Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;843746]True, except with Rex, when it's late in the game, he makes mistake after mistake and it's been the knock on him his whole career.[/quote]

Like the 4th down TD pass against the Cardinals?
The knock on Grossman is that he plays ugly. But, he wins. Teammates like him. He is the opposite of Jeff George. Beautiful passer. As**ole who loses and whose teammates hate him.
QB is not a position you want to try to ruin confidence. Pull Grossman and then Beck looks over his shoulder at every incompletion or pick. So you pull him. Then Grossman is happy to have the job back but knows if he isn't perfect (no matter the team's record), he's on the bench again. So he plays to not look bad.
Where does it end? 9-7 and fans bitching that the team has no direction.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Has Rexy made some bad decisions, yes. However I really think Kyle Shanny needs to be questioned more about some of the late calls he is making. Can't tell if he wants to go for the kill so he gives up on the run or just gets bored with the run game. Dad needs to have a talk with him and if he doesn't improve he needs to send him to his room without supper.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;843823]I still can't figure out what Beck has done that makes so many people think he is going to make this team so much better, or that he is a better option than Rex. Is it his career 56% completion percentage, his 1-3 TD to INT ratio, or maybe it is his whopping 111 yards passing per game played. I know, I know...it is because he runs the bootleg better...Yep, better get him in there against Philly next game. CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Pfffff...[/quote]
~~~~~~~~~
Agreed. Putting Beck in isn't the magic bullet. Not sure why people think he is. We need to tighten up on our play calling late in games and play smarter. Towards the end of the game we seemed to zone out a bit offensively and let the Sheep back in. We can't do this when we play good teams otherwise we are toast.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rypper11;843969]Like the 4th down TD pass against the Cardinals?
The knock on Grossman is that he plays ugly. But, he wins. Teammates like him. He is the opposite of Jeff George. Beautiful passer. As**ole who loses and whose teammates hate him.
QB is not a position you want to try to ruin confidence. Pull Grossman and then Beck looks over his shoulder at every incompletion or pick. So you pull him. Then Grossman is happy to have the job back but knows if he isn't perfect (no matter the team's record), he's on the bench again. So he plays to not look bad.
Where does it end? 9-7 and fans bitching that the team has no direction.[/quote]

Agreed 100%.

No need to start f'ing with the team's head at 3-1.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rypper11;843969]Like the 4th down TD pass against the Cardinals?
The knock on Grossman is that he plays ugly. But, he wins. Teammates like him. He is the opposite of Jeff George. Beautiful passer. As**ole who loses and whose teammates hate him.
QB is not a position you want to try to ruin confidence. Pull Grossman and then Beck looks over his shoulder at every incompletion or pick. So you pull him. Then Grossman is happy to have the job back but knows if he isn't perfect (no matter the team's record), he's on the bench again. So he plays to not look bad.
Where does it end? 9-7 and fans bitching that the team has no direction.[/quote]

This is why I'm not in favor of a qb change.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;843919][url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/10/02/week.4/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a1]Tony Romo, Cowboys fall apart after brilliant first half vs. Detroit Lions - Don Banks - SI.com[/url]

Don Banks has his say in playing Beck[/quote]

It hought I saw a stat at the bottom of the screen that Romo was 15/15 for <200 yards. It's not how you start...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

There is a legitimate argument to be made for starting Beck, depending on what direction this offense is heading.

The positives w/ Rex are his short memory and willingness to sling the ball. If we're trying to become a big play offense it's worth sticking w/ him awhile longer. In game one seeing how Fred Davis lit up the open field and Moss, Armstrong and Gaffney looked to be in sync w/ Rex I thought we could definitely be a big play team. So yeah Rex throws a pick each game...hell Brees throws a pick just about every game, but then he leads the offense to the endzone and "erases" the INT.

After four games tho I would say we don't look like much of the big play offense, which means minimizing mistakes is absolutely critical. If this is really who we are and Beck can minimize mistakes then he's the better option at this point.

I'm def not fusbol smart enough to know the answer. Hopefully Mike and Kyle are :)

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=rypper11;843969]
Where does it end? 9-7 and fans bitching that the team has no direction.[/quote]
imo 9-7 would be they absolute best, lets smoke some crack case scenario for this team. i honestly think our W-L record this year would be the same with either beck or rex starting.

our D isnt going to play an absolute awful O line the 0-3 rams had heading into this game, our qb put up a putrid 49 qb rating with 149 yds passing on 31 attempts, our opponents arent going to commit 10 plus penalties . .. we barely beat an 0-3 rams who had a bad day for an 0-3 team . . . 7 sacks will be our season record, we should have feasted on this team and instead we survived. 3-1 is awesome, but that doesnt mean our team is performing awesome. 9-7 for this team is a pipe dream even sittin at 3-1 unless some serious things improve.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Our schedule sets up pretty nice. I normally don't get into looking too far ahead but I'd be surprised if we only go 6-6 the rest of the way.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Like Grossman's fade to back corner of the endzone...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;843823]I still can't figure out what Beck has done that makes so many people think he is going to make this team so much better [/quote]

By that logic we should have kept McNabb and never replaced him with Rex in the first place.

[quote]or that he is a better option than Rex. Is it his career 56% completion percentage, his 1-3 TD to INT ratio, or maybe it is his whopping 111 yards passing per game played. Is it his career 56% completion percentage, his 1-3 TD to INT ratio, or maybe it is his whopping 111 yards passing per game played. [/quote]

You mean the numbers he put up 5 years ago as a rookie on a terrible Miami team?

[quote]
I know, I know...it is because he runs the bootleg better...Yep, better get him in there against Philly next game. CHAMPIONSHIP!!![/quote]

You're dismissing the arguments relevant to the 2011 Redskins and their current offensive system.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Grossman better be thanking Torain for this win. Beck coming soon to a Redskins team near you! Count on it...

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

if you don't like rex's mistakes, why would you want a 30 year old rookie that's going to make even more mistakes?

makes no sense.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=That Guy;844110]if you don't like rex's mistakes, why would you want a 30 year old rookie that's going to make even more mistakes?

makes no sense.[/quote]

How do you know Beck would make more mistakes? You don't know.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-win-over-rams-should-have-been-easy-but-rex-grossman-makes-it-harder/2011/10/02/gIQAMOEUGL_story.html]Redskins&rsquo; win over Rams should have been easy, but Rex Grossman makes it harder - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Do yall remember when the Bears were having this same debate. All Lovie Smith would EVER say is "we are X and 2 with Rex as our starter" He completely ignored the fact that they didn't win games "because" of Rex, they won games "in spite" of Rex. He will do this to us all year long. You can't be a "game manager" if you randomly turn the ball over for no reason at all, and don't learn from your mistakes from week to week. I was on the Beck side of things from the beginning so I'm a little biased, but I have to say when Rex ran for that first down today, all I could think about was how he was holding the ball in one hand like he was pulling a shopping cart. The same exact thing that cost us a fumble last week. How can he not cover the damn ball?!? How can he still be making the same mistakes from a week ago?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=zeesson;844161]Do yall remember when the Bears were having this same debate. All Lovie Smith would EVER say is "we are X and 2 with Rex as our starter" He completely ignored the fact that they didn't win games "because" of Rex, they won games "in spite" of Rex. He will do this to us all year long. You can't be a "game manager" if you randomly turn the ball over for no reason at all, and don't learn from your mistakes from week to week. I was on the Beck side of things from the beginning so I'm a little biased, but I have to say when Rex ran for that first down today, all I could think about was how he was holding the ball in one hand like he was pulling a shopping cart. The same exact thing that cost us a fumble last week. How can he not cover the damn ball?!? How can he still be making the same mistakes from a week ago?[/quote]

I really like this post, noob. :food-smil

I'm hoping that, once again, Mike see's something that I can't.

Right now though, Rex looks like he is going downhill, i.e. returning to his old ways.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I wonder if the Cowboys fans are having this same discussion after their QB actually cost them their game?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

switching the QB isn't something we should do at all. Yes we are 3-1 for starters, two of those wins directly related to Rex's play. Putting the dagger in the Giants when we normally would have gone 3 and out and gave up a game tying score. the 4th down beautiful throw to Moss, which a QB has to have the stones to even attempt that throw trailing late in the 4th quarter. Rex had a bad outing, every QB has a bad outing. The 4th quarter against the Cowboys was a little rough, but our offense as a whole had zero rhythm. Everyone points to the picks, but of the last 4 or 5, yesterdays to the LB was the only one I can remember that was just something he shouldn't have thrown. I can count 2 or 3 that went off the receivers hands, Moss fell down on one, and Armstrong had his arm held down when the one went off his hand. So lets not jump all over Rex. I think as a whole he has done quite well. Lets not forget the Giants, Cowboys have had pretty good defenses as well as Arizona's heavy pressure D.

There are really good things that came out of yesterdays game, great pass protection, and the re-emergence of Ryan Torain. It just looked like a totally different running game with him in the there.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I see your point 56. But I can't help the fact that Grossman makes me nervous.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=GoSkins!;844165]I wonder if the Cowboys fans are having this same discussion after their QB actually cost them their game?[/quote]


Yeah, last week it was Romo is god, Romo the warrior, Romo the savior blah blah blah...I actually thought I was going to throw up with all the talk before the SKins game monday night... Lets see that is 2 games that he has single handily lost for the Cowboys.. Wonder if the Savior, God, Warrior crap is still being discussed this morning. Or do they have the "lets start Kitna thread!"

[QUOTE=mooby;843637]For once I agree with Alvin Walton.

I don't understand why people are suprised at Grossman's style of play so far. In the words of Jamie Dukes, he is what he is. You're gonna get some good, you're gonna get some bad. Right now Grossman has gotten us to 3-1. As long as we win games I don't see why he needs to be benched.[/QUOTE]

This. Start Beck if we lose 3 to 4 games in a row. If not, ride it out.

Although Grossman has had his issues he has been starting for 4 weeks. Beck would be relatively fresh. I feel we would be taking a step backwards in the middle of the season to get him up to speed, bye week or not.

[QUOTE=zeesson;844170]I see your point 56. But I can't help the fact that Grossman makes me nervous.[/QUOTE]

As I was telling another poster, QB decisions (or K) aren't made because of your comfort level.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Rex is pretty short and I don't think he sees around the rushers, or even his own linemen very well. He'll make throws where you go, how the flying F did you not see the LB sitting right there square in the throwing lane??

There has been more than one occasion when Beck's mobility would have come in handy, too. Rex is what he is, decent passer when protected, and turnover prone when pressured. We'll start losing games because of him if we're not careful.

Not that Beck's really the answer, neither of them are the answer. So whatever, make the switch, don't make the switch, either way. If we're going to win, it won't be because of our QB.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;844180]Rex is pretty short and I don't think he sees around the rushers, or even his own linemen very well. He'll make throws where you go, how the flying F did you not see the LB sitting right there square in the throwing lane??

There has been more than one occasion when Beck's mobility would have come in handy, too. Rex is what he is, decent passer when protected, and turnover prone when pressured. We'll start losing games because of him if we're not careful.

Not that Beck's really the answer, neither of them are the answer. So whatever, make the switch, don't make the switch, either way[B]. If we're going to win, it won't be because of our QB.[/quote][/B]

[B]I disagree. Beck has the ability to makes plays that can win you a game. Not saying he's the answer either but we know Grossman isn't. [/B]

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I think we give Grossman a few more games to see if this is just a bad string of games or if this is really the best he can do.

He earned the starting job. Let him "earn" his removal from that job, IF that ever happens. He's definitely capable of losing the job, but let's give him some more games. Maybe four or six more games.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;844183][/B]

[B]I disagree. Beck has the ability to makes plays that can win you a game. Not saying he's the answer either but we know Grossman isn't. [/B][/quote]

How exactly do you know this since the minute amount of regular season starts Beck has shows the opposite. If Beck made plays that win games he wouldnt be a career back-up.

IMO, a lot of Rex's problems stem from him being too short. After watching him so far this season it just seems to me that he struggles to see over the line and that lack of vision creates his INT problems.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Beck had his opportunity to show what he has in two games in the preseason. He looked pretty average in one game and looked somewhat average against the Bucs 2nd stringers in the last game of the preseason. This probably wasn't fair to him given his injury, but sh*t happens. If Beck was a rookie QB or younger, I'd be all for starting him sometime this season if Rex causes us to lose more games. But he isn't, he's just another journeyman QB that won't be the future of any team (neither will be Rex by the way).

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Neither Rex or Beck are the long term answers here anyway. Might as well ride Rex as long as we're winning. Makes no sense to make a change right now.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;844208]Neither Rex or Beck are the long term answers here anyway. Might as well ride Rex as long as we're winning. Makes no sense to make a change right now.[/quote]


Absolutely.. Stay with Rex. I hate when this QB controversy stuff comes up. Rex knows this offense a whole of a lot better than Beck. Like I have said before, dude has done pretty decent this season. The last quarter in Dallas, and this game weren't so hot. But if Moss catches the one 3rd down ball that is a big gain, he cuts inside and may have taken it to the house there wasn't anyone behind the corner. Hightower doesn't drop the drive killer, who knows what happens. Instead you get a pick and a punt. THe two home games are a direct result of Rex (in my opinion) He made a nice drive to put the final TD up against the Giants, and that HUGE throw on 4th down against Arizona. SO people need to give it a rest.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I feel that I greatly underestimated Anthony Armstrong. Hopefully he'll return in a couple of weeks and stretch this offense out a bit. I think maybe not having Young is hurting as well.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

T(Turnover)-Rex or Sexy Rexy, you never know which one will show up on Sunday. Sometimes they both show up on the same day. I think its too early to replace Rex. The play calling has to be better. The coaches need to realize this is a running team and call the game accordingly.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

Wrecks sux. Beck is barf. It's time to start Good 'Ole Rockytop Jon Crompton!

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

If Rex's career history tells us anything, he'll come out with a MONSTER game vs Philly.

He's good-bad-good-bad...

He's been bad for two games, he's due to bust out again.

Look out Eagles.


I don't think anyone will complain if history repeats itself.

[IMG]http://frankthetank.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/rex-grossman-super-bowl-media-day.jpg[/IMG]


You'd all be thrilled just to make the Super Bowl, even if we lose. We've been suffering for a long time.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;844254]If Rex's career history tells us anything, he'll come out with a MONSTER game vs Philly.

He's good-bad-good-bad...

He's been bad for two games, he's due to bust out again.

Look out Eagles.


I don't think anyone will complain if history repeats itself.

[IMG]http://frankthetank.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/rex-grossman-super-bowl-media-day.jpg[/IMG]


You'd all be thrilled just to make the Super Bowl, even if we lose. We've been suffering for a long time.[/quote]

Not to make fun of Rex, but that picture has derp written all over it.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

"Talking QB change when 3 and 1: dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb!"

[IMG]http://www.i4m.com/think/jpeg/south_park_translation.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=hooskins;844256]"Talking QB change when 3 and 1: dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb!"

[IMG]http://www.i4m.com/think/jpeg/south_park_translation.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

I agree. But didn't Shanny bench Plummer for Cutler when the Broncos were 7-4?

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Lotus;844273]I agree. But didn't Shanny bench Plummer for Cutler when the Broncos were 7-4?[/quote]

Yeah but let's not confuse Beck with a talented first round pick waiting in the wings.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;844180]Rex is pretty short and I don't think he sees around the rushers, or even his own linemen very well. He'll make throws where you go, how the flying F did you not see the LB sitting right there square in the throwing lane??

There has been more than one occasion when Beck's mobility would have come in handy, too. Rex is what he is, decent passer when protected, and turnover prone when pressured. We'll start losing games because of him if we're not careful.

Not that Beck's really the answer, neither of them are the answer. So whatever, make the switch, don't make the switch, either way. If we're going to win, it won't be because of our QB.[/quote]

That's been Grossman's excuse two weeks in a row....I didn't see the defender. Well, he gets paid to see, if he can't see he shouldn't be playing. We won yesterday despite his inability to see, thanks to a strong defensive effort and an inept opponent. I agree we will lose games as a result of his mistakes against more formidable opponents if these mistakes are allowed to continue.

Re: Start John Beck Madness Thread
 

I don't think his height played into the INT.

Coming off the play action I think he was locked into where he wanted to go, he perhaps caught a glimpse of Laurinaitis getting sucked in, but he underestimated his ability to recover and get back into coverage.

When you see the play a few times you can appreciate it was a heck of a play by Laurinaitis, first to hustle back but also to catch that ball that was right in his face when he turned to look.

Ill advised decision by Grossman, but on 2nd look also a heck of a play by Laurinaitis.