Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923167]We've been going around and around on this for a few years now.

So, the thing that Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts is now constitutional for the nation, making his entire argument one of philosophy. I don't see how the animates the race long-term. Can't wait to hear Romney explain that and keep the base fired up.

Yesterday was a clear win for Americans, Obama and, yes, liberals. We won. It's as simple as that. No spin. See you in November.[/quote]



I am trying really hard to see the twisted logic he is going to use to tell us we can't have Romneycare at the federal level but we can have coverage for children under 24, denial based on pre-existing condition illegal, lower coverage cost for seniors, etc, etc.

Also, didn't Romney say without the feds his state couldn't have Romneycare and is that Romney or Obama on the video?

[YT]-GL6Sw_U1gk[/YT]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923206][QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;923197]In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate :)

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?[/quote]

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

[url=http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/]Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923206][QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;923197]In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate :)

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?[/quote]At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;923208][url=http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/site_docs/slideshows/PremiumTrends2011/PremiumTrends2011.html]Premium Trends 2011[/url]


Here is 2010 data, and I imagine it'll be the same for 2011. I can do this all day long.



Nice try [I]again[/I]. (no seriously not really)



How about you provide proof instead of me doing all your work for you. You want to paint that Mass is paying the highest rates, but fail to see they have the highest income AND that they actually pay less than most states as a percentage of income.[/QUOTE]

Crickets.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=HailGreen28;923212][quote=12thMan;923206]At this point, we're screwed either way. Used to be, Republicans gave too much corporate welfare rather than creating jobs, and Democrats gave too much individual welfare rather than creating jobs.

Now Obama, like Bush, does both. Bush's big spending on everything including the prescription drug deal, and Obama's big spending and working for the health insurance companies and BP. Romney is no better.

I don't see any victory for Americans in the health care mandate being upheld. Just victory for the insurance industry.[/quote]

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923206][QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;923197]In the spirit of Chris Christie opening up sportsbooks in NJ, the SS33 Presidential Election window is still open for those over-confident souls who wish to donate :)

and I promise no tweets in Nov with b****s or m********r references.[/QUOTE

I'm by no means over-confident. But as of today, I don't see Romney's path to victory and neither does his campaign.

What's the bet anyway?[/quote]you call the stakes, saden and I are in for $100.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923223][quote=12thMan;923206]you call the stakes, saden and I are in for $100.[/quote]

Man you boys are rich. I just bought a brand new grill:) Let me sit on this for a week. I'm inclined to pass although I see Obama taking 303 EV.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923218][quote=HailGreen28;923212]

Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.[/quote]"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans
- Obamacare federal mandate (read unfunded mandate) crushes state budgets.
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: [URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidshaywitz/2012/06/01/why-we-shouldnt-dismiss-death-panels-as-pure-demagoguery/"]End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes[/URL]

We all have first-hand stories of bad healthcare experiences, what everyone needs to ask is has gov't involvement helped or hindered. In my experience gov't involvement has been a detriment. Another important and simple question to ask....if socialized medicine is so great, why do the affluent and often military personnel from other countries seek treatment in the U.S.?

Pretty simple stuff when you get down to it; The shiny new car looks great, but when the monthly payments come due.....not so much.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923224][quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923223]

Man you boys are rich. I just bought a brand new grill:) Let me sit on this for a week. I'm inclined to pass although [B]I see Obama taking 303 EV[/B].[/quote]Is that grill also a "smoker"????

Doesn't have to be for money, a simple thread of "SS33 is the wisest, most politically astute member or WP" would suffice. :laughing-

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]"Benefits" of Obamacare
- over $ 700B added to defecit by 2019
- over $ 500B in new taxes on ALL Americans[/quote]


..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-gop-debate-500-billion-in-cuts-to-medicare/2011/06/14/AGsnGAVH_blog.html]Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=saden1;923210][quote=12thMan;923206]

You should be confidant if everything stays as is. It will be close but so are all elections these days.

[URL="http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/"]Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com[/URL][/quote]I've been following this one:
[url=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html]RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map[/url]

but as you said, this will be close.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923227]..but not showing how much costs are being cut from Medicare?




[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-the-gop-debate-500-billion-in-cuts-to-medicare/2011/06/14/AGsnGAVH_blog.html"]Fact Checking the GOP debate: $500 billion in cuts to Medicare? - The Washington Post[/URL][/quote]numbers take into account Medicare cuts.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923218]Given all the benefits in the healthcare law, If you don't see this as victory for the American people, maybe you should revisit some of the provisions. I won't bother to list any.

FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.[/quote]I don't think anything you said above is true. For example:

[IMG]http://www.fiscalaccountability.org/userfiles/federal%20spending%20as%20percentage%20of%20gdp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=b&size=m&year=1950_2017&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_b_b_b_b_b_b&spending0=44.80_48.94_71.57_79.99_77.69_73.44_75.99_81.78_86.05_93.53_97.28_104.86_106.82_111.32_118.53_118.23_134.53_157.46_178.13_183.64_195.65_210.17_230.68_245.71_269.36_332.33_371.79_409.22_458.75_504.03_590.94_678.24_745.74_808.36_851.81_946.34_990.38_1004.02_1064.42_1143.74_1252.99_1324.23_1381.53_1409.39_1461.75_1515.74_1560.48_1601.12_1652.46_1701.84_1788.95_1862.85_2010.89_2159.90_2292.84_2471.96_2655.05_2728.69_2982.54_3517.68_3456.21_3603.06_3795.55_3803.36_3883.10_4059.87_4328.84_4531.72[/IMG]

I know I come off as abrasive sometimes, call me on it when I do please. I want to stay civil. Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?

If health care insurance is fundamentally reformed now, why is everybody with a solid paper trail being forced to buy into it?

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225][quote=12thMan;923218]"Benefits" of Obamacare
[/quote]Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
[url=http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/06/29/scotus-ruling-means-bigger-more-intrusive-irs/]SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=HailGreen28;923231]Could we lay off the "nice try" sarcasm?[/quote]


Well, if you not once, but twice try to make a false insinuation about the health care program, what do you expect?

It was said twice that Massachusetts had the highest premiums in the nation and it was implied heavily that it was all due to Romneycare (aka..obamacare). Now this person doesn't do any research into the state. Didn't find out they also have one of the highest costs of living AND also have one of the highest averages of income in then the nation as well. In the end, we find out that the people of Mass. are paying LESS of a % of their income towards health care premiums than say the people in the southern states.

It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me since I have to research and debunk the misleading info. :)

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232][quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225]Another one:
- an even more powerful and intrusive IRS...yaaaayy
[url=http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/06/29/scotus-ruling-means-bigger-more-intrusive-irs/]SCOTUS Ruling Means Bigger, More Intrusive IRS | Fox Business[/url][/quote]


Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923233]It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me [B]since I have to research and debunk the misleading info[/B]. :)[/quote]Did you give 12th a "nice try" for his earlier post that HG28 commented on?

12th, you can't quote the spokeskid without fact-checking him, c'mon man!

[url=http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/omb-4-yrs-spending-24-gdp-wh-demonstrated-significant-fiscal-restraint]OMB: 4 Yrs of Spending 24%+ of GDP; WH: “Demonstrated Significant Fiscal Restraint’ | CNSNews.com[/url]

HG28, nice find on the charts BTW....and you're definitely not abrasive in my book.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923236]Did you give 12th a "nice try" for his earlier post that HG28 commented on?

12th, you can't quote the spokeskid without fact-checking him, c'mon man!

[url=http://cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/omb-4-yrs-spending-24-gdp-wh-demonstrated-significant-fiscal-restraint]OMB: 4 Yrs of Spending 24%+ of GDP; WH: “Demonstrated Significant Fiscal Restraint’ | CNSNews.com[/url]

HG28, nice find on the charts BTW....and you're definitely not abrasive in my book.[/quote]

I haven't been keeping up with the side arguments. It's tough enough following my own. :cheeky-sm


I also did it to FD because he seemed to keep hammering that point down that Mass had the highest insurance premiums, and that he implied it was due to Romneycare.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923234][quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232]


Can you use any non-biased sources please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential thread to see my breakdown on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029"]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029 [/URL][/quote]
You can't discredit the source without reading the info, if the facts are correct, they're correct. I'd try to find sources in the lamestream media, but they bury anything that might hurt the "chosen one" and doctor video/voice tapes to advance their political agendas.

But to appease you, directly from the House Ways & Means Committee....oops they're biased too because the House is in GOP hands...
[URL]http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/IRS_Power_Report.pdf[/URL]

Many of the numbers come from GAO btw.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923218]FYI, the level of federal spending under Obama has risen at the slowest pace since Ike. That's nearly a generation. He's hardly running up the tab on the American people. Nice try though.[/quote]


[quote=HailGreen28;923231]I don't think anything you said above is true. For example:[/quote]

You sure about that? He may be right.


[url=http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obama-spending-binge-never-happened-2012-05-22?pagenumber=1]Obama spending binge never happened - Rex Nutting - MarketWatch[/url]

[quote]Even hapless Herbert Hoover managed to increase spending more than Obama has.

Here are the facts, according to the official government statistics:

• In the 2009 fiscal year — the last of George W. Bush’s presidency — federal spending rose by 17.9% from $2.98 trillion to $3.52 trillion. Check the official numbers at the Office of Management and Budget.

• In fiscal 2010 — the first budget under Obama — spending fell 1.8% to $3.46 trillion.

• In fiscal 2011, spending rose 4.3% to $3.60 trillion.

• In fiscal 2012, spending is set to rise 0.7% to $3.63 trillion, according to the Congressional Budget Office’s estimate of the budget that was agreed to last August.

• Finally in fiscal 2013 — the final budget of Obama’s term — spending is scheduled to fall 1.3% to $3.58 trillion. Read the CBO’s latest budget outlook.

Over Obama’s four budget years, federal spending is on track to rise from $3.52 trillion to $3.58 trillion, an annualized increase of just 0.4%.[/quote]


[quote]Reagan, 1982-85: Annual increase of 8.7 percent
Reagan, 1986-89: Annual increase of 4.9 percent
Bush I, 1990-93: Annual increase of 5.4 percent
Clinton, 1994-1997: Annual increase of 3.2 percent
Clinton, 1998-2001: Annual increase of 3.9 percent
Bush II, 2002-2005: Annual increase of 7.3 percent
Bush II, 2006-2009: Annual increase of 8.1 percent
Obama, 2010-2013: Annual increase of 1.4 percent [/quote]


[IMG]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/22325682.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

NC_Skins, you have the correct source.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923233]Well, if you not once, but twice try to make a false insinuation about the health care program, what do you expect?

It was said twice that Massachusetts had the highest premiums in the nation and it was implied heavily that it was all due to Romneycare (aka..obamacare). Now this person doesn't do any research into the state. Didn't find out they also have one of the highest costs of living AND also have one of the highest averages of income in then the nation as well. In the end, we find out that the people of Mass. are paying LESS of a % of their income towards health care premiums than say the people in the southern states.

It's slanted and false misinformation that's going to land you a "nice try" from people like myself. It's the least that should be afforded to me since I have to research and debunk the misleading info. :)[/quote]What did I falsely insinuate about the new health care bill?

Do you think costs to people are going down as a result of this bill? I've seen the opposite.

[IMG]http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Graphic/2011/06/26/cost__1309074859_7193.gif[/IMG]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=HailGreen28;923242]What did I falsely insinuate about the new health care bill?
[/quote]


Sorry. I was referencing "firstdown" when I said that. I was using the hypothetical that if you DID falsely insinuate stuff multiple times, expect a "nice try".

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923241]NC_Skins, you have the correct source.[/quote]A more accurate picture is spending as % of GDP, as is mentioned in my link:

from the link:
Yes, it is true that in fiscal year 2012, under Obama, the anticipated federal spending of 24.3 percent of GDP is 3.6 percent [I]less [/I]than the 25.2 percent the federal government spent in fiscal 2009, when Obama voted for President Bush’s $700 billion TARP and signed his own $831 billion stimulus.
But it is also true that the 24.3 percent of GDP that Obama’s OMB says the federal government will spend this year is 16.8 percent higher than the 20.8 percent it stood at in fiscal 2008--and a full three times as great as what federal spending was when Herbert Hoover left office.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923240][IMG]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/22325682.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

[IMG]http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0908/have-at-thee-my-reputation-grows-with-every-failure-demotivational-poster-1250609151.jpg[/IMG]

:food-smil

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=b&size=m&year=1950_2012&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_e_g_g&spending0=70.33_75.94_99.90_110.05_111.33_110.72_115.80_125.46_134.73_145.75_151.29_164.83_169.50_177.35_189.11_193.89_216.22_248.07_277.19_296.09_321.84_354.79_388.25_411.64_453.23_550.53_620.29_668.15_734.47_809.24_940.24_1051.82_1179.43_1283.58_1353.81_1496.30_1592.72_1662.02_1771.33_1915.12_2088.85_2230.30_2349.28_2420.82_2506.90_2634.73_2719.30_2813.40_2923.17_3053.31_3239.91_3428.54_3697.49_3934.54_4131.75_4397.10_4697.84_4923.25_5336.65_5942.71_5920.00_6050.51_6282.00[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=b&size=m&year=2005_2012&sname=US&bar=1&stack=1&col=c&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_e_g_g&spending0=4397.10_4697.84_4923.25_5336.65_5942.71_5920.00_6050.51_6282.00[/IMG]

Obama's not the biggest spender ever, but he's still increasing government spending overall. With a new massive increase to individual and federal spending that some are applauding now.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923243]Sorry. I was referencing "firstdown" when I said that. I was using the hypothetical that if you DID falsely insinuate stuff multiple times, expect a "nice try".[/quote]I see what you mean now. Cool. :food-smil

edit: I'm not saying firstdown has falsely insinuated anything, just that I understand NC_Skins comment and it's cool.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923244]A more accurate picture is spending as % of GDP, as is mentioned in my link:

from the link:
Yes, it is true that in fiscal year 2012, under Obama, the anticipated federal spending of 24.3 percent of GDP is 3.6 percent [I]less [/I]than the 25.2 percent the federal government spent in fiscal 2009, when Obama voted for President Bush’s $700 billion TARP and signed his own $831 billion stimulus.
But it is also true that the 24.3 percent of GDP that Obama’s OMB says the federal government will spend this year is 16.8 percent higher than the 20.8 percent it stood at in fiscal 2008--[B]and a full three times as great as what federal spending was when Herbert Hoover left office.[/B][/quote]

What I will say does not invalidate your argument, Sammy, because it is just a side remark. But who would want to use Hoover as any kind of economic benchmark? That's like comparing the success (or not) of some boat with the Titanic.

One would hope that we are doing things differently than Hoover.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

SS33, you sources about the costs are off, my man. The CBO this Spring projected the law would cut the deficit by $50 Billion more than they originally thought. I would suggest you take a gander at the real numbers.

[url]http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-13-Coverage%20Estimates.pdf[/url]

Ezra Klein gives a good breakdown of the numbers here.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/cbo-health-reform-to-cut-deficit-by-50-billion-more-than-we-thought/2011/08/25/gIQAXgPSES_blog.html]CBO: Health reform to cut deficit by $50 billion more than we thought - The Washington Post[/url]

Also, you say that $500B in new taxes on ALL Americans. Well that's not true either. Without even breaking out the calculator the law doesn't affect ALL Americans, so how could it jack up taxes on ALL Americans?

You make no mention of these benefits, some of which have kicked in now. Some later when the law fully kicks in 2014.

No mention of $800 billion tax credits for lower income families.
Insurance companies can't drop you because of pre-existing condition.
No mention of closing the Medicare doughnut hole for seniors

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923228]I've been following this one:
[url=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html]RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map[/url]

but as you said, this will be close.[/quote]

From the looks of it Romney has to win 65% of the toss up state electoral votes. For your sake you better hope people don't hold the fact that he is a Mormon against him and he manages pull in 89 of the 136 toss electoral votes.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=HailGreen28;923242]What did I falsely insinuate about the new health care bill?

Do you think costs to people are going down as a result of this bill? I've seen the opposite.

[IMG]http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Graphic/2011/06/26/cost__1309074859_7193.gif[/IMG][/quote]

The full law doesn't go into effect until 2014, when the exchanges are up and running. What analysis could possibly capture it's effect on healthcare inflation and spending? We still don't know the number of people that will join the pool.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923234][quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923232]


Can you use any [B]non-biased sources[/B] please? First Romney's main web page, now Fox business news? See the Presidential[B] thread to see my breakdown [/B]on the "independent of each other" agencies of Fox.


[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/debating-with-the-enemy/47853-2012-presidential-election-free-all-edition-8.html#post923029[/URL][/quote]

The link you provided using the non-bias Media Matters.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923208][URL="http://www.commonwealthfund.org/usr_doc/site_docs/slideshows/PremiumTrends2011/PremiumTrends2011.html"]Premium Trends 2011[/URL]


Here is 2010 data, and I imagine it'll be the same for 2011. I can do this all day long.



Nice try [I]again[/I]. (no seriously not really)



How about you provide proof instead of me doing all your work for you. You want to paint that Mass is paying the highest rates, but fail to see they have [B]the highest income AND that they actually pay less than most states as a percentage of income[/B].[/quote]

So if I make $100,000 and buy a car for $20,000 I paid less if a guy making $50,000 paid $18,000 for the same car?

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=firstdown;923254]So if I make $100,000 and buy a car for $20,000 I paid less if a guy making $50,000 paid $18,000 for the same car?[/quote]

It's hard to explain and you probably won't get it but lets just say you and that guy probably won't be eating at the same restaurant and drinking $9 Belgium beer.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=saden1;923256]It's hard to explain and you probably won't get it but lets just say you and that guy probably won't be eating at the same restaurant and drinking $9 Belgium beer.[/quote]

That's because he spent more money on his car!!!

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=firstdown;923257]That's because he spent more money on his car!!![/quote]

Don't forget to include the cost of insuring the car and putting gas in it.

I agree, it's their choice to [URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2012/05/10/average-price-of-a-new-car/"]buy a car[/URL] for that much instead of walking and ride the bus.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=firstdown;923254]So if I make $100,000 and buy a car for $20,000 I paid less if a guy making $50,000 paid $18,000 for the same car?[/quote]

You paid less as a percentage of income. His car cost him 36% of his income. It only cost you 20% of your income.


Obviously you haven't grasped the fact of "cost of living". Guess what? McDonalds food cost more in New York than it does North Carolina. So does housing and many other things.

Massachusetts average cost of home: $520,179

North Carolina average cost of home: $280,913


Almost double.


They have the second highest income (per person) average in the United States.
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-23-state-income-table_N.htm]State-by-state: Average income per person - USATODAY.com[/url]



So would you rather buy something that takes up 20% of your income or 36% of your income? Basic math.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

This sums up American politics very well.


[IMG]http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/4yZ4FZz..VT3dwMgT62SPA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/thesideshow/cryface.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923268]You paid less as a percentage of income. His car cost him 36% of his income. It only cost you 20% of your income.


Obviously you haven't grasped the fact of "cost of living". Guess what? McDonalds food cost more in New York than it does North Carolina. So does housing and many other things.

[B]Massachusetts average cost of home: $520,179

North Carolina average cost of home: $280,913


More than double.[/B]


They have the second highest income (per person) average in the United States.
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-23-state-income-table_N.htm]State-by-state: Average income per person - USATODAY.com[/url]



So would you rather buy something that takes up 20% of your income or 36% of your income? Basic math.[/quote]

520,179 is not more than double of 280,913. But your point remains.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Lotus;923270]520,179 is not more than double of 280,913. But your point remains.[/quote]

Herp. Derp.

My mistake. Was thinking "almost" double.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923225][quote=12thMan;923218]"
- Doctors will leave medicine, new doctors will not make investment and will choose other careers leading to an increased shortage of doctors and reduced quality of care.
- Government determines treatment options, particularly important for seniors. "Death Panels", probably not but "rationing of limited resources" absolutely: [URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidshaywitz/2012/06/01/why-we-shouldnt-dismiss-death-panels-as-pure-demagoguery/"]End-of-Life Medical Advice: Devaluing Patients in Name of Greater Good? - Forbes[/URL]

.[/quote]


Sorry Sammy but this ,this is the bullshit that the GOP throws out there to scare everybody over the arge of 70..and it just ain't true.