Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

I am not alleging for the record that the players should have accepted the March 11th proposal by the league. It wasn't good enough. But they should have extended the deadline and pushed off that framework with the decertification threat as leverage.

Because now that it's gone through the 8th circut, I see the supreme court as the only possible reason the players did any of this in the first place. De Smith, I believe, was smart enough to know that the district court PI ruling wouldn't hold up on appeal, and he more or less alluded to as much in post-ruling interviews.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/eighth-circuit-tips-its-hand-judge-nelsons-ruling-is-in-serious-jeopardy/]Eighth Circuit tips its hand; Judge Nelson’s ruling is in serious jeopardy | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE]“[W]e have serious doubts that the district court had jurisdiction to enjoin the League’s lockout, and accordingly conclude that the League has made a strong showing that it is likely to succeed on the merits.”
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]In finding that the league was able to satisfy the legal requirements for the issuance of the stay, the Eighth Circuit has in many respects knocked down Judge Nelson’s conclusion that the lockout should be lifted. Most powerful in this regard is the quote pasted above. If the Eighth Circuit believes the NFL has made a strong showing of success as to the application of the Norris-LaGuardia Act to the present facts, then the Eighth Circuit necessarily believes that the players won’t succeed on that key issue as the lawsuit proceeds. And if the Eighth Circuit believes that the players have no chance of proving that the Norris-LaGuardia Act permits a court-order lifting the lockout later, the Eighth Circuit will not issue a court order lifting the lockout now.

[/QUOTE]

FRPLG: one comment - I think both sides have had a moment(or more ) of bad faith moves. The tv money on the owners side was a highly antagonistic move. The pre-expiration disclaimer/antitrust suit was just as bad faith on the players side. It is hard to believe either has had pure good faith motive but instead both simply have played along fairly predictable lines.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

IF there is football next season, it's going to be a piece of sh*t year. I hope both sides are happy about this.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;803292]Just out of curiosity SS, are you referring to the boylan mediation or that the 2 met separate and apart from that?[/quote]

Both, though the details of their supposed conversation apart from the mediation are suspect at best. For the purposes of my argument, I'm going to say they had a few beers at happy hour tonight while shooting some pool..but I could be wrong. Either way, I think it's a bit inaccurate to say that Smith is just running to the podium at every turn and not doing anything to work toward an agreement.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803262]My beef is as follows.

[B][U]Owners and Goodell:[/U][/B]
- Complain about the split and talk of the players getting 60% when in fact they only get 53% which is less then the NHL, NBA, and I'm pretty sure the MLB.

- Only a small portion of NFL contracts are guaranteed so aside from paying less in salary then the other three leagues the owners can terminate contracts only owing a fraction of what the other leagues pay.

- Goodell talks of fans being excited about the prospect of an 18 game season because the preseason games don't meet the standard set by the NFL for quality. The reality is the majority of fans don't want an 18 game season because they have little interest in increasing the risk of injury to their key players.

- Also sad is the fact that part of the reason the fans hate preaseason games is they have to pay full price. Common sense dictates that the owners should stop charging regular season prices, Owners on the other hand don't want to loose that money and instead propose two extra games even if it means putting key players at risk.

- The total revenue earned by the NFL has increased in a recession ergo proving that for the foreseeable future the NFL is recession proof.

- These stadiums that the owners claim they need more money to build are mostly being paid for by tax payers and cities. Not the owners or the league. IIRC the Bidwells paid something like $9 million for their stadium after cost were covered by the city of Phoenix and the University of Phoenix with sponsorship.

-Using the TV deals and exclusivity contracts as a rainy day fund.

- Threatening the fans with essentially an anarchy system. 'No draft, no parity, etc'

[U][B]NFLPA, particularly De Smith[/B][/U]

- Rather then engage in serious negotiations the NFLPA is simply trying to bully it's way through the courts. They are more interested in power mongering and attempting to acquire leverage rather then act like adults and work towards a CBA thats good for everyone. Collectively the NFLPA has virtually zero idea as to how to approach negotiation. Rather then viewing it as an adversarial form of team work they approach it like a football game where there is a clearly defined winner and looser.

- Lack of counter offers. Just as I've been saying rather then come up with an alternate proposal the NFLPA's solution is simply to storm out and complain to the media about getting a raw deal. The owners have offered deals that at the very least have served as a great starting point. Instead De Smith comes out and calls it "the worst deal in sports."

- Not immediately shooting down the idea of an NFLPA draft event to compete with the draft.

- Decertification. Another attempt to acquire leverage and exploit the legal system. No better then the owners rainy day fund.

- Insisting on seeing the books for themselves. Third party audits aren't good enough for the NFLPA. Again focused more on winning and acquiring leverage rather then moving things along and finding a solution to the lockout.


[B]The owners may have started the lockout but I blame the players for allowing it to continue for as long as it has.
[/B][/quote]

F'ing brilliant. Winner.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;803297]Both, though the details of their supposed conversation apart from the mediation are suspect at best. For the purposes of my argument, I'm going to say they had a few beers at happy hour tonight while shooting some pool..but I could be wrong. Either way, I think it's a bit inaccurate to say that Smith is just running to the podium at every turn and not doing anything to work toward an agreement.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha. That you know of, has D Smith, or any player given a proposal or negotiating points since they walked away from the mediation?

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;803295]FRPLG: one comment - I think both sides have had a moment(or more ) of bad faith moves. The tv money on the owners side was a highly antagonistic move. The pre-expiration disclaimer/antitrust suit was just as bad faith on the players side. It is hard to believe either has had pure good faith motive but instead both simply have played along fairly predictable lines.[/quote]I always felt the tv money contract and going around to all 32 teams to vote on the right to decertify served the same purpose in this standoff. Neither was in good faith or bad faith, but were simply pre-negotiation leveraging. To decertify or lockout before talks broke off would have been the first bad faith move.

If the NFLPA had let the decertification deadline pass and then the owners went, shut off mediation, and locked the union out anyway, then that would have been an act of bad faith and I think the public would be squarely on the players side. But the NFLPA would be caught with far less leverage than they are now (their only play would have been to wait out the owners). And I don't think Smith trusted that the owners wouldn't stab him in the back if he didn't decertify.

A fantastic Prisoner's Dilemma though. And at the end of the day, I suppose that all the March negotiations ended up as was an exercise in game theory.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;803298]F'ing brilliant. Winner.[/QUOTE]

Please note that this has to be the shortest post ever from JR. I want to thank everybody involved in helping him learn how to use a minimum of words effectively!

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;803295]FRPLG: one comment - I think both sides have had a moment(or more ) of bad faith moves. The tv money on the owners side was a highly antagonistic move. The pre-expiration disclaimer/antitrust suit was just as bad faith on the players side. It is hard to believe either has had pure good faith motive but instead both simply have played along fairly predictable lines.[/quote]

Honestly I'm not sure it was a bad faith move as much as it was either dumb (as in they didn't ever actually consider that it was wrong) or they weren't convinced it wasn't kosher. But I would certainly concede that neither side has the claim to being totally "right" or even close.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;803301]Please note that this has to be the shortest post ever from JR. I want to thank everybody involved in helping him learn how to use a minimum of words effectively![/quote]

It's Tuesday "drink with the neighbors and all their frends" Night. So you need to also thiank the two bottles of wine, 4 magaritas and 2 shots of bourbon I have drank in the last two hours.

f' em all. Football forever. Fight for all DC!!

SB XVII, GTripp & FRPG are brilliant, Dirtbag gets it, SS - however - is a whiny insider player's know-it-all. NC_Skins is a communist.

Going to drink more.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=FRPLG;803290]I'm curious about why you'd side with the players honestly. I think you'd agree both sides are being greedy (which is perfectly acceptable in this case to me.) Given only that I'd be hard pressed to take any side at all. But add in that the players have consistently positioned themselves to pursue litigation and have now pursued said litigation by pretty dubious means I can't see how anyone can side with them. The balance of good faith spent lies firmly with the owners in my opinion and that is the only thing that tilts me towards the owners.

Edit: I think it is telling that we have a group of 32 business owners making BILLIONS of dollars a year crying poor and slowly but surely public opinion seems to be shifting firmly to their side. If there was ever a less sympathetic entity than the NFL owners crying poor I cannot think of it. Yet the players are consistently positioning themselves on the wrong side of "right".[/quote]

I wrote a whole post about it, don't feel like rehashing it. But in summary, I don't believe the state of the league is as poor as the owners claim it is, and the NFLPA made several concessions which were rejected by the NFL before March

[url=http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2011/01/Jan-18/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFLPA.aspx]NFLPA Made Proposals To NFL On How To Split Revenues - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal[/url]

and we disagree on "dubious means" and the players side was prepared to negotiate multiple times back in the spring, but the owners either wouldn't show up for meetings, would show up but sit in a separate room and not meet face to face, or would show up and leave after a couple of hours.

And from my own discussions with the league, I just don't buy that they're in the dire position they claim to be. And I know how they can bully, totally different circumstances I know.

Yes, both sides are to blame. But I think the owners are being made to look too much like the good guys. Which, I understand, they usually are because people generally have a hard time siding with "millionaires playing a kid's game"

I also don't think I'm as emotionally charged up about this as others appear to be. And heck, it would probably affect me more than most others here. But the only reason I want the issue resolved is for my own selfish reasons as a fan. But realistically, I know that what matters is getting to a long-term agreement that will benefit the players and keep the league moving forward for decades to come, not a quick fix band-aid solution to appease fans.

I'm not so aggravated about the NFLPA preparing for litigation. Both the NFL and the NFLPA have been preparing themselves for worst-case scenarios for a couple of years. That's par for the course.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;803299]Gotcha. That you know of, has D Smith, or any player given a proposal or negotiating points since they walked away from the mediation?[/quote]

Not that I know of. I doubt any player would anyway

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;803305]It's Tuesday "drink with the neighbors and all their frends" Night. So you need to also thiank the two bottles of wine, 4 magaritas and 2 shots of bourbon I have drank in the last two hours.

f' em all. Football forever. Fight for all DC!!

SB XVII, GTripp & FRPG are brilliant, Dirtbag gets it, SS - however - is a whiny insider player's know-it-all. NC_Skins is a communist.

Going to drink more.[/QUOTE]
Ya know I coulda found a way over there!

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=SBXVII;803251]
[B]#3- [/B]Monopoly? I don't think so. Prior to the UFL, yes, but the players do have more then one option now. They may not get as good a pay but they have options.
[/quote]

It isn't about being a monopoly. It is about [I]monopolizing [/I]the market. Collusion would fit under the act of monopolizing, but they have an exemption to that, so some OTHER act that would consistitute monopolizing the market. The UFL's existence is irrelevant to the matter unless the NFL is trying actively wipe it out.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;803305]It's Tuesday "drink with the neighbors and all their frends" Night. So you need to also thiank the two bottles of wine, 4 magaritas and 2 shots of bourbon I have drank in the last two hours.

f' em all. Football forever. Fight for all DC!!

SB XVII, GTripp & FRPG are brilliant, Dirtbag gets it, SS - however - is a whiny insider player's know-it-all. NC_Skins is a communist.

Going to drink more.[/quote]Now waiting on the Lockout Continues-Drunk Thread super-merge.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;803305]
SB XVII, GTripp & FRPG are brilliant, [B]Dirtbag gets it[/B], SS - however - is a whiny insider player's know-it-all. NC_Skins is a communist.

Going to drink more.[/quote]

You must be drunk, saying something as foolish as that.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803288]That one needs to happen. I can live with an NBA lockout mainly because the NBA needs fundamental changes to player movement and acquisition. The NFL system on the other hand works from a competition perspective all it needs is a few tweaks. And unlike the NFL I can in fact believe that the NBA owners are loosing money.[/quote]

NBA also needs to revamp how their draft works. I just don't get how the worst team doesn't get the #1 pick because they drew ping pong balls to determine who gets the #1 pick.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I don't understand why can't there be negotiations while the league it is still running. I just feel that the teams are shooting themselves in the foot by not having free agency and offseason workouts/practices/training camps.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

Why is there so much debate over the 59% or 53%? The owners say 59% the players say 53%.

Could I possibly be right in thinking the owners keep talking about the expired CBA and after the 1 billion was taken off the top the players received 59% of the income.

But under the new CBA offered by the NFL 2 billion would be taken off the top and the players would only get 53%?

Is that even remotely close? "if" I am then split the difference. If the players refuse to give up their 59% then let the owners take 2 billion off the top and of the remaining give the players 59%. or... only give the owners 1 billion off the top and only give the players 53% of the income. Fair?

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=Ruhskins;803327]I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I don't understand why can't there be negotiations while the league it is still running. I just feel that the teams are shooting themselves in the foot by not having free agency and offseason workouts/practices/training camps.[/quote]

I think in the perfect world they could, but....

I, for some reason, believe or have heard that when the players decertified or filed their decertification the owners had to lockout to protect themselves. from what I don't know? each player possibly filing a suit against them? or because the union did it to get the upper hand the owners locked out to keep the upper hand. I don't know.

As others have said, does it really matter who has the upper hand? if either side is not happy with the offer just don't agree to it until both sides are happy. The owners can't put football games on if the players don't agree and sit out ie; strike. The players can't play unless the owners bus them to their location to play. Let them work out all they want.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=SBXVII;803328]Why is there so much debate over the 59% or 53%? The owners say 59% the players say 53%.

Could I possibly be right in thinking the owners keep talking about the expired CBA and after the 1 billion was taken off the top the players received 59% of the income.

But under the new CBA offered by the NFL 2 billion would be taken off the top and the players would only get 53%?

Is that even remotely close? "if" I am then split the difference. If the players refuse to give up their 59% then let the owners take 2 billion off the top and of the remaining give the players 59%. or... only give the owners 1 billion off the top and only give the players 53% of the income. Fair?[/quote]

59% is of the 8billion (including 1billion exemption)
53% is of the total 9 billion.

either way it equates to approx 4.7 billion.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803306]I wrote a whole post about it, don't feel like rehashing it. But in summary, I don't believe the state of the league is as poor as the owners claim it is, and the NFLPA made several concessions which were rejected by the NFL before March

[url=http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2011/01/Jan-18/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFLPA.aspx]NFLPA Made Proposals To NFL On How To Split Revenues - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal[/url]

and we disagree on "dubious means" and the players side was prepared to negotiate multiple times back in the spring, but the owners either wouldn't show up for meetings, would show up but sit in a separate room and not meet face to face, or would show up and leave after a couple of hours.

And from my own discussions with the league, I just don't buy that they're in the dire position they claim to be. And I know how they can bully, totally different circumstances I know.

Yes, both sides are to blame. But I think the owners are being made to look too much like the good guys. Which, I understand, they usually are because people generally have a hard time siding with "millionaires playing a kid's game"

I also don't think I'm as emotionally charged up about this as others appear to be. And heck, it would probably affect me more than most others here. But the only reason I want the issue resolved is for my own selfish reasons as a fan. But realistically, I know that what matters is getting to a long-term agreement that will benefit the players and keep the league moving forward for decades to come, not a quick fix band-aid solution to appease fans.

I'm not so aggravated about the NFLPA preparing for litigation. Both the NFL and the NFLPA have been preparing themselves for worst-case scenarios for a couple of years. That's par for the course.[/quote]

Excellent post.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;803331]59% is of the 8billion (including 1billion exemption)
53% is of the total 9 billion.

either way it equates to approx 4.7 billion.[/quote]


What happens when the pot gets bigger?

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=saden1;803333]Excellent post.[/quote]

Check's in the mail


Thanks

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=saden1;803334]What happens when the pot gets bigger?[/quote]

Well in some states I think your allowed to have like a gram or something but if the pot gets bigger then your going to probably go to jail.

Any questions?

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=SmootSmack;803306]I wrote a whole post about it, don't feel like rehashing it. But in summary, I don't believe the state of the league is as poor as the owners claim it is, and the NFLPA made several concessions which were rejected by the NFL before March

[URL="http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2011/01/Jan-18/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NFLPA.aspx"]NFLPA Made Proposals To NFL On How To Split Revenues - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal[/URL]

and we disagree on "dubious means" and the players side was prepared to negotiate multiple times back in the spring, but the owners either wouldn't show up for meetings, would show up but sit in a separate room and not meet face to face, or would show up and leave after a couple of hours.

And from my own discussions with the league, I just don't buy that they're in the dire position they claim to be. And I know how they can bully, totally different circumstances I know.

Yes, both sides are to blame. But I think the owners are being made to look too much like the good guys. Which, I understand, they usually are because people generally have a hard time siding with "millionaires playing a kid's game"

I also don't think I'm as emotionally charged up about this as others appear to be. And heck, it would probably affect me more than most others here. But the only reason I want the issue resolved is for my own selfish reasons as a fan. But realistically, I know that what matters is getting to a long-term agreement that will benefit the players and keep the league moving forward for decades to come, not a quick fix band-aid solution to appease fans.

I'm not so aggravated about the NFLPA preparing for litigation. Both the NFL and the NFLPA have been preparing themselves for worst-case scenarios for a couple of years. That's par for the course.[/quote]

I agree w/Saden; that's a good post. I've been very optimistic about this whole thing & I think I understand enough of both sides to be somewhat objective. Is greed & power involved? of course, how could it not be? But I'm trying not to get caught up on picking sides.

As a fan, I think this offers a great opportunity for the NFL & players to come up with some creative agreements that can benefit the league long-term. Like it or not, significant changes typically don't happen without some catastrophie or interuption of the status quo.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=sbxvii;803336]well in some states i think your allowed to have like a gram or something but if the pot gets bigger then your going to probably go to jail.

Any questions?[/quote]

lol.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=saden1;803334]What happens when the pot gets bigger?[/quote]

I imagine that you are quite capable of the math, but I guess the off season is ripe for mathematics

59% of 9B = 5.31Bill
53% of 10B = 5.3Bill

59% of 10B = 5.9Bill
53% of 11B = 5.83Bill

59% of 11B = 6.49Bill
53% of 12B = 6.36Bill

etc
extra credit
(suppose the additional 1b credit was issued then what % are we talking about)
start at 9B, subtract 2B = 7B (note the NFL has moved off the 2B number)
now use 59% (as that is the % after the exemption) = 4.13B
now find new % (4.13B/9B)*100 = 47% (approx)
that is the % the NFL initially asked the players to accept using the TGR system.

or something along those lines.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

When you say they backed off the 2B number your refering to the owners still wanting their 1B they have been taking all along but instead of including the second billion they decided to split the difference 500mill/500mill and the players still balked. Right? It's like the players don't even want to give an inch. I think the owners knew they wouldn't get the 2B but you have to ask for it bacause you know the other side will talk you down. Like when selling a car, you want $2,500 you almost need to start out at $5,000. Thats all the owners did. But the players won't even let an extra 500 mill go.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

Now things are getting interesting....

[QUOTE]The National Hockey League yesterday asked the appeals court for permission to file a friend-of-the-court brief supporting team owners in the NFL case.

“The NHL has a direct interest in ensuring that the determination of terms and conditions of employment for NHL players is the product of a bona fide labor process rather than the ‘lever’ of potential antitrust liability,” attorneys for the hockey league said in their filing.

That league too questioned the players’ ability to disclaim their union and then file suit seeking injunctive relief.

NHL Argument
“The NHL respectfully submits that this cannot be the state of the law,” its lawyers wrote.
[/QUOTE]

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-09/nfl-owners-ask-u-s-appeals-court-to-reverse-lockout-lift-order.html]NFL Club Owners Seek Reversal of Lockout Order in Labor Fight With Players - Bloomberg[/url]

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

Wow for once a positive look at the lockout....

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81fe04ae/article/burress-might-actually-benefit-from-lengthy-lockout?module=HP_headlines]NFL.com news: In lockout with many losers, Burress might actually be a winner[/url]

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

Uh Oh, Now everyone is coming out of the wood work to file supporting the owners;
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6559848]Mediation over but NFL says progress was made - ESPN[/url]

[QUOTE]Separately, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce business lobbying group filed a brief Tuesday supporting the league.

The chamber, like the NFL, noted that the dispute is currently before the National Labor Relations Board in the form of an unfair labor negotiations charge against the players. Until then, the chamber said, the court fight should be on hold and the NFL should be able to lock out its players if needed.

"For the collective bargaining process to work as Congress intended, the parties to the dispute must largely be left by the courts to their own devices," the chamber said. "The prospect of self-help forces the parties to make difficult choices" with the option of judges coming to their aid."

The NHL, which could face its own labor problem next year, earlier filed a similar brief supporting the NFL.

Information from ESPN's
[/QUOTE]

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=SBXVII;803362]Uh Oh, Now everyone is coming out of the wood work to file supporting the owners;
[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6559848]Mediation over but NFL says progress was made - ESPN[/url][/quote]

I support the owners. Great men like Mike Brown who would rather make disgruntled players suffer in Cincy rather then building his team through the draft with additional picks. Ralph Wilson, who's so senile that he hired a guy named Buddy Nix to build his team then confused the AFC East with the ACC in the hiring of Chan Gailey. Whose team thought that Aaron Maybin would be better then Brian Orakpo.

Guys like Jerry Jones, who thinks he's a great NFL GM. Guys like Dan Snyder who by taking a step back approach now has the time to sue newspapers in addition to bankrupt season ticket holders.

Bill Bidwell, who didn't start trying to win until he realized that the state of Arizona wouldn't build a stadium for a team that didn't even try.

These great business men are men of honor and greatness and I support them.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

^ I'm soo confused, but it seems like the reward is lazyness and lack of production? Like Hayensworth. OMG, I just had an epiphany!

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

I am not completely for the players, but I sure as hell are not going to have a drop of sympathy for the owners on this battle. Yet I am sure they are going to win this, since they appear to be willing to sacrifice a lot (2011 season) to get what they want.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

I'm not sure who I'm for at this point. I just don't want games to be missed. Especially that first week being the 10 year anniversay of 9-11. Football needs to be played on that day and it will be a huge public relations nightmare if there's no football on 9-11. And having seen two strikes, 82 and 87, it's only a matter of time before the owners are going to win. Eventually the players will cave in.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

^ no matter what side your on it's going to boil down to attrition. Did the players save enough money to last the lockout? or are they going to have to get loans to pay back help out? In the end I'm hedging the players will be forced to give in.

What I don't get is they had 2 meetings, two weeks go by, they had 2 meetings, two weeks will go by, etc. etc. Why can't the magistrate mediator order them to sit every day up until June 3rd? Why do we have to wait until June 3rd now and then they can sit down June 7th?

Why the delay? They can still keep sitting down and talking while they wait to see who was wrong.

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

Someone needs to make a Real Men of Genius commercial for the lockout.

Today we salute you Mr. Overzealous Power Mongering Litigation Attorney

Mr Overzealous Power Mongering Litigation ATTORNEYYYY

[YT]lsC3ni7A88M[/YT]

Re: 8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;803253]They offered to open the books to a third party audit and the NFLPA refused. They wanted to look them over themselves, most likely to look for leverage.

[url=http://www.battleredblog.com/2011/3/11/2045119/nfls-statement-on-nflpa-decertification]NFL's Statement On NFLPA Decertification - Battle Red Blog[/url][/quote]

That doesn't say they offered to open their books to a third party. The "audited' information that they offering is going to hide any personal expenses they may be masking as their business expenses. This isn't the real information needed to ascertain whether the owners are lying about their claim of loss of profits. THIS is what the owners don't want players seeing because it'll kill their very plea that they are losing money when in fact they are blowing it for personal gain. (See the LA Dodgers for a prime example) Now, most owners aren't going to go all out like the McCourts but I will bet you my life that owners do use their business stuff for personal use and write it off as a "business expense". In fact, every owner I know in America does this. Goes back to my idea that you can't expect the players to take cuts all because you run your business horribly.


[quote=SBXVII;803259]What point of the players leaving 6 hrs prior to the deadline to file their decertification and not staying, not requesting and extension, and not even offering a counter offer makes the owners the bad guys who wanted to opt out of the CBA? I'm sorry but to put it in your words..." I don't care that the players opted out of the CBA." [/quote]

I don't know of any courts that stay open till midnight, so they had to decertify by 5pm that day or the case wouldn't have stayed in Minnesota. Surely you do realize this right? They would have had an extension of the CBA before that 5pm deadline in order stop the NFLPA from decertifying. However, it had been said that there was no use of going forward at this point because both sides were no budging. They had no other choice but to decertify.



One thing to remember in the owners argument that player costs are the reason they are losing profits. Player salaries for the most part are not guaranteed. (unlike MLB and NBA) The salary cap of a team is no indication of how much they are actually paying their players that year. I still don't believe their bullcrap. I've never seen a business in my life bring in more revenue each year and lose profits. Not without somebody either embezzling money or doing a piss poor job running it.