Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=mooby;1217810]Well just look at Bruce Allen's track of record, it's easy to justify why Snyder places all his faith in him.

What's that you say? No track record of success? Are you sure?[/quote]

Im extremely concerned with this piece of shit using a 1st round draft pick on a QB when there will be All Pro talent at 15 at other positions of need.

His record on the handling of the QB position should disqualify him. He's a cancer to the position

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=Chico23231;1217816]Im extremely concerned with this piece of shit using a 1st round draft pick on a QB when there will be All Pro talent at 15 at other positions of need.

His record on the handling of the QB position should disqualify him. He's a cancer to the position[/quote]

In all fairness:

- RG3 had a fantastic rookie year and could have built on the success if not for
(1) Snyder's meddling
(2) Shanahan's stubbornness
(3) RG3's own ego
- Kirk Cousins was a fantastic pick in the 4th round
- Alex Smith was at least competent before his freak injury

Now, i'm not saying I want Bruce to pick a QB. I absolutely don't. Ideally, I want Jay and Bruce both fired after 2019 and to let our new GM/HC make a pick in 2020. I'm just trying to be fair. Under Bruce, our last few major QB acquisitions have been pretty good .... its just that the team's dysfunction (much of which BA is responsible for) and/or bad luck have ruined our chances of making the most of those QBs.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1217840]In all fairness:

- RG3 had a fantastic rookie year and could have built on the success if not for
(1) Snyder's meddling
(2) Shanahan's stubbornness
(3) RG3's own ego
- Kirk Cousins was a fantastic pick in the 4th round
- Alex Smith was at least competent before his freak injury

Now, i'm not saying I want Bruce to pick a QB. I absolutely don't. Ideally, I want Jay and Bruce both fired after 2019 and to let our new GM/HC make a pick in 2020. I'm just trying to be fair. Under Bruce, our last few major QB acquisitions have been pretty good .... its just that the team's dysfunction (much of which BA is responsible for) and/or bad luck have ruined our chances of making the most of those QBs.[/quote]

people still defending RG3 as a good QB....the bottomline, the trade and pick which Bruce is the decision maker was one of the top all time bust. The trade itself was a top retard move...set the franchise back move. RG3 never did shit after the gimmick offense was uninstalled...give Shanny and son credit, the scheme was good for a year. RG3 is and always will be a terrible bust.

Defend the McNabb Trade and Contract next?

The handling of Cousins was god awful. Could have signed him to a cheap deal.... refused. Instead of trading him when value was max...let him walk with an end of the round 3rd round pick. Basically a 4th round pick folks.


Never drafting a competent young QB to learn under Cousins while you never intended to seriously sign.

The 3rd god aweful trade, this time for an Alex Smith who was coming off career best year...while also having the top NFL rushing attack with K Hunt. NOT ONLY trading for him, but quickly signing him for a long term deal...INSTEAD of waiting to see how he performed in Jays system. Which the apologist now conveniently claim...this wasn't his fault, it just wasn't a fit. BULLSHIT.

Bruce Allen has a history of fucking up the QB position period.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1217840]In all fairness:

- RG3 had a fantastic rookie year and could have built on the success if not for
(1) Snyder's meddling
(2) Shanahan's stubbornness
(3) RG3's own ego
- Kirk Cousins was a fantastic pick in the 4th round
- Alex Smith was at least competent before his freak injury

Now, i'm not saying I want Bruce to pick a QB. I absolutely don't. Ideally, I want Jay and Bruce both fired after 2019 and to let our new GM/HC make a pick in 2020. I'm just trying to be fair. Under Bruce, our last few major QB acquisitions have been pretty good .... its just that the team's dysfunction (much of which BA is responsible for) and/or bad luck have ruined our chances of making the most of those QBs.[/quote]

1)RG3 had success from the system. The lethal read option and a literal 2 read passing game. Designed by the Shanny's. Once he couldn't really run the same he was just mediocre.
2)Cousins was Shanny's pick.
3) Alex was competent, yes.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

The RG3 trade was bad but in all fairness the Rams really didn't get much better with the picks they had. It was a lose/lose situation. He was still the most electrifying player we have had since Sean died. The Redskins were must see TV and I'll never forget his rookie year and how fun it was until the ravens game.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1217845]The RG3 trade was bad but in all fairness the Rams really didn't get much better with the picks they had. It was a lose/lose situation. He was still the most electrifying player we have had since Sean died. The Redskins were must see TV and I'll never forget his rookie year and how fun it was until the ravens game.[/quote]

the offense was amazing that year. I have a photo of NFL Live one day and the rankings were:

Yards per play: 1st
Rush YPG: 1st
Yds/pass att: 1st
Turnovers: T-2nd
INT Rate: 2nd

this was midway through the season - we still needed to win 5 or 6 straight (i think) to take the division and playoffs tho sadly

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=Meks;1217846]the offense was amazing that year. I have a photo of NFL Live one day and the rankings were:

Yards per play: 1st
Rush YPG: 1st
Yds/pass att: 1st
Turnovers: T-2nd
INT Rate: 2nd

this was midway through the season - we still needed to win 5 or 6 straight (i think) to take the division and playoffs tho sadly[/quote]

Our D was trash that yr and oddly enough hasn't changed since...

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[url]https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/mike-florio-theres-no-sense-hope-redskins[/url]

"I don't know how you stay engaged," ProFootballTalk's Mike Florio told The Sports Junkies Thursday. "Every year as a fan you look for hope. And every year you want to think that if things go your way you can make it to the playoffs and maybe get lucky and win a couple of playoff games, maybe get to the Super Bowl."

"It's just unfortunate that there isn't that same sense in Washington that there is in other cities," Florio said.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

Yeah 2012 was good but what we were doing was not sustainable. Even when we clinched against Dallas RG3 had like 100 yards passing. You don't win in the NFL doing that. And when Cousins played in Clev and Kyle ran a pro offense that day, that is really where it all went downhill.

I look at the Ravens and the same thing is going to happen to them. Jackson is going to get hurt, he'll never graduate to an NFL passer and it will flame out.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1217849]Yeah 2012 was good but what we were doing was not sustainable. Even when we clinched against Dallas RG3 had like 100 yards passing. You don't win in the NFL doing that. And when Cousins played in Clev and Kyle ran a pro offense that day, that is really where it all went downhill.

I look at the Ravens and the same thing is going to happen to them. Jackson is going to get hurt, he'll never graduate to an NFL passer and it will flame out.[/quote]

for sure, you have to be able to make the throws from the pocket in the NFL and Griff / Lamar cant do it

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=Chico23231;1217843]people still defending RG3 as a good QB....the bottomline, the trade and pick which Bruce is the decision maker was one of the top all time bust. The trade itself was a top retard move...set the franchise back move. RG3 never did shit after the gimmick offense was uninstalled...give Shanny and son credit, the scheme was good for a year. RG3 is and always will be a terrible bust. [/quote]

RG3 was a good pick at the time (trading up for him, not so much). We could have built off his successful rookie campaign were it not for the factors I mentioned. We will never know, but, had he been drafted by a non-dysfunctional franchise that did not enable his diva-personality, I think he could have had a decent career

[quote]Defend the McNabb Trade and Contract next?[/quote]
No - I was speaking of the more recent moves. The McNabb trade was horrible at the time and turned out exactly like we all expected it to.

[quote]The handling of Cousins was god awful. Could have signed him to a cheap deal.... refused. Instead of trading him when value was max...let him walk with an end of the round 3rd round pick. Basically a 4th round pick folks.[/quote] Did you not read the very post you were responding to? I specifically limited my comments to [B]acquiring[/B] the quarterbacks... not subsequent mismanagement of them.

[quote]Never drafting a competent young QB to learn under Cousins while you never intended to seriously sign.[/quote] Nate Sudfeld?

[quote]The 3rd god aweful trade, this time for an Alex Smith who was coming off career best year...while also having the top NFL rushing attack with K Hunt. NOT ONLY trading for him, but quickly signing him for a long term deal...INSTEAD of waiting to see how he performed in Jays system. Which the apologist now conveniently claim...this wasn't his fault, it just wasn't a fit. BULLSHIT. [/quote]
who is saying it wasn't a fit? Smith was in his first year in a new system and playing mistake free football before he got hurt. He wasn't lighting it up, but, as you reference, he certainly wasn't surrounded by the talent (healthy) that he had in KC. For the money, had Smith stayed healthy and not suffered a freak injury, we got him to a great contract. His injury along with your (justifiable) hatred of Allen provides you an excellent reason to criticize the move in retrospect, but no one can predict this sort of injury. Its a risk that is taken with ALL contracts.

Had Smith played well, and he had not gotten hurt, you would be BASHING the skins right now for NOT having the foresight to sign him to an extension now as we'd be playing the tag game with him just like we had been with Cousins.

[quote=]Bruce Allen has a history of fucking up the QB position period.[/quote]
I agree - his management of the position has been terrible. In fact, pretty much EVERYTHING under his tenure has been terrible. But the team [B]has[/B] acquired a number of good QBs during his tenure. To deny that is simply to ignore evidence that doesn't fit your preferred narrative.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

RGIII could have had a great career if a bunch of other things happened. If he knew how to slide and avoid hits. If he never had that knee injury. If he was coachable. If the owner didn't empower him to the point where he thought he ran the show. There are still elements of that so called gimmick offense all around the league. Mike still says today if they had more time to gradually develop him it could have worked.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1217849]Yeah 2012 was good but what we were doing was not sustainable. [B]Even when we clinched against Dallas RG3 had like 100 yards passing.[/B] You don't win in the NFL doing that. And when Cousins played in Clev and Kyle ran a pro offense that day, that is really where it all went downhill.

I look at the Ravens and the same thing is going to happen to them. Jackson is going to get hurt, he'll never graduate to an NFL passer and it will flame out.[/quote]

He was also on one knee at that point and the run threat was gone.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1217851]RG3 was a good pick at the time (trading up for him, not so much). We could have built off his successful rookie campaign were it not for the factors I mentioned. We will never know, but, had he been drafted by a non-dysfunctional franchise that did not enable his diva-personality, I think he could have had a decent career


No - I was speaking of the more recent moves. The McNabb trade was horrible at the time and turned out exactly like we all expected it to.

Did you not read the very post you were responding to? I specifically limited my comments to [B]acquiring[/B] the quarterbacks... not subsequent mismanagement of them.

Nate Sudfeld?


who is saying it wasn't a fit? Smith was in his first year in a new system and playing mistake free football before he got hurt. He wasn't lighting it up, but, as you reference, he certainly wasn't surrounded by the talent (healthy) that he had in KC. For the money, had Smith stayed healthy and not suffered a freak injury, we got him to a great contract. His injury along with your (justifiable) hatred of Allen provides you an excellent reason to criticize the move in retrospect, but no one can predict this sort of injury. Its a risk that is taken with ALL contracts.

Had Smith played well, and he had not gotten hurt, you would be BASHING the skins right now for NOT having the foresight to sign him to an extension now as we'd be playing the tag game with him just like we had been with Cousins.


I agree - his management of the position has been terrible. In fact, pretty much EVERYTHING under his tenure has been terrible. But the team [B]has[/B] acquired a number of good QBs during his tenure. To deny that is simply to ignore evidence that doesn't fit your preferred narrative.[/quote]


Good god, the RG3 apologist are amazing...RG3 would not have been a bust but we will never know? RG3 recovered from his injury and was garbage, we know that because we got rid of him. He was a bust...he was never good...it was a terrible trade and pick period. Continue to believe in hypothetical..."what ifs" don't fucking matter in real life.

Yes McNabb was horrible at the time, which is part of the track record of Bruce. YES it matters.

So as a GM, managing the rosters of QB is off the table of Bruce Allen responsibilities? Really? Your going with this excuse? Horseshit

Nate Sudfeld, Pick 187 in Round 6th...your answer for drafting a QB to groom. First, a terrible pick. Second, Bruce probably gives more thought to scratching his balls than evaluating a sixth round QB pick. Its not a serious prospect to groom to replacement Cousins NOR Colt.

Many Alex Apologist say 'well Alex really didn't fit Jay scheme' to explain the very average, unimpressive performance in his first year. And no I wouldn't be bashing...Ive been bashing the trade and extension from day 1 because I fucking seen this story before with Bruce called "McNabb".

The decision makers at the QB positions have been garbage. That's why until Bruce is gone...I have zero faith in this FO to get it right at the most important position on the field.

Re: Bruce Allen FINALLY speaks....at the Senior Bowl
 

[quote=Chico23231;1217855]Good god, the RG3 apologist are amazing...RG3 would not have been a bust but we will never know? RG3 recovered from his injury and was garbage, we know that because we got rid of him. He was a bust...he was never good...it was a terrible trade and pick period. Continue to believe in hypothetical..."what ifs" don't fucking matter in real life.

Yes McNabb was horrible at the time, which is part of the track record of Bruce. YES it matters.

So as a GM, managing the rosters of QB is off the table of Bruce Allen responsibilities? Really? Your going with this excuse? Horseshit

Nate Sudfeld, Pick 187 in Round 6th...your answer for drafting a QB to groom. First, a terrible pick. Second, Bruce probably gives more thought to scratching his balls than evaluating a sixth round QB pick. Its not a serious prospect to groom to replacement Cousins NOR Colt.

Many Alex Apologist say 'well Alex really didn't fit Jay scheme' to explain the very average, unimpressive performance in his first year. And no I wouldn't be bashing...Ive been bashing the trade and extension from day 1 because I fucking seen this story before with Bruce called "McNabb".

The decision makers at the QB positions have been garbage. That's why until Bruce is gone...I have zero faith in this FO to get it right at the most important position on the field.[/quote]

You simply aren't reading my comments, which were limited to evaluating the talent of the QBs we brought to the team. IMO we have a track record of bringing in good talent at the QB position since Allen has been here (although most of the credit for this goes to guys like Klye Smith, Eric Santos, Dough Williams, etc.). They've brought in very good guys before, so I have no doubt they would draft a good QB this year. I'm not worried about THAT.

I'm worried about what happens AFTER that. The dysfunction that surrounds Bruce and Jay will more likely than not ruin things with the new QB like they ruined RG3 and Cousins. And if we clean house after 2019, the new coach will be stuck with a guy he didn't draft.