Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;206867]SUPERBOWL OR BUST!!! ALL YOU LAME DOUBTERS WILL NOW REALIZE WE ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH MEDIOCRE... SNYDER/ GIBBS WILL DO WHAT IT TAKES TO BRING THE LOMBARDI TO WASHINGTON, AND NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!

As for those who think Duckett is not worth a third ATL has had the best running game overall the past to 2 seasons and with AL Saunders as our Head Coach Offense noone will be able to stop this offense when the season comes around!!!![/quote]

because of dunn and vick. duckett sucked in that offense.

I don't really like it, but i guess it means that portis is hurt a bit worse than initially thought or that the nemo/manny white/lumsden experiment is over. then again, they might just not be playing lumsden on purpose so they can practice squad him without concerns of having him picked off.

i hate how we never have any draft picks :/

i'd like to hear byner or bugel explain the move, since gibbs and saunders are politicians and completely worthless for information.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

It seems that the run is just that critical to Al's offense that bringing in Duckett will force defenses to roll the dice even more. B/c he is a tough guy to bring down.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

Well lets see here. Ducket is a power back used on the goal line. Some think sellers can handle the running there but who will be HB? Cooley? Then we will need two blocking TEs and we don't have one. Now follow me and imagine......

You are lavar. It is december 30th and its 4th and goal and you are up by 6 and there is 15 seconds left. The game matters for the division title. The ball is hiked and you see the hole and go to plug it(strahan has helped you practice this quite a bit) but you see BIG MIKE SELLERS coming at you blocking for TJ. At that very moment you think to yourself, "sheeeeeet".

Can't stop the sellers duckett combination on any goalline


Saunders wants TJ, Saunders gets TJ.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

So Betts has to be traded. Two picks for a guy we didn't need all that much? I mean there is a need for him but not a huge one. We should have been dealing from a position of leverage. Duckett wanted out and Lelie wanted out. We held the cards really. There has to be a greater plan here because we simply didn't need him so much. Sellers can handle the banging and Betts is an adequate backup. I am certainly not convinced that Duckett brings that much more to the table other than he has alittle more wiggle and overall ability than Sellers and is tougher than Betts. Seems like a huge price to pay for a minor upgrade.

I gotta think Betts gets traded. Too bad the Jets already made a trade. Love to know what they gave up for Barlow. I would think Betts would garner a slightly better deal.

Who else needs a back?

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I don't care what happens if we have to give up a 1st and 3rd for TJ then it is a BAD DEAL. There is no reasonable scenario in which a 1st and 3rd is acceptable.

As someone said earlier; a 1st and 3rd gets you a back like D. Davis at least.

We keep portis, betts, duckett...and rock for specail teams?
 

So...we keep Rock because he plays well on special teams? I thought we kept folks for positions, and if there were 2 that were similar the one that plays special teams got the position.

I really don't think we keep portis betts duckett and rock too, just because he plays special teams. Seriously, we only have 53 spots and less than 1 tackle a game on special teams doesn't make a roster spot worth while. What is the chance Joe Gibbs will keep a player on this roster because he plays on special teams?

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

After readng a bit more it seems we wont be trading 2 picks. It sounds like we'd send one pick (the 3rd) ans potentially swap a pick in another round depending on record. If we are better we swap 4ths and if they are better then we swap 1sts. I guess it justs equals out some value in the trade.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;206946]I don't care what happens if we have to give up a 1st and 3rd for TJ then it is a BAD DEAL. There is no reasonable scenario in which a 1st and 3rd is acceptable.

As someone said earlier; a 1st and 3rd gets you a back like D. Davis at least.[/QUOTE]

Something went very wrong if we don't finish higher then Denver!!!

Re: We keep portis, betts, duckett...and rock for specail teams?
 

[QUOTE=onebum;206947]So...we keep Rock because he plays well on special teams? I thought we kept folks for positions, and if there were 2 that were similar the one that plays special teams got the position.

I really don't think we keep portis betts duckett and rock too, just because he plays special teams. Seriously, we only have 53 spots and less than 1 tackle a game on special teams doesn't make a roster spot worth while. What is the chance Joe Gibbs will keep a player on this roster because he plays on special teams?[/QUOTE]

Young guys with potential make the team if they only play special teams. See L. Marshall and A. Pierce as examples. I would think a guy like Rock does not fit that category.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

Picture this: the 5 linemen down, Fauria on the line at TE on the left side, Moss on the line wide right, cooley in the wing on the right side, sellers at FB and Duck at tailback.

Cooley goes in motion, ball snaps and cooley wrecks the DE or LB with a crackback block from motion, Randy Thomas pulls left...Bascially you have Fauria, Samuels, and Dockery off the line, Thomas pulling around, and sellers coming from the backfield...the poor fella not already taken would have Duckett to tackle. And if they stack it up to TRY and out muscle us we have hard nosed recievers that will go for the ball regaurdless of the hit coming....yeah, i'm loving this trade.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

rock is ssuper cheap for quite a few years (new contract), betts is going to waNt more money. duckett i believe is on his rookie deal till 2007, but i'm not sure if the skins are giving him a new one.

he's got a great stiff arm and he's surprisingly fast, but i eriously doubt we'll beat denver's record. We're playing in the NFC East and they've probably got a better (top 5 in BOTH O an D the last couple years, or close to it).

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;206948]After readng a bit more it seems we wont be trading 2 picks. It sounds like we'd send one pick (the 3rd) ans potentially swap a pick in another round depending on record. If we are better we swap 4ths and if they are better then we swap 1sts. I guess it justs equals out some value in the trade.[/QUOTE]

I just read the Rocky Mt News and you are dead right. We now must finish ahead of Denver this season or they get our third pick and we trade #1's. If we finish better then Denver they get our #3 pick and our #4 in 08 because we don't have one in 07 right?

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=onebum;206951]Picture this: the 5 linemen down, Fauria on the line at TE on the left side, Moss on the line wide right, cooley in the wing on the right side, sellers at FB and Duck at tailback.

Cooley goes in motion, ball snaps and cooley wrecks the DE or LB with a crackback block from motion, Randy Thomas pulls left...Bascially you have Fauria, Samuels, and Dockery off the line, Thomas pulling around, and sellers coming from the backfield...the poor fella not already taken would have Duckett to tackle. And if they stack it up to TRY and out muscle us we have hard nosed recievers that will go for the ball regaurdless of the hit coming....yeah, i'm loving this trade.[/quote]

in straight up goal line we'd use robert johnson as the 3rd blocking TE instead of having moss out there.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;206952]rock is ssuper cheap for quite a few years (new contract), betts is going to waNt more money. duckett i believe is on his rookie deal till 2007, but i'm not sure if the skins are giving him a new one.

he's got a great stiff arm and he's surprisingly fast, but i eriously doubt we'll beat denver's record. We're playing in the NFC East and they've probably got a better (top 5 in BOTH O an D the last couple years, or close to it).[/QUOTE]

if Betts leaves after this season we get nothing right? But Duckett we would get a pick if he moved on right?

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

Just curious: Does anyone know if Duckett plays ST as a wedge buster?

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I know it is a horrible point to make but if saunders and gibbs wanted ducket then I would have to think that they are right. They got him for a reason. Snyder doesn't make the decisions anymore. Our coaching staff is the best ever and we have two offensive masterminds at work so i would trust their judgement and assessment of our running situation.

Re: We keep portis, betts, duckett...and rock for specail teams?
 

[quote=FRPLG;206950]Young guys with potential make the team if they only play special teams. See L. Marshall and A. Pierce as examples. I would think a guy like Rock does not fit that category.[/quote]

I agree that young guys with potential make the team if they play special teams AND have prospect for their positions. Thats why you keep the young ones that play Spec Tms, you know what the old guys can do while they young ones you don't know if they will be good or not.

Basically because rock plays special teams he gets a roster spot? There are 3 guys at his position that are better than him. we have 3 others that might be better than him, time will tell. We know what he can do on the field, and he isn't a starting caliber running back in my opinion. The other 6 are either good enough to start or have the potential to be good enough to start and only time will tell, while we know he isn't good enough to start.

3 start worthy, 3 might be's, and 1 we know doesn't have starting talent. If we lose/cut/deal/trade/transfer/reassign/demote/promote betts I think Rock will stick around to play Spec Teams and have his 1-2 carries a game. Its just my opinion that as the RB list stands, Rock is the odd man out.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;206912]Wouldnt he be able to share information about our offense with people? Maybe he's not doing as well as we thought in that. Or do you think Cartwright might be the guy to go?[/quote]

cartwright is cheap. the minimum guys don't move nearly as much and he just got a new 3 year deal. I wouldn't worry about sharing info. it'd be worthless if we played the team he went to, and if we didn't, it just wouldn't matter. I don't think RBs focus on the entire play the way QBs do either.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=Tahoe Skin;206956]Just curious: Does anyone know if Duckett plays ST as a wedge buster?[/quote]

sellers does, and duckett is quite a bit faster... it'd be interesting to see.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

That would be a hell of a goal line backfield to have Sellers lead block for Duckett, or vise versa...

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;206960]sellers does, and duckett is quite a bit faster... it'd be interesting to see.[/QUOTE]

That's why I asked. Seeing sellers and duckett side by side as wedgebusters would be totally awesome!

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=That Guy;206954]in straight up goal line we'd use robert johnson as the 3rd blocking TE instead of having moss out there.[/quote]

thanks for pointing that out i guess, and i'm sorry my hypothetical situation was wrong. Moss would never be in the game in a goal line situation when we run the ball is what you're saying?

When running the ball in teams use all sorts of formations...some bring in an extra offensive lineman to line up where the TE usually does and they have the TE line up as a wing next to him. That means 6 Linemen, 2 TEs, 2 RBs in an I formation thats stronger than having 3 TEs. One team even brought in a Defensive Tackle to play in that spot last year for goal line runs. Also teams/the redskins sometimes keep recievers in down at the goal line while running too. there are many packages, not just 3 TEs, you shoulda mentioned that while correcting my post.

Many player packages are used while running at the goal line, not only the one I mentioned. I didn't think I needed to mention that, but I was wrong.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I think we will keep Betts in case Portis doesn't heal. Duckett is a great red zone option.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

Here's a possibility:

Mc2guy reviewed the game tapes and then posted. (Post 83 in thread "Any Positives from Tonights Game".) He said that Betts was very slow to hit the holes, up to 5 yards behind Sellers, and that the holes had closed by the time he got there. If you are the coaching staff and that's the case, what do you do? You get someone faster (Duckett) and, since Betts has good trade value, use him to get an important backup. I assume they're seeing the same weakness in the backups as we are. I don't see us getting that much trade value out of Rock.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

how about our other backs
manuel white, rock and nemo

plus betts

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=onebum;206968]thanks for pointing that out i guess, and i'm sorry my hypothetical situation was wrong. Moss would never be in the game in a goal line situation when we run the ball is what you're saying?

When running the ball in teams use all sorts of formations...some bring in an extra offensive lineman to line up where the TE usually does and they have the TE line up as a wing next to him. That means 6 Linemen, 2 TEs, 2 RBs in an I formation thats stronger than having 3 TEs. One team even brought in a Defensive Tackle to play in that spot last year for goal line runs. Also teams/the redskins sometimes keep recievers in down at the goal line while running too. there are many packages, not just 3 TEs, you shoulda mentioned that while correcting my post.

Many player packages are used while running at the goal line, not only the one I mentioned. I didn't think I needed to mention that, but I was wrong.[/quote]

I wasn't correcting you i was just saying if you want a straight goal line "we're going to run and we're letting you know it" formation, we have another blocking TE. I don't think any of our backup OL have shown useful enough to be the 6th guy in that situation yet.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=bertoskins2;206974]how about our other backs
manuel white, rock and nemo

plus betts[/quote]

manny and nemo will be lucky to make the team at all.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

This deal DOEs make sense. INSURANCE for Portis and the running game, and look at his numbers PEOPLE!!! Come on! What's not to like???A 3rd rounder next year??? I like Betts, but they coulf get a 3rd rounder for him, if it comes to that.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I can't say our team "This Year" is hurt by the acquisition of Duckett, However I fear the down the road implications. Our habit of trading away picks is discouraging, considering the high level of coaching ability.

What's this "first rounder if our record is worse than denver?" B-S. In no way is Duckett worth a first rounder... especially with our coaching staff's talent.

Im concerned, but alas... I must always trust in Gibbs.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

i think if the FO gets him re-signed, Duckett will be a valuable asset for years to come. we've been looking for that short yard/goal line back for a while now- all the potential backs for that role are still question marks... we know what we're getting with TJ.

at the very least, he's gonna spell Portis and start whenever CP's injured. He's had a very good preseason (judging from the stats and Atl. camp reports). if he's re-signed, the goal line is one less thing to worry about. Yes, we've given up another set of draft picks... but i'm used to it by now.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

On the surface, you love to see T.J. Duckett on the team; he compliments Portis for a great change of pace, can stand alone if Portis is out for any time, he gives you great short yardage ability, has real speed and size. I can see some special things this year with him in the backfield.

However, what is the price? Quite possibly a first round and a third round draft choice next year? For a player that may well sign for another team before next Denver makes those choices. His contract ends at the conclusion of this season.

How about this headline - May 2007: "DUCKETT TO DENVER" Redskin backup T.J. Duckett signed with Denver this offseason after one year in DC.

We gave up too much for T.J. Duckett in my opinion.

Certainly we will be looking for good trades for Betts, because he will also be gone after this season.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

The eagles site was saying its a 3rd and 4th if our record is better than denver's. if our record is worse we trade 1sts which gives them a higher pick and give them a 3rd

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[quote=steveo395;206881][B]Broncos | Team could receive two first-day draft picks for Lelie[/B]
Tue, 22 Aug 2006 19:38:03 -0700
Updating previous reports, Jeff Legwold, of the [URL="http://www.kffl.com/link/168"][COLOR=#0000ff]Rocky Mountain News[/COLOR][/URL], reports the [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/15/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Denver Broncos[/COLOR][/URL] could receive two first-day draft picks from the [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/37/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Washington Redskins[/COLOR][/URL] in the three-team trade involving former [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/15/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Broncos[/COLOR][/URL] WR [URL="http://www.kffl.com/player/622/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Ashley Lelie[/COLOR][/URL]. If the [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/37/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL] finish with a worse record than the [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/15/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Broncos[/COLOR][/URL] in 2006, Denver would receive the Redskins' first- and third-round picks. If the [URL="http://www.kffl.com/team/37/nfl"][COLOR=#0000ff]Redskins[/COLOR][/URL] finish with a better record than the Broncos, Denver would receive the Redskins' third- and fourth-round picks.

this is retarded...even if we finish with a better record than them...and it makes no sense[/quote]


THis is from the rocky mountain news
[quote]Based on the two teams' finish in the upcoming season the Broncos, at best, could end up with the Redskins' first- and third-round picks in the 2007 draft if the Redskins finish with a worse record than the Broncos.

In that scenario the Broncos and Redskins would flip-flop first-round picks with Denver moving up and the Redskins moving down. The Broncos would then get the Redskins third-round pick as well.

If the Redskins finish with a better record than the Broncos, Denver gets the Redskins' third- and fourth-round picks next April. [/quote]

Looks like that top one is from kffl.com. It looks like they just skimmed the article from the rocky mountain. They swap firsts. This means if we suck ass next year and end up with a top 10 pick we will probably be picking in the 20s(i have the broncos going to the super bowl right now)

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

One of the eagle fans said this
"one day most of you will realize that the skins OWN the salary cap and can sign whoever they want to make up for any draft pick they trade away"

[url=http://www.concretefield.com/forum/index.php?topic=17770.2340]2006 Point & Laugh at the Redskins thread[/url]

This year i have come to realize that the salary cap means nothing to us. We piss players off because we have HUGE deals that are back loaded. I remember smoot wanted a contract that was front loaded and i was pissed because it was similar in numbers with the deal the vikings gave him. I was like it is only a little more. Now it is easy to see why he didn't come to us. We didn't give him a front loaded contract, and he being a vet here noticed that he needed a front loaded contract with this crazy ass front office. We just break all our deals when they reach a little passed the half way point. We force them to resign or we trade them. This makes us very few friends with players who get upset. Some players, like samuels, will redo their contracts to stay with the team.

And as the eagle fan said, whatever we lose in the draft we make up in FA. I mean lloyd, arch, ARE, Duckett, christian, and Carter. What is that? That is insane. That is in a year that we were going to be in "CAP HELL".


Now again just think of the 3rd and 1 where we need to convert and we put duckett and sellers in. The D is going to be scared out their minds. How can you stop that line with that backfield. How? Now sellers is the master of being elusive. Last year he would get open after a short block. Everyone packs the line thinking sellers is going to block and we and maybe we will get a ton of yards. I think this is a great move. Duckett isn't a great player but he does what he does very well. He is going to be behind sellers and that is a garanteed 3 yards if you need it. The amount of times we convert this year due to TJ and sellers is making this a great trade.

I say that betts is a lesser version of portis. Betts isn't huge. He is big but nothing that is going to bruise the defenders and knock them down. We need a back-up if portis goes down and that is betts greatest role on the team. He can do it. I think rock can do it too because he is quick and if you mix him up a bit with duckett or sellers he can do the job. I see us having 4 RBs with portis and duckett being 2 of them and one of the other two being on the p-squad. If portis is hurt we can take the guy off the p-squad and make portis inactive for the week.

Now it is a big battle
lumsden
rock
betts
white
nemo

for what i see as two spots, one on the team and one on the practice squad. I see white as gone but the other 4 have huge upsides to me. I like them all. Nemo is a brusier and i think we have no need for him after duckett so i see him gone(we all like nemo). Nemo can catch though but we see duckett is fast too. That leaves lumsden rock and betts for two spots. We could keep betts and rock and drop lumsden. If we decide to make up our 3rd we could try a trade for betts. Maybe rock can pull in a 4th if we are lucky.

I have no problem with lumsden and betts with lumsden on p-squad.

I see lumsden making the team if a decent trade is available for betts or rock with lumsden being on p-squad.

For the team i think the best 4 would be lumsden, betts, duckett, and portis.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

According to ESPN's John Clayton, the draft picks escalate from a 3 and a 4 based on a "complicated formula". I thin Rocky Mountain News may be simplifying things a bit on the road to a 1st rounder.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;206835]How many third round picks do we have? It seems like every time we make a trade, it's a third round pick.[/QUOTE] It's Kinda Cool that we get 1 every year. :laughing-

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I think we've just given new meaning to our "Heavy Jumbo" package.

Sellers lead blocking for Duckett?! Lord have mercy on the defense!

People need to chill on the trade details. We're not giving up a first, we could end up [I]exchanging[/I] first round picks... big difference.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

Cool stats from [url=http://www.footballguys.com]Fantasy Football Information - Footballguys.com[/url]

From 2002-2005, T.J. Duckett is the 3rd most effective running back in the league at converting TDs at the goal line (minimum of 20 carries)...


Over that span, there have been 40 RBs with at least 20 carries at the goal line...T.J Duckett converted 22 TDs in 41 rushes, for a conversion rate of 53.7%. He trails only Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander in goal line efficiency. By contrast, Clinton Portis has converted 38.7% of his goal line carries over that span (24 TDs in 53 rushes).

1. Priest Holmes rb 2002--2005 75 45 60.0%

2. Shaun Alexander rb 2002--2005 90 51 56.7%

3. T.J. Duckett rb 2002--2005 41 22 53.7%

4. Thomas Jones rb 2002--2005 30 16 53.3%

5. Stacey Mack rb 2002--2003 21 11 52.4%

6. LaDainian Tomlinson rb 2002--2005 84 42 50.0%

7. Jerome Bettis rb 2002--2005 62 31 50.0%

8. Ahman Green rb 2002--2005 32 16 50.0%

9. Stephen Davis rb 2002--2005 50 24 48.0%

10. Kevan Barlow rb 2002--2005 23 11 47.8%

11. Larry Johnson rb 2003--2005 32 15 46.9%

12. Emmitt Smith rb 2002--2004 22 10 45.5%

13. Marshall Faulk rb 2002--2005 38 17 44.7%

14. Tiki Barber rb 2002--2005 52 23 44.2%

15. Rudi Johnson rb 2003--2005 43 19 44.2%

Portis ranks #25.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I like the trade. If Betts were the answer Duckett would have never entered the equation, plain and simple. Secondly, I haven't seen enough of Sellers to come to any real conclusion about his ability to 'run' the football in short yardage situations effectively and consistantly. Just haven't seen it.

More than anything I think Duckett gives us an immeditate, bona fide goal line threat that defenses have to respect. I envision him cut in the mold of Mike Alstott, so to speak. Perhaps he can win a game or two with his elbows! (I'm still seething over that one!) As far as us giving up too much and all this crap, the real details of the trade are sketchy at best and someone could still be traded to off set some of the picks.

Re: We traded for T.J. Duckett?
 

I'm riding the fence on this one. If Duckett wants to be the featured back then he's not staying here longer than this year. Comparing Betts and Duckett: Betts is a bit shiftier than Duckett but Duckett runs with WAY more power. We definitely should see a better 3 and 1 conversion as well as goal line improvement.

{Sigh} I really liked Betts but I guess he hasn't shown enough ability to play a prominent role on our a championship team.

If he's traded, who's our new KR?

Sellars must not have convinced the coaching staff that he can handle the ball very well. I doubt he'll be too upset, though.

Lastly, if Duckett gets the goal line carries, which he should, then I need to rethink my selection of Portis in fantasy football. The shoulder injury was enough for me to pause now I may not consider him unless I have a #7 or #8 pick.