Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

(Nothing against LeRib he's the kind of OL I like, I'm a draft junkie and heard about LeRib in a few articles by Gil Brandt)
[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927802] I would say that Mcribb was seen as a guy who was who they had targeted for that spot for whatever reason. Just bringing in a tackle at that spot for the same of bringing in a tackle doesn't make sense when you have a higher rated player.[/quote]
Well of course 'just bringing' a player at any position for the sake of bringing a player never makes sense in that case.

Teams draft the players they have rated higher on their boards.
So according to their boards the picks they make are usually 'correct' based on their boards.
But, that doesn't make the decision correct in actuality.
Only time can judge whether or not a team made a correct evaluation in drafting vs passing on a player.

[quote]I did specify a position in my post with a little lower case t. :)[/quote]My bad then, I didn' know what that lil t was, i thought it was a typo.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

30. I am not limiting the round of the pick and nor am I saying that we couldn't have used a tackle in the third or fourth round. There is a method to the skins FO madness and to this point they have done a decent job of turning over the team to get more productive guys.

Like I said above I would have liked to have seen a different approach in FA where there was opportunity to upgrade the position with the money that was spent on Morgan in particular.

I am sure that the RT spot is something where the Skins are looking for a long term solution but during this offseason and draft they didn't find the "right" player to put their resources into.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

When did the RT position become so important in lieu of everything else?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927806]When did the RT position become so important in lieu of everything else?[/quote]I don't know when did?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=30gut;927804](Nothing against LeRib he's the kind of OL I like, I'm a draft junkie and heard about LeRib in a few articles by Gil Brandt)

Well of course 'just bringing' a player at any position for the sake of bringing a player never makes sense in that case.

Teams draft the players they have rated higher on their boards.
So according to their boards the picks they make are usually 'correct' based on their boards.
But, that doesn't make the decision correct in actuality.
Only time can judge whether or not a team made a correct evaluation in drafting vs passing on a player.

My bad then, I didn' know what that lil t was, i thought it was a typo.[/quote]

I agree with you 100% on the fact that teams don't make the correct decisions in the draft based on their ratings. If they did I am sure players would have longer average careers the 3 years and hell we may not even need to have a seven round draft every year.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Hey at least it's something to talk about.

Better than some of the conversations that were going on prior to training camp.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=RGIII;927798][B]What type of camp is Massie having right now? He's probably getting run over the "Rob Jacksons" of the league.[/B]..[/quote]

this made me laugh...Poor ole Willie, Rob Jackson is just playin to rough for him. Go over and sit between Kory L and effing Jamal Brown on the bench.


Dear Baby Jesus, please turn Tom "City of" Compton into a average RT.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

I'm way more upset we didn't add a legit corner over this

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927805]There is a method to the skins FO madness and to this point they have done a decent job of turning over the team to get more productive guys.[/quote]There maybe a method.
And I agree that by and large the FO is doing a good job.
It bugs the heck out of me that being critical of a specific decision somehow implies disagreement with the process as a whole.

[quote]...but during this offseason and draft they didn't find the "right" player to put their resources into.[/quote]It can be framed in whichever light you like, but the end result was Jammal Brown.

Its just that with a rookie QB, heading into a fairly important season (record-wise) it would be nice to have a more solid solution at RT.
Imo murphy laws applies to football and wherever a team has a weakness or lack of depth that is gonna become the critical area/weakest link.
A weak link on the OL can serious hinder an offense, especially an offense trying to bring along a rookie QB.

I'm hopeful that Tyler will step up, I'm actually assuming that Tyler had to factor into the FO comfort level at the RT position.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927809]Hey at least it's something to talk about.

Better than some of the conversations that were going on prior to training camp.[/quote]True.
And i'm a guy that likes the OL and running game by nature so this discussion is right up my alley.
I was fretting about RT all offseason.

I wonder how long it will take for people to get interested in talking about the Pistol formation?

Good convo-
I'm out

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927793]Drafting for need over BPA is never a good plan.[/quote]

I say it depends. If you have two players that are one or two points apart on your board and one fits a need then generally speaking the one that fits the need is obviously the better fit.

I feel like the part where teams get in trouble comes when they reach past 5 or 10 available players for a guy that happens to fit a need.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927811]I'm way more upset we didn't add a legit corner over this[/quote]

Yep.

But hey we did get a qb!

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=30gut;927813]True.
And i'm a guy that likes the OL and running game by nature so this discussion is right up my alley.
I was fretting about RT all offseason.

I wonder how long it will take for people to get interested in talking about the Pistol formation?

Good convo-
I'm out[/quote]

I know you are all about the big guys up front!

I also knew we had a few holes to fill this year. #1 QB # 2-7 being CB, OL across the board, WR, and Both Safety positions. We got a few players to fill those needs. (we hope and pray!)

Good talking to you 30.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;927755]LT Willie Smith
LG Mo Hurt
C Monty
RG Chris Chester
RT Tyler Polumbus


These guys were the starters in the last 4 games for us and they performed well.

So all you chicken littles, remind me again of why we should be panicking?[/quote]

If we had to go a full season with these guys I'd be pretty concerned.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927806]When did the RT position become so important in lieu of everything else?[/quote]

When the opportunity arose to pick apart the decisions of the front office again based on a little injury news.

Fact of the matter is I'd rather this happen now than after week 1. At least KL is expected back for the regular season.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=30gut;927790]Bringing Cousins into the discussion just confuses the discussion with peoples knee jerk desire to defend the Cousins pick so I'm not gonna comment on it.
But, with Jammal Brown's level of play, injury and missed starts an argument could be made that addressing the RT position should have been a higher priority.
I like profootball focus metrics and Jammal Brown had a terrible rating. (-18)
According to PFF Tyler was better then Brown but not by much (-16), but at least Tyler is young and you expect him to improve with playing time and maybe he develops into a league average RT?

But, right now that's just a hope.
And if Tyler is gonna be a starter then where is our quality depth?

Imo finding a more certain solution to the RT situation should have been a much higher priority.[/quote]

I don't think there can be any reasonable argument made backup QB was a greater need than RT starter/depth for what it's worth. The debate of WR vs RT is a good one; however, I come down solidly on the oline side of the debate, particularly when it's a rookie QB expected to be our superstar. In that respect, the risk, calculated or not, our FA took by neglecting the RT position is pretty shocking...something I'd expect from the 1st time HC like Zorn.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

I have, for the past couple of years, been a strong advocate that we need two strong young QBs. I stand by that.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;927818]When the opportunity arose to pick apart the decisions of the front office again based on a little injury news.

Fact of the matter is I'd rather this happen now than after week 1. At least KL is expected back for the regular season.[/quote]

And it does present an opportunity for the young guys to get a lot of reps with the first and second groups. Better to fail now then when it counts.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;927817]If we had to go a full season with these guys I'd be pretty concerned.[/quote]

...and yet they handled some of the best defensive lines in the NFL?? (see JR's post)


You guys absolutely kill me. :postcop:


Hatters! :hater:

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Never ending JB saga continues.

May not be any decision tomorrow. It's actually sounding like he may not need surgery. Question now is do you cut bait now, or maybe PUP him for the first 6 games and have him available for the back end?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Can he still be put on the pup? My understanding was if you practiced at all during camp you couldnt be put in the pup. (Malcolm Kelly last year)

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927820]I have, for the past couple of years, been a strong advocate that we need two strong young QBs. I stand by that.[/quote]

You definitely need two strong QBs when your OL is weak. I think the guys they have now will get better soon and when cut downs start and practice squads are designated, a OT or two will be brought in. I know for sure the team has guys already on their radar who are currently playing for other teams.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927832]Can he still be put on the pup? My understanding was if you practiced at all during camp you couldnt be put in the pup. (Malcolm Kelly last year)[/quote]

He hasn't practiced, so yeah

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927806]When did the RT position become so important in lieu of everything else?[/quote]

Since chico's Oline Offseason Edition thread where many agreed Oline and RT in particular were issues. I think QB, WR, S, RT, CB were all positions where improvement was needed. The Cap penalty was certainly an issue, but there were certainly veteran players who were available and affordable. Ill still point to both the 3rd and 4th round where there was solid RT talent. Options were available and we got fooled again.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Chico23231;927835]Since chico's Oline Offseason Edition thread where many agreed Oline and RT in particular were issues. I think QB, WR, S, RT, CB were all positions where improvement was needed. The Cap penalty was certainly an issue, but there were certainly veteran players who were available and affordable. Ill still point to both the 3rd and 4th round where there was solid RT talent. Options were available and we got fooled again.[/quote]

And we made an effort to get those guys. If we hadn't drafted LeRibeus in the 3rd people would be complaining we have no depth behind Lichtensteiger

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927820]I have, for the past couple of years, been a strong advocate that we need two strong young QBs. I stand by that.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.

But IMO Cousins is not the second young QB we need and we could have used the Cousins pick more wisely.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927829]Never ending JB saga continues.

May not be any decision tomorrow. It's actually sounding like he may not need surgery. Question now is do you cut bait now, or maybe PUP him for the first 6 games and have him available for the back end?[/quote]

I would rather young talent get the snaps. JB is a known commodity; we know he wont be healthy down the road. If consistency is key to O-Line play, he shouldnt be a part of it. Cut bait.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;927827]...and yet they handled some of the best defensive lines in the NFL?? (see JR's post)


You guys absolutely kill me. :postcop:


Hatters! :hater:[/quote]

Your's and Joe's argument is a good one.

However, multiple reports from camp say that Polumbus and Smith have struggled mightily. If they have regressed, then the argument for what they did last year is moot and the RT position is a concern.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Monksdown;927838]I would rather young talent get the snaps. JB is a known commodity; we know he wont be healthy down the road. If consistency is key to O-Line play, he shouldnt be a part of it. Cut bait.[/quote]

I'm with you.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Monksdown;927838]I would rather young talent get the snaps. JB is a known commodity; we know he wont be healthy down the road. If consistency is key to O-Line play, he shouldnt be a part of it. Cut bait.[/quote]+2
I was with you 2 offseasons ago.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927836]And we made an effort to get those guys. If we hadn't drafted LeRibeus in the 3rd people would be complaining we have no depth behind Lichtensteiger[/quote]

Is McRib gonna play guard? Heard that hasnt been going so well, looking more like a Center. SS, when does anyone complain around here?

Well at least Laron isnt fooling us again this year, only JB. Roger Daultrey should be our lead vocalist for the Skins.

Any word on Willie's injury?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Lotus;927839]Your's and Joe's argument is a good one.

However, multiple reports from camp say that Polumbus and Smith have struggled mightily. If they have regressed, then the argument for what they did last year is moot and the RT position is a concern.[/quote]


Let's watch a few pre-season and regular season games before we edge closer to that cliff. I think a few of us are saying lets wait and see mentality because we know it's only 1 week into training camp. You all very well may be right, but I think it's way too soon to start worrying.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Chico23231;927862]Is McRib gonna play guard? Heard that hasnt been going so well, looking more like a Center. SS, when does anyone complain around here?

Well at least Laron isnt fooling us again this year, only JB. Roger Daultrey should be our lead vocalist for the Skins.

Any word on Willie's injury?[/quote]

He's a rookie, for one thing. So struggles are expected. And he's learning both G and C

How exactly are you defining "complain"?

Willie is fine health wise

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[url=http://www.realredskins.com/rich-tandlers-real-redsk/2012/08/need-to-know-injuries-a-part-of-the-nfl.html]Need to Know: Injuries a part of the NFL camps - Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;927863]Let's watch a few pre-season and regular season games before we edge closer to that cliff. I think a few of us are saying lets wait and see mentality because we know it's only 1 week into training camp. You all very well may be right, but I think it's way too soon to start worrying.[/quote]

Yep. Wait and see is fine. We'll know more about 8 days from now.

On that note, only 8 days until Skins football!

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Regardless of the fact that J Brown doesn't need surgery, I wonder if they will still try and make a trade for another tackle. It's still early enough in camp that they could get someone better in to play than a guy with two hip injuries and Polumbus.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=mbedner3420;927867]Regardless of the fact that J Brown doesn't need surgery, I wonder if they will still try and make a trade for another tackle. It's still early enough in camp that they could get someone better in to play than a guy with two hip injuries and Polumbus.[/quote]

Lets be completely honest with ourselves, Jamal Brown is done. Other than a possible Cooley deal or late, late round draft picks we need to watch for cuts. That is where we will find vet help. Rather than trade picks, we should watch for roster cuts at this point. Would like to see Cooley traded for a Tackle, but thats gonna be a challenge.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Lotus;927839]Your's and Joe's argument is a good one.

However, multiple reports from camp say that Polumbus and Smith have struggled mightily. If they have regressed, then the argument for what they did last year is moot and the RT position is a concern.[/quote]

Yes. In camp, they appeared to have struggled. Heading into the offseason, however, it appeared that they were more than capable of handling a starting assignment. So ... going into the offseason, we had two guys (Polumbo, Smith) who appearred ready to be solid contributors with starting potential. Add in that,[I]during the offseason[/I], it appeared Brown was doing better.

So, where was the limitation on our offense last year? Let's take a look at WR's. They were pedestrian at best last year (when Gaffney is your leading WR, calling the unit pedestrian should be considered a complement). Hankerson looked good but had an injury concern [I]and[/I] hadn't shown himself to be a consistent threat. Moss underperformed and, as I understand, it was almost off the team. After Gaffney, the leading receivers are a TE (Davis, 58 - who is facing a one year suspension for his next positive test) and a rookie RB (Helu, 49 Rec.).

A reminder about our WR corps last year:
Gaffney: 69 Rec.
Moss: 46 Rec.
Stallworth: 22 rec.
Hankerson: 13
Austin: 12
Armstrong: 7
Banks: 6
Paul: 2

You talk about limiting an offense -- our WR corp limited the offense. Rex or no Rex. None of the WR's on the roster demonstrated that they were YAC guys, much less game breakers. It was a bunch of chain movers at best. What's the point of taking a 5 and 7 step drops when your top two WR's average 13.9/catch (Gaffney, 41st in the NFL last year) and 12.7/catch (Moss, 67th in the NFL)? Our highest yards/catch guy last year? [I]Mike Sellers[/I] (15.0/catch). If that is not a brutal idictment of the WR's, I am out.

Our QB situation - well, we know where that stood.

In comparison to those two positions, and playing our reserves, our line performed competently even with a statue like Rex back there.

The FO made some value judgments, someone earlier stated that Bruce thought next year's tackle quality will be much higher. Also, as SS intimated, it's not like on day one of free agency the choice was Garcon or Winston. No, it was Garcon or same old, same old. Winston came along after we addressed the WR position. Again, SS indicated they went after tackles but were priced out of the market between the cap penalty and the decision to prioritize the much more glaring need at WR.

As to Cousins, LeRibeus, over a RT in the 3rd or 4th - as Matty said, drafting for need gets you in trouble. I liked the Cousins pick, it was the right thing given our need to develop a back up at the game's most important position. If the step down in talent from starter to back-up is a concern at RT, a similar step down at QB is the end of a season (see Chicago last year). Grossman is not and never will be the long term answer at number two, QB's take time to develop. Again, based on their in-game performance, we had 2 and, hopefully, 3 guys (Brown being the third) who, based on their in-game performance, could competently cover the RT position. In that case, you trust your grades and go with the BPA.

The line is a concern. Should the FO made it a higher priority in the offseason? Maybe, but, given the other glaring needs that were bigger limitations on the offense, they certainly weren't idiots for not making it [I]the top priority [/I]after RGIII. It was a reasonable decision based on the prior season's performance at the WR, QB and OL positions.

Quite frankly ... I am [I]much, much[/I] more concerned with the defensive secondary than I am with the RT position.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora
Skins RT Jammal Brown's injury not serious. No surgery. Rest and rehab. No exact return date scheduled but not season threatening

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Well, I guess I was right on Thursday/Friday. Brown's injury is not serious. Should actually be back quite soon. So says the latest intel

Note to self: Radio source of mine who keeps feeding me false info...you're on my list