Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565956]LOL.............yeah BUT he didn't.You can find one thing in every game,if the Pats D holds on to Eli, if the ref blows the whisle,if,if,if Tyree drops the ball...............but if didn't happen.I'll take an"under performing" #1 ...who can take a team as young as the Giants with the changes he keeps having thrown at him...anytime them some loser who has good stats and can't win a pressure game to save his life(not JC).
The team must believe in the QB ....the Giants do,[B]do the rest of the Skins believe in JC[/B]?[/quote]

I haven't heard or seen anything to make me think they don't. Giantone has a point. You can always point to different things in a game that would have changed the outcome. Eli has a ring and Jason doesn't. Doe's that mean he's a better QB though? Using that logic, Eli is better than Dan Marino ever was. I think it's too early in their careers to make a clearcut choice. Hopefully we'll at least have a little clearer picture after this year..... Or maybe we won't.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=Giantone;565957]lol......call CNN , we agaree![/quote]

Damn. That's scary! :)

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565931]Interceptions don't mean squat. Favre leads record books in interceptions -- and yet he's destined for the Hall of Fame and they are talking about Minnesota being considered as a Super Bowl contender if he comes back.

An interception rarely leads to a pick-six -- in fact, a deep interception is like a punt. We all know the fact that Jason Campbell has LESS interceptions means he was dumping it off instead of actually throwing downfield. I'd LOVE for Campbell to have more interceptions this year -- as a surrogate for him actually taking more chances & throwing downfield.

IN FACT, Tom Brady stats for most of his career: avg: 23-26 touchdowns, 12-14 interceptions. Statistics don't tell the whole story, but cannot be ignored. Sadly, Campbell has averaged less than a touchdown per game.

In the NFL, it's about winning. You win by points. Touchdowns clearly matter more. There's just no way you can compare Eli's stats with 60% more touchdowns and say they are similar.[/quote]

I agree. 6 INTs is almost a negative when paired with only 13TDs. It's indicative of someone who plays scared and doesn't take chances.

I'd say it's close, but I give the edge to Eli. The skins blitzed the bejeezus out of Eli in the second game last year, and he threw for 305 yards (about 2 games worth of yardage for JC). Had nothing to do with his O line either. He anticipated the blitz, knew where to go with the ball and made pin-point passes before the defense could get to him. I remember being surprised how fast he was getting the ball off. The Skins took a chance Eli couldn't beat them, and it backfired. They were in his face all day, but he didn't hold onto the ball like JC has a tendency to do.

Also, I can't envision JC making a play like Eli did in the Super Bowl. I can't envision Eli doing it again either, but he did it when it mattered.

And as far as how Eli would do with the Skins personnel, I'd say he would do a couple games better than JC. We already saw what Todd Collins did the the same players JC had to work with.

All that said, I hope and think JC will have a big year, but the "haters" have every right to be critical of him. Irregarless of all the excuses, he's proven nothing yet.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=WaldSkins;565953]Who care's, thats like comparing Randel El to Brandon Lloyd. I dont really see the point.[/quote]

That was my point.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Great another what if/comparison/prediction/ranking thread. When does training camp start?

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=44Deezel;565968]I agree. 6 INTs is almost a negative when paired with only 13TDs. It's indicative of someone who plays scared and doesn't take chances.

...

All that said, I hope and think JC will have a big year, but the "haters" have every right to be critical of him. Irregarless of all the excuses, he's proven nothing yet.[/quote]You do realize your entire argument is predicated on the fact that we accept that [I]interceptions are not bad things for an NFL Quarterbacks[/I].

Note, that you did nothing to establish this fact. You offered an alternative suggestion that I've seen before, that 6 INTs is a high number given the circumstances, but it's also a lower number than pretty much anyone else in the league.

Chad Pennington was intercepted 7 times while being ultra cautious as quarterback of the Dolphins in the regular season. Now, according to your argument above, you must also think that 7 was too many INTs. After all, he only threw 19 TDs, so maybe he should have been chucking more and ducking less. Right?

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=saden1;565949]Cut the f'ing bulsh*t people, Eli is much better than JC. Period![/quote]saden, you cut yourself and gushed blue.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Let me say it then: [B][U]interceptions are NOT bad things for NFL quarterbacks[/U][/B].

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1"] Here are the top QB's with interceptions for last year[/URL]:
1) Brett Favre -- 22
2) Jay Cutler -- 18
3) Drew Brees -- 17
4) Gus Frerotte -- 15
4) Ben Roethlisberger -- 15
6) Tony Romo -- 14
6) Kurt Warner -- 14

So if interceptions are such a BAD thing, why are there THREE superbowl QB's and some of the most highly regarded names in the game on this list?

No one wants the QB to throw an int. But they are not the end of the world, and when you have one of the [U]best defensive units[/U] in the GAME -- WHY NOT TAKE CHANCES??

In contrast, who's at the TOP of the list with the LEAST interceptions? Seneca Wallace, Jason Campbell, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, Chad Pennington.

In the NFL, you must throw to a receiver BEFORE they are open. You have to TRUST the receiver runs the right route, and can win some toss-ups. That may lead to some interceptions, but there's clearly more benefit than risk.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Joe Gibbs taught again and again and again that what wins football games is winning the turnover battle. Minimize your turnovers, maximize the opposition's, and you win football games. While he was pleased with touchdown passes, and in fact he came from the Air Coryell school of passing offense, he emphasized ball safety over and over.

Bill Parcells has always taught the same. For both Gibbs and Parcells, avoiding turnovers is more important than racking up touchdown passes.

Then again, what do Gibbs and Parcells know about winning NFL games?

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565990]Let me say it then: [B][U]interceptions are NOT bad things for NFL quarterbacks[/U][/B].
[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=1&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1"] Here are the top QB's with interceptions for last year[/URL]:
1) Brett Favre -- 22
2) Jay Cutler -- 18
3) Drew Brees -- 17
4) Gus Frerotte -- 15
4) Ben Roethlisberger -- 15
6) Tony Romo -- 14
6) Kurt Warner -- 14

So if interceptions are such a BAD thing, why are there THREE superbowl QB's and some of the most highly regarded names in the game on this list?

No one wants the QB to throw an int. But they are not the end of the world, and when you have one of the [U]best defensive units[/U] in the GAME -- WHY NOT TAKE CHANCES??

In contrast, who's at the TOP of the list with the LEAST interceptions? Seneca Wallace, Jason Campbell, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, Chad Pennington.

In the NFL, you must throw to a receiver BEFORE they are open. You have to TRUST the receiver runs the right route, and can win some toss-ups. That may lead to some interceptions, but there's clearly more benefit than risk.[/quote]

Of your list of most pick-throwers, only 2 out of 6 made the playoffs last year. Of your list of least pick-throwers, 2 made the playoffs and 2 were in playoff contention. I'm sorry but your lists are not much of a recommendation for your point.

Your argument about good defenses is back-asswards. If you have a good defense, why put them in bad spots? You negate the presence of Haynesworth and others when you throw pick-sixes or otherwise set the other team up in scoring position. When you have a good defense, you want the other team to EARN their yards, not give points or field position away.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Eli sucked til his SB year while JC has been rather consistent. Thing is like what DMV said in his thread initiating post, JC hasn't been allowed to win for the most part. Just bought the Sporting News Pro Football preview yesterday and they actually go out on a limib and put us at 4-12. They do think Thomas is going to break out, but not sure that that will make up for such an old O line and the other young Wr's. Lindy's and Athlons put us at a more realistic 8-8, but all 3 pretty much say the same thing. All 3 think JC is good, but don't seem they think he is great either. To be honest, if the Skins do suck this season I think JC will just leave on his own. He is a good QB that is starter caliber and with so many teams in a QB quandry, I am sure he will be a starter elsewhere. Our FO is probably the dumbest bunch of idiots around. If they were actaully going for Cutler and Sanchez they should have gone all out. Instead they made enough of an effort to make it look like they wanted them, but didn't want to pay the asking price. Now JC knows he is not wanted by the people it counts with the most, the FO.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565990]Let me say it then: [B][U]interceptions are NOT bad things for NFL quarterbacks[/U][/B].

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1"] Here are the top QB's with interceptions for last year[/URL]:
1) Brett Favre -- 22
2) Jay Cutler -- 18
3) Drew Brees -- 17
4) Gus Frerotte -- 15
4) Ben Roethlisberger -- 15
6) Tony Romo -- 14
6) Kurt Warner -- 14

So if interceptions are such a BAD thing, why are there THREE superbowl QB's and some of the most highly regarded names in the game on this list?

No one wants the QB to throw an int. But they are not the end of the world, and when you have one of the [U]best defensive units[/U] in the GAME -- WHY NOT TAKE CHANCES??

In contrast, who's at the TOP of the list with the LEAST interceptions? Seneca Wallace, Jason Campbell, Jeff Garcia, Kerry Collins, Chad Pennington.

In the NFL, you must throw to a receiver BEFORE they are open. You have to TRUST the receiver runs the right route, and can win some toss-ups. That may lead to some interceptions, but there's clearly more benefit than risk.[/quote]

I understand your frustration with playing safe. I agree with you to a point. I was at times, furious with JC and our offense last year. I can't count the times I screamed at the T.V., "Just throw the f**king ball deep! At least try it!!!" There is a fine line between playing aggressive and playing stupid however. Hopefully J.C. can play more aggressive this year throwing to receivers who know their routes as opposed to last year where it seemed like there was a 50/50 chance the receiver would be in the spot where the ball was suppose to be thrown to. From your lists, it looks like 2 QB's from each list made the playoffs last year if I remember correctly. I wouldn't say that proves INT's aren't a bad thing. If anything, it proves their teams were strong enough to overcome their mistakes. I agree that we need to have more of a "Go for it" attitude. With a second consecutive year in the same system and the confidence that comes with that, I'm hoping to see that this year. If not, then some changes need to be made. Playing [B]too safe[/B] means playing conservative and shows a lack of confidence in your teams abilities IMO. Confidence was not something our Super Bowl teams lacked. But then again, they had no reason to. When your receivers are consistently doing their job, it can make a QB a lot more confident throwing them the ball. And also the coach who is calling the plays and who would in all likelyhood pull a QB who consistently threw INT's while trying to throw to receivers who were running the wrong routes. :)

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

Well, the two QBs you refer to were:
- Kerry Collins (made it to post-season on defense, running game)
- Chad Pennington -- had a good season

EVERY QB on the top of my list was in contention for the playoffs, including both superbowl QB's. Even Gus Frerotte was 8-3 for the Vikings before he got injured.

Anyway, clearly I'm not advocating throwing interceptions. I know they kill drives and morale. I think 53Fan sees my point -- hopefully JC loosens up a bit and actually trusts our WR's this year to throw to them.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565998]Well, the two QBs you refer to were:
- Kerry Collins (made it to post-season on defense, running game)
- Chad Pennington -- had a good season

EVERY QB on the top of my list was in contention for the playoffs, including both superbowl QB's. Even Gus Frerotte was 8-3 for the Vikings before he got injured.

Anyway, clearly I'm not advocating throwing interceptions. I know they kill drives and morale. I think 53Fan sees my point -- [B]hopefully JC loosens up a bit and actually trusts our WR's this year to throw to them.[/B][/quote]

Well, you are in good company then, because everyone is saying that, including JC.

Re: Eli Manning vs Jason Campbell
 

[quote=ethat001;565998]Well, the two QBs you refer to were:
- Kerry Collins (made it to post-season on defense, running game)
- Chad Pennington -- had a good season

EVERY QB on the top of my list was in contention for the playoffs, including both superbowl QB's. Even Gus Frerotte was 8-3 for the Vikings before he got injured.

Anyway, clearly I'm not advocating throwing interceptions. I know they kill drives and morale. I think 53Fan sees my point -- hopefully JC loosens up a bit and actually trusts our WR's this year to throw to them.[/quote]

I understand completely. :food-smil I'd like to see our QB be able to make it RAIN on the poor bastards if needed to. Hail Redskins!