Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=SkinzWin;978158]Boil it down to the simple fact that the Jets have no ability to select quality, or even mediocre players in the draft or via Free Agency. They have NO ONE around Sanchez. Defense is average, no run game, no receivers to throw to. NOTHING. The GM and Rexy's personnel selections ain't so sexy. Poopoo talent=bye bye job.[/quote]

Exactly, all their quality players were selected during the Eric Mangini era, now the question is will anyone want to trade for Sanchez.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=donofriose;978161]Exactly, all their quality players were selected during the Eric Mangini era, now the question is will anyone want to trade for Sanchez.[/quote]

Someone will be stupid enough to. Arizona, Buffalo, Kansas City, maybe even Jacksonville, Oakland or San Diego (If Rivers is traded).

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=donofriose;978147]Rex Ryan inherited a team that went 9-7 the year before him, and goes 9-7 again but just got lucky that he made the playoffs. He has no leadership in that locker room, his team looks completely lost, for some reason the drafts before he was there were solid even with the GM they had (with the exception Gholston of course) and then when he arrives they start picking players like... Mark Sanchez. A bunch of questionable off season moves like giving Scott 48 million when he was on the decline, looked good a couple of games and everyone thought he was a beast. This year he is showing that one season is not worth what they signed him for.

Rex Ryan is a defensive coordinator he has shown lack of leadership in that locker room, he does not evaluate talent well at all seeing as all his good players were there before he arrived, he inherited a good/talented team and then messed it up and you can see just by watching the jets they are leaderless.[/quote]

^^This. Plus watching Hard Knocks with all Rex's yelling and screaming is not how a strong leader and in-control coach acts. It wont matter who the Jets bring in at QB or any other position, as long as Rex is HC that team is going nowhere.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=donofriose;978147]Rex Ryan inherited a team that went 9-7 the year before him, and goes 9-7 again but just got lucky that he made the playoffs. He has no leadership in that locker room, his team looks completely lost, for some reason the drafts before he was there were solid even with the GM they had (with the exception Gholston of course) and then when he arrives they start picking players like... Mark Sanchez. A bunch of questionable off season moves like giving Scott 48 million when he was on the decline, looked good a couple of games and everyone thought he was a beast. This year he is showing that one season is not worth what they signed him for.

Rex Ryan is a defensive coordinator he has shown lack of leadership in that locker room, he does not evaluate talent well at all seeing as all his good players were there before he arrived, he inherited a good/talented team and then messed it up and you can see just by watching the jets they are leaderless.[/quote]

OK let's start with a definition of Tangible evidencs. "Evidence that can be supported by numbers" otherwise known as "Tangible Data" (my paraphrase). You started off well by using the teams 9-7 record the year before he took over and then provided his 9-7 record the next year. You then did state that he made the playoffs. Here is all of the tangible evidence that you left out.

Mangini - 9-7 - 3rd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 9-7 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 11-5 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 8-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 6-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed playoffs (out of contention week 16)

Ryan is 34-28 (.548) in the regular season and 4-2 in the post season (.667)

He has made the playoffs 2 out of 4 seasons


Let's put that into a comparison

Coughlin w Giants 82-60 (.577) in the regular season and 8-3 in the post season (.727)

He has made the playoffs 5 out of 9 seasons.

The numbers are comparable. Rex may not have Coughlin's 2 Superbowl's but he has very similar numbers.

The intangibles as you stated would be the bad personnel decisions and the lack of maturity in the Lockerroom etc.

You state that he has shown lack of leadership in the locker room. That's debatable. Some coaches want the locker room to run wild. It doesn't mean that he is not in charge, he want's them a little out of control. Examples include Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami and the Oakland Raiders with Al Davis.

You said that he doesn't evaluate talent well at all. Well, I will not agree or disagree with this one. I will say that the last time I checked however, each NFL team has it's own scouts, talent evaluators, and GM. It's their job to evaluate talent. The HC just chips in, but it is not ultimately his job.

You say that they are leaderless, I would say that offensively you would be correct; Mark Sanchez is not a good leader. On defense they have plently of leadership and they play pretty good. That's not a lack of leadership from coaching it's a lack of leadership from the player. You cannot make someone be a leader. Trust me.

You state that he inherited a good team. Brett Favre couldn't make that offense good. He led the Vikings to the playoffs the very next season.

I think that if you give Rex a decent and mature QB, then the Jets can be a force in the NFL.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Angry;978183]OK let's start with a definition of Tangible evidencs. "Evidence that can be supported by numbers" otherwise known as "Tangible Data" (my paraphrase). You started off well by using the teams 9-7 record the year before he took over and then provided his 9-7 record the next year. You then did state that he made the playoffs. Here is all of the tangible evidence that you left out.

Mangini - 9-7 - 3rd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 9-7 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 11-5 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 8-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 6-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed playoffs (out of contention week 16)

Ryan is 34-28 (.548) in the regular season and 4-2 in the post season (.667)

He has made the playoffs 2 out of 4 seasons


Let's put that into a comparison

Coughlin w Giants 82-60 (.577) in the regular season and 8-3 in the post season (.727)

He has made the playoffs 5 out of 9 seasons.

The numbers are comparable. Rex may not have Coughlin's 2 Superbowl's but he has very similar numbers.

The intangibles as you stated would be the bad personnel decisions and the lack of maturity in the Lockerroom etc.

You state that he has shown lack of leadership in the locker room. That's debatable. Some coaches want the locker room to run wild. It doesn't mean that he is not in charge, he want's them a little out of control. Examples include Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami and the Oakland Raiders with Al Davis.

You said that he doesn't evaluate talent well at all. Well, I will not agree or disagree with this one. I will say that the last time I checked however, each NFL team has it's own scouts, talent evaluators, and GM. It's their job to evaluate talent. The HC just chips in, but it is not ultimately his job.

You say that they are leaderless, I would say that offensively you would be correct; Mark Sanchez is not a good leader. On defense they have plently of leadership and they play pretty good. That's not a lack of leadership from coaching it's a lack of leadership from the player. You cannot make someone be a leader. Trust me.

You state that he inherited a good team. Brett Favre couldn't make that offense good. He led the Vikings to the playoffs the very next season.

I think that if you give Rex a decent and mature QB, then the Jets can be a force in the NFL.[/quote]

Thats completely bAss ackwards. They did such a good job Rex's first two years because they had a butt load of talent. A top 5 defense. A great running game. Competent wide receivers. All Sanchez had to do was game manage, make a few throws and the run game and the defense won the games. Typical AFC North style football.

But Rex and their GM are obviously horrible at finding talent and managing a roster. They have done so poorly not because Sanchez has gotten worse, but because the team around him has gotten worse. Sanchez is Alex Smith to a tee. He can manage the game for you, make some throws, but you have to put a great team around them to get deep into the playoffs. They aren't going to put the team on their backs and win games for you like the Brady's and the Mannings' do.

Look at their roster:
Chaz Schilens
Jeremy Kerley
Braylon Edwards
Konrad Reuland
Jeff Cumberland
Shonn Greene
Ronnie Hillman

Sanchez has no one. Instead of filling these needs they don't get any help for the WR corps, sign TIM TEBOW who they won't even start and barely play, the defense signed high priced, aging players who are not performing to their contracts. It's a cut and dry Vinny Cerrato team.

Your argument is not valid because you completely ignore the main issue with the team. Personnel. Every team is different as far as how involved the head coach is with personnel decisions, but they have some input. Most of it goes on the GM, but he needs to go too. Rex needs to go because his rah rah style only works when you have talent and are winning. When you don't have the talent and are losing you get malcontents in the locker room who start outing each other anonymously and making for a bad team environment because you have assembled a team of high paid free agents, not a cohesive team.

Reference: See Cerrato, Vinny and Redskins, The Washington 1999-2010

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

I agree Angry that Sanchez isnt a good leader but IMO its the HC's job to help him develop into one and I just dont think Rex is a good role model for teaching and developing leadership.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Angry;978183]OK let's start with a definition of Tangible evidencs. "Evidence that can be supported by numbers" otherwise known as "Tangible Data" (my paraphrase). You started off well by using the teams 9-7 record the year before he took over and then provided his 9-7 record the next year. You then did state that he made the playoffs. Here is all of the tangible evidence that you left out.

Mangini - 9-7 - 3rd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 9-7 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 11-5 - 2nd in AFC East - Lost AFC Championship Game
Ryan - 8-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed Playoffs
Ryan - 6-8 - 2nd in AFC East - Missed playoffs (out of contention week 16)

Ryan is 34-28 (.548) in the regular season and 4-2 in the post season (.667)

He has made the playoffs 2 out of 4 seasons


Let's put that into a comparison

Coughlin w Giants 82-60 (.577) in the regular season and 8-3 in the post season (.727)

He has made the playoffs 5 out of 9 seasons.

The numbers are comparable. Rex may not have Coughlin's 2 Superbowl's but he has very similar numbers.

The intangibles as you stated would be the bad personnel decisions and the lack of maturity in the Lockerroom etc.

You state that he has shown lack of leadership in the locker room. That's debatable. Some coaches want the locker room to run wild. It doesn't mean that he is not in charge, he want's them a little out of control. Examples include Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami and the Oakland Raiders with Al Davis.

You said that he doesn't evaluate talent well at all. Well, I will not agree or disagree with this one. I will say that the last time I checked however, each NFL team has it's own scouts, talent evaluators, and GM. It's their job to evaluate talent. The HC just chips in, but it is not ultimately his job.

You say that they are leaderless, I would say that offensively you would be correct; Mark Sanchez is not a good leader. On defense they have plently of leadership and they play pretty good. That's not a lack of leadership from coaching it's a lack of leadership from the player. You cannot make someone be a leader. Trust me.

You state that he inherited a good team. Brett Favre couldn't make that offense good. He led the Vikings to the playoffs the very next season.

I think that if you give Rex a decent and mature QB, then the Jets can be a force in the NFL.[/quote]

1) You can't just state Coughlin's two superbowls and act like they do not account for anything. Comparing a two-time superbowl winning coach to a coach who hasn't won anything is not a good comparison.

2) A coach who you can compare to Rex Ryan...
Norv Turner... 53-39 (.576) but has shown a decline from when he took over at San Diego, he has been to the playoffs 4-8 times with San Diego, or 50% of the time just like... Rex Ryan. Yet most people belive Norv Turner cannot be a head coach. He has similar numbers to Rex Ryan, so which one is he, is he Norv Turner or is he a coach who was a proven winner at Jacksonville and a two time superbowl winning coach with players that he drafted. Difference between Coughlin and Ryan however, one coach inherited a team that was 9-7 the year before the other inherited a team that was 4-12 and had the number one draft pick. Also one thing they always say Turner lacked... leadership.

3) Leadership is a coach's responsibility. NO coach wants the locker room to run wild, Jimmy Johnson had control of his locker room at Dallas and drafted leaders like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin. Leadership is absolutely a coaches responsibility. If you want a team to listen to you and respect you, you have to be a leader of men, look what happened at Dallas, a player passed away and Garret showed leadership in the way he handled that situation, and now their team is in playoff contention yet again.

4) I do not think it is coincidence that once Rex Ryan took over they started making questionable off season decisions. Tannedbaum has been there since 2006 (same year Mangini got hired) and had good drafts with Mangini, then all of a sudden Ryan gets hired and he starts to look terrible. Its not just coincidence in my opinion. I don't like Tannedbaum either by the way.

5) Brett Favre was successful with that team, their offense was good, if you recall Brett Favre injured his arm the final 5 games of that season when they started 8-3 and then went 1-4 which knocked them out of the playoff race.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

Rex Ryan is a good defensive coordinator, I do not believe he is a good head coach.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

I think what is lost in the Jets discussion is how much of a terrible job Mike Tanenbaum (sp?) has done as a GM.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Ruhskins;978203]I think what is lost in the Jets discussion is how much of a terrible job Mike Tanenbaum (sp?) has done as a GM.[/quote]

I think the entire office and coaching staff needs to be removed. Clean Slate.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

Man, the Jets get more hype and talk these days than the Cowboys.

I don't get it.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Mattyk;978212]Man, the Jets get more hype and talk these days than the Cowboys.

I don't get it.[/quote]if you tebow it, they will come

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Mattyk;978212]Man, the Jets get more hype and talk these days than the Cowboys.

I don't get it.[/quote]

Because of Tebow and people love to hate Rex Ryan.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=SkinzWin;978187]Thats completely bAss ackwards. They did such a good job Rex's first two years because they had a butt load of talent. A top 5 defense. A great running game. Competent wide receivers. All Sanchez had to do was game manage, make a few throws and the run game and the defense won the games. Typical AFC North style football.

But Rex and their GM are obviously horrible at finding talent and managing a roster. They have done so poorly not because Sanchez has gotten worse, but because the team around him has gotten worse. Sanchez is Alex Smith to a tee. He can manage the game for you, make some throws, but you have to put a great team around them to get deep into the playoffs. They aren't going to put the team on their backs and win games for you like the Brady's and the Mannings' do.

Look at their roster:
Chaz Schilens
Jeremy Kerley
Braylon Edwards
Konrad Reuland
Jeff Cumberland
Shonn Greene
Ronnie Hillman

Sanchez has no one. Instead of filling these needs they don't get any help for the WR corps, sign TIM TEBOW who they won't even start and barely play, the defense signed high priced, aging players who are not performing to their contracts. It's a cut and dry Vinny Cerrato team.

Your argument is not valid because you completely ignore the main issue with the team. Personnel. Every team is different as far as how involved the head coach is with personnel decisions, but they have some input. Most of it goes on the GM, but he needs to go too. Rex needs to go because his rah rah style only works when you have talent and are winning. When you don't have the talent and are losing you get malcontents in the locker room who start outing each other anonymously and making for a bad team environment because you have assembled a team of high paid free agents, not a cohesive team.

Reference: See Cerrato, Vinny and Redskins, The Washington 1999-2010[/quote]

Nowhere have I ignored the personnel issue. I am stating that it does not fall on the coach. You referenced Cerato, Vinny and the Redskins. Even you did not state Gibbs, Zorn or any plethora of coaches during that term. It is not a coaching problem. He is working with what he has been given. You only mentioned the backs and recievers that are not injured. Did Rex go all Tanya Harding on his starters?

Rex Ryan has a winning record after 4 season and has been to the AFC Championship game twice. His numbers do not warrant a coaching change for at least another season. I agree that there are personnel issues and that his team seems to be on the decline, but I believe that he can turn it around with an equally talented, but more mature QB.

The problem is the GM and the QB, not Rex. I am at an impasse and will not respond on this subject any further.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=donofriose;978198]1) You can't just state Coughlin's two superbowls and act like they do not account for anything. Comparing a two-time superbowl winning coach to a coach who hasn't won anything is not a good comparison.

2) A coach who you can compare to Rex Ryan...
Norv Turner... 53-39 (.576) but has shown a decline from when he took over at San Diego, he has been to the playoffs 4-8 times with San Diego, or 50% of the time just like... Rex Ryan. Yet most people belive Norv Turner cannot be a head coach. He has similar numbers to Rex Ryan, so which one is he, is he Norv Turner or is he a coach who was a proven winner at Jacksonville and a two time superbowl winning coach with players that he drafted. Difference between Coughlin and Ryan however, one coach inherited a team that was 9-7 the year before the other inherited a team that was 4-12 and had the number one draft pick. Also one thing they always say Turner lacked... leadership.

3) Leadership is a coach's responsibility. NO coach wants the locker room to run wild, Jimmy Johnson had control of his locker room at Dallas and drafted leaders like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin. Leadership is absolutely a coaches responsibility. If you want a team to listen to you and respect you, you have to be a leader of men, look what happened at Dallas, a player passed away and Garret showed leadership in the way he handled that situation, and now their team is in playoff contention yet again.

4) I do not think it is coincidence that once Rex Ryan took over they started making questionable off season decisions. Tannedbaum has been there since 2006 (same year Mangini got hired) and had good drafts with Mangini, then all of a sudden Ryan gets hired and he starts to look terrible. Its not just coincidence in my opinion. I don't like Tannedbaum either by the way.

5) Brett Favre was successful with that team, their offense was good, if you recall Brett Favre injured his arm the final 5 games of that season when they started 8-3 and then went 1-4 which knocked them out of the playoff race.[/quote]

Lat one

1) He didn't win those Superbowls until after his 5th season (They wanted to fire him too)

2) Norv Turner inherited a stacked and consistent Playoff team led by Phillip Rivers. Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB.

3) I think you missed the argument there. They respected the coach but he allowed them to act out. Watch ESPN's 30 for 30 "The U". Many coaches had an "Us against the world" attitude and it works.

4) The GM is responsible for his own actions.

5) Brett Favre and that team went 9-7 finished 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=irish;978195]I agree Angry that Sanchez isnt a good leader but IMO its the HC's job to help him develop into one and I just dont think Rex is a good role model for teaching and developing leadership.[/quote]

That's a good point.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Angry;978237]Lat one

1) He didn't win those Superbowls until after his 5th season (They wanted to fire him too)

2) Norv Turner inherited a stacked and consistent Playoff team led by Phillip Rivers. Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB.

3) I think you missed the argument there. They respected the coach but he allowed them to act out. Watch ESPN's 30 for 30 "The U". Many coaches had an "Us against the world" attitude and it works.

4) The GM is responsible for his own actions.

5) Brett Favre and that team went 9-7 finished 3rd in the division and missed the playoffs.[/quote]

1) They won a superbowl in his 4th year, not his 5th and they didn't want him fired until last year.

2) "Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB." And this is his fourth season and what are the Jets... [B]A team that missed the playoffs that still has no QB[/B]. He hasn't done anything to improve the team.

3) Johnson still had control of the team. Ryan does not, that locker room was split last year because the players had lost respect for Ryan, the problem was the Ryan made it obvious that Sanchez was above the team, he hitched his wagon to Sanchez and wanted Sanchez to be a leader he was not and never will be. He made Sanchez above the team and because of this he lost the locker room which is an obvious weakness in leadership.

4) The GM is responsible, but so is the coach. I do not like either and do feel the Jets should start over in the front office and their coaching staff, but look at the players tannenbaum brought in while Mangini was the coach... Fergurson, Mangold, Leon Washington, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Revis, D. Harris, and Keller... who has Ryan brought in with the same gm? All their impact players were brought in during the Mangini era even though it was the same GM.

5) I said they missed the playoffs but the reason they missed the playoffs is because Brett Favre got injured and they lost 4 out of their final five games after he got injured (8-3 with him healthy). I believe it was later revealed that he had a torn bicep and the league fined the Jets for it if I remember correctly.

The point is Rex Ryan deserves blame too. He is not the worst coach in the league but if he gets fired he deserves to be fired. He decided to ride with Sanchez and now it might cost him his job. And if it does he deserves to be fired for being dumb enough to ride with a QB like Sanchez.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

I watched a press conference today with Rex Ryan trying to explain why he went with McElroy as the starter for this week. He sounded like he had no confidence in his decision and generally came accross as a bumbling idiot. He doesn't strike me as head coach material.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

Joe Gibbs once said that the most important player on your team is the quarterback, and the 2nd most important is the backup QB. Now that we finally have those roles competently filled, we shouldn't look to trade Cousins unless someone offers a first round pick. Anything less shouldn't be considered.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=SouperMeister;978295]Joe Gibbs once said that the most important player on your team is the quarterback, and the 2nd most important is the backup QB. Now that we finally have those roles competently filled, we shouldn't look to trade Cousins unless someone offers a first round pick. Anything less shouldn't be considered.[/quote]

I'm actually relieved about what Mike Shahanan said about not trading Cousins. But Shanahan says a lot of things to get people to thinking one thing when he intends to do another.....but if he says Cousins won't be traded then you have to take him at his word.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=donofriose;978286]1) They won a superbowl in his 4th year, not his 5th and they didn't want him fired until last year.

2) "Rex inherited a team that missed the playoffs and had no QB." And this is his fourth season and what are the Jets... [B]A team that missed the playoffs that still has no QB[/B]. He hasn't done anything to improve the team.

3) Johnson still had control of the team. Ryan does not, that locker room was split last year because the players had lost respect for Ryan, the problem was the Ryan made it obvious that Sanchez was above the team, he hitched his wagon to Sanchez and wanted Sanchez to be a leader he was not and never will be. He made Sanchez above the team and because of this he lost the locker room which is an obvious weakness in leadership.

4) The GM is responsible, but so is the coach. I do not like either and do feel the Jets should start over in the front office and their coaching staff, but look at the players tannenbaum brought in while Mangini was the coach... Fergurson, Mangold, Leon Washington, Eric Smith, Brad Smith, Revis, D. Harris, and Keller... who has Ryan brought in with the same gm? All their impact players were brought in during the Mangini era even though it was the same GM.

5) I said they missed the playoffs but the reason they missed the playoffs is because Brett Favre got injured and they lost 4 out of their final five games after he got injured (8-3 with him healthy). I believe it was later revealed that he had a torn bicep and the league fined the Jets for it if I remember correctly.

The point is Rex Ryan deserves blame too. He is not the worst coach in the league but if he gets fired he deserves to be fired. He decided to ride with Sanchez and now it might cost him his job. And if it does he deserves to be fired for being dumb enough to ride with a QB like Sanchez.[/quote]

1) Thank you for correcting my stat about winning after his fifth year. You are correct he won in his 4th. The fans did want Coughlin fired after going 8-8 in his third season and before they exploded on their SB run in the 4th. Remember, their game against us was the turning point that season.

2) Your right, but who's responsible for drafting Sanchez? Scouts, critics, and Pete Carol didn't believe that Sanchez was ready for the NFL. The Jets took a shot at him anyway. Is that on the coach or the GM?

Arguing points 3-5 can go back and forth all day. There is too much speculation involved. I will not change your mind and you definately will not change mine.

I say that Rex has earned at least one more year with a new QB. You believe that they should blow it up now. Ultimately it's not our call. One thing is for sure, Cousins will not be the QB if Rex does get another shot. Good Day!

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=SouperMeister;978295]Joe Gibbs once said that the most important player on your team is the quarterback, and the 2nd most important is the backup QB. Now that we finally have those roles competently filled, we shouldn't look to trade Cousins unless someone offers a first round pick. Anything less shouldn't be considered.[/quote]

...words from the wise.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;977683]I would not pay a CB 15 mil/yr which is exactly the type of money he's wanting in a extension. Add that to the fact he just tore a ACL and you can forget it.[/quote]

Hes a lockdown corner. And hell be back up to full speed he hasnt even played his peak season yet in my opinion.

Cousins & some solid change for Rev and Picks is a bold move but i like it.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Skins4L;978363]Hes a lockdown corner. And hell be back up to full speed he hasnt even played his peak season yet in my opinion.

Cousins & some solid change for Rev and Picks is a bold move but i like it.[/quote]

Exactly and you can ask Revis to take a good deal. Say 10 to 12 million. Also ask D Hall to reconstuct his deal. Then give T Will an extension for 9 mill a year. But to think to have Revis, DHall, Wilson, Minnifield, and Crawford makes our CBs a strength on defense. Also if Xavier Rhodes or Amerson drops to that 2nd round pick you could have a potential shutdown CB that you can bring along slowly. And still able to get either a starting RT or Safety with the second 2nd round pick. You put a solid to great defense in the equation and we would have this division wrapped up already. I also feel Mike and Kyle can groom a young QB with good talent and great work ethic. Say we could get Nassib from Syracuse.

[QUOTE=SOUL-SKINS;978084]YEAAAHH !! EXACTLY !! ... Wait ? ... Didn't that kinda just happen last week ???[/QUOTE]

Seems like a lot of people are ready to say cousins is going to be a top notch player in the league and will always be able to step in when needed if we keep him. Consider me the minority on this one, but the league has been full of players that looked good in a small sample size. I'm not sure his trade value will ever be higher than it is right now even if he does turn into a decent player.

I would trade him if we could get a pick in the top 45 or a borderline probowl player.

[QUOTE=VegasSkinsFan;978371]Seems like a lot of people are ready to say cousins is going to be a top notch player in the league and will always be able to step in when needed if we keep him. Consider me the minority on this one, but the league has been full of players that looked good in a small sample size. I'm not sure his trade value will ever be higher than it is right now even if he does turn into a decent player.

I would trade him if we could get a pick in the top 45 or a borderline probowl player.[/QUOTE]

And to clarify, I do think cousins will be a good player in the league.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

NFL's 5 best trade chips
Kirk Cousins, others could bring solid returns in an offseason deal
Updated: December 21, 2012, 1:32 PM ET
By Chris Sprow | ESPN Insider


Kirk Cousins


Cousins
Why you shop him: It's absolutely fair to say Cousins means plenty to the Redskins. RG III has more carries (112) than any other NFL QB, five more than Cam Newton, and in one fewer game. He's had two scares this season, and his health will be a concern going forward. But an evaluator who has worked with Cousins told me, "He could start for four to five teams now, and that number will grow." The Redskins know it, and will have to test the market given two factors. One, a healthy RG III means a Redskins team that is ready now to challenge deep into the playoffs -- if they can fill holes. But the trade to get RG III gutted future drafts and they need picks to fill those holes, particularly in the secondary. Two, the need for a starter is about to shrink -- five rookie QBs are starting and playing well, reducing the market significantly from where it was 10 months ago. If Arizona, the Jets and Kansas City find solutions at QB for 2013, the Redskins' current leverage is gutted. Third, Mike Shanahan's system can be run effectively by a veteran backup in spurts when needed, one the Redskins hope they don't need. Cousins isn't required.


What makes sense: We suspected Cousins was a play for future trade value to recoup picks when he was picked. Given where the Redskins are, with the playoffs in sight and Cousins' stock soaring, could that plan have gone better? They need to listen, and aim for a deal built around a second-round pick. Maybe two of them.

Fit: The Jets or Chiefs make sense.

Sorry but I don't want to trade kc this offseason but hey if they offer a 2nd I guess we have to

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Angry;978224]Nowhere have I ignored the personnel issue. I am stating that it does not fall on the coach. You referenced Cerato, Vinny and the Redskins. Even you did not state Gibbs, Zorn or any plethora of coaches during that term. It is not a coaching problem. He is working with what he has been given. You only mentioned the backs and recievers that are not injured. Did Rex go all Tanya Harding on his starters?

Rex Ryan has a winning record after 4 season and has been to the AFC Championship game twice. His numbers do not warrant a coaching change for at least another season. I agree that there are personnel issues and that his team seems to be on the decline, but I believe that he can turn it around with an equally talented, but more mature QB.

The problem is the GM and the QB, not Rex. I am at an impasse and will not respond on this subject any further.[/quote]

But I will. Much of the problem is the GM. Rex did great with his coaching style at the beginning. But like I said, reckless only works if you are winning. When you start to lose those "loose cannons" cause locker room issues. Rex even was quoted as saying he didn't have a great feel for his own locker room. You can't tell me that his approach has been effective the last two years. His three ring quarterback circus has been a joke.

Tebow been active all year.
McElroy been inactive.
Sanchez plays bad. (again, and again, and…)
Bench Sanchez.
Tebow inactive.
McElroy plays from third string.
Sanchez back in next game.
Gets benched again.
Skip over Tebow.
McElroy starts.
Tebow wants to be cut or traded.
Sanchez trade rumors swirl, but his contract will probably keep him there next year.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=SkinzWin;978697]But I will. Much of the problem is the GM. Rex did great with his coaching style at the beginning. But like I said, reckless only works if you are winning. When you start to lose those "loose cannons" cause locker room issues. Rex even was quoted as saying he didn't have a great feel for his own locker room. You can't tell me that his approach has been effective the last two years. His three ring quarterback circus has been a joke.

Tebow been active all year.
McElroy been inactive.
Sanchez plays bad. (again, and again, and…)
Bench Sanchez.
Tebow inactive.
McElroy plays from third string.
Sanchez back in next game.
Gets benched again.
Skip over Tebow.
McElroy starts.
Tebow wants to be cut or traded.
Sanchez trade rumors swirl, but his contract will probably keep him there next year.[/quote]

Dude, who are you trying to convince, me or yourself? I am not budging. Right now it seems as if the both of us are only responding in order to get the last word in. Truth be told; I don't care. It's the stinking Jets! You are this close to being the first on my ignor list. Unless your next response is "I agree to disagree" then you're there. I will allow you to get the last word, but please just agree to disagree and move on. This is admittedly probably one of this silliest arguments I have been in on this board. I frankly am ashamed of myself for letting it go this far. For the love of all that is going right for the Skins this season just let it go.

You make some valid points, but they are not enough for me to say "fire Rex!". Got it?

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;978696]Sorry but I don't want to trade kc this offseason but hey if they offer a 2nd I guess we have to[/quote]

Until RG3 makes a full evolution to being a pocket passer and better QB's enter the league I'm very hesitant to give up Cousins. Now granted I pointed out before that we're already seeing the evolution of RG3 towards pocket passer as illustrated again by the following stats.

First 6 games: 7 TD Passes 6 Rushing TD's
Last 7 Games: 13 TD Passes, 0 Rushing TD's.

However he's still using his feet enough to scare the life out of us no less then 3 or 4 times a game. And obviously he's been injured since Baltimore due to a freak accident on a scramble.

Either way the upcoming shortage of passers coming into the league is very worrisome. Both in 2013 and 2014.

Sure it's great for pumping up Cousins value but until RG3 shows he can stay healthy for long stretches we need him more then a 2nd and or 3rd round pick. I can live without another Jenkins and LeRibeus though I wouldn't object to more players like them.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

This is great....I can't remember the last time anyone was discussing trading for ANY Redskin player within the last 10 years. Can you?

Keep Cousins...I like other fans being Jealous of our players!

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000114460/article/kyle-shanahankirk-cousins-package-could-entice-many-teams]Kyle Shanahan-Kirk Cousins package could entice many teams - NFL.com[/url]

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;978708]Until RG3 makes a full evolution to being a pocket passer and better QB's enter the league I'm very hesitant to give up Cousins. Now granted I pointed out before that we're already seeing the evolution of RG3 towards pocket passer as illustrated again by the following stats.

First 6 games: 7 TD Passes 6 Rushing TD's
Last 7 Games: 13 TD Passes, 0 Rushing TD's.

However he's still using his feet enough to scare the life out of us no less then 3 or 4 times a game. And obviously he's been injured since Baltimore due to a freak accident on a scramble.

Either way the upcoming shortage of passers coming into the league is very worrisome. Both in 2013 and 2014.

Sure it's great for pumping up Cousins value but until RG3 shows he can stay healthy for long stretches we need him more then a 2nd and or 3rd round pick. I can live without another Jenkins and LeRibeus though I wouldn't object to more players like them.[/quote]

Very good post. What's the old saying? The 2nd most important position on the team is back up QB. It's a good feeling to now know that we have two young guys that have shown that they can play the position at a high level. We need Cousins and hopefully he stays around for a few more years.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=donofriose;978199]Rex Ryan is a good defensive coordinator, I do not believe he is a good head coach.[/quote]

Would you have said that after his first two seasons? Nope. Rex can coach. They simply don't have any players on offense. Plus they're missing Revis.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;978745][url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000114460/article/kyle-shanahankirk-cousins-package-could-entice-many-teams]Kyle Shanahan-Kirk Cousins package could entice many teams - NFL.com[/url][/quote]

Alright, it's time to re-up on Kyle before all this speculation turns into true interest...

Y would anyone leave RG3

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;978749]Y would anyone leave RG3[/quote]

Yep. Exactly. No need to leave the leagues new star. Only QBs I would think of that are comparabile would be Luck, Brees (should Payton leave) and Wilson, because Aaron Rodgers, Brady, and Manning. But all those guys are good with their HC's and won't get them fired anytime soon.

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;978749]Y would anyone leave RG3[/QUOTE]

I'd ride it out with the Skins because Shanny Sr. will only be here another 3-5 years max. The pluses to stay will prob be to great to run into a bad situation somewhere else.

Re: Cousins Value Skyrockets,Jets Fans Want Him!!
 

Totally agree with Cousins value having gone up. What we should do is trade RG3 now that he's proven he can play for more 1st round picks then we gave up and start Cousins next year.