Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

Three years later and we are still debating Kirk. IMO no he is not a top 10 QB, but his stats are good and the knock people give him in the 4th quarter I don't get either. Last year he had a 117 rating with 13 TDs and 2 interceptions in the 4th quarter. In close games where margin of victory/defeat was less than 7 points he had a 110 rating and 22 TDs and 6 ints. His salary the thee people closest to him in A/Y are Rodgers, Goff and Wentz. Those three have all played in Super Bowls but I would take KC over Goff and Wentz.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278950]Since Kirk left he's 25-21-1 in Minnesota. We're 17-31. Sorry but Kirk wins again.[/quote]

Wins a bigger participation trophy. Good for him.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1278940]12th most cap space for us now at 39M

boys 20.7M
vaginas 3.2
eagles -25.4

[url]https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/[/url][/quote]

The 12th spot is based on total cap space but the highlighted 39 million is based on top 51 (when I sorted it was 7th best). It looks like we actually have decent money tied up outside of top 51. I was thinking that was dead money but the values don't add up. It looks like we are paying a lot of dough to someone not suiting up. Maybe I am reading that wrong?

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1278956]Wins a bigger participation trophy. Good for him.[/quote]

Significantly better record than us that's for sure, and a playoff win too.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278950]Since Kirk left he's 25-21-1 in Minnesota. We're 17-31. Sorry but Kirk wins again.[/quote]

I think it is ridiculous for people to say that Kirk is a scrub and that Heinecke is better than him.

That being said, I don't think Kirk gets us to 25-21-1 had he stayed in our team. He would have given us stability at the position, but we wouldn't have had the offensive pieces he's had in Minnesota.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1278955]Three years later and we are still debating Kirk. IMO no he is not a top 10 QB, but his stats are good and the knock people give him in the 4th quarter I don't get either. Last year he had a 117 rating with 13 TDs and 2 interceptions in the 4th quarter. In close games where margin of victory/defeat was less than 7 points he had a 110 rating and 22 TDs and 6 ints. His salary the thee people closest to him in A/Y are Rodgers, Goff and Wentz. Those three have all played in Super Bowls but I would take KC over Goff and Wentz.[/quote]

It's not really even a debate anymore, at least not a fair and honest one. He's way better than his haters will ever give him credit for, and we've been worse off since he left and we're still looking for a QB 4 years later. Anyone who wants to say otherwise is just kidding themselves.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278950]Since Kirk left he's 25-21-1 in Minnesota. We're 17-31. Sorry but Kirk wins again.[/quote]

Minnesota was 21 - 11 with Keenum and Bradford. KC was a significant downgrade because of his contract value versus the cap. They had to cut or not sign significant pieces because an average to slightly above average QB demanded and received top 3 salary. Like you said, Dak (and KC at the time) got the pay because that is what you had to do to sign a qb in their market, but I am glad we didn't pay KC, and if AS hadn't gotten hurt, records would bear out that we paid less for a better end result.

The point of all of this isn't to rehash KC - you brought him up, but to look at the effect of paying a non elite qb elite money. Better to roll with a mid level and build up the team around him. No matter what, the qb spot will always be a problem that very few teams find long term elite answers for.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1278959]I think it is ridiculous for people to say that Kirk is a scrub and that Heinecke is better than him.

That being said, I don't think Kirk gets us to 25-21-1 had he stayed in our team. He would have given us stability at the position, but we wouldn't have had the offensive pieces he's had in Minnesota.[/quote]

It's tough to compare QBs since they don't have the same personnel around them.

He's hands down better than anyone we have had since he left though.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1278963]Minnesota was 21 - 11 with Keenum and Bradford. KC was a significant downgrade because of his contract value versus the cap. They had to cut or not sign significant pieces because an average to slightly above average QB demanded and received top 3 salary. Like you said, Dak (and KC at the time) got the pay because that is what you had to do to sign a qb in their market, but I am glad we didn't pay KC, and if AS hadn't gotten hurt, records would bear out that we paid less for a better end result.

The point of all of this isn't to rehash KC - you brought him up, but to look at the effect of paying a non elite qb elite money. Better to roll with a mid level and build up the team around him. No matter what, the qb spot will always be a problem that very few teams find long term elite answers for.[/quote]

I think alot of that is on the GM though his cap hit wasn't that much in 2020 or now in 2021. It will be a doozy in 2022 though! [url]https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/kirk-cousins-9915/[/url]

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278960]It's not really even a debate anymore, at least not a fair and honest one. He's way better than his haters will ever give him credit for, and we've been worse off since he left and we're still looking for a QB 4 years later. Anyone who wants to say otherwise is just kidding themselves.[/quote]

tell that to minnesota fans, who now have exactly the same duality on their message board. KC is KC, he can't/hasn't won anything with any team he has been on, and had we overpaid him, with the train wreck that our club has been, we wouldn't have been in any better place. than we are now.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1278967]tell that to minnesota fans, who now have exactly the same duality on their message board. KC is KC, he can't/hasn't won anything with any team he has been on, and had we overpaid him, with the train wreck that our club has been, we wouldn't have been in any better place. than we are now.[/quote]

Most fans are dumb and don't even know what they're watching.

Check a GB message board and you'll find your fair share of A-Rod haters.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1278959]I think it is ridiculous for people to say that Kirk is a scrub and that Heinecke is better than him.

[B]That being said, I don't think Kirk gets us to 25-21-1 had he stayed in our team. He would have given us stability at the position, but we wouldn't have had the offensive pieces he's had in Minnesota[/B].[/quote]

We'll never know because we let that ship sail. And then we failed to trade him once it was obvious he wasn't coming back. So many mistakes.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNhxR0WEAARyMQ?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

I'd be happy with him at WR2

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1278985][IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwNhxR0WEAARyMQ?format=jpg&name=medium[/IMG]

I'd be happy with him at WR2[/quote]

I think he could be another Garcon type of signing here. A guy that was a little under the radar with his first team but could really be ready to take off.

Re: WFT's Off-Season Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1278986]I think he could be another Garcon type of signing here. A guy that was a little under the radar with his first team but could really be ready to take off.[/quote]

Yeah I'd take him over Fuller for sure