Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884623]I don't think anyone is "God's gift" and I'm not sure what the point of a lame comment like that is. If you don't like him as a prospect, that's fine. I do, as do plenty of other people. We can disagree, but rest assured, I don't need you to tell me what "my problem" is.



[B]Manning's passer ratings by age:
28- 121.1
29- 104.1
30- 101
31- 98
32- 95
33- 99.9
34- 91.9
[/B]
A pretty clear downward trajectory there, and that number for his last year would have been good for only 7th best in the NFC this season.

People decline physically as they get older. It's not exactly controversial to say that. And taking a year off and having multiple surgeries aren't exactly elixirs for that.



Ah, so once there was a terrible GM who didn't know what he was doing, so all Free Agent spending is bad. Brilliant. Does that also apply to Gibbs' Washington-Springs-Griffin-Daniels-Moss spending spree that was the basis for two playoff runs? How about the Patriots first Super Bowl win after signing about 20 FAs? There are smart ways and dumb ways to spend money, just like there are dumb ways to do most anything.

For the record, why don't you look at GTripp's breakdown of our cap space. People keep throwing these numbers around and thinking that we are going to have trouble figuring out what to do with all the cap space. Once we re-sign our own and our draft picks, that space turns into a much more pedestrian number.



Thank goodness we don't have a FO that thinks of things so simplistically.



Yeah, I'll take Ryan and his future any day, thank you.

Sanchez had only one year of starting in college, which is a huge red flag. He also had an arrest on his record, and other maturity questions.[/quote]


Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[url=http://communityvoices.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/sports/bob-smiziks-blog/31861-call-for-redskins-to-sign-manning]Call for Redskins to sign Manning[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884634]Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..[/quote]

Even if he had a "steep decline" to 85, that's still pretty damn good. I just want a QB that doesn't force balls and either can a) throw the ball away or b) have enough strength to hang onto it if they're getting sacked.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;884634]Those are numbers we have never seen in D.C..[/quote]

No, but there's really no reason to believe we'd see them in DC from Manning, either.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884638]Even if he had a "steep decline" to 85, that's still pretty damn good. [/quote]

An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884639]No, but there's really no reason to believe we'd see them in DC from Manning, either.[/quote]

Why not? Let's assume that Peyton comes back healthy, maybe limited strength-wise, but still have that brain and leadership. We have a very similar receiving corps to the Colts. System might be very different, but I'd imagine Manning would have just a touch of autonomy in this offense.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884641]An 85 passer rating is basically what Campbell was doing here.[/quote]

I'd have been fine if he stayed too. He was behind what could have been considered one of the worst lines in Redskins history. All I ask for is an improvement in QB play. If it's Peyton, that's an improvement, even if he drops off. If it's Orton, Flynn, Hoyer, me, I don't care... my main thing is that I don't want to gift up draft picks.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884642]Why not? Let's assume that Peyton comes back healthy, maybe limited strength-wise, but still have that brain and leadership. We have a very similar receiving corps to the Colts. System might be very different, but I'd imagine Manning would have just a touch of autonomy in this offense.[/quote]

Why would you assume a player is going to be as good at 36 as he was at 34? And after a year off, multiple surgeries and a change of teams? And I wouldn't agree that our receivers, or pass protection for that matter, are as good as he had in Indy.

But even if he were to get back to that level, my point was more aimed at the totality of his numbers. As much as I think it is unwise to bet on him being as good as he was before the year off, I would say it's doubly or triply foolish to think he's going to go back to what he was in his prime years.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/peyton-manning-washington-redskins-should-get-him-as-soon-as-hes-available/2012/02/08/gIQAg0nRzQ_story_1.html]Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=biffle;884648]Why would you assume a player is going to be as good at 36 as he was at 34? And after a year off, multiple surgeries and a change of teams? And I wouldn't agree that our receivers, or pass protection for that matter, are as good as he had in Indy.

But even if he were to get back to that level, my point was more aimed at the totality of his numbers. As much as I think it is unwise to bet on him being as good as he was before the year off, I would say it's doubly or triply foolish to think he's going to go back to what he was in his prime years.[/quote]

I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/why-would-peyton-manning-want-to-play-for-the-redskins/2012/02/10/gIQAeZxP4Q_blog.html]Why would Peyton Manning want to play for the Redskins? - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

And then a great article by Wise.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;884651]I don't assume that. I DO assume he would be a significant upgrade from what we currently have AND that upgrade would come without giving up draft picks. If he's totally cleared medically to play, I would absolutely bet on him being significantly better than what we currently at QB. Manning from the past? Probably not. I just know that he'd be better than Flynn, Orton or whoever else we can pick up in FA.

NOW, if RGIII falls to us, that's who I want.[/quote]

I was just answering your question of why I didn't think there was any reason to expect to see Manning's old numbers in DC.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;884650]Good read here by Sally Jenkins on Peyton.
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/peyton-manning-washington-redskins-should-get-him-as-soon-as-hes-available/2012/02/08/gIQAg0nRzQ_story_1.html]Peyton Manning: Washington Redskins should get him as soon as he’s available - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

I don't consider that a good read at all, frankly. And not just because I disagree with her. There are multiple posters in this thread who I couldn't disagree with more who've put together much more salient arguments than she did.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.

Re: Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice
 

[quote=Mahons21;884657]I'm not a huge fan of PR personally, as it has already been mentioned Campbell was able to reach a relatively high PR, with quite poor play in my opinion.

Again this is just my personal opinion, but I find DVOA/DYAR from footballoutsiders.com to be a much more accurate indicator of QB play. ESPN has it's own QBR they're attempting now too, which I also believe is better than the standard PR. However Peyton Manning, won't be included on ESPNs because they just started their rating system this year.

Anyways to the point, Manning has remained ranked top 6-7 depending on what stat you're using between DVOA/DYAR. Which I would argue is evidence that he remains one of the top QBs in the league, when healthy, despite his declining PR.

Furthermore in my opinon, Manning's decline will be much less pronounced than other QBs, because his dominance stems more from his mental preparation more so than it does his physical attributes. Manning was never going to wow crowds with his athleticism, and while he can make all the throws in an NFL playbook, he doesn't have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Manning wows the crowds because he knows what plays a defense is running better than they do. This is not a skill that is going to diminish over time, if Manning still has the arm-strength to complete every NFL throw, there's nothing to suggest he can't once again be one of the top franchise QBs in the NFL.[/quote]

Totally agree with your last paragraph

As for ESPN's TQBR, they did spend several years working on it before releasing it and you can see here that Manning is at the top in 2008 and 2009

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons]NFL -- Peyton Manning has top two QBR seasons - ESPN[/url]

And welcome to the board...I hear you've been talking about us over on other boards :)