Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1268589]Speaking strictly in terms of draft position, perhaps. However, I wouldn't say the team is worse off for winning. That's what we're building here, right - a winning culture?

I'd much rather pick 32nd every year than in the top 15.[/quote]

True, hence the emojis. 😁

But I'd rather pick 32 with a franchise QB already in place than still looking for one. 😊

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1268588]
I commented on Mac Jones earlier, and he looks raw to me with a poor arm.
[/quote]

Wow. I can't imagine what games you have seen to come away with this take on Mac Jones.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

The plan should be what Kansas City did. If you want to keep Smith for next year fine. But the number one priority for next year should be drafting the QB of the future.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1268593]The plan should be what Kansas City did. If you want to keep Smith for next year fine. But the number one priority for next year should be drafting the QB of the future.[/QUOTE]



It just isnt that simple. We have holes to fill so we are not going to reach for one early. That would be a mistake. I would much rather have a stud o lineman in the first and a corner in the second that can step right in for example. We could take one after that and call him the quarterback of the future but who knows if he will be. Look at our history with first rounders for Gods sake.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1268490]How did Joe Gibbs win? Were any of his QB's stars besides Theismann? Next year barring injury we are going to be stacked on both sides, we have some really good players on IR even though unproven, my gut tells me Charles, AGG, Love and maybe even Ruben Foster will pan out. We need someone to manage the ball not a superstar.

I'm intrigued with Steven Montez, maybe with some coaching and mentoring he could rise above Allen and Haskins. I hope he goes to camp next year.[/quote]

As much as I love Joe Gibbs for being the best coach we've ever had, I don't believe the argument that a team can win today in the style that Gibbs won in the 80's is relevant. First of all, Gibbs is a unicorn, in that there is no other coach in history that won 3 SB's with 3 different qb's.

Second of all, the rules of today are more favorable towards teams with elite qb's who put up big numbers.

For reference, let's look at the Super Bowl winners dating back to 2000:

Mahomes, Brady, Foles/Wentz, Brady, P. Manning, Brady, R. Wilson, Flacco, E. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, E. Manning, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Gannon, Brady, Dilfer.

Now, let's exclude the GOAT because if the model you're trying to build is duplicating the success of the greatest QB/HC the league has ever seen you're gonna have a bad time. What do we have left?

Mahomes x1 (elite)
Foles/Wentz x1 (obviously a one-off at this point)
P. Manning x2 (elite)
Russ Wilson x1 (another elite HOF-tracking qb, noticing a trend here?)
Flacco x1 (along with Eli, the modern day example of combining above-average with clutch performance and a great D to win a title)
Eli Manning x2 (the formula is above average statistical -aka not elite- + clutch + great d = Super Bowl contender/winner)
Rodgers x1 (elite)
Brees x1 (elite)
Roethlisberger x2 (borderline elite + great d)
Gannon x1 (above average + great d)
Dilfer x1 (game manager + HOF worthy D)

Let's break it down another way:

Elite - Mahomes, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger = 8 titles (14 if you count Brady, which you should absolutely should because Brady has been elite every year until this year). So that's 14/20 titles.

Game manager to above average statistical combined with a clutch performance here and there and a great defense - 6 titles (Eli Manning x2, Foles/Wentz, Flacco, Gannon, Dilfer)

In conclusion, yeah you can win a title in today's NFL when you combine a great defense with an above-average qb capable of clutch performances, but the odds are lower than finding a stud qb and surrounding him with a quality team (that is still gonna need some clutch performances on top of that). It's incredibly hard to win a title in today's NFL, just ask above-average elite qb's like Deshaun Watson, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins, Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, Dak Prescott - all guys who were considered above average/had statistical success at some stage in their careers but have never hoisted a Lombardi).

But the odds are higher if you build a solid team in all 3 aspects and also have a great qb capable of pulling off clutch performances on the NFL's biggest stage. Me personally, our defense (while good) has not achieved elite status -yet- and even if it did I'm not sold that Alex Smith is the guy that you can combine with a great defense to win a title. Alex Smith's biggest strength is not making mistakes/turnovers. He's not a playmaker. He's not gonna razzle/dazzle you on occasion. If the defense has a good day and the running game is functioning, that's good enough to win more often than not. But is he going to bail you out when those other units are having bad days? No. Can he serve as a capable bridge qb until the next long term quy is ready to play? Yes. But that's his ceiling as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=punch it in;1268595]It just isnt that simple. We have holes to fill so we are not going to reach for one early. That would be a mistake. I would much rather have a stud o lineman in the first and a corner in the second that can step right in for example. We could take one after that and call him the quarterback of the future but who knows if he will be. Look at our history with first rounders for Gods sake.[/quote]

This is correct, but I’ll say now that we have the football guys making the choice at QB...if they love someone that’s a fit for the offense and culture, get him in the first. Get that extra year in the contract and get him now with Smith is on the team.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

Jones does not seem to have an elite arm. And it seems like every team Alabama plays is overwhelmed by the total talent of the Alabama team not by anything that Jones does in an elite manner.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=mooby;1268596]As much as I love Joe Gibbs for being the best coach we've ever had, I don't believe the argument that a team can win today in the style that Gibbs won in the 80's is relevant. First of all, Gibbs is a unicorn, in that there is no other coach in history that won 3 SB's with 3 different qb's.

Second of all, the rules of today are more favorable towards teams with elite qb's who put up big numbers.

For reference, let's look at the Super Bowl winners dating back to 2000:

Mahomes, Brady, Foles/Wentz, Brady, P. Manning, Brady, R. Wilson, Flacco, E. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, E. Manning, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Gannon, Brady, Dilfer.

Now, let's exclude the GOAT because if the model you're trying to build is duplicating the success of the greatest QB/HC the league has ever seen you're gonna have a bad time. What do we have left?

Mahomes x1 (elite)
Foles/Wentz x1 (obviously a one-off at this point)
P. Manning x2 (elite)
Russ Wilson x1 (another elite HOF-tracking qb, noticing a trend here?)
Flacco x1 (along with Eli, the modern day example of combining above-average with clutch performance and a great D to win a title)
Eli Manning x2 (the formula is above average statistical -aka not elite- + clutch + great d = Super Bowl contender/winner)
Rodgers x1 (elite)
Brees x1 (elite)
Roethlisberger x2 (borderline elite + great d)
Gannon x1 (above average + great d)
Dilfer x1 (game manager + HOF worthy D)

Let's break it down another way:

Elite - Mahomes, Peyton Manning, Russell Wilson, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger = 8 titles (14 if you count Brady, which you should absolutely should because Brady has been elite every year until this year). So that's 14/20 titles.

Game manager to above average statistical combined with a clutch performance here and there and a great defense - 6 titles (Eli Manning x2, Foles/Wentz, Flacco, Gannon, Dilfer)

In conclusion, yeah you can win a title in today's NFL when you combine a great defense with an above-average qb capable of clutch performances, but the odds are lower than finding a stud qb and surrounding him with a quality team (that is still gonna need some clutch performances on top of that). It's incredibly hard to win a title in today's NFL, just ask above-average elite qb's like Deshaun Watson, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins, Lamar Jackson, Cam Newton, Dak Prescott - all guys who were considered above average/had statistical success at some stage in their careers but have never hoisted a Lombardi).

But the odds are higher if you build a solid team in all 3 aspects and also have a great qb capable of pulling off clutch performances on the NFL's biggest stage. Me personally, our defense (while good) has not achieved elite status -yet- and even if it did I'm not sold that Alex Smith is the guy that you can combine with a great defense to win a title. Alex Smith's biggest strength is not making mistakes/turnovers. He's not a playmaker. He's not gonna razzle/dazzle you on occasion. If the defense has a good day and the running game is functioning, that's good enough to win more often than not. But is he going to bail you out when those other units are having bad days? No. Can he serve as a capable bridge qb until the next long term quy is ready to play? Yes. But that's his ceiling as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]

Between 2000 and 2019 there were 56 qb's drafted in the first round. Here is a good article ranking them: [url]https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-every-nfl-quarterback-drafted-first-round-since-2000/16obdsowna7kk1gnhl9iqrp2pg[/url]

Of the 7 you listed as elite: 4 were 1st rounders, 3 were outside of the first round, and adding in that Rodgers was selected at pick 24, where we almost certainly will be picking before, that means half the qb's you list elite available would theoretically be available when we pick, and also 53 selections that the teams got wrong.

My point is that what is important is that you pick the right qb, and that comes down to Front Office - GM, Scouting and Coach. Now, with the WFT you have the added question of whether the owner will nose around in the selection, and that is where success this year gives RR the extra credibility to keep Dan Snyder at bay.

As for Alex, he is one of those 53 1st rounders, and he certainly is above game manager level. He has that knack to lead winning teams.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

This team has everything in place except QB to make a run at a super bowl ...good coaching a very good D ( need very little there) .. add a WR opposite of terry ..it’s all there EXCEPT QB ...what do we do ??? One player away .. how far could we go with Brady back there ?? You guys don’t think there is a vet QB out there that we could bring in and spend our draft on WR, OL , LB , DB ... and go win ..

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=rocnrik;1268606]This team has everything in place except QB to make a run at a super bowl ...good coaching a very good D ( need very little there) .. add a WR opposite of terry ..it’s all there EXCEPT QB ...what do we do ??? One player away .. how far could we go with Brady back there ?? You guys don’t think there is a vet QB out there that we could bring in and spend our draft on WR, OL , LB , DB ... and go win ..[/quote]

Why is everyone saying add another WR? We have AGG and Harmon, they both will pan out. I hope they activate AGG this week and use him, I know he can produce.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=rocnrik;1268606]This team has everything in place except QB to make a run at a super bowl ...good coaching a very good D ( need very little there) .. add a WR opposite of terry ..it’s all there EXCEPT QB ...what do we do ??? One player away .. how far could we go with Brady back there ?? You guys don’t think there is a vet QB out there that we could bring in and spend our draft on WR, OL , LB , DB ... and go win ..[/quote]

I agree, the window will be open for the next 4-5 years.. This team needs to find a QB asap

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=rocnrik;1268606]This team has everything in place except QB to make a run at a super bowl ...good coaching a very good D ( need very little there) .. add a WR opposite of terry ..it’s all there EXCEPT QB ...what do we do ??? One player away .. how far could we go with Brady back there ?? You guys don’t think there is a vet QB out there that we could bring in and spend our draft on WR, OL , LB , DB ... and go win ..[/quote]

I think I'll wait until after Sunday to decide whether or not this is a Super Bowl caliber defense. They have shown that they can definitely make plays, and at times carry the team, but let's not forget about the competition that they have balled out against.

The Seattle game will show us what this D is made of.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1268611]I think I'll wait until after Sunday to decide whether or not this is a Super Bowl caliber defense. They have shown that they can definitely make plays, and at times carry the team, but let's not forget about the competition that they have balled out against.

The Seattle game will show us what this D is made of.[/quote]

Seattle's OL is not even close to Pitt or SF OL's, the key is to contain Wilson, he's most dangerous when he's on the run. We'll see if he can get away from the spy and D, I have a feeling he's going to be running like Lamar Jackson and try to wear out our D if he's not killed by Sweat and Young.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1268613]Seattle's OL is not even close to Pitt or SF OL's, the key is to contain Wilson, he's most dangerous when he's on the run. We'll see if he can get away from the spy and D, I have a feeling he's going to be running like Lamar Jackson and try to wear out our D if he's not killed by Sweat and Young.[/QUOTE]Wilson is terrific at protecting himself, and scoring when the pressure is on. But our defense has shown itself to be very disciplined in their assignments so I think they will be ok against Seattle. They will give up some plays and points tho' so our offense can not be stagnant. The WFT needs to look at the NYG-SEA game and follow that blueprint.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1268614]Wilson is terrific at protecting himself, and scoring when the pressure is on. But our defense has shown itself to be very disciplined in their assignments so I think they will be ok against Seattle. They will give up some plays and points tho' so our offense can not be stagnant. The WFT needs to look at the NYG-SEA game and follow that blueprint.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Exactly, Wilson couldn't get out of the pocket vs the Giants. Their DL played disciplined containment all game long and collapsed the pocket quickly. We need the same.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1268608]Why is everyone saying add another WR? We have AGG and Harmon, they both will pan out. I hope they activate AGG this week and use him, I know he can produce.[/quote]

Because Harmon's on injured reserve and AGG has 1 catch for 3 yards on the year.

Could they turn out good someday? Sure. Do we want to wait for them to get enough playing time to develop into a quality wideout when we could find a veteran to step in as the #2 this offseason? Ehhh.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=mooby;1268647]Because Harmon's on injured reserve and AGG has 1 catch for 3 yards on the year.

Could they turn out good someday? Sure. Do we want to wait for them to get enough playing time to develop into a quality wideout when we could find a veteran to step in as the #2 this offseason? Ehhh.[/quote]

Exactly. If the opportunity presents itself to be able to snag A Robinson, W Fuller, C Davis, or C Samuel, you do it. If AGG or Harmon pan out, great...but can't really count on them, and not try to upgrade the position.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

Going into next year with this defense, I think it's crucial to load up and take our best shot at winning it all in the next 2-3 years while we have several key guys on their rookie deals. And that means getting playmakers in here. Sorry you can't rely on Harmon and AGG panning out when so far they haven't shown anything to believe they are locks to be highly productive players.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

This needs to be an offense offseason.

Well rounded TE and WR should be tops on list. I still think adding a Running Back in the draft would be really smart.

A lot of decisions at Oline...but we seem to have solid group who has bought into the scheme. Roullier and Schreff are playing outstanding...Lucas is holding his own in pass pro. Wes Schweitzer is a starter period and Moses is under contract along with Schweitzer and playing well. And Ismel and Charles waiting in the wings.I feel good about our group there

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

WFT twitter verse is trying to hype up a Watson trade lmao there is no way that happens

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1268597]This is correct, but I’ll say now that we have the football guys making the choice at QB...if they love someone that’s a fit for the offense and culture, get him in the first. Get that extra year in the contract and get him now with Smith is on the team.[/QUOTE]



Yeah my weariness is completely based on past “football” guys including our owner who is still there. But yes i trust our current FO more.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1268606]This team has everything in place except QB to make a run at a super bowl ...good coaching a very good D ( need very little there) .. add a WR opposite of terry ..it’s all there EXCEPT QB ...what do we do ??? One player away .. how far could we go with Brady back there ?? You guys don’t think there is a vet QB out there that we could bring in and spend our draft on WR, OL , LB , DB ... and go win ..[/QUOTE]



Completely my point as opposed to a project quarterback that could take 3-4 years to fully come of age. Has to be a vet that can win now and for 3-4 years out there. Once we winning then go get a quarterback in the draft. Then you got your master mentor situation. Alex just isn’t good enough anymore. Obviously hitting a gem in the later rounds now would be awesome.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1268654]Going into next year with this defense, I think it's crucial to load up and take our best shot at winning it all in the next 2-3 years while we have several key guys on their rookie deals. And that means getting playmakers in here. Sorry you can't rely on Harmon and AGG panning out when so far they haven't shown anything to believe they are locks to be highly productive players.[/QUOTE]



So you think we need to sign a veteran quarterback ala rypien/williams/Schroeder? I do.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

Matt Stafford come on down

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=punch it in;1268667]Completely my point as opposed to a project quarterback that could take 3-4 years to fully come of age. Has to be a vet that can win now and for 3-4 years out there. Once we winning then go get a quarterback in the draft. Then you got your master mentor situation. Alex just isn’t good enough anymore. Obviously hitting a gem in the later rounds now would be awesome.[/quote]

I'm no cap expert, but that just seems crazy given what Alex is still due. It would have to be a cheap Vet, and if it's a cheap Vet, is he really an upgrade? If it's not a cheap Vet then you are jeopardizing the opportunity to upgrade the positions around him in free agency, and you just take your chances in the draft. There are some decisions to be made ($$ to be spent) on the Oline and elsewhere.

Scherff and Roullier are both UFA this offseason, as well as Sundberg, Hopkins, KPL, Darby, Cam Sims, Reaves, Moreau, all the TEs except for Thomas. I wouldn't mind an upgrade at tackle since we don't know what we have in Charles. WR needs to be upgraded, and TE. This defense is good, but the back seven could use some upgrades/extensions... I just don't see how you tie up a bunch of additional $ in the QB position, and still improve the rest of the team, or even maintain what you have.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

"I know that the Washington Football Team, their Super Bowl window, it opens next season."

—
@Foxworth24
Eyes

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1268600]Between 2000 and 2019 there were 56 qb's drafted in the first round. Here is a good article ranking them: [url]https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/list/ranking-every-nfl-quarterback-drafted-first-round-since-2000/16obdsowna7kk1gnhl9iqrp2pg[/url]

Of the 7 you listed as elite: 4 were 1st rounders, 3 were outside of the first round, and adding in that Rodgers was selected at pick 24, where we almost certainly will be picking before, that means half the qb's you list elite available would theoretically be available when we pick, and also 53 selections that the teams got wrong.

My point is that what is important is that you pick the right qb, and that comes down to Front Office - GM, Scouting and Coach. Now, with the WFT you have the added question of whether the owner will nose around in the selection, and that is where success this year gives RR the extra credibility to keep Dan Snyder at bay.

As for Alex, he is one of those 53 1st rounders, and he certainly is above game manager level. He has that knack to lead winning teams.[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree, who you draft at qb is way more important than where you draft, and you can't just go picking a qb if you're gonna ignore all the red flags in hopes that you can be the team that straightens them out.

But Alex Smith this year (as much as I love him and his inspiring comeback story) is barely even game manager level. Maybe he's still knocking the rust off? I give him the benefit of the doubt. But let's look at the numbers of his compadres around the league.

I made this table (thanks AnonEmouse) to compare the stats of the league leaders at the position, here's your top 12:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/efsnwAV.jpg[/img]
A couple things: I didn't include fumbles because ESPN and NFL.com and Pro Football Reference all make tracking fumbles difficult thanks to how they sort it. Other than the exceptions noted most elite qb's only have 1-2 fumbles (not sure how many lost since ESPN doesn't specify except in cases of rushing fumbles). So their TD/TO ratio is mostly based off passing td's/int's, except in cases where rushing is a feature of their style.

For draft position I put a star on Tannehill because he had to escape the Dolphins to revitalize his career and ascend to the next level. Kirk could have a star too as he had to sit for 3 seasons and study/wait before he got PT, then it took half a season of playing terribly and going down 24-3 at the half to the Bucs before he finally said fuck it and decided to play like he had nothing to lose. But for most of these qb's they are still with the team that drafted them and playing well.

Now we scroll down to Alex. I love Alex's redemption story and would be happy rolling with him next year while we find someone to groom, but I also believe planning around a 37 year old qb coming off a gruesome leg injury that is apparently having some sort of issue would be a terrible career move for Ron.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Qvjoe8z.jpg[/img]

My key takeaways from this: You don't have to draft a qb at the top of the 1st to find a stud. You do need a qb with a minimum of 2/1 TD/TO ratio just to compete. If you draft a guy in the later rounds, the odds are that he's going to need more time to sit and develop are higher. Turning someone else's trash into treasure (R. Tannehill) is not impossible, but it is improbable.

And finally, there are guys that aren't even mentioned here still having above-average seasons, but they aren't making any noise for whatever reason.

Kyler Murray 23/10 td/int (plus 10 rushing td's)
Matt Stafford 22/9
Phillip Rivers 20/9
Drew Brees 18/3 (small sample size obv)
Lamar Jackson 18/7 (plus 6 rushing td's)

I think we might be a bit jaded because last time we traded up for a qb in the draft, it set this franchise back about 4 years. But let's say we finish with a draft pick between 16-32, would you trade 2022's first to move up a few spots to draft a guy you like (assuming he's available on draft day?)

Right now we have a quality defense (could use some help at LB/maybe a corner/safety if they want better play from Everett). Assuming we get another quality target at WR/TE next year we might be looking at a 2-3 year window (while we still have key guys on rookie contracts) where we can try to contend. Do we really want to waste next season letting more young guys develop? No. Alex Smith might expect to roll into the offseason as the starter for next year, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent with who we have on the roster at qb. We gotta start looking for the next guy, if Ron & co. aren't already.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1268663]WFT twitter verse is trying to hype up a Watson trade lmao there is no way that happens[/QUOTE]

If O'Brien l was still in the house maybe... :)

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1268671]"I know that the Washington Football Team, their Super Bowl window, it opens next season."

—
@Foxworth24
Eyes[/quote]

No doubt, a couple more pieces on D and this is a championship caliber D. Just need a little more on offense but overall this team is ready to win in the next 2-3 years if they play their cards right.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

Mooby, sorry to be a pedant, but that's a table not a chart. 😉

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=mooby;1268676]

I think we might be a bit jaded because last time we traded up for a qb in the draft, it set this franchise back about 4 years. [B]But let's say we finish with a draft pick between 16-32, would you trade 2022's first to move up a few spots to draft a guy you like[/B] (assuming he's available on draft day?)

[/quote]

I would be for that, absolutely. They moved up about 20 slots to get Sweat at 26 - cost them two 2nd round picks. If they somehow find their QB of the future in the second half of the 1st round, and only give up two 2nd rounders or 2022's 1st round pick...I'd be all in on that, providing we keep our 2021 1st round pick.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1268727]Mooby, sorry to be a pedant, but that's a table not a chart. 😉[/quote]

To anyone else I'd say IDGAF, but I ain't got no beef with you.

Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1268740]I would be for that, absolutely. They moved up about 20 slots to get Sweat at 26 - cost them two 2nd round picks. If they somehow find their QB of the future in the second half of the 1st round, and only give up two 2nd rounders or 2022's 1st round pick...I'd be all in on that, providing we keep our 2021 1st round pick.[/quote]

Exactly. In the scenario I'm implying, we either win the division and pick between 20-30 dep. how far we go. Or we lose the division and pick between 10-20.

In either scenario we'd trade 2022's first rounder to move up into the next 10 spots to draft a guy who's on the board. Ideally if we could give up 2 two's instead of a first, that'd be better.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

I'd say it might depend on FA. If we fill some gaps with solid not too expensive guys, then we can probably spare 1 or 2 picks in a trade. But if they are cautious and we still have holes, I'd be wary of trading away valuable picks for an unknown.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1268740]I would be for that, absolutely. They moved up about 20 slots to get Sweat at 26 - cost them two 2nd round picks. If they somehow find their QB of the future in the second half of the 1st round, and only give up two 2nd rounders or 2022's 1st round pick...I'd be all in on that, providing we keep our 2021 1st round pick.[/quote]

Actually, in the trade to move up to draft Sweat in 2019, one of the 2 second round picks you mentioned was the one we were moving up from. The actual "cost" of moving up the 20 or so spots for that pick was one second round pick - the 2020 one. If you are talking about giving up two seconds in addition to the first round pick we are moving up from to move up 10 or so spots, we'd better be damn sure about the guy we would be getting, IMO.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=Number44;1268749]Actually, in the trade to move up to draft Sweat in 2019, one of the 2 second round picks you mentioned was the one we were moving up from. The actual "cost" of moving up the 20 or so spots for that pick was one second round pick - the 2020 one. If you are talking about giving up two seconds in addition to the first round pick we are moving up from to move up 10 or so spots, we'd better be damn sure about the guy we would be getting, IMO.[/quote]

They gave up pick # 46 (2nd round) from 2019, and pick # 34 (2nd round) from 2020. The cost to pick at #26 in 2019 was two 2nd round picks.

Wft quarterback of the future
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1268670]I'm no cap expert, but that just seems crazy given what Alex is still due. It would have to be a cheap Vet, and if it's a cheap Vet, is he really an upgrade? If it's not a cheap Vet then you are jeopardizing the opportunity to upgrade the positions around him in free agency, and you just take your chances in the draft. There are some decisions to be made ($$ to be spent) on the Oline and elsewhere.



Scherff and Roullier are both UFA this offseason, as well as Sundberg, Hopkins, KPL, Darby, Cam Sims, Reaves, Moreau, all the TEs except for Thomas. I wouldn't mind an upgrade at tackle since we don't know what we have in Charles. WR needs to be upgraded, and TE. This defense is good, but the back seven could use some upgrades/extensions... I just don't see how you tie up a bunch of additional $ in the QB position, and still improve the rest of the team, or even maintain what you have.[/QUOTE]



Im certainly no cap expert but Snyder will find a way to pay say Stafford or Rivers if he thinks we can seriously contend for a title next year. We have a few key guys injured coming back. We have the draft. I dont know how much of a splash in free agency we would need to make. Also RR will have a full pre season and a lot of our young guys are only going to get better.
That being said Im all for what Mooby alluded to which is trading down and giving up 2022’s first for a guy like Zach Wilson and then you can spend in free agency.
Problem is FA starts March so if all the vets get signed and we cant trade down in April well.....

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

So what I meant by that is, if WFT can trade their 2020 2nd round pick and their 2021 2nd round pick to move back into the back end of the 1st round and find their QB of the future, I'd be just fine with that. I would not be fine with including the 2021 1st round pick.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1268750]They gave up pick # 46 (2nd round) from 2019, and pick # 34 (2nd round) from 2020. The cost to pick at #26 in 2019 was two 2nd round picks.[/quote]

Again, the #46 pick is the one they moved up from. It cost the 2020 2nd round pick to move up.

Re: Wft quarterback of the future
 

[quote=mooby;1268676]I wholeheartedly agree, who you draft at qb is way more important than where you draft, and you can't just go picking a qb if you're gonna ignore all the red flags in hopes that you can be the team that straightens them out.

[/quote]
I disagree. I hate to oversimplify but I would rather have the first pick of QBs.

The first two QBs drafted are typically the best in that draft class.
Russell Wilson and Tom Brady are exceptions.

Jamarcus Russell and Brady Quinn were horrible first round picks but that draft had zero QB talent. Brady Quinn was best of that draft class.

If a talented QB is there, you gotta taken him or you end up drafting Carlos Rogers instead of Aaron Rodgers(2nd QB drafted behind Alex Smith).

There isn't a young successful QB playing right now that was drafted outside of the first round or second round.
Getting a guy like Herbert, Murray, or Josh Allen is the quickest way to turn around a franchise.

Drafting a QB is only a piece of the puzzle.
You have draft the guy who can play in your system and develop him.

Can't pass on a QB if you need one.