Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=Meks;1353812]Put Sam with a lot of other OCs with a better grasp on philosophy and game plan and he would be just fine or better. I have zero confidence in EB and I think the claims of.him making sam the 5th rounder better are more of a praise to howell than anything eb. The guy couldn't call an offense if he had it's number saved in his fucking phone.

I'm done with him. Please go coach college dude.

Done. Done with the 3&1 / 4&1 shotgun bullshit.
Done with the 80% of the game shotgun bullshit.
Done with him not calling plays for #17 bullshit.
Done with him not running the ball fucking bullshit.
Done... Done... done... Done Done Done bullshit.[/quote]

THIS!

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1353871]Plus Wiley must have read where he was going and knew he'd be in the path. A top OT would pursue and push him out of the play. Wiley just let him go.[/quote]

The LB, I forget his name, stated he knew which play was coming from studying film because Wiley sets up the same way every time it is called. Not only can't he block, but Wiley is giving the plays away to the defence

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1353873]He seriously sucks really bad. Whenever he gets in short yardage he calls a stupid ass shotgun play that never works. He always has BR running sideways. I just don't like that, I hate his run calls. Has he called one bootleg for Sam? His playaction is horrible and it is mostly out of gun which fools no one.

Do not want him here. Turner was better w/ a worse QB.

Idk.. I just see all these guys that use to work here having success and we just can't seem to get it right. Ever.[/quote]

Concur with you and Meks. I saw chinks in Bieneimy's armor in Week 1. I was hoping it was due to it being his first game and working with a new group. 12 weeks later and nothing has changed.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[QUOTE=rocnrik;1353866]The Joe Thiesman throw in the Super Bowl against the Raiders was worse …. EVERY QB that’s ever played has that type of pick …. Sam is standing tough and has no support cast … I hope he doesn’t become shell shocked because it’s gonna get worse .. the team has quit ![/QUOTE]


Yeah. Oline is priority one. An entire defense is priority two.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

So far this season with 5 games left :

Sam Howell's stats

3466 Yards passing
18 Tds
14 INTS

243 Yards rushing
5 TDs
5 Fumbles (2 lost)

66 Passing grade (Mid tier)

I think the next 5 weeks are huge for Sam, if he finishes the season on the top 5 of passing yards and has clsoe to 30 total TDs, it will be hard to just toss him to the curb next yr

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1353926]So far this season with 5 games left :

Sam Howell's stats

3466 Yards passing
18 Tds
14 INTS

243 Yards rushing
5 TDs
5 Fumbles (2 lost)

66 Passing grade (Mid tier)

I think the next 5 weeks are huge for Sam, if he finishes the season on the top 5 of passing yards and has clsoe to 30 total TDs, it will be hard to just toss him to the curb next yr[/quote]

AGAIN, we need to get away from total yards its fools gold

In QBR he ranks 21st in the league

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr[/url]

You definitely keep him no matter what he does in the next 5 games; at best he is your guy for the next decade at worst he is a very serviceable back up on the cheap.

The[B][I][U] REAL[/U][/I][/B] question is: Is he good enough that you pass on a QB in a draft heavy on QB talent and your team has multiply draft picks some of which are very high?

My answer from what I have seen so far from SH; is if you got a guy in this years draft you want you go get him. Then its up to SH to beat that dude out for QB1.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1353928]AGAIN, we need to get away from total yards its fools gold

In QBR he ranks 21st in the league

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr[/url]

You definitely keep him no matter what he does in the next 5 games; at best he is your guy for the next decade at worst he is a very serviceable back up on the cheap.

The[B][I][U] REAL[/U][/I][/B] question is: Is he good enough that you pass on a QB in a draft heavy on QB talent and your team has multiply draft picks some of which are very high?

My answer from what I have seen so far from SH; is if you got a guy in this years draft you want you go get him. Then its up to SH to beat that dude out for QB1.[/quote]

Yeah no doubt, the real Q is can SH lead this team to the playoffs? Even with an OL.. Nobody knows yet

The Sam Howell Thread
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;1353928]AGAIN, we need to get away from total yards its fools gold

In QBR he ranks 21st in the league

[url]https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr[/url]

You definitely keep him no matter what he does in the next 5 games; at best he is your guy for the next decade at worst he is a very serviceable back up on the cheap.

The[B][I][U] REAL[/U][/I][/B] question is: Is he good enough that you pass on a QB in a draft heavy on QB talent and your team has multiply draft picks some of which are very high?

My answer from what I have seen so far from SH; is if you got a guy in this years draft you want you go get him. Then its up to SH to beat that dude out for QB1.[/QUOTE]


I know yards isn’t everything but fools gold is probably not it either. Look at the other 10 quarterbacks leading in yards.

1

C.J. Stroud
HOU
2

S. Howell
WSH
3

T. Tagovailoa
MIA
4

J. Goff
DET
5

D. Prescott
DAL
6

J. Allen
BUF
7

B. Purdy
SF
8

P. Mahomes
KC
9

J. Herbert
LAC
10

T. Lawrence
JAX
11

J. Hurts
PHI

Basically the who’s who of nfl quarterbacks. Gotta be something to it.

Two different OC’s both of whom hinder not help. Arguably the worst Oline. No great wr. No run game. A clown HC.

The pick sixes are him pressing and knowing down by 30 he needs to score quickly. I think it would be a mistake not to build around him for this coming year and see what he is capable of with all those things he is lacking. A really big mistake.

Help me out SF. Lol

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

Let me give Sam some praise.

Dude is tough and he holds on to the ball which is surprising considering how often he is scrambling.

That's all I got for positives

Links for reading pleasure while you wait for your oil change at Jiffy Lube.
[url]https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw[/url]
[url]https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/sam-howell-sacks-nfl-record-david-carr-most-sacked-qb/5078e0560d5592d50f8fa7af[/url]
[url]https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/samhowell[/url]

From the SI article:
[QUOTE]Howell gets passes batted at the line and deflected by underneath defenders as he is unable to get over them, lacking height. He takes too many sacks because he fails to identify blitzes pre-snap and does not have an internal clock. [/QUOTE]

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1353937]I know yards isn’t everything but fools gold is probably not it either. Look at the other 10 quarterbacks leading in yards.

1

C.J. Stroud
HOU
2

S. Howell
WSH
3

T. Tagovailoa
MIA
4

J. Goff
DET
5

D. Prescott
DAL
6

J. Allen
BUF
7

B. Purdy
SF
8

P. Mahomes
KC
9

J. Herbert
LAC
10

T. Lawrence
JAX
11

J. Hurts
PHI

Basically the who’s who of nfl quarterbacks. Gotta be something to it.

Two different OC’s both of whom hinder not help. Arguably the worst Oline. No great wr. No run game. A clown HC.

The pick sixes are him pressing and knowing down by 30 he needs to score quickly. I think it would be a mistake not to build around him for this coming year and see what he is capable of with all those things he is lacking. A really big mistake.

Help me out SF. Lol[/quote]

Also in that list each QB not named Sam is in the top half of the QBR rating, also each QB on that list team is .500 or above battling for a playoff spot

You know what you call Sam in statistics? A Outlier

Here is another way to look at it. Lets say everyone on that list is a distance runner and everyone ran a ton miles; top guy had 100 miles the lowest guy lets say 89 miles over a period of time, Sam had 99 miles. Consider the miles ran yards thrown. Now in that same list the average pace was 7 minutes per mile expect for one of the distance runners his pace was 16 minutes per mile and his name was Sam. Consider the pace the QBR.

Does that paint a better picture of why the total yards is fools gold?

Sam only has a ton of yards because:
1. We are always behind and trying to catch up
2. He plays in a lot of garbage time minutes
3. His OC is a idiot and can't game plan a balanced attack

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

I think it is funny that some fans are asking for the new regime to do the same thing that has happened with this current (Ron and co.) and the previous (Bruce/Jay and co.): to keep and work with the existing QB, which has some potential upside, that hasn't resulted in wins.

Now, is there a chance for Sam to be the starter in 2024? Yes. The most likely scenario for this is a situation where the team has no option to get a QB (i.e. no trading partner).

I don't think there are many GM/coaches that are going to come in and view Sam with the same Ashburn Syndrome glasses we do as fans and anoint him QB1 right away. There could be, but I highly doubted, and the optics of Sam continuing to falter (I know not everything is on him) and throw pick-6s, doesn't look good for a new regime that wants to go on rebuild mode.

Personally, I think there are other scenarios that are most likely to happen:

- We trade up to get a QB in the draft, who starts right away.

- The new GM brings in a veteran they know via free agency or a trade the way that Campbell brought Goff to the Lions.

Again, not saying that Sam starting next year is out of the question, I just feel that the new regime is going to want their own guy (whether rookie or free agent) like most new regimes do.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

Honestly at the end of the day when they get a new staff here, the odds of them picking their own QB are probably high

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

EB has called at least one bootleg... (the game after schlereth talked to him about the run game, the one he had the call for). I really can't remember seeing another one though.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

The height shit something he will have to adapt to. There's been short qbs who did fine, brees was the same size. Howell needs to learn and progress same as 90% of other players who expect to play a long time in this league. He moves well in the pocket when they actually have one, he gets out of trouble a good amount of time, he's for the most part accurate and has a great arm. A lot comparisons to Brees not just the size thing. Brees numbers were not great in his first 27 games through back to back almost full seasons.

It's fine if most of you would rather draft a QB instead of other pieces half giving up on him, that's your choice. To me it's a waste of capital drafting a qb in the top 5 if there is a stud OL there. With a new coach and scheme and some OL help he'd earn yalls praise a bit more. So we draft a qb that should "start right away". If they don't change the OC and really... really help the o line it will mean zilch. Stroud is playing great but to me he's more of an exception not a rule.

Handful of rookies won 9+ games and that number is 6 since 2012 on list includes RG3.

Sam has a lot of work to do... I believe he will do it. He has great potential and IMO can lead this team to great records and the playoffs for a long time. He needs help, as would any qb here. Especially another rookie. Cousins was never clutch but he was the most decent we had for a long time. A lot of yall gave him a much longer leash than you are Sam. Sam the rookie. Patience is an underrated and undervalued thing in a 'what have you done for me lately' league.

For me I'm not risking our 1st round pick on a qb. New regime or not, just not what I'd like to see them do.

Cheers to the future.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=Meks;1353949]The height shit something he will have to adapt to. There's been short qbs who did fine, brees was the same size. Howell needs to learn and progress same as 90% of other players who expect to play a long time in this league. He moves well in the pocket when they actually have one, he gets out of trouble a good amount of time, he's for the most part accurate and has a great arm. A lot comparisons to Brees not just the size thing. Brees numbers were not great in his first 27 games through back to back almost full seasons.

It's fine if most of you would rather draft a QB instead of other pieces half giving up on him, that's your choice. To me it's a waste of capital drafting a qb in the top 5 if there is a stud OL there. With a new coach and scheme and some OL help he'd earn yalls praise a bit more. So we draft a qb that should "start right away". If they don't change the OC and really... really help the o line it will mean zilch. Stroud is playing great but to me he's more of an exception not a rule.

Handful of rookies won 9+ games and that number is 6 since 2012 on list includes RG3.

Sam has a lot of work to do... I believe he will do it. He has great potential and IMO can lead this team to great records and the playoffs for a long time. He needs help, as would any qb here. Especially another rookie. Cousins was never clutch but he was the most decent we had for a long time. A lot of yall gave him a much longer leash than you are Sam. Sam the rookie. Patience is an underrated and undervalued thing in a 'what have you done for me lately' league.

For me I'm not risking our 1st round pick on a qb. New regime or not, just not what I'd like to see them do.

Cheers to the future.[/quote]

This. Give Sam a #4 overall LT, 2nd and 3rd guards or use Chicago 2nd and ours to get into the lower 1st and get a RT, and the 3rds for DE's (FA for LB's). then give him a year. If he doesn't keep producing, then we likely will be in the top teens and able to be in trading range for a qb.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

The sacks and int's are an issue. But that is going to come w/ just about any first year starter. On top of that he's got a really bad line in front of him w. an OC that really doesn't do a good job at running an offense.

If Sam had Kyle he'd be put in a lot better positions to be successful. If they go w/ Sam, for god sakes invest heavily in the line in front of him. Two high picks and a FA or two. 3 to 4 new starters...

The new guys will have to do your due diligence w/ all the QB's coming out. I'm really high on Penix and not high on Caleb. We won't be able to get him anyway. Just didn't like what I saw against a few tough teams. Haven't seen enough of Maye. Jaden Daniels.. what's not to like? He can do it all. He is a better prospect than Hurts was imo. But getting back to Penix, he is as good a thrower/passer as I've seen in a while. The rotation on his ball and the elite arm talent is all there.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;1353939]Also in that list each QB not named Sam is in the top half of the QBR rating, also each QB on that list team is .500 or above battling for a playoff spot

You know what you call Sam in statistics? A Outlier

Here is another way to look at it. Lets say everyone on that list is a distance runner and everyone ran a ton miles; top guy had 100 miles the lowest guy lets say 89 miles over a period of time, Sam had 99 miles. Consider the miles ran yards thrown. Now in that same list the average pace was 7 minutes per mile expect for one of the distance runners his pace was 16 minutes per mile and his name was Sam. Consider the pace the QBR.

Does that paint a better picture of why the total yards is fools gold?

Sam only has a ton of yards because:
1. We are always behind and trying to catch up
2. He plays in a lot of garbage time minutes
3. His OC is a idiot and can't game plan a balanced attack[/QUOTE]


None of those other quarterbacks play behind the worst line in football, have no top tier wr, have no running game, have an idiot HC, have learned two offenses in two years, and have zero home field advantage. Some might check a couple of those boxes but only Sam checks them all.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

The best thing this team can do and whoever will be in charge. Trade down our 1st rounder to accumulate more picks, draft 2 Tackles and OG, DE, LB, TE, CB’s, build around Howell.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1353954]The best thing this team can do and whoever will be in charge. Trade down our 1st rounder to accumulate more picks, draft 2 Tackles and OG, DE, LB, TE, CB’s, build around Howell.[/quote]

I understand the thinking, but if we have the 4th pick, we should take a cornerstone LT. This franchise definitely lost it's way, and when Trent Williams left I think that was truly the start of the end of DS. Now bring in a guy that can protect Sam ( or whoever) for the next 10-15 years

The Sam Howell Thread
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1353954]The best thing this team can do and whoever will be in charge. Trade down our 1st rounder to accumulate more picks, draft 2 Tackles and OG, DE, LB, TE, CB’s, build around Howell.[/QUOTE]


I agree with everything except the trade down. We have 9 picks and lots of dollars to spend. We need a fucking difference maker though. A cornerstone, all pro LT like CRed said. It is paramount.

We can address all those things you mentioned, which are exactly what we need, without trading down.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=punch it in;1353958]I agree with everything except the trade down. We have 9 picks and lots of dollars to spend. We need a fucking difference maker though. A cornerstone, all pro LT like CRed said. It is paramount.

We can address all those things you mentioned, which are exactly what we need, without trading down.[/quote]

I don’t think you would have to trade down that far and still get a stud LT. With Penix and Nix there, someone will be desperate to make a move enough to prison rape their ass.

Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Penn State. LT | 6'6" | 310 lbs | 4th Year. ...
Joe Alt, Notre Dame. LT | 6'8" | 315 lbs | 3rd Year. ...
Taliese Fuaga, Oregon State. RT | 6'6" | 335 lbs | 4th Year. ...
JC Latham, Alabama. RT | 6'6" | 335 lbs | 3rd Year. ...
Kingsley Suamataia, BYU. RT | 6'6" | 315 lbs | 3rd Year.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

Personally I don't think you can underestimate the importance of a stud LT. Plenty of teams have been successful with a good (but not top5) QB but had a top LT. Hell, we won 2 SBs with good but not great QBs. Key was an OL that kept them upright long enough to make good throws. It's not a surprise that the 9ers 3 losses occurred while TW was injured.

I'm not saying that SH is merely good; I don't think we can know his ceiling yet (especially with no OL). And I don't think you can ignore a stud QB if available, but i can't see the top 2 QBs being there by the 4th pick. So you pick a stud LT at #4, build around them and see what SH can do. If you reach for a QB there when you have a good one already in the roster, you're subtracting by addition, missing out on plugging some of the holes elsewhere.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

Of the top 10 Tackles in the NFL right now (according to PFF), only four were taken in the top 10 (T Williams, L Johnson, P Sewell & A Thomas). Three were taken with the 13th overall pick. The other three were taken in the 3rd round, 4th round, and 7th round.

You can get a real good tackle with the #4 pick, but you can also get a Luke Joeckel.

You can most certainly find a real good - even cornerstone - tackle at pick #7, outside the top 10, or outside the first round.

I don't think you can take trading back off the table if there is a team desperate for one of the top 3-4 QBs. It's my most desired course of action at this point given all the holes this team has.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1353954]The best thing this team can do and whoever will be in charge. Trade down our 1st rounder to accumulate more picks, draft 2 Tackles and OG, DE, LB, TE, CB’s, build around Howell.[/quote]

The best thing they can do for the organization is draft the best player wherever they pick in the 1st round, regardless of position.

I'm still pro Sam but if they think a QB has a higher ceiling then you can not pass on him.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

I disagree. If somebody offers them multiple picks to slide down 3 or 4 slots, that would be the best thing for the organization. It's really all going to depend on who is actually there when they pick, and what they have already done in free agency.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

RW , Brees , Baker etc. All 6"1 and under QBs. All 3 have had success and 2 are HOF QB's.

If you have a smaller QB you design plays for them. EB has no done that, he just throws quick game most of the time... Which is why Sam leads the league in attemps

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1353972]The best thing they can do for the organization is draft the best player wherever they pick in the 1st round, regardless of position.

I'm still pro Sam but if they think a QB has a higher ceiling then you can not pass on him.[/quote]


Alt is the best player......

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1353981]I disagree. If somebody offers them multiple picks to slide down 3 or 4 slots, that would be the best thing for the organization. It's really all going to depend on who is actually there when they pick, and what they have already done in free agency.[/quote]

to be honest it depends who is picking for us

you give a RR type a bunch of lower draft pics might as well just let the clock run out on draft day on each one of them that be more useful then him picking someone

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1354007]to be honest it depends who is picking for us

you give a RR type a bunch of lower draft pics might as well just let the clock run out on draft day on each one of them that be more useful then him picking someone[/quote]

I think we're all assuming we will have more competent people making the decisions after RR & Co is shown the door. But to your point, the jury is still out on whether or not the new ownership group actually upgrades the decision makers. I think it would be hard not to, but you never know...

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

I wish McVay was our next coach, he’s the best coach in the NFL, has done a lot with basically a new roster and will probably sneak into the playoffs. He loves Howell. 📸 Look at this post on Facebook [url]https://fanrecap.com/article-120578/?utm_source=washington-commanders&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nfl-mk&fbclid=IwAR3wIwFGvrnYxyEstZgDYG6MC_nT0O9uuydP4UTDeCBjp69jRy3XkZBroZk_aem_AaempSBIY7f4S8yI06zlfcZrtaO1h58UufPYo9Py8sjZJ-CxrXE6vmLpjT7S2_xe_BM[/url]

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1354331]I wish McVay was our next coach, he’s the best coach in the NFL, has done a lot with basically a new roster and will probably sneak into the playoffs. He loves Howell.

[url]https://fanrecap.com/article-120578/?utm_source=washington-commanders&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=nfl-mk&fbclid=IwAR3wIwFGvrnYxyEstZgDYG6MC_nT0O9uuydP4UTDeCBjp69jRy3XkZBroZk_aem_AaempSBIY7f4S8yI06zlfcZrtaO1h58UufPYo9Py8sjZJ-CxrXE6vmLpjT7S2_xe_BM[/url]

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1353959]I don’t think you would have to trade down that far and still get a stud LT. With Penix and Nix there, someone will be desperate to make a move enough to prison rape their ass.

Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Penn State. LT | 6'6" | 310 lbs | 4th Year. ...
Joe Alt, Notre Dame. LT | 6'8" | 315 lbs | 3rd Year. ...
Taliese Fuaga, Oregon State. RT | 6'6" | 335 lbs | 4th Year. ...
JC Latham, Alabama. RT | 6'6" | 335 lbs | 3rd Year. ...
Kingsley Suamataia, BYU. RT | 6'6" | 315 lbs | 3rd Year.[/quote]

If we are going to pick a guy high to be a OT then I would rather he played LT in college, after the first two on your list the others all played RT

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1354006]Alt is the best player......[/quote]

I think if you asked 10 different executives you might have 10 different players.

Like I said I am pro Sam but he needs to have a strong finish. If he doesn't I'd be shocked if a QB isn't taken 1st round.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;1354006]Alt is the best player......[/quote]

I would be fine with Alt . . . though IMO fashanu has the bigger upside and has not given up a sack in college. His physical traits are incredible and he is being touted by many as the best OT prospect in the last 25 years or so.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1354338]I would be fine with Alt . . . though IMO fashanu has the bigger upside and has not given up a sack in college. His physical traits are incredible and he is being touted by many as the best OT prospect in the last 25 years or so.[/quote]


You are right....#74 is a outstanding LT.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

You know why Tau looks so good because he has Hill

I am starting to think hitch wagon to SH and go draft Harrison

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=mredskins;1354400]You know why Tau looks so good because he has Hill

I am starting to think hitch wagon to SH and go draft Harrison[/quote]

While Hill is elite receiver, the reason Tau looks great is Miami is second in the league in rushing per game. San Fran is like third. Last year Eagles were number 1 and Baltimore is historically in the top 5.

Competent QB passers who are athletic look elite when you compliment them with a strong running game.

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

And they all got a solid Oline ..I can't believe Ron ignored the line for so long ..

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1354406]While Hill is elite receiver, the reason Tau looks great is Miami is second in the league in rushing per game. San Fran is like third. Last year Eagles were number 1 and Baltimore is historically in the top 5.

Competent QB passers who are athletic look elite when you compliment them with a strong running game.[/quote]

yeah good points

you could also say hill helps pull the safeties out of the box as well thus opening running lanes

Re: The Sam Howell Thread
 

to continue my post (edit is so painful on here now adays)

basically don't be one dimensional; in KC i think that is starting to be come the issue; its basically the pat and travis show with a side of taylor pussy