Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=Mattyk;983449]We'd still be better off with his pass rushing abilities.

We also won without Fred Davis and a number of key guys. [B] Are they any less valuable going forward?[/B][/quote]

Of course not. I am not saying cut them.
What I am fearful of is next season undervaluing guys that did the grunt work that might not have the sexy stats attached to their name.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=Defensewins;983454]Of course not. I am not saying cut them.
What I am fearful of is next season undervaluing guys that did the grunt work that might not have the sexy stats attached to their name.[/quote]

I didn't say cut them either. Just saying we'd be better off with them even though we did manage to have success without them.

I think Jackson will be a priority to keep around with Rak coming back off an injury. He's a RFA, so we'll be able to match any offers if he does indeed hit the market.

I love what he's done this year, he's made some plays that I don't think Rak would make, and I think you could also say that Rak has shown he's able to make plays that Jackson probably can't.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=Mattyk;983458]I didn't say cut them either. Just saying we'd be better off with them even though we did manage to have success without them.

I think Jackson will be a priority to keep around with Rak coming back off an injury. He's a RFA, so we'll be able to match any offers if he does indeed hit the market.

I love what he's done this year, [B]he's made some plays that I don't think Rak would make, and I think you could also say that Rak has shown he's able to make plays that Jackson probably can't.[/B][/quote]

Agreed. They have completely different styles and talent; and one is not better then the other, just different. The same can be said for Jarvis Jenkins and Carricker; Fred Davis and Logan Paulsen. Nex season they should all share playing time, not have one dominate the playing time over another.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/quote]

Easy, Rob Jackson! Who needs D Hall when we got Domonique Johnson?!

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/quote]

I'm curious to know what he is as well, I know it's his 4th year in the league but I'm not sure whether the uncapped year set him back a year in terms of RFA/UFA status.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

[B]So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/B][/quote]

Trent Williams cap number goes down from $13million this season to $6.6Million next season. That will create cap space enough to keep both if you wanted to.
Cutting Jamaal Brown will free up another $1M.
I really like DHall and I want to keep him, but not at $8.3M cap number next year. Plus his release fee is a tiny $300K.
He is the prime candidate to renegotiate a new deal so we can free up some more cap space.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

Orakpo doesn't have as many interceptions because coaches recognize his talents as a pass rusher are so significant that he's asked to rush the passer more often than Jackson is.

Jackson is a very valuable depth player, not much more. I'd let him walk if he gets offered a big deal. Orakpo is a pass rushing threat, not many players like that out there.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/quote]


Rob Jackson. D. Hall is not worth what his cap number will be next near. Not even by a long shot.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

i think you've got to scrap both of them in order to retain jammal brown

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/quote]

ROB JACKSON!!! DHall will go back to being DHall soon and make everyone go "Yeah, cut him"

[QUOTE=los panda;983481]i think you've got to scrap both of them in order to retain jammal brown[/QUOTE]

Brown is essential to the pistol play and the read-option formation.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;983507]Brown is essential to the pistol play and the read-option formation.[/quote]



:laughing2

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=Defensewins;983442]If a pass rush and sacks are so "critical" (using your words), why is that of the [B]top 13 teams that led the NFL in sacks in 2012[/B] over half (eight) of them [B]did not even make the playoffs?[/B][/quote]

Sack totals are not critical, but pressuring the quarterback is. The Redskins have been terrible at generating pressure with less than five defenders since Orakpo went down. If they could generate pressure with less defenders, the overall performance of the defense would improve.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=los panda;983481]i think you've got to scrap both of them in order to retain jammal brown[/quote]

:silly: :Smoker:

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;983507]Brown is essential to the pistol play and the read-option formation.[/quote]

That's why they've been holding Brown back.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=Mayor;983310]Maybe I am crazy, but I see Orkapo and Kerrigan excelling at playing as down linemen, Jackson playing great as a coverage LB... so how about the 4-3?

Starters:

DE: Kerrigan, Orkapo
DT: Cofield, Jenkins
LB: Jackson (O), Fletcher*(M), Riley (O)
S: Draft, Draft :(
CB: Hall, Wilson


* - If Fletcher retires then it's a camp toss up

I like the look of that front 7.[/quote]

I agree with that although I'm sure we are in the minority about going back to the 4-3

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/quote]

Jackson. Hall had one good game, Crawford, Minnifield and the draft can replace Hall.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

It's obvious that Jackson has developed into a better all-around OLB than Orakpo. I think Kerrigan has/was too. I'd listen to trade interest for sure. Orakpo doesn't deserve to be traded but, this is a business.

I prefer rak, however more important than anything else to me is how we treat the situation. We've been known to not take care of the people we develop while throwing money at old free agents that don't deliver. With RG3 we can become a destination people want to come to. We new to foster that along with being known to take care of (not overpay) our existing talent while picking up remaining pieces through free agency.

If we offer a fair contract that someone else beats, so be it.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;983546]Jackson. Hall had one good game, Crawford, Minnifield and the draft can replace Hall.[/quote]

I don't know if we can bank on Minnifield or Crawford to replace Hall yet. I don't believe either of them would be able to do what Hall did with Dez Bryant, granted Hall is known to switch forth from awesome to terrible games and so on. BUT we need to find someone better than Hall and all CBs on our roster.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=GridIron26;983558]I don't know if we can bank on Minnifield or Crawford to replace Hall yet. I don't believe either of them would be able to do what Hall did with Dez Bryant, granted Hall is known to switch forth from awesome to terrible games and so on. BUT we need to find someone better than Hall and all CBs on our roster.[/quote]

But the bigger question is Hall worth the money, he would have to restructure. Hall is in the bottom half of starting corners in the league. No way he should be the number one corner on the Redskins.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=los panda;983481]i think you've got to scrap both of them in order to retain jammal brown[/quote]

Agreed. If Brown is gone, who is going to lead the team yoga sessions?

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

This entire thread seems to be a trapped in the moment kind of thread and not looking at the big picture. Jackson has had a good couple of games in a row, it should not warrant letting go one of the top players on the Redskins Defense. Kerrigan has shown flashes but is extremely inconsistent and will be taken out during entire games. Still think we can upgrade one of the 3-4 DE's and would add depth but to think Orakpo's pressence has not been missed this season due to the emergence of Jackson in this run would to me be living in the moment and thinking his play will continue for an entire carreer.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;983460]I keep hearing mixed info on whether he's restricted or not, haven't gotten a 100% answer yet

So you have money to keep either Rob Jackson or D. Hall, you go with...[/quote]

I think Hall would be willing to restructure to be a part of where this franchise is headed. If he won't and you have to choose I would go with R. Jax.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

Minnifield?
LOL
The guy has done nothing yet.
You may as well try to predict next years weather.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

With the success of low round draft picks, this team could start a pipeline of players like Jackson...

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=RGIII;983598]With the success of low round draft picks, this team could start a pipeline of players like Jackson...[/quote]

How could that happen? It's well known that Shanahan is a horrible talent evaluator and, besides, this team is nothing more than a Zorn/Cerrato redux - there's no real youthful talent here.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

Was trying to find the site's excel cap sheets - probably some place obvious, but I can't seem to locate them. Anyone got the link? Just wondering what the last numbers for 2013 were.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;983616]Was trying to find the site's excel cap sheets - probably some place obvious, but I can't seem to locate them. Anyone got the link? Just wondering what the last numbers for 2013 were.[/quote]

Look under the banner

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

^^^ lol ... duh.

I r smert ... reelly i m.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;983594]I think Hall would be willing to restructure to be a part of where this franchise is headed. If he won't and you have to choose I would go with R. Jax.[/quote]

He's said he wants to retire a Skin. We'll see if he means it...

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=The Goat;983676]He's said he wants to retire a Skin. We'll see if he means it...[/quote]

What I would like to see is Hall putting on 10-15 pounds and becoming our starting free safety.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

My concern with Orakpo is if he's going to be that pass rush guy, then his sack total should be in the 15-17 range. Otherwise, he needs to develop coverage skills to offset lack of sacks.

Also, Kerrigan is beginning to learn how to play without Orakpo. So the idea that he "frees up" Kerrigan may have been truer at the beginning of the season, than it is now.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

It's excellent that Rob Jackson is there for depth purposes. But he's an overall better OLB in the 3-4 than Orakpo. I say that because he's not as good a pass rusher as Orakpo, but he's certainly better in coverage and has the talent to rush the passer from the edge effectively even if it's not as good as Orakpo.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=los panda;983719]kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=12thMan;983708]My concern with Orakpo is if he's going to be that pass rush guy, then his sack total should be in the 15-17 range. Otherwise, he needs to develop coverage skills to offset lack of sacks.

Also, Kerrigan is beginning to learn how to play without Orakpo. So the idea that he "frees up" Kerrigan may have been truer at the beginning of the season, than it is now.[/quote]

Only 4 players in the league had 15 or more sacks in the league this year. So youre saying if orakpo is going to be a pass rusher, he has to be in the top 4 in the league? That pretty absurd. Most GOOD pass rushers average 10-11 in a season.

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=los panda;983719]kerrigan in 2011: 7.5 sacks w orakpo
kerrigan in 2012: 8.5 sacks w/o orakpo[/quote]

:doh:

Kerrigan, a rookie with Orakpo gets 1 sack, ONE(!) Sack less than he does as a 2nd year player without him. Not exactly staggering. All rookies typically get better from year 1 to year 2. You could also look at it as what could Kerrigan do in his 2nd year WITH Orakpo?!?

Re: Is there room for Orakpo and Rob Jackson?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;983730]Only 4 players in the league had 15 or more sacks in the league this year. So youre saying if orakpo is going to be a pass rusher, he has to be in the top 4 in the league? That pretty absurd. Most GOOD pass rushers average 10-11 in a season.[/quote]

He's a first round pick for crying out loud and there are some who say he's an elite talent. He has the potential to be in the 15 sack echelon. Time to live up to it.