Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=calia;1328238]The Colts just fired Frank Reich. Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

What the fuck. Meltdown city in Indy

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

not enough talk about how bad Scott Turner is.
No point in having a comparison on anything with him calling plays.

Turner doesn't know how to game plan.
A good OC would script plays to see what the defense is going to do in certain looks then attack from there. Unfortunately, it takes Turner 5 drives to get to the first 20 plays and the half is over.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=calia;1328238]The Colts just fired Frank Reich. Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Well if we would fire Rivera I would welcome Reich here
Edit,nevermind,some of his decisions are baffling

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=jamf;1328252]not enough talk about how bad Scott Turner is.
No point in having a comparison on anything with him calling plays.

Turner doesn't know how to game plan.
A good OC would script plays to see what the defense is going to do in certain looks then attack from there. Unfortunately, it takes Turner 5 drives to get to the first 20 plays and the half is over.[/quote]

It's so bad -- during a recent game I was watching with my wife, and I accurately predicted probably 80% of the plays just before the ball was snapped. And I don't know shit about football. So if I can figure it out, opposing defenses and D coordinators must be able to sniff things out far easier and earlier. Turner doesn't seem to adjust either -- he is missing the "ain't" in the aphorism, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

I dont know ... I like scott turner more than I dont like him. We didnt like oconnell, jay gruden, kyle shanahan either.

I think being the OC of this team with the QBs weve had ... youre always handicapped. You are always compromising your playcalls and then when you do make a good call but the QB doesnt see and throw it .. we blame the playcall bc we cant tell from the TV feed whats happening down field.

I dont think half the OCs in the league could do what he did last year with Heinike.

Youre in nascar race but they give you the pinto.

"experts" who dissect the 22 give him credit as a play designer and caller.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1328272]I dont know ... I like scott turner more than I dont like him. We didnt like oconnell, jay gruden, kyle shanahan either.

I think being the OC of this team with the QBs weve had ... youre always handicapped. You are always compromising your playcalls and then when you do make a good call but the QB doesnt see and throw it .. we blame the playcall bc we cant tell from the TV feed whats happening down field.

I dont think half the OCs in the league could do what he did last year with Heinike.

Youre in nascar race but they give you the pinto.

"experts" who dissect the 22 give him credit as a play designer and caller.[/quote]

All good points. It's easy to blame Turner (and I have), but in reality with the QBs he has been given and the carousel of offensive linemen in front of these QBs, it must be quite the task to develop a game plan against a competent defense.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1328272]I dont know ... I like scott turner more than I dont like him. We didnt like oconnell, jay gruden, kyle shanahan either.

I think being the OC of this team with the QBs weve had ... youre always handicapped. You are always compromising your playcalls and then when you do make a good call but the QB doesnt see and throw it .. we blame the playcall bc we cant tell from the TV feed whats happening down field.

I dont think half the OCs in the league could do what he did last year with Heinike.

Youre in nascar race but they give you the pinto.

"experts" who dissect the 22 give him credit as a play designer and caller.[/quote]

What's his excuse this year since everyone is healthy and who are these experts? I need to see an article.

Turner's O is second to last in points (6pts ave)in the first half of games this year and dead last since he's been our OC.
The team is 29th in points per play ave.

THere's no meaningful offensive stat where the team is top 15.

Heinicke looks good slinging it while down two touchdowns, glitter titties.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Let’s be real .. We all watch the games and bash Taylor ..even his Big plays seem to be lucky .. so if he is as bad as WE all say he is pray tell how any OC can find success with him .. you can’t hide his flaws but for so long and even with a great D performance we could not overcome Taylor ..

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=SunnySide;1328272]I dont know ... I like scott turner more than I dont like him. We didnt like oconnell, jay gruden, kyle shanahan either.

I think being the OC of this team with the QBs weve had ... youre always handicapped. You are always compromising your playcalls and then when you do make a good call but the QB doesnt see and throw it .. we blame the playcall bc we cant tell from the TV feed whats happening down field.

I dont think half the OCs in the league could do what he did last year with Heinike.

Youre in nascar race but they give you the pinto.

"experts" who dissect the 22 give him credit as a play designer and caller.[/quote]

Wait? Who didn't like O'Connell or Shannahan? I actually thought they were pretty innovative with our offense given the limitations of personnel.

No one would dispute that our QB situation is bad, but it seems like there's far too little done to adjust to the strengths and weaknesses. TH doesn't have a big arm -- so don't have him flutter stuff deep (we've been bailed out by Terry and Curtis, but it's not something we should be scheming to do). Also, 7 step drops seem like a bad idea because he doesn't need to time to uncork a bomb. Also, his decision-making isn't great -- so get the ball out quickly to the first read or maybe the second. After that, we're in trouble anyway. TH can move -- so get him out of the pocket and throwing on the move. Admittedly, I do not know squat about football, but there are plenty of people that do (per reporting by Keim, Finley, etc.) who are talking about these kinds of adjustments to what we're doing.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Scott Turner is an OC because of his father. He has zero business in the NFL. He is absolutely clueless. I can’t even believe it is a conversation.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

We have weapons… why is it we can’t run a screen ?? Other teams beat us with screens and we can’t get anything out of it … there were a lot of plays Sunday that I knew what we were gonna run .. so if a dummy like me knows …smh 😀

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

All Scott has to do is to get the running in a flow, everything opens after that. Get some screens, get the TE’s involved (especially Rogers) our TE’s are under utilized. Rogers is our secret weapon, he’s fast, athletic and can pass the ball. Find a way to exploit defenses with him.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

With 8:54 left in the game, Gibson loses 1 yard on 1st down run, next play Heinecken panics an overthrows for an int. Instead of sticking with the run. I blame Turner for running, passing, passing. Let the running game get in a flow, use your TE to block like he’s done in the past.

Many of you are pissed at Ridgeway, remember he's a rookie and a very promising future defensive lineman: [url]https://riggosrag.com/2022/11/06/commanders-making-cowboys-look-silly-john-ridgeway-claim/[/url]

[url]https://www.commanders.com/news/john-ridgeway-has-been-a-great-addition-to-commanders-d-line[/url]

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Was listening to Sheehan’s Monday pod. With TH at QB we have become worse on third down conversations and our offensive DVOA has dropped to 30th. I still don’t put CW in, the offense looks better with eye test minus first two games of season, plus we know he is not here next year. I’d stick with TH see if things can improve and then got to Sam after bye

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1328300]With 8:54 left in the game, Gibson loses 1 yard on 1st down run, next play Heinecken panics an overthrows for an int. Instead of sticking with the run. I blame Turner for running, passing, passing. Let the running game get in a flow, use your TE to block like he’s done in the past.



Many of you are pissed at Ridgeway, remember he's a rookie and a very promising future defensive lineman: [url]https://riggosrag.com/2022/11/06/commanders-making-cowboys-look-silly-john-ridgeway-claim/[/url]



[url]https://www.commanders.com/news/john-ridgeway-has-been-a-great-addition-to-commanders-d-line[/url][/QUOTE]One thing about the Ridgeway penalty, I haven't read anything about it, but I can't think he went free lance and decided to do this stunt on his own. Like he was aligned on the right side of the center and went all the way to his left right ? That's playcall. I understand he's not supposed to hit the center on this play, but how do you have a rookie run this very risky move at this point in the game ? That's asking for trouble...

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1328308]One thing about the Ridgeway penalty, I haven't read anything about it, but I can't think he went free lance and decided to do this stunt on his own. Like he was aligned on the right side of the center and went all the way to his left right ? That's playcall. I understand he's not supposed to hit the center on this play, but how do you have a rookie run this very risky move at this point in the game ? That's asking for trouble...

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk[/quote]

You don't. And RR's post-game reaction tells me that Ridgeway was coached to do it that way. If you look at the extra point before that FG try where the penalty was called, he did the same thing on that play too. It's a clear penalty, so basically they are coaching him the wrong way to rush on the extra point / FG try. There's only a couple ways to get a penalty on the FG or extra point try...you jump offsides, you run into the kicker, or you do what Ridgeway did. It's unacceptable really. Every arm chair NFL Coach knows you can't do that, so why are they coaching it that way?

It's not the reason they lost the game, but it didn't help, and there's no excuse for it. You wouldn't see a Jim Harbaugh coached team do that...or almost any other team in the NFL for that matter.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1328305]Was listening to Sheehan’s Monday pod. With TH at QB we have become worse on third down conversations and our offensive DVOA has dropped to 30th. I still don’t put CW in, the offense looks better with eye test minus first two games of season, plus we know he is not here next year. I’d stick with TH see if things can improve and then got to Sam after bye[/quote]

They are going back to Wentz, Ron said it when he got hurt

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1328325]They are going back to Wentz, Ron said it when he got hurt[/quote]

Huge mistake!! CW is a sitting duck. TH hasn’t had the luxury of having Dotson as a weapon, I hope he plays Monday night.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1328325]They are going back to Wentz, Ron said it when he got hurt[/quote]

It makes sense. They are still in the driver's seat for the second or third wild card spot. Heinicke has managed to win a couple games, but not because he's better than Wentz. Wentz is still the better QB, and despite his inferior ability to move around in the pocket, he probably still gives this team the best chance to win.

Personally, I'd like to see Howell. But they aren't going to throw him to the wolves on Monday night against the undefeated Eagles, and he just may not be ready. You have to go with your best option until you are mathematically eliminated. You owe it to the rest of the players on the team.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=jamf;1328278]What's his excuse this year since everyone is healthy and who are these experts? I need to see an article.

Turner's O is second to last in points (6pts ave)in the first half of games this year and dead last since he's been our OC.
The team is 29th in points per play ave.

THere's no meaningful offensive stat where the team is top 15.

Heinicke looks good slinging it while down two touchdowns, glitter titties.[/quote]

really its Logan Paulsen who does the radio pre game show for about an hour before games, podcast take command w hoffman, does tv segments, radio interviews

Hes basically Chris Cooley

But its not all glowing. theyve taken him to task for not gearing his play calling to his players strengths, not utilizing Terry properly, run under center tendencies

For no meaningful offense stats in top 15 ... Im not a defender of this offense. I am a defender of the thought that we need a QB who can make all throws. Wentz is an incomplete QB, heinike is an incomplete QB.

2nd half on sunday we showed some unique looks, that jet sweep to samuel for a big 3rd down, that double reverse thing back to Heinike that didnt pan out, adjusted and had much better pass pro in the second half

Bottom line is this offense is around 20th in the league.

imo Turner needs to embrace the Heinike ball. Run trips, mckissic has been injured but get him and gibson on the field at the same time then run one wide, more pre snap motion (even though we do a good bit of it), hit terry on screens and crosses, find TEs in the seams .. run what you did well last year but this time we have a healthy Curtis Samuel and a more balanced run game w Robinson.

Im not a huge Turner fan boy but I think hes doing pretty good with what we have under center.

-----

edit - sorry for the weak opinionated subjective answer and not providing article links, ill listen to some podcasts at work and see if any do a good job

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1328296]All Scott has to do is to get the running in a flow, everything opens after that. Get some screens, get the TE’s involved (especially Rogers) our TE’s are under utilized. Rogers is our secret weapon, he’s fast, athletic and can pass the ball. Find a way to exploit defenses with him.[/quote]

TE not being used /targeted is baffling at this point.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=calia;1328285]TH can move -- so get him out of the pocket and throwing on the move. Admittedly, I do not know squat about football, but there are plenty of people that do (per reporting by Keim, Finley, etc.) who are talking about these kinds of adjustments to what we're doing.[/quote]

I've been saying it in the game threads since Heinicke stepped on the field this season. You can add BMitch in there as well, as he said as much on the post game show after Sunday's game (ie, getting Heinicke on the move and stop overly using him as a pocket passer).

If you're gonna play someone then devise a game plan to said players' strength. Move Heinicke around. Utilize more RPO action ala the Falcons and Eagles since we have a QB who's a threat to use his legs.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Scott Turner just sucks.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

This was honestly a great game with a bad ending, this game won't hurt when looking back on the season, the fucking loss to DET is going to burn if we just miss the playoffs.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Not even mad about this loss.

Snyder is selling the team.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1328394]Not even mad about this loss.

Snyder is selling the team.[/quote]

Pretty much how I feel. Everything is lame duck until a new owner takes over.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1328395]Pretty much how I feel. Everything is lame duck until a new owner takes over.[/quote]

Agree.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1328394]Not even mad about this loss.

Snyder is selling the team.[/quote]

The day it sells I will play this on a continuous loop.


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPIdRJlzERo[/url]

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[YT]9rN4xZmbPio[/YT]

So bad I'm actually starting to like it

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

LOL Me too

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1328329]It makes sense. They are still in the driver's seat for the second or third wild card spot. Heinicke has managed to win a couple games, but not because he's better than Wentz. Wentz is still the better QB, and despite his inferior ability to move around in the pocket, he probably still gives this team the best chance to win.

Personally, I'd like to see Howell. But they aren't going to throw him to the wolves on Monday night against the undefeated Eagles, and he just may not be ready. You have to go with your best option until you are mathematically eliminated. You owe it to the rest of the players on the team.[/quote]

OK, I must disagree with most of what you posted. Regarding Wentz, his numbers and arm strength are irrelevant because he is a scared choke artist with the game on the line. His is also a statue and he takes way too many sacks which have hurt the team. So, I say no to Wentz no matter what the standings say because he has become a loser.

Before you say what RR owes the players at QB, it would be informative to hear what the players think about the three of them. Of course I realize that players are highly unlikely to speak up about what they want.

Also, I say no to waiting until the team is mathematically eliminated. In my humble, ignorant and probably misguided opinion we already know that Wentz and TH can't get us what we need at QB to be to be a contender. If we wait until RR thinks Howell is ready it will be about three years from now. So, I actually hope we lose four in a row so we can get Howell enough playing time to find out if he could be The Man.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Ron isn't giving up on Wentz. He's definitely going back to him when he's ready, unless TH just balls the F out and I think we already know he's not going to suddenly turn into a legit starter.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1328422]Ron isn't giving up on Wentz. He's definitely going back to him when he's ready, unless TH just balls the F out and I think we already know he's not going to suddenly turn into a legit starter.[/quote]

I believe you but the truth hurts me. I'm just hoping that ,some way, we get to see what Sam Howell has to offer this season.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1328420]OK, I must disagree with most of what you posted. Regarding Wentz, his numbers and arm strength are irrelevant because he is a scared choke artist with the game on the line. His is also a statue and he takes way too many sacks which have hurt the team. So, I say no to Wentz no matter what the standings say because he has become a loser.

Before you say what RR owes the players at QB, it would be informative to hear what the players think about the three of them. Of course I realize that players are highly unlikely to speak up about what they want.

Also, I say no to waiting until the team is mathematically eliminated. In my humble, ignorant and probably misguided opinion we already know that Wentz and TH can't get us what we need at QB to be to be a contender. If we wait until RR thinks Howell is ready it will be about three years from now. So, I actually hope we lose four in a row so we can get Howell enough playing time to find out if he could be The Man.[/quote]

Disagreement is cool. :joecool:

But I don't know that Wentz would take more sacks than Heinicke if they were behind the same offensive line. Wentz has taken a lot of sacks - yes, but the offensive line was also playing much worse than it has in the past few weeks. Last year in 17 games Wentz was sacked 32 times, while Heinicke was sacked 38 times in 16 games, behind a better O-line.

It does seem like the players really like Heinicke, but I would bet that they also know his limitations, just as the casual fan can see them. And I'm not so sure they don't like Wentz just as much or more. I am definitely speculating that the majority of the players in that locker room think that Wentz give the team the best chance to win. I personally think he does, and I think that most people who know anything about football or QB play, and can be objective, will tell you that Wentz is the better QB. I've personally seen enough of Heinicke. Both QBs have their flaws, but in my opinion, if all things are equal (o-line playing better, defense playing better, etc), Wentz gives the team the best chance to win, and the players likely understand that too. Heinicke just throws it up for grabs too much. I get giving your guy a chance to make a play. Sometimes it works out for him because Terry makes a fabulous contested catch, or a referee knocks down one of the three defenders giving Samuel a chance to catch the eyes closed - Hail Mary heave into triple coverage, but that's not going to win you more games than you'll lose.

The Howell situation is tough. Like I said, I would like to see what he can do. However, if he isn't ready and everyone in that locker room knows he isn't the best option, that's a bad message to send to the players - who I think are all playing their asses off still.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Unless TH gets hurt in the game this week, we will not see Sam Howell, Wentz is back after the Eagles game

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

Only thing we know for sure is Wentz isn't the long term answer and neither is Heinicke. Is it Howell? No idea and we probably aren't going to find out this year. It's back to a serious QB hunt this offseason.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1328442]Only thing we know for sure is Wentz isn't the long term answer and neither is Heinicke. Is it Howell? No idea and we probably aren't going to find out this year. It's back to a serious QB hunt this offseason.[/quote]

With new ownership too

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1328442]Only thing we know for sure is Wentz isn't the long term answer and neither is Heinicke. Is it Howell? No idea and we probably aren't going to find out this year. It's back to a serious QB hunt this offseason.[/quote]

I tend to agree with this for the most part. However, there is still a small possibility that this thing takes off with Wentz as the QB in the second half of the season, and if so, that at least opens up the possibility of Wentz being here longer than we think. I don't think it's likely, but you never know.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1328449]I tend to agree with this for the most part. However, there is still a small possibility that this thing takes off with Wentz as the QB in the second half of the season, and if so, that at least opens up the possibility of Wentz being here longer than we think. I don't think it's likely, but you never know.[/quote]

They can dump Wentz after this season and they should do so unless he takes the team on a big win streak. Keeping him would necessitate too big a cap hit to take next season for someone who may not be the answer.

Re: Vikings Post-game Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1328442]Only thing we know for sure is Wentz isn't the long term answer and neither is Heinicke. Is it Howell? No idea and we probably aren't going to find out this year. It's back to a serious QB hunt this offseason.[/quote]

If we continue to lose and Howell isn't given a shot at some point, that would be malpractice, IMO. We need to see what he can do before we draft a QB in Round 1.