Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;785507]Sorry to pick on you man, cause it's not personal BUT this is an asinine way of thinking. There's no such roster in the NFL made up of 'low profile good players who are motivated' or 'young hungry players trying to prove themselves'. That's fine for roster spots 43-53 but if you're talking about players who are going to contribute week in and week out, every single Sunday you need playmakers, some are going to cost money and some are going to be high profile. Using your logic to exclude a 24 year old Sydney Rice (or those of his ilk) is as irresponsible as going out and trying to sign anyone and everyone just because ESPN says they are valuable.

We have a huge need for a young, big, athletic WR. Rice is 6-4, has great speed, history of success and is 24. If he isn't the #1 free agent on our board that's a huge failure by our front office.[/quote]

Some redskins fans never learn.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

Luckily we don't need to trade away picks for him.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

Sorry paintrain, but this is the same way of thinking that has gotten the redskins to this point. There are no shortcuts in the NFL. Throwing money at free agents and trading away draft picks are 2 shortcuts that haven't worked for the redskins for the past decade. It's time to go the other direction.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

I agree with Paintrain. We need to address the WR position in free agency. Sidney Rice would be a perfect acquisition. Historically, the Redskins have been average at best when it comes to drafting receivers high. Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs, Rob Gardener, Devin Thomas and Malcom Kelley. All high draft picks with zero pro-bowls between them. I'm not saying all of those guys were bad players, they just failed to be true number one receivers due to a number of reasons including lingering injuries (Westbrook).

Free agent receivers have been our best receivers over the years. Gary Clark, Henry Ellard, Lavernius Coles, Santana Moss, all of them were pro-bowl receivers and have vastly out-performed our high draft picks. The only draft picks we had that were elite WR's were Charlie Brown, Ricky Sanders and Art Monk. So it would be unwise to exclude young proven free agent WR's. The NFL is a passing league, so it's imperative that we surround our QB with the best weapons possible. Sidney Rice and Jason Jones would improve the offense immensely. We would definitely be a better offense with them than without.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

If the Ravens release McGahee I think we leave him be- He would not be starting caliber however, would that be enough competition for Torrain?

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

^ I don't believe McGahee fits in Shanahan's system.. I could see Bengals going after McGahee, assuming if they don't resign Benson.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e694b6/article/ravens-likely-to-cut-ties-with-mcgahee-and-his-6m-2011-salary?module=HP_headlines]NFL.com news: Ravens likely to cut ties with McGahee and his $6M 2011 salary[/url]

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

Avoiding bigger name free agents just because we've swung and missed in the past just doesn't make sense.

Yes, it makes sure we don't miss big (Archuleta), but we also miss out on big contributors (Fletcher).

If the right player comes along at a position you need, you don't ignore them simply because it *might* not work out.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

If we can get rice Im all in.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

Just in: panthers will not Tag Deangelo Williams

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785565]Just in: panthers will not Tag Deangelo Williams[/quote]

Health issues?

They'll prob tag Kalil.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=warriorzpath;785521]Sorry paintrain, but this is the same way of thinking that has gotten the redskins to this point. There are no shortcuts in the NFL. Throwing money at free agents and trading away draft picks are 2 shortcuts that haven't worked for the redskins for the past decade. It's time to go the other direction.[/quote]

So then educate me. Show me a winning team whose roster is primarily comprised of 'low profile good players who are motivated' or 'young hungry players' that eschews free agency and doesn't add talented players by all means (draft, trade, free agency).

The Packers are largely homegrown, right? Their 5 best players (Rodgers, Woodson, Jennings, Raji, Matthews) are all 'high profile' first round (with the exception of Jennings) players. They had role players step up for injured starters but now we're talking about depth, not primary playmakers. Roster spots 42-53, I completely agree, give me youth, give me hunger, give me athleticism but for my first 22, give me talented playmakers and I'll kill the mess out of your young, hungry, low profile team.

For the record, I am completely against trading any of our picks this year and I hope they trade down from 10 to acquire additional picks. However, head in the sand thinking of 'it hasn't worked before so it won't work now' isn't close to the solution either.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Ruhskins;785580]Health issues?

They'll prob tag Kalil.[/quote]

I think it's more of stewart being the guy now and they also have a good young RB with him.

I'd like williams but Id rather go WR and DL first. Of course OL also

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785587]I think it's more of stewart being the guy now and they also have a good young RB with him.
[/quote]

Mike Goodson I think his name is. I had him on multiple fantasy teams.


Williams is more injury-prone than Portis at this point. I'd keep CP in a limited role, 3rd-down RB, blocking back on passing plays over him. Very limited carries but we need his blocking.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785587]I think it's more of stewart being the guy now and they also have a good young RB with him.

I'd like williams but Id rather go WR and DL first. Of course OL also[/quote]

Actually, it is better for them to use the tag on Kalil, a 25 year-old two-time Pro Bowl center is a better investment than a guy that was on IR.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

And Carolina tags Kalil

Adam Schefter
Carolina is placing its franchise tag on C Ryan Kalil.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Ruhskins;785604]And Carolina tags Kalil

Adam Schefter
Carolina is placing its franchise tag on C Ryan Kalil.[/quote]

Sucks but not unexpected.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;785586]So then educate me. Show me a winning team whose roster is primarily comprised of 'low profile good players who are motivated' or 'young hungry players' that eschews free agency and doesn't add talented players by all means (draft, trade, free agency).

The Packers are largely homegrown, right? Their 5 best players (Rodgers, Woodson, Jennings, Raji, Matthews) are all 'high profile' first round (with the exception of Jennings) players. They had role players step up for injured starters but now we're talking about depth, not primary playmakers. Roster spots 42-53, I completely agree, give me youth, give me hunger, give me athleticism but for my first 22, give me talented playmakers and I'll kill the mess out of your young, hungry, low profile team.

For the record, I am completely against trading any of our picks this year and I hope they trade down from 10 to acquire additional picks. However, head in the sand thinking of 'it hasn't worked before so it won't work now' isn't close to the solution either.[/quote]

OK, let's get straight what we're talking about. We're talking about deciding to pick up yet another high profile free agent, not anything else.

And regardless of how you dresss up that decision to try to acquire that high profile player, it still doesn't hide the fact that this is the NUMBER ONE reason why the redskins are in the position they are in. It's investing too much into a select number of proven high profile players rather than investing intelligently to both proven low profile veterans and young players with potential and talent.

I never focused on one particular player to use as an example. Hell if the redskins can get any of the players that you are considering for a bargain, then by all means sign him to a contract. But if you're gonna break the bank and give him what a high profile free agent EXPECTS, then I will be there to tell you so when the redskins aren't doing well as a team AGAIN. And this is regardless of how that high profile free agent player performs.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;785586]
However, head in the sand thinking of 'it hasn't worked before so it won't work now' isn't close to the solution either.[/quote]

Just a comment to this -- isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

... and just because you pass or decide against an action, that doesn't mean you are passive.

I just have to shake my head at all of these free agent discussions because I feel like I'm in football fandom hell. We as redskins fans have been living this football nightmare for over a decade.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=warriorzpath;785612]OK, let's get straight what we're talking about. We're talking about deciding to pick up yet another high profile free agent, not anything else.

And regardless of how you dresss up that decision to try to acquire that high profile player, it still doesn't hide the fact that this is the NUMBER ONE reason why the redskins are in the position they are in. It's investing too much into a select number of proven high profile players rather than investing intelligently to both proven low profile veterans and young players with potential and talent.

I never focused on one particular player to use as an example. Hell if the redskins can get any of the players that you are considering for a bargain, then by all means sign him to a contract. But if you're gonna break the bank and give him what a high profile free agent EXPECTS, then I will be there to tell you so when the redskins aren't doing well as a team AGAIN. And this is regardless of how that high profile free agent player performs.[/quote]

Actually THE NUMBER ONE reason why the Redskins are in the position they are in is poor talent evaluation. In 2008 we had 10 draft picks. In the hands of a competent GM and scouting staff that should have set us up for the next 3-5 years of 'young, hungry, low profile talent' but we have one contributing player. The fact we've spent more FA money, traded more picks and missed on more drafted players has far more to do with poor execution than it does poor strategy. The Steelers, Packers, Eagles, Ravens, Patriots, etc. who are perennial winners do one thing better than any others, evaluate talent. We have failed at that task for damn near since Beathard left DC. Don't fall into the camp of 'free agency is bad', we've been terrible at bringing in the right people.

I agree, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. If we were to go out and sign players in the 30's to large contracts, set the market at each position, trade our early round draft picks for role players and expect the Lombardi, you'd have no argument from me. To essentially to ignore talent free agents because free agency hasn't worked before is genuinely insane.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

I'm not suggesting to ignore free agency. I'm saying the opposite, pay more attention -- more attention to the ones not getting that much attention -- hence the "low profile" players.

What I do sort of suggest to ignore (more like stay away from) - are the free agents demanding huge contracts.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=warriorzpath;785622]I'm not suggesting to ignore free agency. I'm saying the opposite, pay more attention -- more attention to the ones not getting that much attention -- hence the "low profile" players.

What I do sort of suggest to ignore (more like stay away from) - are the free agents demanding huge contracts.[/quote]
For role players, 100% agree with you. To ignore prospective starters, those who have proved it elsewhere yet fit A)team needs, B) the right profile (youth, character, etc) and C) the budget, is just as foolish as blindly spending.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Paintrain;785628]For role players, 100% agree with you. To ignore prospective starters, those who have proved it elsewhere yet fit A)team needs, B) the right profile (youth, character, etc) and C) the budget, is just as foolish as blindly spending.[/quote]

I think we just have 2 different approaches. You would consider giving a free agent a huge contract. I wouldn't. Not anymore I wouldn't. I just consider this a mistake that the redskins have been making what it seems like forever to me. You just don't see it the same way. I think we wil see what the redskins will do and if it works out or not.

But I'll be honest, if i'm proven right either way. I'll exercise my bragging rights. Hopefully it won't be a consolation to a redskins losing season.

And to correct someones post recently and so some fans don't go around spewing incorrect redskins trivia - Gary Clark and Santana moss were not redskins free agent pickups

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

I think too many people are still traumatized by big time gaffes committed by this team in free agency such as overpaying questionable talent (Archuleta), giving up picks for washed up/semi-washed up players (Jason Taylor/McNabb), really dumb trades (TJ Duckett), and giving a ton of money to headcases (Haynesworth).

We definitely should build through the draft, but that doesn't exclude getting good free agents. I think Bruce Allen has shown us that he's not going to overpay someone who isn't worth it (see LJ, Parker, etc., etc.). And due to a number of circumstances, we are going to see a number of young talented players that will be available in free agency.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

Shockey is done with the Saints

"Jay Glazer
I'm reporting the Saints are terminating the contract of TE Jeremy Shockey.
4 minutes ago from ÜberSocial"

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=warriorzpath;785637]I think we just have 2 different approaches. You would consider giving a free agent a huge contract. I wouldn't. Not anymore I wouldn't. I just consider this a mistake that the redskins have been making what it seems like forever to me. You just don't see it the same way. I think we wil see what the redskins will do and if it works out or not.

But I'll be honest, if i'm proven right either way. I'll exercise my bragging rights. Hopefully it won't be a consolation to a redskins losing season.

And to correct someones post recently and so some fans don't go around spewing incorrect redskins trivia - Gary Clark and Santana moss were not redskins free agent pickups[/quote]

I see what your saying BUT if S.Rice is there and we obviously have a big need at WR, You wouldn't offer him a deal? He's 24 and has been a pretty good player. Drafting a WR is 50-50 but a proven one is out there for us to look at. I'm all for Drafting but we simply don't have enough picks this year to compete, either way we will be big players in FA again this off season.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Ruhskins;785641]Shockey is done with the Saints

"Jay Glazer
I'm reporting the Saints are terminating the contract of TE Jeremy Shockey.
4 minutes ago from ÜberSocial"[/quote]

Can you say Oakland?

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785643]Can you say Oakland?[/quote]

Him and Zach Miller? Interesting.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Ruhskins;785645]Him and Zach Miller? Interesting.[/quote]

I just figured he was a Raiders guy lol. The Saints made a wise move, that Jimmy Graham kid is good

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785642]I see what your saying BUT if S.Rice is there and we obviously have a big need at WR, You wouldn't offer him a deal? He's 24 and has been a pretty good player. Drafting a WR is 50-50 but a proven one is out there for us to look at. I'm all for Drafting but we simply don't have enough picks this year to compete, either way we will be big players in FA again this off season.[/quote]

The reason why I wouldn't give anyone a break-the-bank contract is the same reason why I would trade down in the first round to acquire more picks. It means the ability to pick up more quality players. I don't people realize that when you tie that much money up to one player it ends up hurting the team. Because it takes away the ability to improve the team in other areas. And god knows the redskins need to improve in almost every area of the team.

This has been my contention. But I'm
a Justin bieber kind of guy. I will never say never. There would be exceptions to this rule. But it would have to be a perfect situation.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

So ryan kahlil was tagged, which means we'll just have to draft a center. Or go after Lyle Sendline of the cardinals, but I don't know if he'd fit the ZBS.

Interesting thing though, is that DAngelo Williams is now a FA, so we should definitely look at him, even though that doesn't fit the Shanahan RB approach.

Also I noticed a lot of hype around Rondey Hudson the G/C from FSU has gone away, I still think he's good and we should take a shot at him.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=warriorzpath;785652]The reason why I wouldn't give anyone a break-the-bank contract is the same reason why [B]I would trade down in the first round to acquire more picks.[/B] It means the ability to pick up more quality players. I don't people realize that when you tie that much money up to one player it ends up hurting the team. Because it takes away the ability to improve the team in other areas. And god knows the redskins need to improve in almost every area of the team.

This has been my contention. But I'm
a Justin bieber kind of guy. I will never say never. There would be exceptions to this rule. But it would have to be a perfect situation.[/quote]


I think we all would want that. I would like to trade down to around 20 and take Locker plus pick up another 2nd.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785655]I think we all would want that. I would like to trade down to around 20 and take Locker plus pick up another 2nd.[/quote]

Dude. Youre not going to pick up a second round pick just by swapping someones 20th pick with our 10th. Maybe a 4th or at best a 3rd

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;785654]So ryan kahlil was tagged, which means we'll just have to draft a center. Or go after Lyle Sendline of the cardinals, [B]but I don't know if he'd fit the ZBS.[/B]

Interesting thing though, is that DAngelo Williams is now a FA, so we should definitely look at him, [B]even though that doesn't fit the Shanahan RB approach.
[/B]
Also I noticed a lot of hype around Rondey Hudson the G/C from FSU has gone away, I still think he's good and we should take a shot at him.[/quote]

Warriorzpath, now THIS is a strategy I am strongly against.. Picking up players that don't fit your scheme, which we've done many times before, is crazy..

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;785657]Dude. Youre not going to pick up a second round pick just by swapping someones 20th pick with our 10th. Maybe a 4th or at best a 3rd[/quote]

A late 2nd? I bet you can

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;785661]A late 2nd? I bet you can[/quote]

Hey, I'm all for it but it just seems like alot to give up just to move up 10 picks.... But if a team really wants a player they'll do what it takes. The pats have picks to burn so maybe them.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;785662]Hey, I'm all for it but it just seems like alot to give up just to move up 10 picks.... But if a team really wants a player they'll do what it takes. The pats have picks to burn so maybe them.[/quote]

I still bet we pick at 10 though, idk what but I don't see us trading down

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

Champ's staying in Denver

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=Ruhskins;785436]Rice doesn't get the tag in Minny. If health is not an issue, he should be a FA priority. He's 24 and can be our #1 WR right away.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6144597]Source: Chad Greenway of Minnesota Vikings to get franchise tag - ESPN[/url][/quote]

For us to get him we'll likely have to go back to our old ways of overpaying. Guy can basically choose where he goes.

Re: Free Agency/Franchise Tag thread 2011
 

[quote=warriorzpath;785519]Some redskins fans never learn.[/quote]

So what you're saying is that you don't want very talented players? You want them to work towards getting better after starting low? Even the best teams use free agency. You don't have to make ALL of your acquisitions big splashes but it sure doesn't hurt to have a premier player who hasn't had many issues.