Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

I think the Redskins will be fine at left guard. We have a few interior linemen that can play while Lichtensteiger gets ready for the season opener. I'm anxious to see what Mike Shanahan is going to do at right tackle though.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

I'm telling you, Compton is the next Hall of Famer.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;927742]Might as well put a shaggy carpet in the o-line...at least with the carpet, there's a chance that a player might trip.[/quote]

:laughing2

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

No update on JB. MRI tonight, met with his own doctor earlier (which is what my info is largely based on)

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

This really gets me thinking about why we drafted Kirk Cousins...... I dont think we are good enough to have the luxury of drafting backup quarterbacks we like, we shouldve used this pick on another linemen or DB, I thought this then and think the same now

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;927752]This really gets me thinking about why we drafted Kirk Cousins...... I dont think we are good enough to have the luxury of drafting backup quarterbacks we like, we shouldve used this pick on another linemen or DB, I thought this then and think the same now[/quote]

I'm not enough of a draft junkie to know whether a starting caliber RT was available when we took Cousins. Regardless, Rex was/is likely to be backup this year anyway because he knows the system so well. Cousines was a luxury pick we likely couldn't afford, which will be especially frustrating if the line ends up short a key starter/backup.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

LT Willie Smith
LG Mo Hurt
C Monty
RG Chris Chester
RT Tyler Polumbus


These guys were the starters in the last 4 games for us and they performed well.

So all you chicken littles, remind me again of why we should be panicking?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

There may not have been. People are hoping a six round pick in Compton is the answer. The grass is always greener though when it comes to a pick you think the team should have made instead of the one they did.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;927755]LT Willie Smith
LG Mo Hurt
C Monty
RG Chris Chester
RT Tyler Polumbus


These guys were the starters in the last 4 games for us and they performed well.

So all you chicken littles, remind me again of why we should be panicking?[/quote]

and that was w rex

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

I've never really understood the "I don't know if there were any good linemen at that point in the draft, but we should have taken one anyway" argument

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;927755]LT Willie Smith
LG Mo Hurt
C Monty
RG Chris Chester
RT Tyler Polumbus


These guys were the starters in the last 4 games for us and they performed well.

So all you chicken littles, remind me again of why we should be panicking?[/quote]

Thank you. With that line-up, against Philly, NYG, Minnesota and NE, we gave up seven sacks.

Also, over the course of the year, we gave up as many sacks as Green Bay (41 each) but we also had 40 more passing attempts then they did. [In fairness, We allowed 108 QB hits to their 71].

As someone said, that was with the Statue of Rex and John "Go deep, I'll hit you at the first down marker" Beck. We have a [I]concern[/I] at RT. A body and scheme will be found to make it work.

Day Five of training camp and the sky is most definitely falling.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927759]I've never really understood the "I don't know if there were any good linemen at that point in the draft, but we should have taken one anyway" argument[/quote]

What about the "Brown has been injured since day 1 with the Skins, but this year it will be different" argument or the "RG3 will make the Oline better". Because rookie QB usually have that affect on Olines.

This is completely on Shanny and Bruce. Ive been relatively easy on and supportive of both, but I think its a bit naive to depend on Willie Smith as plan B for a RT who hasn't performed the entire time in the B&G. I dunno, is that an unreasonable view? I'm hoping for the best and by no means think this is the end of season, but jeez its a lil perplexing we wouldn't a have a better plan RT at this point.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

the sky isn't falling, but there is reason to be concerned. our OL isn't super to begin with, and striking a couple starters isn't helpful.

There just wasn't much at OT this year. OTs and CBs will be available next year, which bruce allen has already talked about.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Well in some good news it sounds like TW is having a strong camp.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Who ever thought that 3 words could do so much harm.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927766]Well in some good news it sounds like TW is having a strong camp.[/quote]

Yeah, you gotta like the part where Shanny said that TW is more focused than he's ever been. That doesn't seem like ordinary coach-speak.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Chico23231;927764]What about the "Brown has been injured since day 1 with the Skins, but this year it will be different" argument or the "RG3 will make the Oline better". Because rookie QB usually have that affect on Olines.

This is completely on Shanny and Bruce. Ive been relatively easy on and supportive of both, but I think its a bit naive to depend on Willie Smith as plan B for a RT who hasn't performed the entire time in the B&G. I dunno, is that an unreasonable view? I'm hoping for the best and by no means think this is the end of season, but jeez its a lil perplexing we wouldn't a have a better plan RT at this point.[/quote]

Actually Polumbus would be plan B.

I guess I just don't see the big deal considering we were down 3 starters last year for the last month or so, and the line played arguably their best ball of the season during that stretch.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Lotus;927770]Yeah, you gotta like the part where Shanny said that TW is more focused than he's ever been. That doesn't seem like ordinary coach-speak.[/quote]

Yeah he sounds locked in.

I think Trent is going to be ok as far as far as his off the field stuff. Davis still concerns me, but then again he's a good year away from a big payday so if that doesn't inspire him to lay off the smoke nothing will.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Speaking of Trent, I just found this

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfceast&id=41291]NFL Tuesday Redskins training camp thoughts - ESPN[/url]

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927775]Speaking of Trent, I just found this

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfceast&id=41291]NFL Tuesday Redskins training camp thoughts - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Thanks for sharing, Mattyk.

Trent Williams seems to be coming together. But he's nowhere near where Chris Samuels was heading into his third season in the NFL.

That was an overall informative report.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Mattyk;927775]Speaking of Trent, I just found this

[url=http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nfceast&id=41291]NFL Tuesday Redskins training camp thoughts - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Hail Yeah! Silverback is in the building!

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927759]I've never really understood the "I don't know if there were any good linemen at that point in the draft, but we should have taken one anyway" argument[/quote]Haven't heard this argument.
But, there were good OL prospects.

Whether or not they become good lineman remains to be seen like with any prospect at any position.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

If the guys pegged as your quality depth are starting then who is your depth?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=30gut;927781]Haven't heard this argument.
But, there were good OL prospects.

Whether or not they become good lineman remains to be seen like with any prospect at any position.[/quote]

Drafting an OT instead of Cousins would've made sense too. Doesn't mean that OT would've been any better than Polumbus, Smith, or Black at this point in the season or down the road.

However, that OT could've been just as promising depth-wise as Cousins is.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927759]I've never really understood the "I don't know if there were any good linemen at that point in the draft, but we should have taken one anyway" argument[/quote]

Honestly SS unless guys here are scouts or members of the team, how would any of us really know who fits and what they want out of a player or even who they are targeting as a need? It's football and I don't have enough time with a family, work, and school to tell you who is good to draft in the fourth round.

Basically right now I like the Cousins pick. They tried to fill a need on this team. A decent backup qb was a need and found a guy in cousins who they felt filled the need.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=RGIII;927784]Drafting an OT instead of Cousins would've made sense too. Doesn't mean that OT would've been any better than Polumbus, Smith, or Black at this point in the season or down the road.

However, that OT could've been just as promising depth-wise as Cousins is.[/quote]

And probably more likely to play for us. Not knocking the pick we made... if we didn't think anyone could contribute more to the team then fine.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=RGIII;927784]Drafting an OT instead of Cousins would've made sense too. Doesn't mean that OT would've been any better than Polumbus, Smith, or Black at this point in the season or down the road.

However, that OT could've been just as promising depth-wise as Cousins is.[/quote]Bringing Cousins into the discussion just confuses the discussion with peoples knee jerk desire to defend the Cousins pick so I'm not gonna comment on it.
But, with Jammal Brown's level of play, injury and missed starts an argument could be made that addressing the RT position should have been a higher priority.
I like profootball focus metrics and Jammal Brown had a terrible rating. (-18)
According to PFF Tyler was better then Brown but not by much (-16), but at least Tyler is young and you expect him to improve with playing time and maybe he develops into a league average RT?

But, right now that's just a hope.
And if Tyler is gonna be a starter then where is our quality depth?

Imo finding a more certain solution to the RT situation should have been a much higher priority.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

It comes done to who they thought they were getting a steal on. That's how Shanny has described the pick of cousins. They really liked the guy and he was there so... He's on our football team. It was an area of need that he saw he could fill.

Honestly would a 4th round pick t right now make you feel that much better about our line?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=tryfuhl;927788]And probably more likely to play for us. Not knocking the pick we made... if we didn't think anyone could contribute more to the team then fine.[/quote]

[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hzR2p3nG1XY/SsGIRMS2DjI/AAAAAAAAAB0/825fF-PkL2g/s320/tootsieowl.jpg[/IMG]
The world will never know...

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;927759]I've never really understood the "I don't know if there were any good linemen at that point in the draft, but we should have taken one anyway" argument[/QUOTE]

Drafting for need over BPA is never a good plan.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927791]It comes done to who they thought they were getting a steal on. That's how Shanny has described the pick of cousins. They really liked the guy and he was there so... He's on our football team. It was an area of need that he saw he could fill.

Honestly would a 4th round pick t right now make you feel that much better about our line?[/quote]

I agree. Besides, it too early to tell how this line is gonna gel. Just being positively hopeful.

Maurice Brown
Jamaal Hurt

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927791]Honestly would a 4th round pick t right now make you feel that much better about our line?[/quote]And why not be more specific as to the position? And why limit it to 4th round? How about a 3rd round RT or a 4th round RT both of those would make me feel better about the OL.

take your pick:
[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-round-input:3/dt-by-position-input:ol]2012 NFL Draft Tracker – NFL.com[/url]

Especially when you consider that Mike Shanahan has often found quality starting OL in that range and later.

Hopefully the FO will figure something out and the RT position will not be a liability.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927791]It comes done to who they thought they were getting a steal on. That's how Shanny has described the pick of cousins. They really liked the guy and he was there so... He's on our football team. It was an area of need that he saw he could fill.

[B]Honestly would a 4th round pick t right now make you feel that much better about our line?[/B][/quote]

Personally I think we should have taken OT Bobbie Massie rather than Cousins. As far as I am concerned Massie is a better player than Cousins and he filled a need. I said this much on draft day.

But to answer your question, I still would not be psyched about Massie starting at RT right this second, even if we had drafted him.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=30gut;927790]Bringing Cousins into the discussion just confuses the discussion with peoples knee jerk desire to defend the Cousins pick so I'm not gonna comment on it.
But, with Jammal Brown's level of play, injury and missed starts an argument could be made that addressing the RT position should have been a higher priority.
I like profootball focus metrics and Jammal Brown had a terrible rating. (-18)
According to PFF Tyler was better then Brown but not by much (-16), but at least Tyler is young and you expect him to improve with playing time and maybe he develops into a league average RT?

But, right now that's just a hope.
And if Tyler is gonna be a starter then where is our quality depth?

Imo finding a more certain solution to the RT situation should have been a much higher priority.[/quote]

What knee jerk desire to defend? Is that somehow different from the knee jerk "well we should have drafted an OL there" Never mind that we went OL with the pick before Cousins.

We have had a lot of areas to address over the past two years: needed a franchise caliber LT-drafted Williams; needed to upgrade at WR-drafted Hankerson, signed Garcon and Morgan; needed youth at RB-drafted Helu and Royster; needed help for Orakpo-drafted Kerrigan; needed a franchise QB for the next 15 years (hopefully)-drafted RG3; needed to shore up the offensive interior-signed Kory L. (funny how so many are mourning his injury when just two years ago they thought he was a bum), signed Chester, drafted LeRibeus and Gettis...and so on.

And let's not act like we made no effort to address the OL this off-season through FA. We spoke to Winston, Bell, Mathis. Sucks that they didn't come, sure but it wasn't for lack of trying. Many factors, including the salary cap penalty hurt us. And you could say well we shouldn't added Morgan and Garcon. Well then what do you do, sit around, hope an OT signs with you, and when he doesn't you just assume WRs are there?

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=Lotus;927796]Personally I think we should have taken OT Bobbie Massie rather than Cousins. As far as I am concerned Massie is a better player than Cousins and he filled a need. I said this much on draft day.

But to answer your question, I still would not be psyched about Massie starting at RT right this second, even if we had drafted him.[/quote]

What type of camp is Massie having right now? He's probably getting run over the "Rob Jacksons" of the league...

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=RGIII;927798]What type of camp is Massie having right now? He's probably getting run over the "Rob Jacksons" of the league...[/quote]

I couldn't find a report on his camp. Maybe his is being run over, as you described. That's what you expect from a first week rookie. That's why I said I would not be psyched to start him right now.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;927797]What knee jerk desire to defend? Is that somehow different from the knee jerk "well we should have drafted an OL there" Never mind that we went OL with the pick before Cousins.[/quote]My memory is short but I recall quite clearly the arguments made to defend the Cousins pick and I don't care to re-hash them.
And I made it clear in my previous post that my point wasn't that the Cousin's pick should have been OL.
Rather I explained and was specific that imo RT should have been the priority position for the either the 3rd or the 4th pick.

[quote]And let's not act like we made no effort to address the OL this off-season through FA. We spoke to Winston, Bell, Mathis. Sucks that they didn't come, sure but it wasn't for lack of trying. Many factors, including the salary cap penalty hurt us. And you could say well we shouldn't added Morgan and Garcon. Well then what do you do, sit around, hope an OT signs with you, and when he doesn't you just assume WRs are there?[/quote]C'mon SS really? That's the approach you're gonna take?
Well where did I say there was no effort made?
And of course there factors involved in any FA move.
And to be clear the cap penalty came out prior to FA.
Last I checked though money talks when it comes to getting a deal done.
I'm not behind the scenes I cannot speak to what level of effort went into or didn't go into FA OL.
However, football like most businesses is bottom line.
Judgements are made based on outcomes.
The endstate was Jammal Brown being penciled in as the starting RT despite his performance and injuries.
If you're telling me the FO did everything the could and couldn't find a better RT then Jammal Brown then my response is the FO failed to properly address the RT position.

-httr

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

Full disclosure, I dont feel great about the line and I was hoping that they would address the t and guard spots in FA.

I got on the cousins thing because others brought it up and I don't see why that is really that important now. Because as I see it I don't see any fourth round tackles that would have been anything more this year then depth. Say for example next draft we bring in a day one starting t with our second round pick. In that scenario we still have cousins and a t ready to play next year. Which is most likely where you may want to start playing a fourth round guy.

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=30gut;927795]And why not be more specific as to the position? And why limit it to 4th round? How about a 3rd round RT or a 4th round RT both of those would make me feel better about the OL.

take your pick:
[url=http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-round/dt-by-round-input:3/dt-by-position-input:ol]2012 NFL Draft Tracker – NFL.com[/url]

Especially when you consider that Mike Shanahan has often found quality starting OL in that range and later.

Hopefully the FO will figure something out and the RT position will not be a liability.[/quote]

Your guess is as good as mine, and I would say that Mcribb was seen as a guy who was who they had targeted for that spot for whatever reason. Just bringing in a tackle at that spot for the same of bringing in a tackle doesn't make sense when you have a higher rated player.

I did specify a position in my post with a little lower case t. :)

Re: We've got big trouble on the OL.
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;927801]Because as I see it I don't see any fourth round tackles that would have been anything more this year then depth. Say for example next draft we bring in a day one starting t with our second round pick. In that scenario we still have cousins and a t ready to play next year. Which is most likely where you may want to start playing a fourth round guy.[/quote]But why limit address the RT position only to the 4th round pick?
Why not the 3rd pick? There have been 3rd round RT that came on, start and play well. (Ryan Harris IIRC)

Also, based on Willie Smith and Maurice Hurt level of play both of which were arguable/visibly better then Jammaml Brown. (Which is also backed up by profootball focus advanced metrics)
Then I would argue if an UDFA rookie and a 6-7th round pick graded out better then Jammal Brown chances are pretty good that a 3rd/4th round RT would have been better then JB. (not to mention without a chronic hip condition)