Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=12thMan;983732]He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.[/quote]

I think that he would have this year, but he got injured too early. I understand your frustration but the decline of the pass rush was evident without him. I do not want to kick either to the curb, but Orakpo is the better pass rushing LB for the 3-4 defense. I believe that he is going to play to his potential next season.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=12thMan;983732]He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.[/quote]

So every player picked in the first round should be the top 4 at their position? Statistically, that's impossible. The fact that some people say he is an elite talent is also irrelevant. I could say John Beck is an elite talent, but that doesnt mean anyone should expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Does orakpo have the potential to get 15 sacks in a year? Sure, but so do half a dozen other players on any team. It all depends on what position a player plays, what scheme he's in, what plays are called, what offensive lines he's playing against, how immobile the quarterbacks are, etc. If Haslett called CB blitzes every snap, Hall would probably have 15 sacks. You cant just look at a stat like sacks in a vaccum and grade a players quality and value based on that alone. I get that Orakpo may not have lived up to your personal expecations yet, but I think youre oversimplifying things and being a bit unrealistic.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=los panda;983719]kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo[/quote]

3 of them vs. Philly, For a good part of the season, especially when the Redskins needed wins against the Browns, the Ravens, Giants, and Dallas in those essential games against good teams he was nowhere to be found. Kerrigan is not the player you want to bank on. Kerrigan needs to show more against better competition.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;983711]It's excellent that Rob Jackson is there for depth purposes. But he's an overall better OLB in the 3-4 than Orakpo. I say that because he's not as good a pass rusher as Orakpo, but he's certainly better in coverage and has the talent to rush the passer from the edge effectively even if it's not as good as Orakpo.[/quote]

He is better at pass coverage and that is it. Jackson is not a better pass rusher or better against the run. So to say Jackson is a better overall linebacker in my opinion is incorrect since Orakpo is stronger at the point then Jackson, better at containment and a better pass rusher by a significant margin.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

The team can't afford to get rid of him. What if Orakpo gets hurt again? I'd use Jackson as a relief pitcher and have him available in case someone goes down.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;983735]So every player picked in the first round should be the top 4 at their position? Statistically, that's impossible. The fact that some people say he is an elite talent is also irrelevant. I could say John Beck is an elite talent, but that doesnt mean anyone should expect him to play like Peyton Manning. Does orakpo have the potential to get 15 sacks in a year? Sure, but so do half a dozen other players on any team. It all depends on what position a player plays, what scheme he's in, what plays are called, what offensive lines he's playing against, how immobile the quarterbacks are, etc. If Haslett called CB blitzes every snap, Hall would probably have 15 sacks. You cant just look at a stat like sacks in a vaccum and grade a players quality and value based on that alone. I get that Orakpo may not have lived up to your personal expecations yet, but I think youre oversimplifying things and being a bit unrealistic.[/quote]

I'm not necessarily arguing what's statistically possible. Though that's usually a good way to measure a pass rusher's effectiveness. My bottom line, for all the hype, I want to see Brian Orakpo step into the echelon of perennial pass NFL pass rushers. So far, he hasn't. If that's asking too much, then sue me. We can go back and forth about Haslett's system, but next year I'd like to see more from Orakpo.

The central question in my mind is this: Can this defense survive without him? Now that may be a simplistic view, but it's certainly one way to look at things.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

To be clear, I'm not on some let's trash Orakpo trip. Not at all.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

What do I know, I said D.Hall was top 15 CB.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;983700]What I would like to see is Hall putting on 10-15 pounds and becoming our starting free safety.[/quote]

Yeah he'll likely finish his career as FS, but he's got another couple good years at CB IMO. Either way retaining him for a reasonable contract would be ideal. I like Hall, always have.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

Have to either keep them both or get a player and high pick for Orakpo and draft a pass rush specialist with the pick a la Aldon Smith in his rookie year.

I am was also interested to see how well Orakpo was getting the olb position in a 3-4 this year. He seemed to be much better in the first couple of games, but it was really only 5 quarters of football. We talk about Jackson improving, and I completely agree. The more experience he gets as a player he gets better. The same could be said for what might have been in Orakpo's season.

I keep hearing that it takes an average player about 3-4 years of study, experience, and creating nfl instintics to become a good to great player.

I was expecting to see an exceptional player in Orakpo this year, and just for good measure I see Kerrigan having a better year next year then this.

So what is the point? I would hate to see a guy like Jackson and go somewhere else and tear it up. A la Chris Clemons, Antonio Pierce, and Ryan Clark

We are a team in need of secondary help with no first round pick, but an asset that may be able to be replace with two needs.

Would a good secondary player ( CB or S ) and a 2nd round pick make you listen to an offer for Rak?

[QUOTE=FRPLG;983305]Jackson's probably played himself to a better contract than Lorenzo but neither should be getting a starter's deal. Lorenzo is a Lego you put in 6 different places and you know he'll be solid. Jackson seems to be a good guy with solid football smarts and a dash of football-player athleticism thrown in but he isn't an every down force. He's a fantastic depth player who can start for you in a pinch. Good teams develop players like that, lose them when they perform, replace them with someone similarly skilled and develop that new person.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what good teams do. They develop talent late in the draft to get seasons such as Rob Jackson's 2012 season and then let other teams overpay them.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;983804]This is exactly what good teams do. They develop talent late in the draft to get seasons such as Rob Jackson's 2012 season and then let other teams overpay them.[/quote]
We have certainly been the recipient of the overpaid portion of this scenario in years gone bye.........

No who wants depth? Are u kidding me with this question? Giants were like three deep at d- end when they won two superbowls. Of course there is!

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

One thing that I think hasn't been considered is what Rob Jackson wants to do. He certainly knows it's a contract year, and after riding the bench for so long, he might want the opportunity to be a starter elsewhere. If that's the case I expect the Redskins to let him test the market. If someone will let him be a starter, good luck to him. If not, maybe they'd give him a new deal to keep him for depth. I certainly wouldn't mind having him back next year, but there's a good chance we should start planning Plan B scenarios in case he doesn't come back (aka replace him in the draft).

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

Plenty of room for both!

Fletch is on his way out we could use all the help at LB we can get or keep.
OLB or MLB doesnt matter. We need him.

Fletch has maybe next year left tops, maybe two but i doubt that.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

Funny, every year we all think Fletch has ONE more year left and comes back and puts up Pro Bowl numbers.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

there is room for them both .. that's what depth is all about .. Orakpo is coming back from a few seasons of injuries .. maybe he's a guy who doesn't play every down or whatever .. Jackson/Orakpo combo sounds nice and Kerrigan just keeps getting hungrier the closer we get to playoffs .. the whole team does .. even watching B Mitch on comcast, i swear to god he's ready to knock someones head off for the past 5 weeks. I love him as sportscaster.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=12thMan;983747]To be clear, I'm not on some let's trash Orakpo trip. Not at all.[/quote]

I'm not either but I understand what you're saying. Orakpo is a good pass rusher, and his bull rush is effective, but I feel that's his only move, and if the tackle he's going up against is good against it then he's pretty limited. It's better than nothing but I feel the elite rushers have a wide array of moves they can use to get past the tackle, i.e. the bullrush, the rip, the club, spin move, etc.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=12thMan;983903]Funny, every year we all think Fletch has ONE more year left and comes back and puts up Pro Bowl numbers.[/quote]

Dude i wish Fletch was a machine but as far as keeping Rob Jax its a good case, people said the same thing about Ray Lewis then boom its just over.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

We keep both Rob J. and Brian Orakpo next season. We sign Rob to a 3 year deal and Rak is still under contract. Rak has to prove he can stay healthy a full season. Rak has to be looking at the way Rob J. has played and needs to step us his game for next season. We need good back ups at the OLB positions. The Redskins will keep Jackson he has shown us his value to the team.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

I know it's been said before but Jackson and Rak are such different types of players it's hard to compare. I do think Rak is the better every down player between the two and is better at sealing the corner and stopping the run. He also gets held a lot more and as the defense improves he'll get more of those calls. The two do such different things. IMO, a defense with both is much better and if Haslett comes back he should come up with good ways to use both.
As for affording both, unless the year finishes with a SB victory and Jackson gets a couple picks while winning the SB MVP causing the Raiders to throw $6 million a season at him, my guess is he'll re-sign before FA starts.