Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

i think beck has a good shot to be our starter next year. former second round pick not too long ago, '07 i think, who never has really had a shot. shannahan said he was his #1 qb coming out in that draft by a large margin, and we signed him to an extension without him ever taking a snap for us. shannahan obviously really likes him and feels comfortable with our QB situation right now. im curious to see if beck could really be the guy for us, as crazy as it sounds.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Might as well give JB a shot who else we got

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

We definitely need to completely rebuild. I don't know if we should start John Beck or not but he should be given a chance to compete. We shouldn't resign Santana, especially with all those receivers we drafted. The only person I would definitely resign is Rocky McIntosh. Maybe keep Carlos Rogers if he'll resign for the right price and Jamal Brown since we did nothing to help ourselves on the o-line. We need to get younger overall and it looks like this team finally realizes it with this draft.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;800086]I have no idea why Shanahan is so high on John Beck. Average arm, average mobility, can't make the players around him better...I really don't care what the guy did in college cause that was like 5 years ago.[/quote]

I understand what you're saying and there are a lot of people who agree with you. What I see happening here is that Shanahan probably feels that in the short term he has enough in Beck and Grossman [if he's resigned] that he wouldn't feel pressed to draft an unworthy QB just because there's a need when we have so many needs in other places.

I trust in his statement that he has a plan, we don't know what that plan is, whether in the end it will include a cobination of Beck - Grossman or neither is to be determined.

[Quote] I don't care what the guy did in college [Unquote] I say that about every player at every position that leaves the collegiate ranks and enters the NFL.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I love all of the armchair experts who have already written the eulogy on Beck's QB career. So I guess if A team (or more than one team) gives up on you or trades you then clearly you have no ability to start as a QB in the NFL, right?

I guess Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Kerry Collins, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Shaun Hill-all of whom have either been traded, released or consciously not been brought back-aren't viable NFL QBs, right? Beck may not ever be on the level of even Fitzpatrick but if Shanahan, who has made chicken salad out of chicken sh*t QBs before in Griese & Plummer, believes he can be a productive QB in his system why in May am I throwing dirt on the grave?

This could all be a smokescreen for another QB (Young comes to mind but I don't think his work ethic matches Shanny's expectations) but in the absence of such then I'm willing to see what Beck brings before giving up on him. We know Grossman is a human turnover machine so why not give Beck a shot?

And for the 'lets hold out for Andrew Luck' folks, get a clue, unless we are planning to trade our 2013 draft to get in place for the 2012 overall #1 pick it's not gonna happen.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;800086]I have no idea why Shanahan is so high on John Beck. Average arm, average mobility, can't make the players around him better...I really don't care what the guy did in college cause that was like 5 years ago.[/quote]

I hear ya, BUT MS never said JB would be the starter.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;800136]GMs have to adopt the attitude though,[B] if [/B]there's a player that will be a game-breaker to be obtained [B]and[/B] the current roster isn't worth preserving. However, rather than ask the coach to tank, they blow up the team so that it can't win that many games. The Caps, while in a different sport, did adopt this strategy.[/quote]

There are several differences between that example and the posts above:

1) GM's take economic factors into account when blowing up a team, not just performance factors. "Fans" above are simply accounting for performance and praying that the Skins do not perform, just like Cowboys fans do.
2) Football is dramatically different from hockey and basketball in that there are more moving pieces and less of an emphasis on purely individual performance. Therefore there is greater sense in completely blowing up a team in other sports than there is in football.
3) The fans above are not rooting for a rebuilt team. Instead, they are rooting for an entire team to tank so that we can draft just one guy, and a guy at a position with high bust potential no less.

There are ways to acquire a franchise QB other than the draft. You need not look beyond our division (Eagles and Cowboys) to see this. So to root for your team to lose because that is the only way to get a franchise QB is traitorous lunacy IMO.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;800142][B]What is 7 or 8 wins going to accomplish [/B]for a team that needs an overhaul? When it's all said and done we need a franchise QB, someone that when they walk on the field can make everyone around them better. I don't know who that person is, but he's obviously not on the roster.[/quote]

They will accomplish winning...which is, after all, the point.

But if you want to root for the Redskins to lose just like Cowboys fans do, go ahead. Just change your screen name to Cowboysfan69 please.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;800154]I understand what you're saying and there are a lot of people who agree with you. What I see happening here is that Shanahan probably feels that in the short term he has enough in Beck and Grossman [if he's resigned] that he wouldn't feel pressed to draft an unworthy QB just because there's a need when we have so many needs in other places.

I trust in his statement that he has a plan, we don't know what that plan is, whether in the end it will include a cobination of Beck - Grossman or neither is to be determined.

[Quote] I don't care what the guy did in college [Unquote] I say that about every player at every position that leaves the collegiate ranks and enters the NFL.[/quote]


John Beck is a smokescreen. Putting him in as starter would be like if Zorn gave Chase Daniel the start, even worse in my book. Not grabbing even Mallet when he went so frigging low should be an indication of an impending FA QB acquisition. We have both McNabb and AH to unload on someone. At this point I say Palmer is on our radar screen, maybe Alex Smith and Vince Young also..

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Paintrain;800156]I love all of the armchair experts who have already written the eulogy on Beck's QB career. So I guess if A team (or more than one team) gives up on you or trades you then clearly you have no ability to start as a QB in the NFL, right?

I guess Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Kerry Collins, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Shaun Hill-all of whom have either been traded, released or consciously not been brought back-aren't viable NFL QBs, right? Beck may not ever be on the level of even Fitzpatrick but if Shanahan, who has made chicken salad out of chicken sh*t QBs before in Griese & Plummer, believes he can be a productive QB in his system why in May am I throwing dirt on the grave?

This could all be a smokescreen for another QB (Young comes to mind but I don't think his work ethic matches Shanny's expectations) but in the absence of such then I'm willing to see what Beck brings before giving up on him. We know Grossman is a human turnover machine so why not give Beck a shot?

And for the 'lets hold out for Andrew Luck' folks, get a clue, unless we are planning to trade our 2013 draft to get in place for the 2012 overall #1 pick it's not gonna happen.[/quote]

You make excellent points Paintrain. Over the years I've witnessed some of the best QB's the NFL has seen get bounced around only to find great success in a place that fit their talents.

I saw Johnny Unitas, unwanted in Pittsburgh HOF..Jim Plunkett traded out of NE Super Bowl in LA. Rich Gannon, journeyman, Minnesota, [twice] Redskins, Super Bowl in La. Brad Johnson traded out of Minnesota to Redskins, on to Tampa Bay, Super Bowl. The list is so long it's impossible to begin to name them all. All to often some people are quick to write off players [especially QB's] when they don't have success early in their careers. Unless you're one of the exceptional ones the position can take years to master.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/680705-2011s-top-15-college-quarterbacks-selected-in-next-years-2012-nfl-draft]Best College Quarterbacks That Will Be Selected in Next Year's 2012 NFL Draft | Bleacher Report[/url]

Here is next years quarterbacks. Some solid talent. I like Kellen Moore.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;800165]You make excellent points Paintrain. Over the years I've witnessed some of the best QB's the NFL has seen get bounced around only to find great success in a place that fit their talents.

I saw Johnny Unitas, unwanted in Pittsburgh HOF..Jim Plunkett traded out of NE Super Bowl in LA. Rich Gannon, journeyman, Minnesota, [twice] Redskins, Super Bowl in La. Brad Johnson traded out of Minnesota to Redskins, on to Tampa Bay, Super Bowl. The list is so long it's impossible to begin to name them all. All to often some people are quick to write off players [especially QB's] when they don't have success early in their careers. Unless you're one of the exceptional ones the position can take years to master.[/quote]

But you're talking about guys who already showed they could be successful in the NFL, or a guy like Johnny Unitas who got his 2nd chance like a year into his career.

I hope that Beck is the next Trent Green. I just haven't personally seen it yet. I certainly hope that if he's our guy then I'm totally proven wrong.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinster;800127]THANK YOU, finally someone who shares my sentiment. I know its not gonna happen, but I hope shanny starts beck in an attempt to throw the season so we can get luck next year.[/quote]

:doh:

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=musicmaster45;800166][url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/680705-2011s-top-15-college-quarterbacks-selected-in-next-years-2012-nfl-draft]Best College Quarterbacks That Will Be Selected in Next Year's 2012 NFL Draft | Bleacher Report[/url]

Here is next years quarterbacks. Some solid talent. I like Kellen Moore.[/quote]

Please notice that some of those guys are potential franchise QB's and we could draft them without tanking the season.

Sorry, I'll stop. But people who root for us to lose chap my hide.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Anyone else see the Albert Haynesworth for Kyle Orton trade scenario heating up? I would have started this as a thread but i really dont know how to lol. Everyone thought the Broncos would select Marcell Dareus until earlier in the day before the draft started, thats when Von Miller's name became a more popular option. DT is possibly the Broncos weakest defensive position and they didnt take even ONE in the draft. The Redskins weakest offensive position is QB. I know Shanahan and Elway have a lil "tension" between them but if they could get a deal done, what would you think?

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

A good article on Beck's response to Shanny's statements:

[url=http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2011/04/30/shanahan-endorses-beck-beck-determined-to-win-job/]Shanahan endorses Beck; Beck determined to win job - Redskins Journal[/url]

also in the comments:
Is being better than JaMarcus Russell really saying much.
Other 2007 picks include Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton and Trent Edwards.

That said Shanny did say he had Beck #1 on his board, so he rated him over Quinn and Kolb as well as Russell.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=PHazard;800174]Anyone else see the Albert Haynesworth for Kyle Orton trade scenario heating up? I would have started this as a thread but i really dont know how to lol. Everyone thought the Broncos would select Marcell Dareus until earlier in the day before the draft started, thats when Von Miller's name became a more popular option. DT is possibly the Broncos weakest defensive position and they didnt take even ONE in the draft. The Redskins weakest offensive position is QB. I know Shanahan and Elway have a lil "tension" between them but if they could get a deal done, what would you think?[/quote]


I don't like Orton, if we can say FU to "A Hole" then make the deal but I still don't think Orton is a franchise QB.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;800168]But you're talking about guys who already showed they could be successful in the NFL, or a guy like Johnny Unitas who got his 2nd chance like a year into his career.

I hope that Beck is the next Trent Green. I just haven't personally seen it yet. I certainly hope that if he's our guy then I'm totally proven wrong.[/quote]

That actually makes the situation even worse SS. When you have players like the few I mentioned who showed promise early in their careers get bounced around, it's not difficult to understand the fate of guys like Beck who've been evaluated as being less talented.

I won't have a problem with whatever Shanahan decides to do and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Beck never got an opportunity under center, nor would I be disappointed if he didn't.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I'm not following how it makes the situation worse

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;800175]A good article on Beck's response to Shanny's statements:

[URL="http://blogs.fredericksburg.com/redskinsjournal/2011/04/30/shanahan-endorses-beck-beck-determined-to-win-job/"]Shanahan endorses Beck; Beck determined to win job - Redskins Journal[/URL]

also in the comments:
Is being better than JaMarcus Russell really saying much.
Other 2007 picks include Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton and Trent Edwards.

That said Shanny did say he had Beck #1 on his board, so he rated him over Quinn and Kolb as well as Russell.[/quote]

I love that he's been training with Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers during the offseason.

I've got my fingers crossed that Beck shines for us. Not sure he's a franchise-type guy, but it sounds like Shanny loves the kid. The fact that we didn't select even one QB reinforces that.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Shoulda picked Mallett.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;800180]I'm not following how it makes the situation worse[/quote]

Dosen't make Beck's situation any better or worse per say but, it does make it easy to understand how/why he like others who may not have had ample opportunity in the right situation can be sometimes judged prematurily.

Hey! dont get me wrong, I'm not on some type of John Beck crusade. :)
I've only seen the guy play once in Miami and that wasn't enough for me to know much about him.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GMScud;800182]I love that he's been training with Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers during the offseason.

I've got my fingers crossed that Beck shines for us. [B]Not sure he's a franchise-type guy[/B], but it sounds like Shanny loves the kid. The fact that we didn't select even one QB reinforces that.[/quote]

Agreed. But if Shannyx2 didn't like any Qb's this year, we don't need him to be a franchise QB, just someone who capably gets us to this point next year.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Lotus;800170]Please notice that some of those guys are potential franchise QB's and we could draft them without tanking the season.

Sorry, I'll stop. But people who root for us to lose chap my hide.[/quote]

I mean really, who wants to see us lose? Andrew Luck is much better than Newton but i think he will suffer some of the fate as Newton, get sent to a terrible team and have a huge bust rate because of it.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

I know this has been said before so here's another post [url=http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/5/1/2147219/dont-be-surprised-if-vince-young-becomes-a-redskin]Don't be Surprised if Vince Young Becomes a Redskin - Hogs Haven[/url]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

The same idea is going for Orton and Ponder. If it is any of them it better be Ponder.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=musicmaster45;800166][url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/680705-2011s-top-15-college-quarterbacks-selected-in-next-years-2012-nfl-draft]Best College Quarterbacks That Will Be Selected in Next Year's 2012 NFL Draft | Bleacher Report[/url]

Here is next years quarterbacks. Some solid talent. I like Kellen Moore.[/quote]

Lol, next years class always > this years class.

Barkley will return to school in 2012. Put it this way, not even NCAA sanctions could get Barkley to transfer away from USC and 2012 will be the first year that the Trojans will be bowl eligible. I seriously doubt that someone as highly touted as Barkley will bolt for the NFL.

Jones will probalby follow Bradfords lead and go back to school as well, especially with the rookie wage scale that will be in place for next years draft. Besides Leinart, Bradford, and Locker have all demonstrated that going back to school, even if you loose the national title, get injured, or have a terrible year, you will never fall lower then 10 once you become projected as a top 5 pick.

So after 2 of the top 3 return to school and 100% of people finally realize that Luck is out of reach then 2013 will become the best QB class ever.

Maybe it's the right decision to hold out on a QB, maybe it's not, but it is virtually guaranteed that a good amount of Skin fans will call the 2012 QB class weak especially when compared to the class that will be projected in 2013. Then in 2013 the cycle will begin anew.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;800196]Lol, next years class always > this years class.

Barkley will return to school in 2012. Put it this way, not even NCAA sanctions could get Barkley to transfer away from USC and 2012 will be the first year that the Trojans will be bowl eligible. I seriously doubt that someone as highly touted as Barkley will bolt for the NFL.

Jones will probalby follow Bradfords lead and go back to school as well, especially with the rookie wage scale that will be in place for next years draft. Besides Leinart, Bradford, and Locker have all demonstrated that going back to school, even if you loose the national title, get injured, or have a terrible year, you will never fall lower then 10 once you become projected as a top 5 pick.

So after 2 of the top 3 return to school and 100% of people finally realize that Luck is out of reach then 2013 will become the best QB class ever.

Maybe it's the right decision to hold out on a QB, maybe it's not, but it is virtually guaranteed that a good amount of Skin fans will call the 2012 QB class weak especially when compared to the class that will be projected in 2013.[/quote]Well, at least between 2009 and 2012, its been true every single season that next years class>this years class.

Three consecutive years doesn't make a trend but that doesn't mean the people who said it are wrong.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

vince young isnt any good. id rather stick with what we have than go for him.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

John "dilligaf" Beck, omg, wtf.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=Big C;800198]vince young isnt any good. id rather stick with what we have than go for him.[/quote]

Really? Former ROY and has a winning record

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;800197]Well, at least between 2009 and 2012, its been true every single season that next years class>this years class.

Three consecutive years doesn't make a trend but that doesn't mean the people who said it are wrong.[/quote]

Well I guess you're right. However I feel like the reasons for constantly lobbying for the next years class aren't pure. Like people are saying it just to say it, rather then actually meaning it.

Also I can get on board with Beck on two conditions. One we fix the running game. And two Beck gives up on the Trump style comb over. If you're going to be the face of the franchise then shave it off. Bald is beautiful, just ask Matt Schuab....okay maybe not beautiful but hey at least you'll put up pro bowl numbers in this system.
[IMG]http://fantasy.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/fantasy-football-week-8-start-em-sit-em-matt-schaub.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnJETEbrEZNvoYwAuG3Qa0h7lbrC-1338OafF0yydmoz-E4A53[/IMG]

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;800201]Really? Former ROY and has a winning record[/quote]

Yeah. I don't particularly like Young because I think he is limited in reading defenses, is not always accurate, lacks a work ethic, and is not mentally tough. But somehow he manages to win fairly consistently and that is the bottom line.

In a strange way he reminds me of the old "Wobble and Win with Billy" bumper stickers.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;800201]Really? Former ROY and has a winning record[/QUOTE]

I hate the winning record stat. No offense, but I'd rather hear about Youngs mobility and arm strength. Not his winning record. Put it this way, Kerry Collins had a 12-3 record as a starter in 2008. Does that mean he's better then VY? Also his winning record is mostly from beating cup cakes. Against teams that made the playoffs his record was 5-10 (as of 11/2010). So even if the winning record does hold weight I don't want to rely on it.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

Based on the draft I do see us in play for VY as well as the Bengals. I also see us in the mix for Namdi at corner.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

What about T Jax, Dennis Dixon, or Matt Moore

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

^ I mean what other QB is out there? Palmer? So yeah I'd say VY is our Main target.

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=GMScud;800182]I love that he's been training with Drew Brees and Aaron Rogers during the offseason.

I've got my fingers crossed that Beck shines for us. Not sure he's a franchise-type guy, but it sounds like Shanny loves the kid. The fact that we didn't select even one QB reinforces that.[/quote]

Hopefully that helps him a lot, no doubt.

I'm not sure I'll say it's a reinforcement quite yet. There are a number of possible scenarios: we wanted a guy or two and missed him, didn't want to "settle" .. we have our eyes on a FA or trade for a vet ... or that we're happy with what we have

I doubt that we go in with Grossman, Beck, and a UDFA are our 3

at least we have things like this to look forward to

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=musicmaster45;800195]The same idea is going for Orton and Ponder. If it is any of them it better be Ponder.[/quote]

I can't see Minny taking Ponder at 12 then trading him for McNabb.. or McNabb and a pick, unless it's a first

I think they know Ponder isn't a first year starter and want McNabb in front of him and Webb

Re: Redskins 2011 Starting Quarterback: John Beck?
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;800201]Really? Former ROY and has a winning record[/quote]

He sucks, that why the Titans don't want him. Was Kordell Stewart great? Same shit.