Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=irish;886494]I agree, option 1 gives the team the best of both worlds.[/quote]a veteran qb who can no longer play, a rookie qb, and an extra 2nd or 3rd in this years draft? what worlds are these?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886471]Let me pose this question to you

Manning and trade down to get Tannehill and an additional pick in the 2nd/3rd

or

Orton and trade up to get RG3 and lose a 1st/2nd[/quote]

Quite honestly I'd be happy with either option. And this is why I'm glad I don't make those decisions.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886493]Not necessarily. I was just throwing it out there as an option. Of the two choices I'd prefer Manning ([B]healthy[/B]), RT, and picks. Largely bc I don't think the gap between RG3 and RT is that big[/quote]

this is the problem. Manning could never play again, he may only play another season, he could be in and out of the lineup for the next several years...either of those happenings is a massive, epic fail. Tannehill is not ready to start, he cant even throw right now. He will be a project.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;886471]Let me pose this question to you



Manning and trade down to get Tannehill and an additional pick in the 2nd/3rd



or



Orton and trade up to get RG3 and lose a 1st/2nd[/QUOTE]

I'll take the RGIII package.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886493]Not necessarily. I was just throwing it out there as an option. Of the two choices I'd prefer Manning (healthy), RT, and picks. Largely bc I don't think the gap between RG3 and RT is that big[/quote]

Ok. I will take the RG3 package. Your reasoning makes sense but is largely based on your opinion of there being a small gap between RG3 & RT. I am no scout but from everything i have read and heard you are in the minority on that front. Most seem to think RG3 can start soon if not right away and may have the highest ceiling in the draft while most think RT is a good prospect but needs a year or 2 on the pine.

Just to be clear...I like the healthy Manning/RT package also but I like it less because I think we will need to decide before we are positive Manning is healthy. And if we find out he's not healthy after we pull the trigger then we are in big trouble with a washed up Manning and an RT that's not ready. That's the riskier option to me then parting with a couple extra draft picks.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Well remember in my scenario I'm talking RT plus picks vs RG3 minus picks. I think that, to me at least, closes the gap

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'd take the Manning deal with RT

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'm for trying to get Bradford from St. Lou but I don't think that's going to happen & I know Indy isn't giviing up the 1st pick but if your going to trade up why not try to get Luck, what about a 2012 1st & 2nd, 2013 1st & 3rd 2014 1st & 4th? would you do it. NOW that's all in get the QB you reallly want IMO.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I am really hopping on to the RGIII bandwagon hard, both after hearing his interview on Sirius a few weeks back, and the Halsell interview that Matty posted. I don't know that we will get him, and worry about his style of play leading to injuries. But right now I would be ecstatic if we moved up to the 3rd spot and picked him up.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886471]Let me pose this question to you

Manning and trade down to get Tannehill and an additional pick in the 2nd/3rd

or

Orton and trade up to get RG3 and lose a 1st/2nd[/quote]
Manning and trade down to get Tannehill and an additional pick in the 2nd/3rd.
But I think this trade down scenario is easier said then done.
Depending on what happens in FA we still have to worry about the Dolphins (who signed Mike Sherman (Tannehill's HC as their OC) and we still have the QB needy Seahawks too.


[quote=GTripp0012;886480]I don't think the Ryan Tannehill who played at Texas A&M showed much of any of this, certainly I don't think he's in the same category with his arm or even with his athleticism that Andrew Luck is.[/quote]And this is the heart of the difference in our views of Tannehill.
I think Tannehill has better arm talent and is vastly more athletic then you.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886509]Well remember in my scenario I'm talking RT plus picks vs RG3 minus picks. I think that, to me at least, closes the gap[/quote]

Thats the kicker for me too.

Id rather have placeholder like orton+RT+picks longterm versus RG3 minus picks (and realistically, speaking minus orakpo too, based on the trade scenarios you through a few weeks ago)

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=celts32;886508]Your reasoning makes sense but is largely based on your opinion of there being a small gap between RG3 & RT. I am no scout but from everything i have read and heard you are in the minority on that front. Most seem to think RG3 can start soon if not right away and may have the highest ceiling in the draft while most think RT is a good prospect but needs a year or 2 on the pine.[/quote]Even though I think Tannehill is an above average playmaker himself, I think Griffin clearly out classes everyone in this draft when it comes to playmaking and that is the trait I value most.
And he was certainly a more efficient QB in Baylor's offense then Tannehill was at A&M.
But in the NFL both will start from scratch in brand new systems and most pro systems will be closer to A&Ms then Baylor's.
But outside of those 2 areas I don't see where the a huge gulf in their skill set exists.
What factors do you see that create the vast difference in their skill sets?

I think there is as much to suggest that Tannehill could start week 1 as there is to suggest that he couldn't.
There is arguably more to suggest that Griffin would need to sit then there is to suggest that Tannehill would need to sit, [I][B]especially[/B][/I] in our offense.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;886491]I live in New England and listen to a lot of talk radio and we have late night sports talk on TV on Sundays. I can tell you the people (beat reporters, ex-players, etc) who cover and comment on the team feel that the team believes in Hoyer to a huge degree. Like they think they're sitting on a major asset, way better than Cassel was. And this isn't just "the coaches say he's good" talk, or a smokescreen, they are talking about a palpable sense they get from everywhere in the organization about Hoyer.

There is talk now that they are considering putting the first round tender on him. If you think about what that means, it means they are thinking it might not be worth risking losing him for "only" a 2nd round pick. And this is a guy who can walk for nothing in a year. So, essentially they are debating whether one year of Hoyer as a back-up is worth more than a 2nd round pick.

Just FWIW.[/quote]

Yeah he won't be easy to get, for sure

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=NYCskinfan82;886514]I'm for trying to get Bradford from St. Lou but I don't think that's going to happen & I know Indy isn't giviing up the 1st pick but if your going to trade up why not try to get Luck, what about a 2012 1st & 2nd, 2013 1st & 3rd 2014 1st & 4th? would you do it. NOW that's all in get the QB you reallly want IMO.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is giving up 6 picks for Luck. The most I'd give for Luck is:

2012 1st rd.
2013 1st rd.
2014 2nd rd.

If you don't want it whatever

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;886509]Well remember in my scenario I'm talking RT plus picks vs RG3 minus picks. I think that, to me at least, closes the gap[/QUOTE]

I'd like to hear your RGIII vs "Clark Kent" Tannehill Smooty. Like why do you think the gap is so small.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;886534]I'd like to hear your RGIII vs "Clark Kent" Tannehill Smooty. Like why do you think the gap is so small.[/quote]

You'll have to wait for my underground rap vinyl to come out

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886471]Let me pose this question to you

Manning and trade down to get Tannehill and an additional pick in the 2nd/3rd

or

Orton and trade up to get RG3 and lose a 1st/2nd[/quote]

With the healthy caveat on Manning, I'd go with that option. I love RGIII but his cost will be significant and 2 yrs from Manning with a handoff to Tannehill plus keeping picks is best short and long term. I think though that with Seattle sitting around 12 we won't be able to go too far down and still get him. Plan B could be Osweiler. I think he's got some talent but really needs to be coached up. He could be had in the mid-late 2nd and would be a nice Manning caddy.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

It is a tough call because you see just how good Peyton was under center for the Colts, How much better he made them. I mean that was the same team he commands to a 10 - 11 win season, that with out him won 2 games?? That is the instant impact he has IF HEALTHY. IF HEALTHY he gives us 3 years of service, and grooming someone to come in behind him (cousins, Tennihill)

HOWEVER, I just can't see us passing on the option of getting RGIII. He is a stud. Better passer than Cam Newton, and runs faster. Not as big, but tremendous athlete. I would absolutely love to finally have our own double threat QB in DC. Problem is, the Rams have to be willing to take what we have to in order to move up to get him.

So, if moving up isn't a possibility, then Peyton it is, draft Cousins 2nd or 3rd round and let him learn behind one of the best QB's to ever play the game.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I like option one, but one thing is how far do we drop down for RT? I would hate to trade down and miss RT. At least if you give up the picks for RG3, you know you will get him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Paintrain;886536] Plan B could be Osweiler. I think he's got some talent but really needs to be coached up. He could be had in the mid-late 2nd and would be a nice Manning caddy.[/quote]

The hype I heard is he's sneaking into the 1st.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

The more I watch Tannehill the more I don't want him. He always starts games off well, and then falters awfully in them the later it is in the game. Why didn't he start at QB 2 years ago? I just don't trust a guy who was a WR 2 years ago and just got the starting job midway through last year, because of injury.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=NM Redskin;886539]The hype I heard is he's sneaking into the 1st.[/quote]

I could see the hype pushing him but he's got a lot of holes for a first rounder.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Paintrain;886541]I could see the hype pushing him but he's got a lot of holes for a first rounder.[/quote]

I agree, wouldn't be surprised if a team falls in love with him at the combine. The whole workout warrior thing.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=mooby;886500]Quite honestly I'd be happy with either option. And this is why I'm glad I don't make those decisions.[/quote]

And this is the sad reality we live in. With rex grossman, john beck and donovan Mcnabb, either of those options sound absolutley wonderful. Just shows you how bad the Shanahans have screwed the pooch when it comes to the QB position. Sorry, but if a coach has been in control for over 2 years, and there is absolutely NO answer of any sort, and by that I mean NO YOUNG TALENT or anything that even resembles a qb that will give you chances to win games, then he needs to be held accountable. Ignoring the most important position on the squad, and adding marginally better young talent in two years, well, lets hope he really flashes his genius this year.

If he doesn't, then maybe some difficult decisions need to be made. Lesser coaches have done WAY more with just as little talent, and also done it in a much shorter span than having over 24 months. Noone shanahan has brought in has knocked my socks off. Noone. he has made some solid acquisitions, but put in a situation, you have 53 chances to show that you are adding talent, and making the team better. When looked at as a whole, the only reason i feel ANY reason to be optimistic is that our team is on average 2.1 years younger on average at the end of this past season than two seasons ago. That is the only reason. There has to be a palpable show of proof, and having two years with both 1st and 2nd rounders each of his drafts, well, like I said, Im not astonished.

Here is to hoping he doesnt screw the pooch this year, and does what it takes to get a quarterback for our team.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=SmootSmack;886528]Yeah he won't be easy to get, for sure[/quote]

He won't, but my point was also about how good he must be for them to value him so. And that's not out of the blue, I thought he was a huge sleeper in the draft when he came out.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;886533]I don't think anyone is giving up 6 picks for Luck. The most I'd give for Luck is:

2012 1st rd.
2013 1st rd.
2014 2nd rd.

If you don't want it whatever[/quote]

And when they stop laughing.....?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[QUOTE=biffle;886547]And when they stop laughing.....?[/QUOTE]

I would have hung up already.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;886548]I would have hung up already.[/quote]

Earlier in the thread you said you'd give up a better deal for Griffin, so I assume you like him more than Luck?

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

does anyone else buy the pro football weekly draft preview? i love carrying that around and reading about every player when i'm waiting in line or something of that nature

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=los panda;886552]does anyone else buy the pro football weekly draft preview? i love carrying that around and reading about every player when i'm waiting in line or something of that nature[/quote]

I usually get theirs and the Sporting News'. Maybe another if I have extra money weighing me down.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=los panda;886552]does anyone else buy the pro football weekly draft preview? i love carrying that around and reading about every player when i'm waiting in line or something of that nature[/quote]

I buy all the major draft ones usually 4 magazines a year I'm getting on that stuff. Its good to read each magazines pros and cons of each player, and looking back on years past to see who was right on their evaluations and predictions and who wasn't. They also help you get a consensus answer on each player like if all magazines agree that Vontaze is 'overrated'.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'm not giving up 3 1st rounders for anyone, but to be honest I do like RGIII a little more than Luck. I think he has a higher ceiling but a lower floor if that makes sense. Plus with Luck you would have to pretty much give away your entire draft for. 3 1st rounders is the opening asking price and that's ridiculous but 5 to 10 years from now I think RGIII will be the better player.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

There are 2 question marks with Peyton Manning- is he healthy and how will he play after a year away from football? The first question is the easily most important.

The thing I don't get is - why are there no question marks being discussed with RGIII? Why is he the one qb that no one questions- with his talent and skill?

I would start off with - what usually makes a qb great in the nfl? And does he possess or have the likely potential to attain those qualities?

I'm not saying that he doesn't - I'm just saying I don't know. I'm just wondering what has a bunch of people convinced so early.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=warriorzpath;886575]There are 2 question marks with Peyton Manning- is he healthy and how will he play after a year away from football? The first question is the easily most important.

[B]The thing I don't get is - why are there no question marks being discussed with RGIII? Why is he the one qb that no one questions- with his talent and skill?
[/B]
I would start off with - what usually makes a qb great in the nfl? And does he possess or have the likely potential to attain those qualities?

I'm not saying that he doesn't - I'm just saying I don't know. I'm just wondering what has a bunch of people convinced so early.[/quote]

Good question, but you could say the exact same thing about Luck.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;886583]Good question, but you could say the exact same thing about Luck.[/quote]

That's true but one difference is - Luck first garnered his attention after last season, which basically put him under a microscope. Because of that attention - this past season, he was evaluated in every game he played.

RGIII got much of his attention in his pursuit of the heisman and then after he won it. So there weren't as many games that fans and media paid attention to up that point. And that's why there should be much less thats known with RGIII. And thats also why I think there should be more question marks with him.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;886540]The more I watch Tannehill the more I don't want him. He always starts games off well, and then falters awfully in them the later it is in the game. Why didn't he start at QB 2 years ago? I just don't trust a guy who was a WR 2 years ago and just got the starting job midway through last year, because of injury.[/quote]But how much of A&M's struggle are because of him vs the entire team struggling against a better opponent?

re:Why didn't he start at QB 2 years ago?

He didn't start 2 years ago because as a freshmen he lost the QB competition between a Sr. QB Stephen McGee who turned out to be an NFL prospect that was drafted by the Cowboys and Jerrod Johnson another pro prospect QB.
He was then asked to move to WR to help the team (which he did) because at the time he was the 3rd QB behind Jerrod Johnson who was arguably the best QB in the Big 12 (better then Colt McCoy) before he trashed his shoulder.
So long story short: Tannehill moved to WR because as a freshmen there were 2 NFL QBs ahead of him.

And to be clear he played [I][B]all[/B][/I] of last year at QB it was the previous year that he took over mid-season and it wasn't because of 'injury'; Johnson was physically able to play (he had surgery on his shoulder over the previous summer and opened the season as the starter).
The A&M staff thought Tannehill would be a better option following some tough loses where Johnson underperformed and it turns out the staff was right.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[url=http://12thmanrising.com/2012/02/18/peyton-manning-update/]Peyton Manning Update - 12th Man Rising - A Seattle Seahawks Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more.[/url]

Good Read...

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mechanix544;886544]And this is the sad reality we live in. With rex grossman, john beck and donovan Mcnabb, either of those options sound absolutley wonderful. Just shows you how bad the Shanahans have screwed the pooch when it comes to the QB position. Sorry, but if a coach has been in control for over 2 years, and there is absolutely NO answer of any sort, and by that I mean NO YOUNG TALENT or anything that even resembles a qb that will give you chances to win games, then he needs to be held accountable. Ignoring the most important position on the squad, and adding marginally better young talent in two years, well, lets hope he really flashes his genius this year.

If he doesn't, then maybe some difficult decisions need to be made. Lesser coaches have done WAY more with just as little talent, and also done it in a much shorter span than having over 24 months. Noone shanahan has brought in has knocked my socks off. Noone. he has made some solid acquisitions, but put in a situation, you have 53 chances to show that you are adding talent, and making the team better. When looked at as a whole, the only reason i feel ANY reason to be optimistic is that our team is on average 2.1 years younger on average at the end of this past season than two seasons ago. That is the only reason. There has to be a palpable show of proof, and having two years with both 1st and 2nd rounders each of his drafts, well, like I said, Im not astonished.

Here is to hoping he doesnt screw the pooch this year, and does what it takes to get a quarterback for our team.[/quote]


I think you are WAY off base. if you remember last years draft we were in position to draft Blain Gabbert, and for what ever reason Shanahan didn't like him (i was hoping to draft him) and out of all the rookies that played last year Gabbert looked freaking horrible. So I think he was left with the fact he had no choice but to suck it up and try and win some games with Rex and go after a QB this year. I think he knew the "franchise" QB was going to come out of this years draft, and he was/is going to be willing to throw a few picks away to get his guy. I think it was a fantastic move thinking Luck, Griffin, and probably at the time Barkely was coming out and we'd get one of them.

Now, as far as adding talent, I have no idea what team you are watching. The draft last season was spectacular in tems of adding more picks, adding young talent and the talent actually contributing on the field. If Jenkins had not been hurt, 11 or all 12 of the picks would have played and contributed. Helu, Royster seem to be pretty decent. Kerrigan, Gomes, Hurt, Hankerson, Jenkins, Neild - dont see your reasoning. Then the free agent grabs in Cofield and Bowen have absolutely helped, plus the drafting of Perry Riley the year before.(he is going to be a stud)

I dont think (in my opinion) this is a make and break year for Shanahan. It is his 3rd year, and there will be some improvement, hopefully a lot of improvement from the standpoint of wins and losses that is. As far as competing on the field, we were competative all year last year. Played down to the opponent, up to the opponent, so its just a matter of getting to a consistant level of play. WE are headed in the right direction.

I disagree with shanny losing his touch but I also disagree that he's safe with another 5 or 6 win season. IMO if we don't win at least 8 games then he should be gone.. Mike shanahan is a guy that u put trust in to be competitive and win games he's not Jim Zorn., heck even he won 8 games one year.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=warriorzpath;886575]There are 2 question marks with Peyton Manning- is he healthy and how will he play after a year away from football? The first question is the easily most important.

The thing I don't get is - why are there no question marks being discussed with RGIII? Why is he the one qb that no one questions- with his talent and skill?

I would start off with - what usually makes a qb great in the nfl? And does he possess or have the likely potential to attain those qualities?

I'm not saying that he doesn't - I'm just saying I don't know. I'm just wondering what has a bunch of people convinced so early.[/quote]

I hear you. I look at the last 10 QBs to win the Super Bowl and wonder if RGIII has similar traits. Maybe, but it's not glaringly obvious to me. I don't get the "lock" sentiment with him. That said, I'd love to have him, but not at an exorbitant cost.