Re: Welcome Home Spags!!!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;417139]You do realize that Spags would no longer have the luxury of having ends like Strahan, Umenyora, Tuck and Kiwanuka, right?

How do you think he will fare with the likes of Philip Daniels, Andre Carter, Demetric Evans and Chris Wilson?[/quote]

The Redskins would have to address that regardless of whether Fassel or Spags is running the joint. We need to upgrade our DL.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Don't you think anyone coming in would want their own coaching staff?

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Dude on PTI said that Spags should be the HC by wednesday, and then he mentioned Cowher... I thought Cowher was ruled out and that "Fassel is expected to be hired"

Does he know something we dont know? I am so sick of waiting.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=wolfeskins;416834]that's what i'm saying. screw spags, i want to trade the skins front 4 for the giants front 4.[/quote]


Lol.......................ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=Stuck in TX;417507]Dude on PTI said that Spags should be the HC by wednesday, and then he mentioned Cowher... I thought Cowher was ruled out and that "Fassel is expected to be hired"

Does he know something we dont know? I am so sick of waiting.[/quote]


PTI= Kornhieser was joking .....he does'nt know .Why would spags come here after you hired a DC already,would'nt he want to put in his own system?

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;417505]Don't you think anyone coming in would want their own coaching staff?[/QUOTE]


One would think under normal circumstances that would be the case, however the situation in question is not normal. The staff here is already in place except for the HC, and whoever that ultimately becomes has to be on board with that.

Spagnuolo just did a brief interview on NBC 4 and he mentioned something I found significant, and sometrhing that has been quoted here. He said it was only one game, and it was more about those guys in the locker room than it was about him. I thought that to be a good and proper analysis.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;417512]PTI= Kornhieser was joking .....he does'nt know .Why would spags come here after you hired a DC already,would'nt he want to put in his own system?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. it'll be fassel or mooch.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417253]Though admittedly it's a long shot primarily because of his age, I[B] don't see why he doesn't have the potential to be one of the greatest ever.[/B] I mean he's accomplished far more than Belichick did when he and the Brown parted ways.[/QUOTE]


The guy you were responding to did not say that Spagnuolo "doesn't have the potential to be the greatest ever." In fact, he was saying that the sheer chance that Spanguolo could be such a coach made him a more exciting choice for HC than a guy who has been fired from his last two jobs (the second being a coordinator job). He then qualified his comment about Spagnuolo's potential by saying that his thoughts might be "illogical," a qualification I'm guessing he thought necessary lest he get slammed by you and others for suggesting that Spanguolo had such potential.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=BringBackJoeT;417536]The guy you were responding to did not say that Spagnuolo "doesn't have the potential to be the greatest ever." In fact, he was saying that the sheer chance that Spanguolo could be such a coach made him a more exciting choice for HC than a guy who has been fired from his last two jobs (the second being a coordinator job). He then qualified his comment about Spagnuolo's potential by saying that his thoughts might be "illogical," a qualification I'm guessing he thought necessary lest he get slammed by you and others for suggesting that Spanguolo had such potential.[/QUOTE]

I think you completely misread my post

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;417512]PTI= Kornhieser was joking .....he does'nt know .[/QUOTE]



I am begining to wonder if even VC or DS knows... if it is fassel why havnt they announced it yet? I honestly thought I would wake up to news of some kind. Something smells funny and if after waiting all this time its Fassel, I will be pretty upset.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417226]I don't see how Spags is the better option than Fassel for this team.

1. Fassel has experience not only as a head coach but as a head coach in NYC (well technically East Rutherford, but still), and he was successful

2. Fassel has experience developing young QBs, and he was successful

3. While Blache can help Spagnuolo out if he's hired, who will help Zorn out?[/quote]

I think it's a bit naive to think that Fassel is the answer for this team, and I never thought he was that great of a coach with the Giants. He also flopped miserably as the OC of the Ravens. Look, his greatest success with the Giants came with John Fox and Sean Payton on his staff which certainly helped make him look a lot better than he actually was.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;417262]People are making a lot of assumptions that Cowher would want the Redskins job.. If the Panthers job is open next year, which it probably will be outside of a NFC Championship Game run, that's his first choice. Richardson can match Snyder $$ for $$ for a salary and it's closer to home.

Also, Cowher is a Scottenheimer disciple and a close personal friend of his. After seeing what Marty went thru while he was here what makes you think he'll be in a rush to be here.

Not to mention with Cerrato's new title, Cowher is only going somewhere with total control so Snyder would have to demote/fire Vinny. Do you see that happening?[/QUOTE]

Well, Snyder stood by while Schottenheimer fired Vinny back in '01. It's not like it's never happened. There's a small part of me that believes Snyder has basically said this is put up or shut up time for Vinny. Give him the appropriate titles, let him call (almost) all the shots, and if things don't turn around, Snyder has his scapegoat.

We all have a price. So does Cowher. Snyder has enough money to lure him here with or without complete control. There just aren't too many owners who are willing to get into a bidding war with Lil' Danny. If Danny wants him, Danny gets him unless Bill Cowher is absolutely repulsed by the idea of working for him.

Certainly it's not a foregone conclusion that this is where Cowher is headed. For the record, I'm not one of his biggest fans.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417586]I think it's a bit naive to think that Fassel is the answer for this team, and I never thought he was that great of a coach with the Giants. [B]He also flopped miserably as the OC of the Ravens. [/B]Look, his greatest success with the Giants came with John Fox and Sean Payton on his staff which certainly helped make him look a lot better than he actually was.[/QUOTE]

The Ravens are cursed offensively. That happens to many offensive geniuses when they go to Baltimore. They've just never had the personnel.

Wasn't it Fassel who recognized the abilities of Fox and Peyton and hired them?

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;417593]The Ravens are cursed offensively. That happens to many offensive geniuses when they go to Baltimore. They've just never had the personnel.

Wasn't it Fassel who recognized the abilities of Fox and Peyton and hired them?[/quote]

If he's such an offensive genius he would have found a way to make it work. The personnel argument is just plain obligatory. I don't doubt that he probably had some excellent advice and a lot of good fortune when he decided to hire Fox and Payton I wouldn't say that he was soley responsible for those hires.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Fassel has done plenty in his career as a position coach, coordinator, and head coach to prove himself.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

I think I want Spags because then maybe we would finally get some studs for the def line

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

spags had one hellava game plan-the pats o is going down as one of the best in the history of the game, may be the best ever offnese if not #1 then #2 the 49er's o of the 80' was great like that lot of weapons, but spags completely shut down Brady and the patriots.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417603]Fassel has done plenty in his career as a position coach, coordinator, and head coach to prove himself.[/quote]

What, like blowing a 24 point lead to the 49ers in a playoff game, being a absolute dog as the Ravens OC, and getting blown out in Super Bowl 35? I'm tired of recycled coaches, and Fassel is not even close to the optimal choice if Synder is going to go down this tired road again.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417617]What, like blowing a 24 point lead to the 49ers in a playoff game, being a absolute dog as the Ravens OC, and getting blown out in Super Bowl 35? I'm tired of recycled coaches, and Fassel is not even close to the optimal choice if Synder is going to go down this tired road again.[/QUOTE]

"Recycled" coaches have had some pretty good success (as I and other have noted earlier) their second time around.

As for the Super Bowl knock, when is the last time we were even in the Super Bowl?

People want to talk about getting crushed by the Ravens but what about what they did to get there? They hammered Daunte Culpepper, Cris Carter, Randy Moss and the rest of the high powered Vikings to the tune of 41-0 in the NFC Championship game.

As for what he's done as a QB coach,

([url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2003-09-20-oconnor_x.htm]Phil Simms[/url]): "The things I learned from Jim Fassel late in my career, if I could've known those things in college, I would've been setting records. As far as fundamentally teaching me how to play the position physically, Jim is the best I've ever been around. I took everything he taught me and used it."

([url=http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.jsp?release_id=1260]John Elway[/url])"I thought I was a pretty good quarterback when I got to Stanford. As things turned out, I had a lot to learn. Thankfully, Jim Fassel was there to teach me the techniques that got me to the NFL and carried me through 16 seasons. Little did I know that nearly 15 years later, we’d be reunited with the Broncos."

Fassel was the OC of the Broncos in 1993 where they had the 3rd ranked offense and John Elway threw for over 4,000 yards with 25 TDs and 10 INTs. The only time the HOF'er threw for more than 4,000 yards in a season in his career

His first year as head coach of the Giants he won a division title with Danny Kannel as his QB. Danny Kannel!

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417630]

As for what he's done as a QB coach,

([url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2003-09-20-oconnor_x.htm]Phil Simms[/url]): "The things I learned from Jim Fassel late in my career, if I could've known those things in college, I would've been setting records. As far as fundamentally teaching me how to play the position physically, Jim is the best I've ever been around. I took everything he taught me and used it."

([url=http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.jsp?release_id=1260]John Elway[/url])"I thought I was a pretty good quarterback when I got to Stanford. As things turned out, I had a lot to learn. Thankfully, Jim Fassel was there to teach me the techniques that got me to the NFL and carried me through 16 seasons. Little did I know that nearly 15 years later, we’d be reunited with the Broncos."

Fassel was the OC of the Broncos in 1993 where they had the 3rd ranked offense and John Elway threw for over 4,000 yards with 25 TDs and 10 INTs. The only time the HOF'er threw for more than 4,000 yards in a season in his career

His first year as head coach of the Giants he won a division title with Danny Kannel as his QB. Danny Kannel![/QUOTE]

He better have developed two first round pick QB's one of them #1 overall pick (Elway). I'll give the Danny Kannel credit, but I still don't buy into his coaching resume. I pray that he's not our next HC, give me Mooch, Meeks or Spags!!

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Why are Meeks, Spags, and Mooch all better choices?

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417633]Why are Meeks, Spags, and Mooch all better choices?[/QUOTE]

Mooch because of what I saw here in SF, plus he got screwed during ownership change. Meeks and Spags because they are hungry unproven coaches (fresh faces) and the unknown factor, both are solid coordinators with years experience. Kind of like when Gibbs was hired his first time. I hate to be biased but Fassel has coaching baggage, just my opinion.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;417634]Mooch because of what I saw here in SF, plus he got screwed during ownership change. Meeks and Spags because they are hungry unproven coaches (fresh faces) and the unknown factor, both are solid coordinators with years experience. Kind of like when Gibbs was hired his first time. I hate to be biased but Fassel has coaching baggage, just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

So basically what Fassel has proven is less impressive than what Meeks and Spags might one day possibly prove?

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417640]So basically what Fassel has proven is less impressive than what Meeks and Spags might one day possibly prove?[/QUOTE]

That's the unknown, in my opinion that's the fun of it. Fassel has had coaching chances, it's these new guys turn. What have we got to lose that we haven't already by letting Saunders and Williams go?

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;417641]That's the unknown, in my opinion that's the fun of it. Fassel has had coaching chances, it's these new guys turn. What have we got to lose that we haven't already by letting Saunders and Williams go?[/QUOTE]

Fair point I suppose. But what about those who have had coaching chances and suceeded with their second head coaching opportunity? And if people were so adamant about giving Williams the head coaching job, why isn't he considered a "retread"

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

It's not coaches, it personnel that wins in this league. I don't see anyone getting more out of our defensive personnel than Greg Williams did. Blache will come close. I don't see
any value added in Spaggs. At this point I prefer another offensive mind. I'll take Fossil and get on with it already.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417643]Fair point I suppose. But what about those who have had coaching chances and suceeded with their second head coaching opportunity? And if people were so adamant about giving Williams the head coaching job, why isn't he considered a "retread"[/QUOTE]

Fair point also. I guess people like Williams since he proved himself with us and his aggressive personality, Fassel's personality is more like Norv, just bland. Belichick was a great DC, same goes for Williams and Spags is starting to show promise, Fassel was a good OC but I wouldn't put him in the class of great. We need someone with fire in their belly.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417630]"Recycled" coaches have had some pretty good success (as I and other have noted earlier) their second time around.

As for the Super Bowl knock, when is the last time we were even in the Super Bowl?

People want to talk about getting crushed by the Ravens but what about what they did to get there? They hammered Daunte Culpepper, Cris Carter, Randy Moss and the rest of the high powered Vikings to the tune of 41-0 in the NFC Championship game.

As for what he's done as a QB coach,

([URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2003-09-20-oconnor_x.htm"]Phil Simms[/URL]): "The things I learned from Jim Fassel late in my career, if I could've known those things in college, I would've been setting records. As far as fundamentally teaching me how to play the position physically, Jim is the best I've ever been around. I took everything he taught me and used it."

([URL="http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.jsp?release_id=1260"]John Elway[/URL])"I thought I was a pretty good quarterback when I got to Stanford. As things turned out, I had a lot to learn. Thankfully, Jim Fassel was there to teach me the techniques that got me to the NFL and carried me through 16 seasons. Little did I know that nearly 15 years later, we’d be reunited with the Broncos."

Fassel was the OC of the Broncos in 1993 where they had the 3rd ranked offense and John Elway threw for over 4,000 yards with 25 TDs and 10 INTs. The only time the HOF'er threw for more than 4,000 yards in a season in his career

His first year as head coach of the Giants he won a division title with Danny Kannel as his QB. Danny Kannel![/quote]

Yeah, recycled coaches have done wonders for us haven't they? Gibbs has been the only one with any modicum of success, and he just happened to be a Hall of Famer. As for Simms and Elway, they would've been darn good even if I had coached them. As for Danny Kannel and the boys, some teams just get by with smoke and mirrors sometimes, especially in the free agent era.

List of failed recycled coaches over the last 10 few years (note: these guys didn't even sniff the playoffs in their second go round):

Dennis Green
George Seifert
Steve Mariucci (have no earthly idea why we are considering this bum)
Mike Ditka
Dennis Erickson
Dom Capers
Bruce Coslett

P.S. Jim Fassel is pretty much of the same caliber as these guys listed, which is why he'd be a disastrous choice for a franchise looking to build on some recent, rare momentum.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417652]

List of failed recycled coaches over the last 10 few years (note: these guys didn't even sniff the playoffs in their second go round):

Dennis Green
George Seifert
Steve Mariucci (have no earthly idea why we are considering this bum)
Mike Ditka
Dennis Erickson
Dom Capers
Bruce Coslett

P.S. Jim Fassel is pretty much of the same caliber as these guys.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget Marty, Chris Palmer.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417652]Yeah, recycled coaches have done wonders for us haven't they? Gibbs has been the only one with any modicum of success, and he just happened to be a Hall of Famer. As for Simms and Elway, they would've been darn good even if I had coached them. As for Danny Kannel and the boys, some teams just get by with smoke and mirrors sometimes, especially in the free agent era.

List of failed recycled coaches over the last 10 few years (note: these guys didn't even sniff the playoffs in their second go round):

Dennis Green
George Seifert
Steve Mariucci (have no earthly idea why we are considering this bum)
Mike Ditka
Dennis Erickson
Dom Capers
Bruce Coslett

P.S. Jim Fassel is pretty much of the same caliber as these guys listed, which is why he'd be a disastrous choice for a franchise looking to build on some recent rare momentum.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I think we can agree that plenty of retread coaches have been very successful, and others not so much.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Spag is a good DC but he had a ferocious D-line this season to help him out, he will be a good HC in the future but I dont think he is ready just yet.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ChillWill;417644] At this point I prefer another offensive mind. I'll take Fossil and get on with it already.[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with a defensive minded coach? Del Rio, Crennel, Dungy, Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Lovie Smith, Wade Phillips (I'll throw him in) are no slouches.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417655]Fair enough. I think we can agree that plenty of retread coaches have been very successful, and others not so much.[/quote]

Name me the coaches who have been overwhelmingly successful besides the two coaches we saw last night as well as Tony Dungy? None really jump out at me in recent years.

P.S. Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

dungy wasnt the coach and he couldnt get to the SB with the same players

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;417659]What's wrong with a defensive minded coach? Del Rio, Crennel, Dungy, Belichick, Tomlin, Fisher, Lovie Smith, Wade Phillips (I'll throw him in) are no slouches.[/QUOTE]

I think because of Blache. If not, then sure Meeks or Spags would be a good choice. But then you'd have a rookie HC and a rookie OC (Zorn)

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;417668]I think because of Blache. If not, then sure Meeks or Spags would be a good choice. But then you'd have a rookie HC and a rookie OC (Zorn)[/QUOTE]

I don't think Blache would mind, wasn't he about to retire? I would rather have a hungry rookie HC and OC than Fassel as HC.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417660]Name me the coaches who have been overwhelmingly successful besides the two coaches we saw last night as well as Tony Dungy? None really jump out at me in recent years.

P.S. Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl with Dungy's team[/QUOTE]

How about Mike Shanahan, Norv Turner did ok this year (though I still maintain they won in spite of him), Wade Phillips' Cowboys were 13-3 this year (regardless of whether you think it was all because of Jason Garrett, doesn't take away from the fact that Phillips was the coach)

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;417679]How about Mike Shanahan, Norv Turner did ok this year (though I still maintain they won in spite of him), Wade Phillips' Cowboys were 13-3 this year (regardless of whether you think it was all because of Jason Garrett, doesn't take away from the fact that Phillips was the coach)[/quote]

Shanahan is not a recent retread, heck the last Super Bowl he won with Denver was almost ten years ago. As for Norval, he inherited a wealth of talent in SD, and Wade couldn't get the Cowgirls to their first playoff win in over 12 years despite having home-field advantage.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;417683]As for Norval, he inherited a wealth of talent in SD, and Wade couldn't get the Cowgirls to their first playoff win in over 12 years despite home-field advantage.[/QUOTE]

Give Norval credit he took them further than my favorite retread (Marty) and Wade with the talent on that team.... Same as it ever was.

Re: Spagnuolo is looking good (Defense)
 

Fine. We're just going to go in circles about this. I think of the four known choices remaining Fassel is the best fit for this team and I think there are enough examples in recent (last two) years, coupled with Fassel's experience and succcess, that say Fassel can do very well as our head coach.

But I understand that he's the anti-flavor of the month