Get up and run into the wall. Then after you get over your concussion. Get up and open a door and run through it and see which one is easier.

Have you ever taken into consideration that since CP has been here we have run him into the ground. He has been the only constant on our team in the past 5 years that produces. Then you wonder why he is banged up. :doh:

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[quote=Ruhskins;597389]Dude, you're an idiot.[/quote]


See this is why the skins need to start winning we get to name callin

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[quote=skinsfan69;597379]The offense hasn't been good since the 2nd half of last year and this whole year. It's about scoring points not yardage. We can't score points. Scoring 9 and 14 points is simply inexcusable and unacceptable against Det. and STL.

[B]If you watched the game today closely, which I assume you did you would've saw guys LOSING their one on one battles on defense. And you would've saw some missed tackles. I'm not sure how you blame that on coaching[/B].[/quote]

The same way you blame dropped passes, fumbles, penalties and the offense being unable to run for 1 yard for a TD on Zorn.

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[quote=Ruhskins;597366]So you think a defensive coach would have helped with an offense that has trouble scoring? Please.[/quote]

Read what I worte. We should've kept Al S.

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It going to be interesting because of Zorn is not fired fans will start boycotting in some form or fashion.

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[quote=Miller101;597384]Dude! We only ran it four times in the first half. Just four freaking times!!! I've never seen that shit before in my life! Even Spurrier would call more running plays then that![/quote]

And if we had gotten yards, we would have attempted more runs.

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[quote=skinsfan69;597093]Just cause we spend money doesn't mean we have players. Fire the guy that's picking the players.[/quote]

I don't believe its the players.Two 6'4 receivers and no balls thrown to either of them in the redzone and still no deep passes. What happened to the 2 tight end sets we were suppose to see? Zorn is in over his head. He would never admit it.

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By the way, our highly paid defense allowed Detroit 381 yards of offense with a rookie QB.

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Guys the players arent the problem. This is the staff!

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Well, if the problem is that Zorn is in over his head, is there anything to be said for waiting for him to get caught up?

If he just doesn't have it, he doesn't have it. It's not the playcalling, in my opinion, if he just doesn't manage people well there's no reason to try to push through. But if he does all the small things well, maybe we just have to wait him out for everything to click?

I think the organization needs to decide if Jim Zorn just has too many hats, or if he just doesn't have coaching ability. Right now, I'd suggest it's the latter, but you don't just fire someone because you are mad that you were upset. You actually have to diagnose the issue before you take action.

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[quote=dmvskinzfan08;597396]I think your o-line should be able to pass block and open some holes for your RBs. When they did open holes he made plays. I got an idea for you. Get up and run into the wall. Then after you get over your concussion. Get up and open a door and run through it and see which one is easier.

[B]Have you ever taken into consideration that since CP has been here we have run him into the ground. He has been the only constant on our team in the past 5 years that produces. Then you wonder why he is banged up.[/B] :doh:[/quote]

Oh come on, no need to edit your post, this wasn't necessary.

On a serious note, our o-line is banged up, and well great people can bitch about how we haven't drafted lineman and yada yada. Yes they need to do that...it's just that CP has disappeared in the last three games and he is a non-factor. Maybe the team needs to look for another option if they blow up the team this year.

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[quote=pg86;597417]Guys the players arent the problem. This is the staff![/quote]

Oh no, it's all Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder. Zorn, Blache, and the players are off the hook as long as these guys are in charge apparently.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Ruhskins;597389]Dude, you're an idiot.[/quote]

Thanks for your creative contribution and attack.

I'll at least clarify my post as opposed to personally attack you for yours.


You think Zorn is responsible for this???...You're sadly mistaken. Who hired a first time ever coach who has never even been a OC and brought him in to coach without allowing him to fill out his coaching ranks?

Who put Super Bowl expectations on QBs Coach from Seattle who has never even been a OC or called an NFL play before.

Sure as shit wasn't Zorn.

The whole last two years have been a GROSS MISMANAGEMENT of personnel and staff and beyond. Great talent and players like Portis and Moss are toiling away while their winning years are quickly passing by them. They can't wait two years to find out that their winning aspirations have been comprised by an inept front office.


Since you think otherwise I'll take you calling me an "idiot" as a compliment as only an idiot think that responsibility of this loss lies on Zorn.

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[quote=53Fan;597399]The same way you blame dropped passes, fumbles, penalties and the offense being unable to run for 1 yard for a TD on Zorn.[/quote]


Last week the word was Zorn ran the ball too much, should have passed more. This week he has Jason throw forty one times and he should have run more. Looks like the only way he wins is to bet he loses'. He did throw the fade once today to Kelly incomplete. I said earlier, this team does have some personnel issues.

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597425]Thanks for your creative contribution and attack.

I'll at least clarify my post as opposed to personally attack you for yours.


You think Zorn is responsible for this???...You're sadly mistaken. Who hired a first time ever coach who has never even been a OC and brought him in to coach without allowing him to fill out his coaching ranks?

Who put Super Bowl expectations on QBs Coach from Seattle who has never even been a OC or called an NFL play before.

Sure as shit wasn't Zorn.

The whole last two years have been a GROSS MISMANAGEMENT of personnel and staff and beyond. Great talent and players like Portis and Moss are toiling away while their winning years are quickly passing by them. They can't wait two years to find out that their winning aspirations have been comprised by an inept front office.


Since you think otherwise I'll take you calling me an "idiot" as a compliment as only an idiot think that responsibility of this loss lies on Zorn.[/quote]

So how are you going to get Snyder to sell the team then? I do agree that Cerrato needs to go...but how are fans going to get the Snyder factor out of this equation? He owns the team and there's nothing you and I can change about that.

I just think that it is idiotic...ok let me be nicer...it is naive for anyone to dismiss the coach easily and put it all on the FO. We saw a terrible coach out there today and he needs to go, plain and simple. Maybe not right away, but he needs to go. He's a terrible playcaller and someone else needs to take over.

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[quote=Redskin Warrior;597372]i agree and all QB have things they struggle with but it's hard to correct them when you don't have time to think i'm not sure most QB's could with this line[/quote]

You may be correct but the HC has the duty of finding time for his QB. Somehow. Maybe even rolling the QB out more often or using shot gun more often or fixing the O-line issues.

Someone mentioned they were losing their one on one battles. Maybe it's the blocking scheme? I really don't know. If I knew I'm sure I would be getting paid to be a coach but I'm not. I'm sure some one will probably say..."then STFU". At this point I think we all are guessing as to what the problem is but one thing is for sure.....the team is not scoring and they can't seem to fix the problem. Who's fault is that?

I can tell you DS is not giving up the team. He's making money. He's most likely not to fire his little buddy Vinny. Those are almost guaranteed. So there is no sense in bringing thos up.

I think everything else is fair game.

What I saw;

1) the center couldn't hike the ball right several times.
2) JC having a hard time handling the ball.
3) run blocking sucked.
4) WR's not able to get open.
5) bad play calls.
6) bad calls by the refs.
7) Portis playing hurt.
8) Betts sucks
9) ? anyone else want to chime in?

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well I thought JC ran the redzone plays effectively, and scored touchdowns i might add. (i am not talking about when Zorn was calling them, but when he was just running the whole offense)

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=SBXVII;597430]You may be correct but the HC has the duty of finding time for his QB. Somehow. Maybe even rolling the QB out more often or using shot gun more often or fixing the O-line issues.

Someone mentioned they were losing their one on one battles. Maybe it's the blocking scheme? I really don't know. If I knew I'm sure I would be getting paid to be a coach but I'm not. I'm sure some one will probably say..."then STFU". At this point I think we all are guessing as to what the problem is but one thing is for sure.....the team is not scoring and they can't seem to fix the problem. Who's fault is that?

I can tell you DS is not giving up the team. He's making money. He's most likely not to fire his little buddy Vinny. Those are almost guaranteed. So there is no sense in bringing thos up.

I think everything else is fair game.

What I saw;

1) the center couldn't hike the ball right several times.
2) JC having a hard time handling the ball.
3) run blocking sucked.
4) WR's not able to get open.
5) bad play calls.
6) bad calls by the refs.
7) Portis playing hurt.
8) Betts sucks
9) ? anyone else want to chime in?[/quote]
Ill add my Two cents....Chris Cooley not in the mix, Jim Zorn calling like he's not ready to be a coach

of course hey with all this drama and stuff what are the odds they come out next week and Take Tampa bay to the woodshed

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I think I would react to this loss by seeing if Holmgren would come in as an advisor and release Blache(this may be kneejerk and I reserve the right to rescind this statement by Tuesday) as the sacrificial lamb from this debacle.

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[quote=Ruhskins;597429]So how are you going to get Snyder to sell the team then? I do agree that Cerrato needs to go...but how are fans going to get the Snyder factor out of this equation? He owns the team and there's nothing you and I can change about that.

I just think that it is idiotic...ok let me be nicer...it is naive for anyone to dismiss the coach easily and put it all on the FO. We saw a terrible coach out there today and he needs to go, plain and simple. Maybe not right away, but he needs to go. He's a terrible playcaller and someone else needs to take over.[/quote]Well if he goes, Snyder gets to pick a different coach. Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's more important that they find a way to make these current players work than getting a two week head start on a rebuilding project. And I think it starts with an entirely different approach on defense. Right now, the "prevent big plays" philosophy that Gregg Williams came up with to drag the defense out of the wilderness in 2007 is just giving up extra long drives and preventing the offense from getting any real work out there.

If we're going to be 6-10 this year, I'd like it to be because the offense tried and failed, not because they are stranded on the sideline the whole game.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;597437]I think I would react to this loss by seeing if Holmgren would come in as an advisor and release Blache(this may be kneejerk and I reserve the right to rescind this statement by Tuesday) as the sacrificial lamb from this debacle.[/quote]

I see Holmgren being brought in and Zorn being fired but ill buy that prediction

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;597437]I think I would react to this loss by seeing if Holmgren would come in as an advisor and release Blache(this may be kneejerk and I reserve the right to rescind this statement by Tuesday) as the sacrificial lamb from this debacle.[/quote]

Well someone has to get fired....I think Snyder would get hugely popular if he fired Cerrato, but we know that's not going to happen.

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[quote=Ruhskins;597429]So how are you going to get Snyder to sell the team then? I do agree that Cerrato needs to go...but how are fans going to get the Snyder factor out of this equation? He owns the team and there's nothing you and I can change about that.

I just think that it is idiotic...ok let me be nicer...it is naive for anyone to dismiss the coach easily and put it all on the FO. We saw a terrible coach out there today and he needs to go, plain and simple. Maybe not right away, but he needs to go. He's a terrible playcaller and someone else needs to take over.[/quote]

I don't care if you're nice or not...personally I could give a shit what you think about me. You do have to respect the policies of the board though.


Snyder doesn't have to fire himself to remove himself from the football moves.

He has to hire someone that would not let him even thnk of touching, influencing, altering ANY part of the team, personnel, or staff.

HIRE A GM!...for those at home who can't put two brain cells together and come to that conclusion...not you of course Ruhskins.

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Jim Zorn has lost the confidence and respect from his players. Plain and simple. That reflects on the field, and the Redskins have played very uninspiring football for two weeks against the NFL's two worst teams. No matter how level headed of a fan you may pride yourself to be, deep down inside, you know when a head coach is losing his team mentally and emotionally, that head coach is finished.

I know the buck stops at the head coach, but let us also remember that the Lions drove 99 yards downfield and scored a TD against our so called top five defense. If you fire Zorn tomorrow, you might as well fire Blache as well. Keep them in, let them finish out the season, but expect big changes next year (yet again!) :(

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[quote=Skinny Tee;597441]I don't care if you're nice or not...personally I could give a shit what you think about me. You do have to respect the policies of the board though.


Snyder doesn't have to fire himself to remove himself from the football moves.

He has to hire someone that would not let him even thnk of touching, influencing, altering ANY part of the team, personnel, or staff.

HIRE A GM!...for those at home who can't put two brain cells together and come to that conclusion...not you of course Ruhskins.[/quote]

OK YOU TWO...Shake hands and stop insulting each other

Re: Now What??
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;597441]I don't care if you're nice or not...personally I could give a shit what you think about me. You do have to respect the policies of the board though.


[B]Snyder doesn't have to fire himself to remove himself from the football moves.[/B]

He has to hire someone that would not let him even thnk of touching, influencing, altering ANY part of the team, personnel, or staff.

[B]HIRE A GM!...[/B]for those at home who can't put two brain cells together and come to that conclusion...not you of course Ruhskins.[/quote]

Wishful thinking.

Re: Now What??
 

I feel like I'm in such disbelief that I actually feel more numb than anything. I feel like I'm having one of those trippy "is this really happening" kinda moments. I don't know where to go from here. I'm so numb I'm probably gonna hit the hay soon so I can wake up feeling refreshed tomorrow.

Where is this team going? If I'm Snyder I don't want to make a knee jerk decision so I'd give Zorn until the bye week to turn this thing around. If he doesn't field a competent football team against our upcoming schedule (vs. Bucs, at Panthers, vs. Chiefs, vs. Eagles) then he has had his time and we need to move on. I think that's what Snyder would do in this situation. I'd rather him hire the football guy who's not in football right now (aka a Parcells situation) to evaluate the roster for the rest of the season but I don't think that will happen. Our upcoming schedule isn't that hard. Bucs/Panthers/Chiefs shouldn't be too hard (provided JZ takes a real hard look at himself and his staff/team), Eagles game will be tough but by then we should have a better idea of what direction we're going in.

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[quote=Ruhskins;597440]Well someone has to get fired....I think Snyder would get hugely popular if he fired Cerrato, but we know that's not going to happen.[/quote]

The problem is firing Cerrato does not fix the offensive issues. It would only help us next yr. It would not help us right now. It's a start yes but won't fix our issues right now.

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[quote=SUNRA;597411]I don't believe its the players.Two 6'4 receivers and no balls thrown to either of them in the redzone and still no deep passes. What happened to the 2 tight end sets we were suppose to see? Zorn is in over his head. He would never admit it.[/quote]

We need to do it more but Kelly did get a ball in the end zone and he was well covered. We didn't execute the play. Det did the same thing and they executed the play.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;597437]I think I would react to this loss by seeing if Holmgren would come in as an advisor and release Blache(this may be kneejerk and I reserve the right to rescind this statement by Tuesday) as the sacrificial lamb from this debacle.[/quote]

I dont think that is a bad idea. I actually suggested it earlier this week. Zorn worked under Holmgren. So there woudl be little turnover. I dot think releasing Blache is a knee jerk reaction. If I am spending top dollar to upgrade a defense that was ranked 8th last year and we play worse. I think that is a direct reflection of Blache. He is stubborn and wont adapt. Saying that what do we lose if we let him go when our defense isn't going to stop anyone while he is here.

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[quote=SBXVII;597452]The problem is firing Cerrato does not fix the offensive issues. It would only help us next yr. It would not help us right now. It's a start yes but won't fix our issues right now.[/quote]

It won't, but there's a guy on another thread saying that he could care less if Zorn stays, but that Cerrato must go.

Honestly, I don't know why people have to put blame on ONE thing, and one thing only. Firing just Cerrato or firing just Zorn, or getting rid of ONE player won't change things. There needs to be changes all throughout this team, because it seems that all the areas from the top down have issues.

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[quote=pg86;597436]Ill add my Two cents....Chris Cooley not in the mix, Jim Zorn calling like he's not ready to be a coach

of course hey with all this drama and stuff [B]what are the odds they come out next week and Take Tampa bay to the woodshed[/quote][/B]

and this is where the blind faith/hope starts all over again....game after game. Good luck with your emotions.