Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

There not fools.. There is a lot more that goes into a matchup then stats. Yeah stats can tell a little something, but the way Beck brings a different element to this team, and how electric the offense was looking with him in there it's gotta be Beck. Shanny's system is BUILT around the zone blocking, and bootlegs from the QB's. We have two BEAST TE's who will catch a lot of balls and make more yards out of the play this year, and it'll be Beck rolling out and throwing them these balls.

Last week the Beck haters all said he couldn't throw it down field with accuracy.. That throw to Armstrong looked pretty accurate to me.

Plummer
Elway
Even Mcnabb

Shanny wants a QB that can create a bigger pocket from the play action, and he gets that in Beck.

Beck will be the man, and the way he studies and wants to be better.. I think he's going to surprise A LOT of people this year.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I'm for Beck, but it's a toss-up. Rexy has had his moments, but his history scares me with the INTs. Probably helping Beck that he has less history. But he looks a good fit for that patented Mike Shanny bootleg. If the running game works as it should, the QB is all about the boot. And Rex is not exactly fleet of foot. But he can ball. People forget everything but the SB loss--he did get Chicago there. If Beck stumbles, then will go with Rex. Neither is the long-term solution, barring a late career blooming ala Gannon or someone.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Bucket;827617]There not fools.. There is a lot more that goes into a matchup then stats. Yeah stats can tell a little something, but the way Beck brings a different element to this team, and how electric the offense was looking with him in there it's gotta be Beck. Shanny's system is BUILT around the zone blocking, and bootlegs from the QB's. We have two BEAST TE's who will catch a lot of balls and make more yards out of the play this year, and it'll be Beck rolling out and throwing them these balls.

Last week the Beck haters all said he couldn't throw it down field with accuracy.. That throw to Armstrong looked pretty accurate to me.

Plummer
Elway
Even Mcnabb

Shanny wants a QB that can create a bigger pocket from the play action, and he gets that in Beck.

Beck will be the man, and the way he studies and wants to be better.. I think he's going to surprise A LOT of people this year.[/quote]

Nice post.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Mark Schlereth is a fool, really everyone on ESPN is a fool. They just eat their words, then form completely different opinions and act like that was their thinking all along. Did you not see how accurate Grossman is? What game do you people watch? Grossman stands in the face of pressure and delivers. He is the long term answer as in the next 5 years.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Bucket;827617]There not fools.. There is a lot more that goes into a matchup then stats. Yeah stats can tell a little something, but the way Beck brings a different element to this team, and how electric the offense was looking with him in there it's gotta be Beck. Shanny's system is BUILT around the zone blocking, and bootlegs from the QB's. We have two BEAST TE's who will catch a lot of balls and make more yards out of the play this year, and it'll be Beck rolling out and throwing them these balls.

Last week the Beck haters all said he couldn't throw it down field with accuracy.. That throw to Armstrong looked pretty accurate to me.

Plummer
Elway
Even Mcnabb

Shanny wants a QB that can create a bigger pocket from the play action, and he gets that in Beck.

Beck will be the man, and the way he studies and wants to be better.. I think he's going to surprise A LOT of people this year.[/quote]

I think Beck still really struggles to sell the play action, Grossman is much better in that regard.

Beck does offer an element of mobility that Grossman doesn't quite have.

And, I won't speak for others, but frankly I'm getting tired of being accused on hating (hatting) on ability to throw a down field pass. When all I said was he hadn't had the opportunity to do so against the Colts and I wanted to see him throw one. Because I wanted to do see what he could do.

I think it's pretty even but the edge probably goes to Beck. Still it's comforting, I'm sure, for Kyle and Mike to know they could go to Rex in a pinch and he can get the job done.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Bucket;827617]There not fools.. There is a lot more that goes into a matchup then stats. Yeah stats can tell a little something, but the way Beck brings a different element to this team, and how electric the offense was looking with him in there it's gotta be Beck. Shanny's system is BUILT around the zone blocking, and bootlegs from the QB's. We have two BEAST TE's who will catch a lot of balls and make more yards out of the play this year, and it'll be Beck rolling out and throwing them these balls.

Last week the Beck haters all said he couldn't throw it down field with accuracy.. That throw to Armstrong looked pretty accurate to me.

Plummer
Elway
Even Mcnabb

Shanny wants a QB that can create a bigger pocket from the play action, and he gets that in Beck.

Beck will be the man, and the way he studies and wants to be better.. I think he's going to surprise A LOT of people this year.[/quote]

Also, I remember Gaffney making comments about him being surprised at the high energy Beck exuded before and during the Colts game. Beck might be one of those gamer type QBs.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;827625]I think Beck still really struggles to sell the play action, Grossman is much better in that regard.

Beck does offer an element of mobility that Grossman doesn't quite have.

And, I won't speak for others, but frankly I'm getting tired of being accused on hating (hatting) on ability to throw a down field pass. When all I said was he hadn't had the opportunity to do so against the Colts and I wanted to see him throw one. Because I wanted to do see what he could do.

I think it's pretty even but the edge probably goes to Beck. Still it's comforting, I'm sure, for Kyle and Mike to know they could go to Rex in a pinch and he can get the job done.[/quote]

Beck showed me off with a couple of deep throws tonight, I was one of those complaining about his arm. In the end, I think we have a good starter/backup combination in these two guys.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;827625]I think Beck still really struggles to sell the play action, Grossman is much better in that regard.

Beck does offer an element of mobility that Grossman doesn't quite have.

And, I won't speak for others, but frankly I'm getting tired of being accused on hating (hatting) on ability to throw a down field pass. When all I said was he hadn't had the opportunity to do so against the Colts and I wanted to see him throw one. Because I wanted to do see what he could do.

[B]I think it's pretty even but the edge probably goes to Beck. Still it's comforting, I'm sure, for Kyle and Mike to know they could go to Rex in a pinch and he can get the job done.[/B][/quote]

This.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;827625]I think Beck still really struggles to sell the play action, Grossman is much better in that regard.

Beck does offer an element of mobility that Grossman doesn't quite have.

And, I won't speak for others, but frankly I'm getting tired of being accused on hating (hatting) on ability to throw a down field pass. When all I said was he hadn't had the opportunity to do so against the Colts and I wanted to see him throw one. Because I wanted to do see what he could do.

I think it's pretty even but the edge probably goes to Beck. Still it's comforting, I'm sure, for Kyle and Mike to know they could go to Rex in a pinch and he can get the job done.[/quote]

Don't take it personal. I don't think I ever said, quote:

"Smootsmack is hating on Becks arm strength"

I did see a lot of posts about how Beck couldn't get the ball downfield. I just watched the Stallworth play again, and if Stallworth keeps running, he's in way better position to catch that football. He slowed down for 2 steps I guess thinking Beck couldn't get it there. So I apologise if you took my comments personal Smoot. I didn't think you took all thousands of the Warpaths members comments as your own. Next time I'll make sure to exclude you from any comments made as a whole.:goodjob:

As for him not selling the play action fake.. When you don't have a lineman in your face then I think the PA was sold pretty well. I think both QB's are pretty exceptional at selling the PA at this point and being in the system for this long. It also helps to sell the PA when you have a guy like Hightower taking it 40+ yards in two straight games.

Option A: Take the slower Mobile QB in your rollout style offense, but obtain a better drop back passer
Option B: Take the quicker Mobile QB in your rollout style offense, and develop him better in drop back passing while he's still fresh and not on the last leg of his career.

Personally if Beck does pan out and becomes a potential franchise QB for the next 5 years. How much upside does that bring the the Skins and the future with all the young pieces in place?

TO much upside to Beck, to negate that he hasn't developed fully against the rush, and I believe that Austin makes the team because Beck has serious Chemistry with this young speedster with pillow hands.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I mean why wouldn't you be talking about me? Who else is worth talking about??

In all seriousness though, perhaps I worded it wrong. My only point was that I think a lot of us said let's see what he can do and that was turned into "he can't do it"

I'm happy that Beck has had a solid camp. That said, I've always been a Grossman fan and I'm kind of pulling for him...though I'm not a loon like jonny5

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;827646]I mean why wouldn't you be talking about me? Who else is worth talking about??

In all seriousness though, perhaps I worded it wrong. My only point was that I think a lot of us said let's see what he can do and that was turned into "he can't do it"

I'm happy that Beck has had a solid camp. [B]That said, I've always been a Grossman fan and I'm kind of pulling for him...though I'm not a loon like jonny5[/B][/quote]

Are we even watching the same game?! Beck looked like a concussed JaMarcus Russell out there, and Grossman looked like Peyton Manning circa 2004! It's no contest!

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=mooby;827650]Are we even watching the same game?! Beck looked like a concussed JaMarcus Russell out there, and Grossman looked like Peyton Manning circa 2004! It's no contest![/quote]

Grossman stiffed armed Hurricane Irene with his left hand as he threw that 21 yard TD pass (with his eyes closed) to Santana Moss, then placed a call to Kaddafi convincing him to surrender peacefully while the extra point was being kicked.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;827654]Grossman stiffed armed Hurricane Irene with his left hand as he threw that 21 yard TD pass (with his eyes closed) to Santana Moss, then placed a call to Kaddafi convincing him to surrender peacefully while the extra point was being kicked.[/quote]

:laughing- And all that after single-handedly storming Osama Bin Laden's compound and killing him and his men bare handed. It's no contest.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

When he pats you on the back, you put it on your resume'
Both sides of his pillow are always cool

John Beck doesn't always win the starting QB position, but when he does. He prefers the Redskins

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I have a better idea of whats to come, that's for sure by reading all of your posts. Rex having problems with turnovers shouldn't be that big of a deal. He's only started 34 games in his career and he's led his team to a super bowl appearance. If the Bears had competent offensive coaches Rex would still be there. To take that much criticism early in his career was ridiculous; Rex is highly accurate and adept at making quick decisions with the football-perfect.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Bucket;827663]When he pats you on the back, you put it on your resume'
Both sides of his pillow are always cool

[B]John Beck doesn't always win the starting QB position, but when he does. He prefers the Redskins[/B][/quote]

Grossman has a Tattoo that says Beck

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=jonny5dicky;827664]I have a better idea of whats to come, that's for sure by reading all of your posts. Rex having problems with turnovers shouldn't be that big of a deal. He's only started 34 games in his career and he's led his team to a super bowl appearance. If the Bears had competent offensive coaches Rex would still be there. To take that much criticism early in his career was ridiculous; Rex is highly accurate and adept at making quick decisions with the football-perfect.[/quote]

Why are you so damn adamant about this??!? What do you know that the rest of the world doesn't.

Would you consider Mike and Kyle Shanahan to be "competent offensive coaches"? If so then if they ultimately decide to go with Beck wouldn't you say that they know a bit more than you do?

Answer these questions before you go posting the same crap again.

p.s. For what it's worth, I'm not a Grossman hater. I quite like him but I don't see what reason you have to be getting so worked up.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=jonny5dicky;827664][B]I have a better idea of whats to come, that's for sure by reading all of your posts.[/B] Rex having problems with turnovers shouldn't be that big of a deal. He's only started 34 games in his career and he's led his team to a super bowl appearance. If the Bears had competent offensive coaches Rex would still be there. To take that much criticism early in his career was ridiculous; Rex is highly accurate and adept at making quick decisions with the football-perfect.[/quote]

What does that mean?

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

You obviously need to be constantly reminded of Grossman's credentials as where Beck doesn't have any. It's like the other posters have stated, Grossman is comfortable delivering the ball from the pocket and Beck is much more effective rolling outside of the pocket to make throws. So, who in the hell do you think is going to start? Probably the quarterback that can play in the pocket like an NFL quarterback. Gaffney is a receiver on this team anyway, that already is fate enough to make Grossman the quarterback. I think I've made it clear that I think Rex isn't just a stopgap quarterback but the leader of this offense.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Gaffney is proof that Grossman is the starter? Because they played together 10 year ago in college?

So you're completely convinced that Rex is the best QB and Beck isn't even worth of any shot at all? Because Rex would have had a much better career if only he had been given more opportunities...yet Beck just plain sucked?

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I just wish other Redskins fans wouldn't be naive enough to put their hopes behind a quarterback that's thrown 1 touchdown pass in 4 seasons to a quarterback that's led a team to a super bowl. It's just stupid, I'm tired of hearing all this Beck praise but you all will begin to understand how fortunate the Redskins are to have Rex Grossman as their quarterback. Probably will be one of the greatest turnaround stories in NFL history.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Beck hasn't even won a game in the NFL yet, it's time to go to bed.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Jonny you are obviously delusional and totally fanboi's by Grossman at the moment. You said.. Quote:

"It's like the other posters have stated, Grossman is comfortable delivering the ball from the pocket and Beck is much more effective rolling outside of the pocket to make throws. So, who in the hell do you think is going to start?"

Well if we were the NE Patriots, or the Arizona Cardinals I would say Rex Grossman would start, BUT....

Since we are the Washington Redskins, and the whole offense is developed around the stretch run, and play action rollout that requires a mobile QB.. Then who do you tihnk the QB should be?

You know.. Brady didn't have an NFL TD either when he came in, and neither did Romo.. Do I need to remind you about Rich Gannon, or Brad Johnson, or even Kurt Warner 2.0?

It's all about systems and what QB best fits your system and is willing to perform and wants to perform at a high level. Beck has more upside and is the better fit for this offense. So you are either trying to troll right now, or you really do believe some of the rediculous comments coming from your posts.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I never said it was proof Grossman was going to be quarterback because Gaffney is on the team, but it seems very likely they'll be connecting for touchdown passes this season. You probably aren't familiar with what great chemistry they had at Florida.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

You can't do bootlegs if you can't run the football. Most of the time you have to set up the run with the pass, and Rex Grossman gets the defense on its heals with the fear of his deep ball-He doesn't need a running start to heave it downfield, lol.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Well your unflinching passion for Rex I suppose is mildly admirable...and disturbing. But is that all you plan to contribute to this board?

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=jonny5dicky;827674]You can't do bootlegs if you can't run the football. Most of the time you have to set up the run with the pass, and Rex Grossman gets the defense on its heals with the fear of his deep ball-He doesn't need a running start to heave it downfield, lol.[/quote]


Do you even realize how the stretch run works? The backside defensive end/LB has to crash down to make a play backside on the running back, although the stretch allows the back to keep pace with the play and chunk up yards or cut it back for a big play potential, and so on.

The bootleg off of the stretch keeps the DE/LB honest so that he cant cheat one way or another. Shanahan has been doing this for years, and making RB's into superstars because of it. How many times have you seen the run game "not" work this year for us so far, or even in the history of the Shanahan system?

if the run game isn't working then the bootleg percentage actually is a bit higher. The stretch run/bootleg is not your traditional style play action play. That is why it's run 5-7 times a game depending on it's success on an average Redskins game.

This is all saying the offensive line is mobile enough and not allowing the front side dline break gaps, but this is the NFL and things happen. Yes, there are traditional drop back pass plays in this offensive scheme that realtes it to a "west coast" style. Which tonight.. Beck looked fluid in dropping back and firing on que to his targets, in which JAWS, and Gruden both commented that he looks way more fluent then Grossman.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

It's funny how some people refuse to see this competition as pretty much even. As always, people have a hard time finding a middle ground. Either people are ALL for Beck or ALL for Grossman, with no room to have an opinion that both are doing well and that the team would be fine with either of them at QB. Honestly, this right now this a better situation than having to settle for a QB (Seattle) or putting all of your hopes on an unproven rookie because that is your only option (Bengals). While personally I would give the nod to Grossman, I think in the end we will have a pretty good QB and a very reliable backup. Heck, we might even build up enough value in one QB and use them as trade bait next year (like the Iggles and Kolb).

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;827677]It's funny how some people refuse to see this competition as pretty much even. As always, people have a hard time finding a middle ground. Either people are ALL for Beck or ALL for Grossman, with no room to have an opinion that both are doing well and that the team would be fine with either of them at QB. Honestly, this right now this a better situation than having to settle for a QB (Seattle) or putting all of your hopes on an unproven rookie because that is your only option (Bengals). While personally I would give the nod to Grossman, I think in the end we will have a pretty good QB and a very reliable backup. Heck, we might even build up enough value in one QB and use them as trade bait next year (like the Iggles and Kolb).[/quote]

After 10 years of play I don't think anyone would put a lot of trade value into a QB that has been a roller coaster for all of his career even till this day. Like I said, I am confident with who ever the starter is as I believe in what Shanahan is doing in Washington, but if I was to pick. I would go with John "Burgundy and Gold" Beck.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Honestly I'm worried about Beck and what he is going to see from the giants d week one if he starts.... its preseason .. vanilla defenses and not so many different looks.. blitzing yes but combo.coverages and disguises are more rare... Beck is uncomfortable looking with pressure, throws quick low passes and panics, Rex's experience is what really edged it for ne ... if it doesn't work out maybe Beck plays better... Rex isn't as mobile, but he still is mobile enuff to run a bootleg....... I would feel more comfortable with Rex, but both are playing well for us right now ..

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I really don't care who starts as long as they win, but Grossman no more LED the Bears to a Super Bowl than Dilfer did the Ravens. He had some good games but he had some pretty bad ones too. Chicago's defense was pretty damn good.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=jonny5dicky;827670]I just wish other Redskins fans wouldn't be naive enough to put their hopes behind a quarterback that's thrown 1 touchdown pass in 4 seasons to a quarterback that's led a team to a super bowl. It's just stupid, I'm tired of hearing all this Beck praise but [B]you all will begin to understand how fortunate the Redskins are to have Rex Grossman as their quarterback. Probably will be one of the greatest turnaround stories in NFL history.[/B][/quote]

I am convinced that jonny5dicky is in fact none other than Sexy Rexy himself.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Thru the first 3 PS games here are the facts (per my count from the NFL site play by play stats) and results for each QB and their time leading the team!

Redskins at Ravens:
Grossman: First 3 drives stalled and had to punt, Grossman's 4th drive during last 2 minutes of half results in a TD pass to Moss.

Beck: First drive - 3 plays = TD, 2nd drive stalled - punted, 3rd drive one pass for Stallworth INT, 4th drive resulted in TD pass to T. Austin.

Redskins at Colts:
Beck: Led 5 possessions (the last one being 5o second to end the first half) resulting in 1 TD and 3 field goals.

Grossman: Led 4 possessions in second half resulting in 1 INT and no points.

Steelers at Redskins:
Grossman: Led 5 possessions resulting in 1 passing TD and 2 missed field goals

Beck: held out no stats!

Clemons: Led 6 possessions resulting in 3 field goals.

*****************************************************
By my count:

Grossman has started 13 drives this PS resulting in 2 passing TDs and 2 missed FG for a total of 14 points.

Beck has started 9 drives this PS resulting in 2 running TDs, 1 passing TD, and 3 FGs for a total of 30 points.

Clemons has produced 3 FGs in 1 game and nothing in the other 2 for 9 points.

The QB's job is to lead the team to score points. One can claim this or that about Grossman or Beck such as Grossman stands in the pocket while Beck is flushed but the way I see it Beck has been asked to play two totally different games. Against the Colts he was asked to dink and dunk and roll out and take that which the Colt defense gave him .... SMART imvho! While in the Ravens game he was allowed to open it up and go down field and BTW he also was not flushed, standing in and delivering passes with people in his face and around his feet.

Grossmans longest completed pass went for 36 yards while Beck's longest pass was for 33, what weak arm?

At this point I'll take Beck hands down, going by the points produced!

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=gafinfan;827693]Thru the first 3 PS games here are the facts (per my count from the NFL site play by play stats) and results for each QB and their time leading the team!

Redskins at Ravens:
Grossman: First 3 drives stalled and had to punt, Grossman's 4th drive during last 2 minutes of half results in a TD pass to Moss.

Beck: First drive - 3 plays = TD, 2nd drive stalled - punted, 3rd drive one pass for Stallworth INT, 4th drive resulted in TD pass to T. Austin.

Redskins at Colts:
Beck: Led 5 possessions (the last one being 5o second to end the first half) resulting in 1 TD and 3 field goals.

Grossman: Led 4 possessions in second half resulting in 1 INT and no points.

Steelers at Redskins:
Grossman: Led 5 possessions resulting in 1 passing TD and 2 missed field goals

Beck: held out no stats!

Clemons: Led 6 possessions resulting in 3 field goals.

*****************************************************
By my count:

Grossman has started 13 drives this PS resulting in 2 passing TDs and 2 missed FG for a total of 14 points.

Beck has started 9 drives this PS resulting in 2 running TDs, 1 passing TD, and 3 FGs for a total of 30 points.

Clemons has produced 3 FGs in 1 game and nothing in the other 2 for 9 points.

The QB's job is to lead the team to score points. One can claim this or that about Grossman or Beck such as Grossman stands in the pocket while Beck is flushed but the way I see it Beck has been asked to play two totally different games. Against the Colts he was asked to dink and dunk and roll out and take that which the Colt defense gave him .... SMART imvho! While in the Ravens game he was allowed to open it up and go down field and BTW he also was not flushed, standing in and delivering passes with people in his face and around his feet.

Grossmans longest completed pass went for 36 yards while Beck's longest pass was for 33, what weak arm?

At this point I'll take Beck hands down, going by the points produced![/quote]

Even if you give Rex the missed field goals to make it even it is still 30-20 Beck; the QB still got them the opportunity at that point. Pretty nice post. Good way to seperate QBs

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Reading Jonny5 posts is like reading an infomercial for Rexy. except entertaining as hell

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I think these guys are pretty even (accuracy, arm strength, system knowledge) but in the end I like Rex's experience. While he may not have lead Chicago to the SB, he was there are played in that and other big playoff games. You cant get that experience watching film.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=irish;827696]I think these guys are pretty even (accuracy, arm strength, system knowledge) but in the end I like Rex's experience. While he may not have lead Chicago to the SB, he was there are played in that and other big playoff games. You cant get that experience watching film.[/quote]

But you can't discount Becks mobility. That's huge.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

[quote=Chico23231;827695]Reading Jonny5 posts is like reading an infomercial for Rexy. except entertaining as hell[/quote]

Like a car wreck.
Except the car's are full of circus clowns.

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

Beck is more athletic and can run that's a big factor

Re: Who do you want to start at QB?
 

I'm with those who see the competition as essentially even. That said, I think Beck offers greater mobility and has greater potential upside. Rex is not going to get much better; Beck might. So save a place for me on the Beck bandwagon.