Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=The Goat;936629]I'm surprised nobody has balked at the premise of the thread (title). Why on earth would an evaluation of Shanahan NOT begin two years ago...unless you're a total homer for Shanahan and want to "throw out the bad data?"

Mike has made myriad mistakes over the last two years. Every decision at QB has been errant up to RGIII. McNabb was a mistake. Rex a mistake. Beck a mistake. Campbell today is better than any of them so the honest observer would add getting rid of him was a mistake. Jamaal Brown was a huge mistake.

And that's just on the roster side. Bringing his kiddo (Kyle) was a mistake, as was not upgrading defensive coordinator at the first possible chance e.g. Wade Phillips goes to Houston and makes one of the worst defenses in the league (right there w/ the Skins after the 3-4 switch) to a top 5 defense in ONE year. Mike and Wade already worked together so why didn't Wade come aboard?

It's also noteworthy that our two best targets on offense (Davis and Moss) are guys Mike inherited, rather than developed.

Mike gets credit for making the team younger (depth) and RGIII. Hopefully things come together this year and we see results, but as someone else said I won't be the least bit surprised if Mike never wins the division or a playoff game in Washington.[/quote]
So to give some insight into the 'pass' that I give Shanahan for the past two years it's based on a couple of major circumstances.

1. The final 2009 roster that he inherited was probably one of the worst in the entire NFL. Just for context our leading rusher that day was Quinton Ganther. Our leading receiver, Malcolm Kelly, our second leading tackler was Kareem Moore.. Our WR depth chart was Moss, Randle-El, Thomas, Kelly and former great Marko Mitchell. Our RB were Quinton Ganther and Marcus Mason. Our OL that day was Stephon Heyer, Dockery, Rabach, Edwin Williams and Levi Jones. Our DL featured Andre Carter, Phillip Daniels, Corneilus Griffin, Albert Haynesworth, Renaldo Wynn and Anthony Montgomery-ALL of which are now out of the league.

Matter of fact 33 of the 53 man roster on the final day of that season are no longer in the NFL. Hell, even 10 of the 12 on our injured reserve are out of the league! (only Doughty and Rinehart remain) There was not much to build on at all and only 2 top level players in Rak and Fletcher. A complete overhaul was needed. Gibbs left Zorn an old, mismatched roster that was built for a 2008 playoff run but no long term sustainability. That's why the comparisons to the Lions and 49ers are flawed, they had SOMETHING to build off of. This was a 3-4 year project to begin with.

Quick final note to add, from the 5 draft classes that preceded Shanahan there are a total of 4(!!!) players on the 2012 roster. Reed Doughty, Fred Davis, Rob Jackson and Brian Orakpo. 4 players from 5 classes and only 2 starters. By far the worst in the league.

2. This is the first fully functional offseason of his tenure. 2010 had stunted free agency because of the labor discord and 2011 of course had the lockout and no offseason program. For most teams it didn't have the same impact as it did with us but don't discount the time that was missed. Even this offseason was impacted by the cap penalties, but that was self inflicted.

Those are the major factors of why I give the coaching staff a 'pass' from the previous two years. No question mistakes were made. Campbell could have been retained to play out his contract rather than wasting time and picks/money on McNabb, Rex and Beck. They probably could have done a complete housecleaning in 2010 and not tried to 'go for it' with old retreads like Willie Parker, Larry Johnson and Joey Galloway. The Jammal Brown debacle could have been avoided. For the coaching side, I've got no issues with Kyle YET-but let's see what he does now that he has talent that can execute his scheme. Haslett has been fine, we improved in '11 and should do so again in '12.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

I think this team has made significant strides in organization and acquiring talent for long term success. As others have noted, the prima donnas are gone. Universally, the players comment on the fairness of the coach in all competitions.

The Shannies have made a couple of their own blunders, McNabb being the most obvious one. Grossman/Beck? ehhh. Not a lot of options out there last year and certainly no one for whom it was worth trading the farm. At the same time, the McNabb fall-out put them in a hole of their own making as to the QB.

Personally, I think the rot was deep in the organization when Shanny got here and that it was due to Mr. Cerrato. An aging team with talent needed to be rebuilt both in terms of its depth and in terms of the culture of favoritism that seemed to exist within the building. I mean, if it was obvious to the fans, I would imagine it was pretty obvious to the players. How many times did we comments from departing players during the Cerrato era "they'll value guys outside the team more than the guys who grew up here" (I think that was a pretty close quote from either Antonio Pierce or Ryan Clark).

As others have said, it is now all up to Shanny's roll of the dice with RGIII. Barring the wheels coming off the machine (which I think highly unlikely), I think Shanahan has guarranteed he gets his 5 years at this point.

I am optimistic. I think, though slighty less talented than the team he inherited, Shanahan has built a younger, deeper team that has talent [I]and[/I] depth. The top 22 may not be as talented as the team he inherited, but I think the top 40 are much, much more talented than the top 40 of the team he got.

Wins and losses are the bottom line and Shanahan has yet to produce that. Personally, I think this is the year he does. We play a tough, tough schedule so I don't think we make 12 wins, but I think double digit wins are attainable [I]if[/I] RGIII puts in a year as good as or better than A. Dalton did last year. We don't need Cam Newton numbers but we do need solid play. I believe RGIII will do that based on what I have seen.

Now, if you pardon me, I have a whole gallon of kool-aid to finish.

P.S. - It's all Vinny's fault.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=Paintrain;936658]So to give some insight into the 'pass' that I give Shanahan for the past two years it's based on a couple of major circumstances.

1. The final 2009 roster that he inherited was probably one of the worst in the entire NFL. Just for context our leading rusher that day was Quinton Ganther. Our leading receiver, Malcolm Kelly, our second leading tackler was Kareem Moore.. Our WR depth chart was Moss, Randle-El, Thomas, Kelly and former great Marko Mitchell. Our RB were Quinton Ganther and Marcus Mason. Our OL that day was Stephon Heyer, Dockery, Rabach, Edwin Williams and Levi Jones. Our DL featured Andre Carter, Phillip Daniels, Corneilus Griffin, Albert Haynesworth, Renaldo Wynn and Anthony Montgomery-ALL of which are now out of the league.

Matter of fact 33 of the 53 man roster on the final day of that season are no longer in the NFL. Hell, even 10 of the 12 on our injured reserve are out of the league! (only Doughty and Rinehart remain) There was not much to build on at all and only 2 top level players in Rak and Fletcher. A complete overhaul was needed. Gibbs left Zorn an old, mismatched roster that was built for a 2008 playoff run but no long term sustainability. That's why the comparisons to the Lions and 49ers are flawed, they had SOMETHING to build off of. This was a 3-4 year project to begin with.

Quick final note to add, from the 5 draft classes that preceded Shanahan there are a total of 4(!!!) players on the 2012 roster. Reed Doughty, Fred Davis, Rob Jackson and Brian Orakpo. 4 players from 5 classes and only 2 starters. By far the worst in the league.

2. This is the first fully functional offseason of his tenure. 2010 had stunted free agency because of the labor discord and 2011 of course had the lockout and no offseason program. For most teams it didn't have the same impact as it did with us but don't discount the time that was missed. Even this offseason was impacted by the cap penalties, but that was self inflicted.

Those are the major factors of why I give the coaching staff a 'pass' from the previous two years. No question mistakes were made. Campbell could have been retained to play out his contract rather than wasting time and picks/money on McNabb, Rex and Beck. They probably could have done a complete housecleaning in 2010 and not tried to 'go for it' with old retreads like Willie Parker, Larry Johnson and Joey Galloway. The Jammal Brown debacle could have been avoided. For the coaching side, I've got no issues with Kyle YET-but let's see what he does now that he has talent that can execute his scheme. Haslett has been fine, we improved in '11 and should do so again in '12.[/quote]

Really good post. I knew Shanallen inherited a very poor team, but those numbers are downright scary from the 09' roster and the draft classes that preceded this regime.

Here is an interesting article that could lend some hope as well.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/09/04/redskins-wins-in-2012-how-many-you-got/]Redskins wins in 2012: How many you got?[/url]

Given how close we were in so many games, and we did it with a turnover machine at QB. Rex could move the ball, but when it comes to the redzone, you need one of three things imo (All three would be near unstoppable in the redzone)

1) You need a tall receiver to go up and make a catch over the DB's. We didnt have that.

2) You need a QB with a gunslinger arm. So they can fit the ball into tight spaces since the end zone brings a lot less space for the DB's to cover. Grossmans major problem, he tried to be Brett Favre while possessing a noodle arm. Interception, here I come.

3) You need a dominant power running OL. Which will most likely never happen in a ZBS.

Im intentionally not including a running attack from the QB since I want RG3 to stay healthy. Cam Newton/Tim Tebow proved that can work as well.

We had zero of 3 last year. If RG3 develops, we have 1 of 3, and if Briscoe develops, we may have a second. He showed some of that last year in Tampa.

With a QB like Grossman, you need to hit on a whole lot of long distance TD's because he wont get it done on a regular basis in the red zone, he just doesnt have the arm. Not to mention that he doesnt have the arm to connect on many long passes.

Im still not predicting a winning season, but if we stay relatively healthy, I believe 8-8 or close is realistic.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=The Goat;936629]I'm surprised nobody has balked at the premise of the thread (title). Why on earth would an evaluation of Shanahan NOT begin two years ago...unless you're a total homer for Shanahan and want to "throw out the bad data?"[/quote]My view is that drafting a rookie QB effectively buys the HC at least 2 seasons for the sake of the QBs development and organizational stability.

I'm ready to kick back and enjoy the show.
I love Griffin as a prospect and I'm excited to see what Kyle can do with him.
Bring on the pistol formation and the read-option baby!

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=Mattyk;936656]My hopeless optimism must be kicking in, I think this team can go 9-7 and be in the wildcard hunt.[/quote]

I'm with you and I don't consider it hopeless optimism:

5 wins in 2011
+1 win from our young players developing
+3 wins because we now have a QB and won't start Beck

sum: 9 wins

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=The Goat;936629]I'm surprised nobody has balked at the premise of the thread (title). Why on earth would an evaluation of Shanahan NOT begin two years ago...unless you're a total homer for Shanahan and want to "throw out the bad data?"

Mike has made myriad mistakes over the last two years. Every decision at QB has been errant up to RGIII. McNabb was a mistake. Rex a mistake. Beck a mistake. Campbell today is better than any of them so the honest observer would add getting rid of him was a mistake. Jamaal Brown was a huge mistake.

And that's just on the roster side. Bringing his kiddo (Kyle) was a mistake, as was not upgrading defensive coordinator at the first possible chance e.g. Wade Phillips goes to Houston and makes one of the worst defenses in the league (right there w/ the Skins after the 3-4 switch) to a top 5 defense in ONE year. Mike and Wade already worked together so why didn't Wade come aboard?

It's also noteworthy that our two best targets on offense (Davis and Moss) are guys Mike inherited, rather than developed.

Mike gets credit for making the team younger (depth) and RGIII. Hopefully things come together this year and we see results, but as someone else said I won't be the least bit surprised if Mike never wins the division or a playoff game in Washington.[/quote]


The thing is about the QB situation, what could he have done differently that would have been significant? Because of the dearth of talent on the team, it's not like we could have thrown in someone else and been instant playoff contenders. Shanny has done a great job improving our front 7 on D without breaking the bank, and that process takes time. We would have been set at secondary if Landry had stayed healthy and if we weren't handcuffed by that absurd DHall contract.

There are certainly areas of the team lacking talent, but he just hasn't had the ammunition to address them all in the short time he's been here. Okay, I'll concede we could have used the picks we gave up for mcnabb and jammal, but if brown had been able to stay healthy that would have been a great move to get a 1st round pick RT.

Bottom line: like everyone's said, everything he's done so far pales in comparison to the RG3 move. He's made a hell of a lot better decisions than Vinny, but his career still rests with RG3's success or failure

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

We have a tough schedule this year but 9-7 doesn't seem that farfetched to me. We beat the SB champion Giants twice last year and that doesn't happen very often. We should be much improved this year and if our online can get and stay healthy that will be a definite plus. Also can anyone remember having faith in our QB to get the job done last year? Even with Cousins I feel better about the position and he's a backup.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=Paintrain;936658]So to give some insight into the 'pass' that I give Shanahan for the past two years it's based on a couple of major circumstances.

1. The final 2009 roster that he inherited was probably one of the worst in the entire NFL. Just for context our leading rusher that day was Quinton Ganther. Our leading receiver, Malcolm Kelly, our second leading tackler was Kareem Moore.. Our WR depth chart was Moss, Randle-El, Thomas, Kelly and former great Marko Mitchell. Our RB were Quinton Ganther and Marcus Mason. Our OL that day was Stephon Heyer, Dockery, Rabach, Edwin Williams and Levi Jones. Our DL featured Andre Carter, Phillip Daniels, Corneilus Griffin, Albert Haynesworth, Renaldo Wynn and Anthony Montgomery-ALL of which are now out of the league.

Matter of fact 33 of the 53 man roster on the final day of that season are no longer in the NFL. Hell, even 10 of the 12 on our injured reserve are out of the league! (only Doughty and Rinehart remain) There was not much to build on at all and only 2 top level players in Rak and Fletcher. A complete overhaul was needed. Gibbs left Zorn an old, mismatched roster that was built for a 2008 playoff run but no long term sustainability. That's why the comparisons to the Lions and 49ers are flawed, they had SOMETHING to build off of. This was a 3-4 year project to begin with.

Quick final note to add, from the 5 draft classes that preceded Shanahan there are a total of 4(!!!) players on the 2012 roster. Reed Doughty, Fred Davis, Rob Jackson and Brian Orakpo. 4 players from 5 classes and only 2 starters. By far the worst in the league.

2. This is the first fully functional offseason of his tenure. 2010 had stunted free agency because of the labor discord and 2011 of course had the lockout and no offseason program. For most teams it didn't have the same impact as it did with us but don't discount the time that was missed. Even this offseason was impacted by the cap penalties, but that was self inflicted.

Those are the major factors of why I give the coaching staff a 'pass' from the previous two years. No question mistakes were made. Campbell could have been retained to play out his contract rather than wasting time and picks/money on McNabb, Rex and Beck. They probably could have done a complete housecleaning in 2010 and not tried to 'go for it' with old retreads like Willie Parker, Larry Johnson and Joey Galloway. The Jammal Brown debacle could have been avoided. For the coaching side, I've got no issues with Kyle YET-but let's see what he does now that he has talent that can execute his scheme. Haslett has been fine, we improved in '11 and should do so again in '12.[/quote]

It's a good post, even if we disagree on Mike's approach to the rebuild.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;936613]I have a Question.... Who really cares about jc being a redskin anymore???[/quote]

Fans who can't let sh*t go, we have a lot of them.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

I look at the last 2 years as the team needing to take a couple of steps back in order to move forward.

This is the year I'm expecting that step forward in the win column.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

Shanahan told Danny it would take 5 years to reboot the franchise. I am pretty much in agreement with that concept. I don't give Shanahan a "pass" for his first two years but I, as Matty said, sometimes you gotta step back. He gutted his original roster and completely changed the franchise's approach to roster building. Along the way, quality players have been let go and other acquisitions have not lived up to expectations. At the same time, I believe that the foundation for long term winning may have been laid.

For me, this is the year for Shanahan to really show "the step forward". I am hopeful that it is. Between our schedule, division and rookie QB, however, I think double digit wins would be too much to ask. 8-8, 9-7, on the other hand seems attainable.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=30gut;936631]Lol, you mad huh?
Your perception of the events around Jason Campbell are skewed beyond belief.

-HTTR[/quote]

Last I'll say on the matter because no one else wants to read an off topic derail about Campbell: I know its hard for Campbell fans to admit they were wrong but He's a backup in a league where Kolb and Skelton are competing for a starting spot.

If that doesn't clue you I don't know what else to say...

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=44 goes 50 gut;936710]Last I'll say on the matter because no one else wants to read an off topic derail about Campbell: I know its hard for Campbell fans to admit they were wrong but He's a backup in a league where Kolb and Skelton are competing for a starting spot.

If that doesn't clue you I don't know what else to say...[/quote]

That is really not a fair statement CHI has a better QB situation then AZ. I am fairly positive JC would start over Kolb and/or Skelton if he played on AZ.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

Campbell will never be more than a mediocre QB - whether as a starter or back-up. IMHO - Shanny saw that pretty quickly and hoped for better with McNabb. Unfortunately, McNabb turned out to be not even mediocre which set us back substantially. Shanallen should have recognized it but didn't. Regardless, we would still need a QB coming into this draft. Bottom line, whatever took us to getting a guy like RG3, I am incredibly happy where we have ended it up.

Past failed QB's are like former girlfriends you break it off with - you had some laughs, you learn some stuff, and maybe keep some pleasant memories, but, ultimately, when the right one comes along, you just don't care about them.

RGIII is here. I just don't care about those who went before.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;936736]Campbell will never be more than a mediocre QB - whether as a starter or back-up. IMHO - Shanny saw that pretty quickly and hoped for better with McNabb. Unfortunately, McNabb turned out to be not even mediocre which set us back substantially. Shanallen should have recognized it but didn't. Regardless, we would still need a QB coming into this draft. Bottom line, whatever took us to getting a guy like RG3, I am incredibly happy where we have ended it up.

[B]Past failed QB's are like former girlfriends you break it off with - you had some laughs, you learn some stuff, and maybe keep some pleasant memories, but, ultimately, when the right one comes along, you just don't care about them.

RGIII is here. I just don't care about those who went before.[/quote][/B]

Well said.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=44 goes 50 gut;936710]Last I'll say on the matter because no one else wants to read an off topic derail about Campbell.[/quote]Then don't belly aching over him, lol

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

So are we going to the regular season with one fullback?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=HailGreen28;936766]So are we going to the regular season with one fullback?[/quote]you bet your boots we are.

did we keep a backup for sellers?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=HailGreen28;936766]So are we going to the regular season with one fullback?[/quote]


If I had to guess, I figure they will put Paul there occasionally.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;936774]If I had to guess, I figure they will put Paul there occasionally.[/quote]

Royster

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;936781]Royster[/quote]

Thx ment Royster keys on keyboard keep sticking.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;936783]Thx ment Royster keys on keyboard keep sticking.[/quote]

Hahaha I've got to remember to use that line from now on.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=mbedner3420;936797]Hahaha I've got to remember to use that line from now on.[/quote]Cheers to NYCSkinfan - That line reminds me of this dialogue:


Dr. Horrible (trying to please Penny): I wanna do great things, you know? I wanna be an achiever, like Bad Horse.

Penny (shocked): The Thoroughbred of Sin?

Dr. Horrible: I meant Ghandi.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument because Shanahan thought he was inheriting a winning, though underachieving team when he took the job. He could have taken a lot of different jobs that weren't the Redskins, but ultimately, his best chance for a quick turnaround was in the wake of Zorn's blunder. Obviously, if he we were as far away as people are claiming we were, he would have at least interviewed for the Buffalo or Seattle jobs. There was simply more immediate upside here. That's why he took the job in the first place.

I also don't see how it matters that pretty much no one from the 2009 team is in the league today, because contrary to popular belief, Mike Shanahan was not looking for the roster that would put him in the best position to win in 2012. That obviously wouldn't have been the Redskins, but the pieces for the quick turnaround (Fletcher, Haynesworth, Landry, Rogers, Cooley, Portis, Moss) were in place, otherwise, why the heck go after McNabb? The idea that the Redskins were expected to return to the playoffs in 2010 is the only reasonable way to view this.

We all picked the Redskins to go to the playoffs in the McNabb year. John Clayton picked the Redskins to go to the playoffs then. I did as well. It's 100% hindsight to claim Shanahan inherited the worst roster ever. Too many knowledgable people thought Zorn's roster + Shanahan's coaching and player acquisition = playoffs. It wasn't the former part of the equation we all had wrong. It was the latter.

If we keep proper context, you can't explain the last two years as being a result of Vinny's ineptitude, because he's been gone too long (although it's obvious he was never helping things).

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

He did interview with the Bills

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

Interview or "interview" in the Bill Cowher sense?

I seem to remember that insiders knew Shanahan would be the coach here before Zorn was fired.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936816]I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument because Shanahan thought he was inheriting a winning, though underachieving team when he took the job. He could have taken a lot of different jobs that weren't the Redskins, but ultimately, his best chance for a quick turnaround was in the wake of Zorn's blunder. Obviously, if he we were as far away as people are claiming we were, he would have at least interviewed for the Buffalo or Seattle jobs. There was simply more immediate upside here. That's why he took the job in the first place.

I also don't see how it matters that pretty much no one from the 2009 team is in the league today, because contrary to popular belief, Mike Shanahan was not looking for the roster that would put him in the best position to win in 2012. That obviously wouldn't have been the Redskins, but the pieces for the quick turnaround (Fletcher, Haynesworth, Landry, Rogers, Cooley, Portis, Moss) were in place, otherwise, why the heck go after McNabb? The idea that the Redskins were expected to return to the playoffs in 2010 is the only reasonable way to view this.

We all picked the Redskins to go to the playoffs in the McNabb year. John Clayton picked the Redskins to go to the playoffs then. I did as well. It's 100% hindsight to claim Shanahan inherited the worst roster ever. Too many knowledgable people thought Zorn's roster + Shanahan's coaching and player acquisition = playoffs. It wasn't the former part of the equation we all had wrong. It was the latter.

If we keep proper context, you can't explain the last two years as being a result of Vinny's ineptitude, because he's been gone too long (although it's obvious he was never helping things).[/quote]

That's the insightful, depressing GTripp I know!

In all seriousness though, fantastic post. Bravo.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936819]Interview or "interview" in the Bill Cowher sense?

I seem to remember that insiders knew Shanahan would be the coach here before Zorn was fired.[/quote]

He legit interviewed. People can say they knew only because they knew Snyder would not be "outbid" but Shanahan didn't know. He had some reservations.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936816]I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument~(good post follows)[/quote]Yeah.
Its wierd.
It seems that the fan optimism for Mike Shanahan is cloaked in a bit of misremembering or revisionism.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

The roster he inherited was not "worst ever" talented, it had talent. It had no depth and was aging. I agree that Shanny thought he could win with the talent on hand - hence, McNabb.

I think, however, Shanny also said what surprised him was the lack of depth.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936819]Interview or "interview" in the Bill Cowher sense?

I seem to remember that insiders knew Shanahan would be the coach here before Zorn was fired.[/quote]

That's exactly right. Ceratto and Snyder met with SHanahan in Denver during the 2009 season after a close, yet embarrassing loss to the Detroit Lions. Shanahan told Snyder that even if he did come in, there was nothing he could do because it was in season. It was terrible how the undermined Zorn like that.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;936854]The roster he inherited was not "worst ever" talented, it had talent. It had no depth and was aging. I agree that Shanny thought he could win with the talent on hand - hence, McNabb.

I think, however, Shanny also said what surprised him was the lack of depth.[/quote]

pushaw -- Depth is overrated.







[/sarcasm]

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;936977]That's exactly right. Ceratto and Snyder met with SHanahan in Denver during the 2009 season after a close, yet embarrassing loss to the Detroit Lions. Shanahan told Snyder that even if he did come in, there was nothing he could do because it was in season. It was terrible how the undermined Zorn like that.[/quote]Yup.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/washington-redskins-how-daniel-snyder-found-his-man-in-mike-shanahan/2011/09/07/gIQA1D0oIK_story.html"]Washington Post, by Mike Wise: How Daniel Snyder found his man in Mike Shanahan[/URL]

On a Sunday evening nearly two years ago, Daniel Snyder hit his nadir with the Washington Redskins. Trudging down the stairwell of one of his private planes in the hangar of the Dulles Jet Center, burgundy-and-gold striped necktie askew, he mouthed an expletive passengers behind him could clearly hear. In that moment, hours after the Redskins had lost to the lowly Lions — the worst team in pro football — in Detroit, Snyder resembled less of an NFL owner than an exasperated day trader.

“He was as stressed out and lost as I’d ever seen him,” said an associate of Snyder, who recounted the scene.” It was the bottom for all of us, but it was mostly the bottom for him.”

On the way to missing the playoffs for the eighth time in his 11 seasons as Redskins owner, Snyder retreated to the pilot’s lounge inside the hangar with two of his closest advisers at the time, Dave Donovan, the team’s chief operating officer, and Karl Swanson, Snyder’s senior vice president of public relations. Vinny Cerrato, the executive vice president of personnel and Snyder’s right-hand man, joined them after he had taken the team plane home with the players and their beleaguered coach, Jim Zorn.

(read more at link above)

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

It was also the oldest roster in the NFL and they were coming off a 4-12 season...just saying.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

Once Mike Shanahan retires who becomes the head coach, Haslett or Kyle Shanahan?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;937375]Once Mike Shanahan retires who becomes the head coach, Haslett or Kyle Shanahan?[/quote]

Kyle, of course. That is if Shanny retires willingly. If he is let go, Id have to think that Kyle would have to pack his bags as well, being so intimately involved with the offense, it would basically be the franchise taking off one pair of dirty socks only to put another dirty pair of socks back on.

Id look for us to sign another high profile college coach if the Shanahan plan doesnt pan out, man.........

But I have all faith that it will.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=skinsfan69;936624]It's all going to come down to whether or not RG3 is a top QB. They have to hit on RG3 and hit big.[/quote]


I agree with this 98%. They could miss on RGIII and still have a chance to salvage their coaching careers and the teams fortunes. That "chance" being Kirk Cousins. If by some odd happenings that RGIII fails and Kirk steps in and blows up, then nobody is going to remember the RGIII bust of a trade. They're just going to remember getting a all-pro QB in the 4th round.

Bottom line is that they need to hit big on one of the 2 QBs drafted this year.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=mredskins;936730]That is really not a fair statement CHI has a better QB situation then AZ. I am fairly positive JC would start over Kolb and/or Skelton if he played on AZ.[/quote]

That's exactly my point, if he was good enough to start then someone... like AZ would have signed him this off season, or they would trade for him now once realizing their mistake.

Prima facia: the league considers him a backup QB.

[QUOTE=44 goes 50 gut;937835]That's exactly my point, if he was good enough to start then someone... like AZ would have signed him this off season, or they would trade for him now once realizing their mistake.

Prima facia: the league considers him a backup QB.[/QUOTE]

You can only put so much money into one position. AZ hamstrung themselves when they signed Kolb. No team/FO would bring in another mid level starter(which is how I describe Campbell) just one year after doing the deal AZ did.

Don't see it as prima facia anything.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936816]I'm rejecting the "worst roster ever" argument because Shanahan thought he was inheriting a winning, though underachieving team when he took the job.

If we keep proper context, you can't explain the last two years as being a result of Vinny's ineptitude, because he's been gone too long (although it's obvious he was never helping things).[/quote]

1) Shanahan realized his mistake and changed direction in year 2 (to his credit) A LOT OF YOU thought they could win now with McNabb... There were people here talking super bowl... Many of you were shouting down anyone who (correctly) surmised that win now was a bad idea, and giving away more draft picks for big name cast offs was a Dan Snyder like Move (see 1b). Mistakes happen, we are all human, I was not a supporter of Shanahans first year, and I didn't want them to hire him... None the less I am impressed with the rebuild in progress and support the idea that he should get about two more seasons, as long as he gets SOME progress.

1b) the scenario where Snyder pushed for McNabb has been floated by credible Journalists and personally I suspect that they had a hand shake deal with Shanahan to try and "win now" with the understanding that if it didn't work they would rebuild the following year.. McNabb WIlly Parker and Larry Johnson all had that patented Snyder big name/washed up feel.

2) regardless of how poorly he evaluated in the first year (or optimistically; after all high performers tend to think they can make things happen) Shanahan changed his mind, admitted his mistakes, moved on, and made the correct determination the next year. But we don't need that to understand what happened with the teams talent level. The most basic evaluation of his roster after year one should conclude that he had no depth at any position except TE, that he had problematic/old/washed up/overpaid by the previous regime starters in almost every key position. They literally had to tear down and were losing more players.

The assessment that he should have restocked the roster in 2 years is just wishful thinking at best. It is incredibly obvious that they want to upgrade positions (like Safety and CB) but simply haven't had the free agents or draft picks. Meanwhile none of the late round flyers have turned out to be diamonds in the rough.

I can't stand this ignorant fan sentiment that just because they brought in some temporary patch or warm body that the guy is actually regarded as an upgrade by Shanahan. A lot of moves are simply lateral sidegrades or even DOWNGRADES due to losing players. This isn't Madden franchise mode or fantasy football where every move is an upgrade. And the prevailing fan sentiment about this is face palm worthy.

In the real world they are trying to upgrade WHILE ALSO trying to compensate for the natural losses of talent, and moves not panning out. In the real world everyone else is trying to win as well. It's like saying next year I'm going to make my car faster to win races... but it's not that easy everyone else is making their car faster too :doh: