Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=celts32;834941]
I don't see the need for much of Torain...I see him more as insurance in case Hightower goes down. I would like to see more Helu mixed in for a change of pace though.[/quote]

That seemed to be the plan yesterday but, I think this could be a break out season for Torain if given the opportunity.

As far as Helu is concerned we need to give him at least 5-10 a game IMO and if he breaks out then more. No need to break Hightower down like we did Portis when we don't need to. I think we will see RB rotation next week.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=44ever;834946]That seemed to be the plan yesterday but, I think this could be a break out season for Torain if given the opportunity.

As far as Helu is concerned we need to give him at least 5-10 a game IMO and if he breaks out then more. No need to break Hightower down like we did Portis when we don't need to. I think we will see RB rotation next week.[/quote]


Yeah i think thats the plan too. Plus his hand was broken 4 weeks ago, a couple hits and it could rebreak and he could fumble the ball. You got to worry about a RB's pass protection too with a surgically repaired 4 week old broken hand. Might have soreness and swelling affecting his strength and mobility and might have a little nerve damage too. Keep him fresh while Hightower is playing well

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=RedskinRat;834943]On the topic of blown calls, I came up with a great drinking game: Take a chug every time Orakpo is held and there's no call. Please bear in mind that you won't make it past the first half upright.

:madani:[/quote]

Yeah, its absolutely ridiculous -- they basically clothesline him all game and he never gets a call. I hope Shanny puts a tape together and sends it to the league office.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=RedskinRat;834943]On the topic of blown calls, I came up with a great drinking game: Take a chug every time Orakpo is held and there's no call. Please bear in mind that you won't make it past the first half upright.

:madani:[/quote]

Yeah he was clotheslined a few times, par for the course for him. Can't believe it doesn't get called more because it's so blatant.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;834949]Yeah, its absolutely ridiculous -- they basically clothesline him all game and he never gets a call. I hope Shanny puts a tape together and sends it to the league office.[/quote]


It happens to every single pass rusher in the league. Guy needs to adapt and change his game up instead of using that one move. Otherwise, he's just going to digress. Still haven't seen him use a swim move or a spin move to this day.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;834948]Yeah i think thats the plan too. Plus his hand was broken 4 weeks ago, a couple hits and it could rebreak and he could fumble the ball. You got to worry about a RB's pass protection too with a surgically repaired 4 week old broken hand. Might have soreness and swelling affecting his strength and mobility and might have a little nerve damage too. [B]Keep him fresh while Hightower is playing well[/B][/quote]

I Agree with you there. In any case, the fact that we have 3 stud RB's who may not get all the touches they would like is a great problem to have. I would feel comfortable with any of them starting.

Im curious to see if Hightower can gain momentum as the game goes into the second half. Something just seemed off with him in the later part of the game. He admitted himself he likes to start fast so there may be a need for more balance to keep him running hard the whole game.

Looking forward to see how they mix it up next week...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;834952]It happens to every single pass rusher in the league. Guy needs to adapt and change his game up instead of using that one move. Otherwise, he's just going to digress. Still haven't seen him use a swim move or a spin move to this day.[/quote]

He's gotten better with his hands.

Once you beat a guy and he hooks you around the neck, not much you can do about that.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;834952]It happens to every single pass rusher in the league. Guy needs to adapt and change his game up instead of using that one move. Otherwise, he's just going to digress. Still haven't seen him use a swim move or a spin move to this day.[/quote]

Totally agree. That would make him an elite pass rusher and perennial Pro Bowler. Definitely need to add this to his game. Refs may only call the hold once or twice a game if lucky. Last year's opener, Rak was being held all game and the call only came at the end of the game when it mattered. Not always gonna get that break.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

He already is a perennial Pro Bowler, for what it's worth.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=RedskinRat;834943]On the topic of blown calls, I came up with a great drinking game: Take a chug every time Orakpo is held and there's no call. Please bear in mind that you won't make it past the first half upright.

:madani:[/quote]



Extend that to the whole D-Line and you'll be dead by half.

In the play just before Eli was called for grounding there was a hold so blatant that I was livid. Good thing the grounding came a few plays later and the Giants drive broke down.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

One holding call missed was so bad you could see the rusher go backwards as the lineman pulled his arm. Not a perfect game but it a good start.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

I didn't read through all 90 posts, and I know SS wanted to omit him from this thread, but I'm sorry. Reed Doughty is effing terrible. He's a great guy and the adversity he's overcome in life is impressive. In that sense, I'd like to have 53 Reed Doughty's. But he's not a good NFL safety. At all.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

an effing back up is what he is. As bad as he was he still managed to be a tackling machine.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;834617]I would be more than a little concerned about TW and the rest of the line .. not only was the giants secondary depleted, their D line was missing Osi and Tuck, arguably two of the best D Linemen in the league. Pierre Paul is no slouch but Trent Williams looked flat out bad against him today.[/quote]
He played horrible, but in his defense, Paul could end up being better than both of those guys.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=GMScud;834991]I didn't read through all 90 posts, and I know SS wanted to omit him from this thread, but I'm sorry. Reed Doughty is effing terrible. He's a great guy and the adversity he's overcome in life is impressive. In that sense, I'd like to have 53 Reed Doughty's. But he's not a good NFL safety. At all.[/quote]

Yeah I'm with you. Not sure why Doughty was off limits in this thread. Thom Loverro just said it best -- Doughty is like a major league pitcher who does everything right except give up the game winning hit.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Maybe I missed someting as far as Doughty ? Most CB's can't cover a WR 1 on 1 , very few if any Strong Safeties , let alone FS ' s can be expected to cover one . I hope LL makes it back soon , however he has been beaten ( badly ) on more than a few occasions himself . The NFL is a passing league , guys get beat .

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=GMScud;834991]I didn't read through all 90 posts, and I know SS wanted to omit him from this thread, but I'm sorry. Reed Doughty is effing terrible. He's a great guy and the adversity he's overcome in life is impressive. In that sense, I'd like to have 53 Reed Doughty's. But he's not a good NFL safety. At all.[/quote]

Yes Scud come over to the dark side. Reed is effing terrible period. I mean that performance yesterday was bad...there was probably 4-5 plays that he was just highlighted as blown coverages, mis read, mis tackle. I mean the whiff on bradshaw was god-aweful. Troy Aikemen lit him up a couple time.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;834853]Kinda how everyone and their monther has a blog these days? lol[/quote]

My monther has no blog. I have no monther now that I think about it.













[I]Very FDish, Matty.[/I]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=RedskinRat;834943]On the topic of blown calls, I came up with a great drinking game: Take a chug every time Orakpo is held and there's no call. Please bear in mind that you won't make it past the first half upright.

:madani:[/quote]

I saw Kerrigan getting held by the neck too.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;835034]I saw Kerrigan getting held by the neck too.[/quote]
Romo was getting held by the neck too .... ooops , I mean he choked again :)

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[IMG]http://www.nfltouchdown.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/romo.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2011/09/11/23/47/T7iWM.St.58.jpg[/IMG]


[url=http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/212422/20110912/tony-romo.htm]Could the Tony Romo Era be Done in Dallas?[/url]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;834940][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Well, except for the team that has a incorrect call against them. [/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

That would be EVERYBODY at one time or another. Again who does that really benefit? No one, that's who. Let the refs decide the game and it will add to the over-all enjoyment of it.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

There were some mistakes and things we can improve on, that's usually the case whether you win or lose. I read the Giants now saying the same things about their loss yesterday that we're usually saying when we're on the losing end.

I just want to savor this victory, go back to work, correct the mistakes of yesterday and use this game as a momentum builder. At least I can feel better about our mistakes in winning than the Giants can feel about theirs in losing......httr

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=GMScud;834991]I didn't read through all 90 posts, and I know SS wanted to omit him from this thread, but I'm sorry. Reed Doughty is effing terrible. He's a great guy and the adversity he's overcome in life is impressive. In that sense, I'd like to have 53 Reed Doughty's. But he's not a good NFL safety. At all.[/quote]

Beyond the two plays, can you tell me exactly what he did during that game to be labeled as "terrible"?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;835050]Beyond the two plays, can you tell me exactly what he did during that game to be labeled as "terrible"?[/quote]

Besides not having enough lifeboats and walls that didn't go high enough to protect against internal flooding, what [I]exactly[/I] was wrong with the design of the Titantic?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

I can't blame Reed too much for trying to jump that route that went for a TD. It's 3rd and long, naturally he's going to jump that thinking they're going for the first down. On the other play Aikman was right, he kinda got himself caught up in no man's land.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;835054]Besides not having enough lifeboats and walls that didn't go high enough to protect against internal flooding, what [I]exactly[/I] was wrong with the design of the Titantic?[/quote]

In other words, you can't answer the question. There is no reason to call the guy terrible, so you'll base it off two plays. I find this ironic that I get called out on cherry picking plays for Laron Landry, yet you all are doing the exact same thing with Reed.


Let's see, had LL led the team in tackles (like Reed did) and blew both of those coverages (like he did in the Eagles/Saints and many other games)....he's a STUD!! I simply don't get it. It's mind boggling to say the least.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;835056]I can't blame Reed too much for trying to jump that route that went for a TD. It's 3rd and long, naturally he's going to jump that thinking they're going for the first down. On the other play Aikman was right, he kinda got himself caught up in no man's land.[/quote]

..and I agree with that assessment too.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;835057][B]In other words, you can't answer the question.[/B] There is no reason to call the guy terrible, so you'll base it off two plays. I find this ironic that I get called out on cherry picking plays for Laron Landry, yet you all are doing the exact same thing with Reed.


Let's see, had LL led the team in tackles (like Reed did) and blew both of those coverages (like he did in the Eagles/Saints and many other games)....he's a STUD!! I simply don't get it. It's mind boggling to say the least.[/quote]

The premise of your question is flawed. What else do you need to know that Doughty is a tremendous liability in pass coverage? It's like asking, "apart from missing field goals, what "exactly" was wrong with Shaun Suisham?"

For the record, I haven't said one word about Laron Landry in this thread. He's a strong safety, hasn't been stellar in pass coverage in the past, and likely would have been beaten as well. That in no way negates the point about how 'terrible' Reed Doughty is in pass coverage.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;834647]Yeah, I thought they would bring in another RB and give HT a break. They need to mix it up with HT and give the opposition new looks with more options with running plays and putting in the guy that might best run that specific play. The days of the feature back are slowly slipping away into history.[/quote]

More of an observation than a criticism, but did anyone else notice how many times Hightower seemed to be running wide open in the flat? I noticed it in the pre-season as well. Beck seemed more willing to throw to the RBs when the play downfield wasn't there, but Rex seems totally oblivious to it. He's always looking to make the play downfield, which I don't mind, but RB screens can turn into big plays. I could see Helu thriving on plays like that.

Good thing is Rex seemed to make a play downfield just about every time Hightower was open in the flat, with a few notable exceptions.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;835054]Besides not having enough lifeboats and walls that didn't go high enough to protect against internal flooding, what [I]exactly[/I] was wrong with the design of the Titantic?[/quote]

Reed doughty is to LL fans, what the Chevy Volt is to conservative pundits.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;835059]The premise of your question is flawed. What else do you need to know that Doughty is a tremendous liability in pass coverage?

For the record, I haven't said one word about Laron Landry in this thread. He's a strong safety, hasn't been stellar in pass coverage in the past, and likely would have been beaten as well. That in no way negates the point about how 'terrible' Reed Doughty is in pass coverage.[/quote]


The premise of the question is not flawed. The Giants threw the ball for 32 times, and 2 out of the 32 he messed up on. So how about those other 30 plays? If he was such a liability, why didn't they keep exploiting him? Well you missed that whole thread devoted to LL and the argument about his liability in coverage.


Reed leads team in tackles + coverage liability = Terrible

Landry leads team in tackles + coverage liability = Awesome


That's pretty much the equation you hear from fans.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Doughty is bigger liability in coverage than Landry my friend, that isn't even worth arguing.

As for why they didnt exploit it more, it might be because of the D-Line or good corner play.

and btw I don't think he was horrible, but he wasn't exactly good. He played like a backup.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

did anyone see there defense and see who was on the field. aaron ross, corey webster, kenny phillips, and i cant think of the other saftey right now but their back field was not that depleted,(they won the super bowl with that same setup) also the defensive line that they had playing wasnt that bad because those same guys without osi and tuck posted 3 sacks last year in the last game. real fans know this oh and also rex put up the same numbers and the only difference was he did not throw the picks.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Just so you know, I'd rather LL be out there than Reed, but both have the same issues to be honest. I wouldn't say Reed is a "bigger liability" in coverage, it's just he's not as athletic as LL is.


That said, Reed was a 6th round pick for the Skins in 2006. He's been through 3 head coaches and 3 defensive coordinators and yet he's still here. So unless all those coaches(including Gibbs) are morons, chances are he's stayed as long as he's had for a reason. My guess is he isn't terrible after all.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

I didnt exactly see Reed on Scud Studs list

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;835056]I can't blame Reed too much for trying to jump that route that went for a TD. It's 3rd and long, naturally he's going to jump that thinking they're going for the first down. On the other play Aikman was right, he kinda got himself caught up in no man's land.[/quote]

He's just not very fast and doesn't display good instincts in my opinion. He was way to late to the ball on that 40 something yard gain down the middle to the Giants TE (forget his name). Aikman even called him out on it. Reed should have been all over that with a chance to make a play on the ball. That wasn't the only time I cursed him during the game.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

We have no good coverage safeties (unless there is something about Gomes nobody knows about yet). Some are worse at coverage than others. W/out breaking down the film and cataloguing the plays, but, rather relying only on what I observed in the course of a game, Landry is less of a coverage liability than Doughty. Further, Landry's hit's and tackles seem (though I don't know for sure) to be closer to the line of scrimmage and allow for less YAC.

I believe this is b/c Landry is simply faster, stronger and more athletic than Doughty. Thus, while Landry and Doughty both make lots of tackles due to the scheme, Landry's effectiveness in coverage and his stopping ability in both the run and passing game (including blitzing) is much, much higher than Doughty's effectiveness.

From what I can tell, this is due to Landry's ability to close more quickly than Doughty and Landry's better strength & athleticism that allows him to move more easily through traffic. Neither cover well, but Landry "covers" for his coverage errors with his make up speed. Bottom line, however, when it comes to coverage, neither Doughty nor Landry seem (to me) to have particularly good intincts or technique.

Love Doughty for lots of reasons, but to say there isn't a significant drop off between he and Landry seems silly to me. He is, at best, Landry light.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

[quote=redskins forever;835065]did anyone see there defense and see who was on the field. aaron ross, corey webster, kenny phillips, and i cant think of the other saftey right now but their back field was not that depleted,(they won the super bowl with that same setup) also the defensive line that they had playing wasnt that bad because those same guys without osi and tuck posted 3 sacks last year in the last game. real fans know this oh and also rex put up the same numbers and the only difference was he did not throw the picks.[/quote]

ok,....who were the LBER's?No, they did not win a super bowl with that D.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Giants at Redskins)
 

Reed - I tried to cover for you man! You just flat out suck!!!

There....I said it.