Re: Parkland Shooting
 

More guns = more problems

Arming teachers is just asinine

Now Trump is blaming video games? So guns in a video game are the problem but not the real ones? Brilliant

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1189034]More guns = more problems

Arming teachers is just asinine

Now Trump is blaming video games? So guns in a video game are the problem but not the real ones? Brilliant[/QUOTE]Rap music, Marilyn Manson, video games, medications and parents. But never ever the guns or the ads used to sell them.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=MTK;1189034][B]More guns = more problems
[/B]
Arming teachers is just asinine

Now Trump is blaming video games? So guns in a video game are the problem but not the real ones? Brilliant[/quote]

Sorry Matty, I know we disagree on all this stuff, but the bolded line is pure BS.

Are you saying Baltimore Police should be unarmed? Md has decent gun laws. Again, let the politicians go without their armed guards, and see how that fares.

Bad people doing bad things is bad for those who are devastated by it. Politicians making bad laws immediately after bad things happen is bad for the future of our society.

At least Trump is talking about ALL the aspects, mental health, gun ownership ages, yes, even video games can feed an unhealthy mentality. Liberals want to act like a gun free zone would save the world. It won't, ever.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

F it let’s just arm everyone Wild West style

Guns don’t solve problems or prevent them

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

One of the laziest arguments out there is trying to blame video games

[url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2018/02/22/trump-blames-violent-video-games-for-school-shootings-heres-why-hes-wrong/amp/[/url]

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=Dan73;1189038]Rap music, Marilyn Manson, video games, medications and parents. But never ever the guns or the ads used to sell them.

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The first sentence looks at what caused a person to do an evil act, and can we reduce or rehabilitate those. The second sentence looks at an inanimate object that has been used to save thousands or tens of thousands of lives when held by people with good intent.

Yes, imo, the focus should be on looking at personal responibility, and getting help to those who need it, BEFORE, they have set in their hearts to do evil.

The Parkland shooting shows us again, the systems were in place to stop it, but the almighty government and the individual guard who were alerted and could have stopped it - failed. It's that simple and tragic. You can ban whatever guns you want, there will always be a way for a person intent on an evil act to accomplish it.

HYPOTHETICAL, suppose Nikolas, instead of using a gun, had plowed his car through the parking lot, would you be calling on an end to high schoolers being able to park on school property? Of course not, and driving kills far more people per year than gun violence. And it's not a protected right in the Bill of Rights.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1189047]The first sentence looks at what caused a person to do an evil act, and can we reduce or rehabilitate those. The second sentence looks at an inanimate object that has been used to save thousands or tens of thousands of lives when held by people with good intent.

Yes, imo, the focus should be on looking at personal responibility, and getting help to those who need it, BEFORE, they have set in their hearts to do evil.

The Parkland shooting shows us again, the systems were in place to stop it, but the almighty government and the individual guard who were alerted and could have stopped it - failed. It's that simple and tragic. You can ban whatever guns you want, there will always be a way for a person intent on an evil act to accomplish it.

HYPOTHETICAL, suppose Nikolas, instead of using a gun, had plowed his car through the parking lot, would you be calling on an end to high schoolers being able to park on school property? Of course not, and driving kills far more people per year than gun violence. And it's not a protected right in the Bill of Rights.[/QUOTE]First off cars aren't designed to take lives. They are not promoted as ways to deal with other people with whom you have conflict up to including the government.

When I was younger you bought a hunting rifle now you buy an assault rifle.

When cars are advertised as ways to deal with other people then make laws to reduce that happening.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1189044]F it let’s just arm everyone Wild West style

Guns don’t solve problems or prevent them[/QUOTE]That is the gun manufacturers wet dream. Everyone gets so scared they run out and buy guns.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=Dan73;1189048]First off cars aren't designed to take lives. They are not promoted as ways to deal with other people with whom you have conflict up to including the government.

When I was younger you bought a hunting rifle now you buy an assault rifle.

When cars are advertised as ways to deal with other people then make laws to reduce that happening.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/quote]

I have never seen a gun advertisement showing a young man of good intent walking into a school and shooting the occupants.

I have seen terrorists in NY London Germany and Paris use vehicles as weapons of destruction.

We see more deaths by cars then by guns every year.

All that said, add background checks and raise the age to 21 for non-military. It will be as illegal then to use it as it was when Nikolas went into that school. The laws on the books did not stop him. But preventive steps could have.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=MTK;1189044]F it let’s just arm everyone Wild West style

Guns don’t solve problems or prevent them[/quote]

There are steps to take, but to blame the object (gun) as the primary focus ignores the realities that there are a lot of other steps that can be taken and have more net positive effect.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

Common sense laws are all any reasonable people are looking for, low hanging fruit like raising the age to 21 and strict background checks. Why is that so much to ask for without the response being you’re coming for our guns

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1189050]I have never seen a gun advertisement showing a young man of good intent walking into a school and shooting the occupants.

I have seen terrorists in NY London Germany and Paris use vehicles as weapons of destruction.

We see more deaths by cars then by guns every year.

All that said, add background checks and raise the age to 21 for non-military. It will be as illegal then to use it as it was when Nikolas went into that school. The laws on the books did not stop him. But preventive steps could have.[/QUOTE]Yes we have car accidents and there are laws to made to cut down on those. For instance cars have to have all sorts of safety features. And manufacturers can be held liable.

I have never seen fertilizer advertisements showing bomb as an option for it. But start buying a bunch and watch the government come checking.

And let's cut the crap that guns save lives. They do not perform CPR or perform surgery. They just wound or kill others.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1189052]Common sense laws are all any reasonable people are looking for, low hanging fruit like raising the age to 21 and strict background checks. Why is that so much to ask for without the response being you’re coming for our guns[/QUOTE]Actually I want all gun owners to carry insurance. Your kid shoots someone with you gun you bear the costs. Your gun is used in a crime and you didn't report it stolen your financially responsible.

I would also want everyone licensed before they can have one.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Dan73;1189054]Actually I want all gun owners to carry insurance. Your kid shoots someone with you gun you bear the costs. Your gun is used in a crime and you didn't report it stolen your financially responsible.

I would also want everyone licensed before they can have one.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]I actually like the insurance idea.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=MTK;1189052]Common sense laws are all any reasonable people are looking for, low hanging fruit like raising the age to 21 and strict background checks. Why is that so much to ask for without the response being you’re coming for our guns[/quote]

Because their stance, when you strip down all the window dressing and superfluous nonsense, is basically some derivative of "fuck you I like my gun".

It's asinine. Nobody needs an AR15, they do far more harm than good in society so thus should be banned. Background checks should require everyone to sit in front of as many qualified individuals who can assess human behavior and identify mental stability and emotional state.

But ultimately, fuck you, I like my gun.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1189051]There are steps to take, but to blame the object (gun) as the primary focus ignores the realities that there are a lot of other steps that can be taken and have more net positive effect.[/quote]

Completely disagree. The problem in Parkland was that obviously unstable asshole had access to a gun capable of firing a shit ton of rounds in a very short time.

Fixing someone's mental health - the right acts like that's as simple as going to the doctor and getting antibiotics for a sore throat.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1189055]I actually like the insurance idea.[/QUOTE]I don't have a problem with responsible gun ownership. I have seen insurance as a step in that direction



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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1189058]Completely disagree. The problem in Parkland was that obviously unstable asshole had access to a gun capable of firing a shit ton of rounds in a very short time.

Fixing someone's mental health - the right acts like that's as simple as going to the doctor and getting antibiotics for a sore throat.[/QUOTE]One of the big lies used recently is that guns haven't changed. Every gun I used when I was younger had either bolt or pump action or I had to cock the hammer.

Bit more difficult to go on a spree with limited ammo or if you have to manually chamber a round.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1189050]I have never seen a gun advertisement showing a young man of good intent walking into a school and shooting the occupants.

I have seen terrorists in NY London Germany and Paris use vehicles as weapons of destruction.

We see more deaths by cars then by guns every year.

All that said, add background checks and raise the age to 21 for non-military. It will be as illegal then to use it as it was when Nikolas went into that school. The laws on the books did not stop him. But preventive steps could have.[/quote]
See I am against the 21 year rule .I am old but I still believe if I can fight for my country I should be allowed to do everything else ,have a drink,own a gun and rent a car.
I see other ways , to own you must have a license and you must have insurance and yes tax the hell out of ammo and the guns themselves. You must pass a test like you do for a car and finally a physical evaluation.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1189056]Because their stance, when you strip down all the window dressing and superfluous nonsense, is basically some derivative of "fuck you I like my gun".



It's asinine. Nobody needs an AR15, they do far more harm than good in society so thus should be banned. Background checks should require everyone to sit in front of as many qualified individuals who can assess human behavior and identify mental stability and emotional state.



But ultimately, fuck you, I like my gun.[/QUOTE]


Yup, guns > our children too apparently

20 years of this senseless shit and no real changes

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1189068]Yup, guns > our children too apparently

20 years of this senseless shit and no real changes[/QUOTE]That's more BS and part of the reason discussion becomes so hard. We all want our children safe. The approach and ideas of what works is where we differ.

As for the 20 years. The country has moved more and more towards gun free zones "safe" spaces and stricter regulations and what we have gotten is more and more devastating attacks.

Maybe we try to stop politicizing and demonizing the other side and listen to both sides for ideas and rationales.

There is a reason police forces are armed, a reason why private security firms exist. We defend politicians and executives with armed guards, metal detectors, and security checks of individuals. But those aren't worth considering for our kids because guns are bad.

There are solutions that can include gun laws but there are 0 solutions that only have gun laws.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1189074]That's more BS and part of the reason discussion becomes so hard. We all want our children safe. The approach and ideas of what works is where we differ.

As for the 20 years. The country has moved more and more towards gun free zones "safe" spaces and stricter regulations and what we have gotten is more and more devastating attacks.

Maybe we try to stop politicizing and demonizing the other side and listen to both sides for ideas and rationales.

There is a reason police forces are armed, a reason why private security firms exist. We defend politicians and executives with armed guards, metal detectors, and security checks of individuals. But those aren't worth considering for our kids because guns are bad.

There are solutions that can include gun laws but there are 0 solutions that only have gun laws.[/QUOTE]Of course police carry guns. You have tons of citizens now armed. And now you get complaints about too many police shootings. Meanwhile other countries don't arm all police officers.

And not there has not been move to do away with guns. Back in the 90's while sanity was still around you had the assault rifle ban.

But at the same time talk radio was giving the gun manufacturers a platform to spout fear and that coupled with anti government crap especially people like Liddy saying aim for their head talking about government agents.

Your solution is more people taking up the tools to end life and harm others.

People who promote being prepared to kill others are no different than those who promote abortion as a means of birth control.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=Dan73;118907]People who promote being prepared to kill others are no different than those who promote abortion as a means of birth control.

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I hate guns but that is absurd ,stay on point.

Parkland Shooting
 

I’m done with the excuses. 20 years of school shootings and the NRA is still in too many pockets in DC. That’s what it boils down to.

Schools can’t afford basic supplies and can’t pay teachers yet the answer is to spend money on arming and training them to shoot their students if they have to?

Please, fucking ridiculous

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1189078]I hate guns but that is absurd ,stay on point.[/QUOTE]Not really. Anytime you promote the idea of killing another to protect property or wealth or to deal with a difficult situation you are floating the same idea by both groups. Just the means differ.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1189079]I’m done with the excuses. 20 years of school shootings and the NRA is still in too many pockets in DC. That’s what it boils down to.

Schools can’t afford basic supplies and can’t pay teachers yet the answer is to spend money on arming and training them to shoot their students if they have to?

Please, fucking ridiculous[/QUOTE]I have a feeling in some states all of sudden there would be money for schools to buy guns.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=Dan73;1189076]

People who promote being prepared to kill others are no different than those who promote abortion as a means of birth control.

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wow lost it on this one.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1189104]wow lost it on this one.[/QUOTE]Not really both sides are really not all that different. They both feel they are morally justifiable with their views but when it comes down to it both groups have those willing to kill others to protect wealth and self.

I have always said any laws or regulations imposed on one group should have corresponding laws and regulations imposed on the other group.

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Re: Parkland Shooting
 

How do you defend this.............




[url]https://www.yahoo.com/gma/toddler-2-dies-self-inflicted-gunshot-parents-not-072003414--abc-news-topstories.html[/url]

A toddler somehow got his hands on a pistol and fatally shot himself in the head in a tragic accident in Fresno, California, on Saturday.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=Giantone;1196334]How do you defend this.............




[url]https://www.yahoo.com/gma/toddler-2-dies-self-inflicted-gunshot-parents-not-072003414--abc-news-topstories.html[/url]

A toddler somehow got his hands on a pistol and fatally shot himself in the head in a tragic accident in Fresno, California, on Saturday.[/quote]

It's the price we have to pay for the freedom to carry.

This was an interesting discussion, not sure how I missed it.

I agree, common sense gun laws are all I want. Better background checks (maybe a law saying if you've been involuntarily committed to a mental facility you can't own a gun), raise the minimum age for assault rifle ownership to 21+, and if you want to regulate guns like you regulate cars (have to pass a test to get a license) I'm all for it. That's the part of the argument "people kill people with cars too" that people forget. Cars are heavily regulated, even more so for people under 18. Why should guns be any different?

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=mooby;1196347]It's the price we have to pay for the freedom to carry.

This was an interesting discussion, not sure how I missed it.

I agree, common sense gun laws are all I want. Better background checks (maybe a law saying if you've been involuntarily committed to a mental facility you can't own a gun), raise the minimum age for assault rifle ownership to 21+, and if you want to regulate guns like you regulate cars (have to pass a test to get a license) I'm all for it. That's the part of the argument "people kill people with cars too" that people forget. Cars are heavily regulated, even more so for people under 18. Why should guns be any different?[/quote]

That has always been my argument as well , no one is coming for the guns but things like this should make people scream for smarter gun laws.The NRA should be leading the pack on smart gun control.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

Too bad a good guy with a gun wasn’t near by to shoot the gun out of the kid’s hands

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=Giantone;1196334]How do you defend this.............




[url]https://www.yahoo.com/gma/toddler-2-dies-self-inflicted-gunshot-parents-not-072003414--abc-news-topstories.html[/url]

A toddler somehow got his hands on a pistol and fatally shot himself in the head in a tragic accident in Fresno, California, on Saturday.[/quote]

Someone needs to be arrested when care givers, parents, etc let this happen. Involuntary manslaughter at a minimum. Simply zero excuse.

a similar incident this just happened in a Richmond ghetto bout 3 weeks ago. No charges.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1196354]Too bad a good guy with a gun wasn’t near by to shoot the gun out of the kid’s hands[/QUOTE]I know you are being snarky, but i bet if you walk in that house you would find all kinds of child safety locks throughout. For a gun to be left loaded and unsecure with a toddler in the house is pure negligence on the parents part.

Most of the defense against nanny state laws is that people need to be held accountable for the consequences of their own actions. While the parents will likely never forgive themselves the state has an obligation to punish them as well, and take away their guns.

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=MTK;1196354]Too bad a good guy with a gun wasn’t near by to shoot the gun out of the kid’s hands[/quote]
.........true , maybe a armed teacher from a near by school could have stop it?

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

Interesting development

[URL="https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter/story?id=57151343"]Florida 'stand your ground' shooter Michael Drejka charged with manslaughter[/URL]

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=MTK;1197874]Interesting development

[URL="https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter/story?id=57151343"]Florida 'stand your ground' shooter Michael Drejka charged with manslaughter[/URL][/quote]

interesting. Glad he is being prosecuted.

Just from a common sense perspective, while stand your ground does have some redeeming value in certain, rare cases....do we really want to justify killing someone after getting pushed to the ground?

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

[quote=MTK;1197874]Interesting development

[URL="https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter/story?id=57151343"]Florida 'stand your ground' shooter Michael Drejka charged with manslaughter[/URL][/quote]

Good, it's Florida and I realize he might(probably will) get off put at least he will have to justify his actions!

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

This is a good development. As i said before, the prosecutors have all the information and if it didnt meet the burden of fear for his life he should be charged.[QUOTE=MTK;1197874]Interesting development

[URL="https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooter-florida-stand-ground-case-charged-manslaughter/story?id=57151343"]Florida 'stand your ground' shooter Michael Drejka charged with manslaughter[/URL][/QUOTE]

Re: Parkland Shooting
 

Boy, if only there was [URL="https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/parents-of-jacksonville-shooting-suspect-had-been-desperate-to-find-psychiatric-care-for-son/ar-BBMyAvE?li=BBnbfcL"]some link[/URL] between mass shooters and mental instability. If only there was some way we could flag those who have mental issues [I]and a history of verbal and/or violent outbursts[/I] so they couldn't legally buy guns?