Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

Speaking of the Eagles, how did we only win by 3 and with a last minute comeback? [url=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2015100405/2015/REG4/eagles@redskins#menu=gameinfo%7CcontentId%3A0ap3000000549300&tab=analyze]Watch Philadelphia Eagles vs. Washington Redskins [10/04/2015] - NFL.com[/url]

You'd think we would have won by more. We'd better be more efficient in terms of points this week.

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

My boy just hit me up and said "multiple sources" say eagles want RG3 badly .. smh

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1133785]Goldson is day-to-day with a rib fracture? Damn, I'm truly impressed. He is one tough man.[/quote]

I was thinking that too...Dashon has been a huge pick up- locker room leader & no slouch on the field either. Now I add tough guy to that list.

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Here is a question that i don't really have an answer for:

Seeing all of the guys who are "day to day" on injury report, WHO actually makes the decision on if a player plays or not? Is it the team doctor? or the player?

Say for example someone like Alfred Morris has some kind of injury, let's just say it is his knee. Medical logic says he should set, but what if Morris was just 100% dead set on playing and helping the team? Could he make the decision to play on a bad knee / play injured, etc? Or does a higher power so to speak rule him out???

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Griffin won't last 10 games in chips offense he's not an accurate enough passer

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[quote=SolidSnake84;1133805]Here is a question that i don't really have an answer for:

Seeing all of the guys who are "day to day" on injury report, WHO actually makes the decision on if a player plays or not? Is it the team doctor? or the player?

Say for example someone like Alfred Morris has some kind of injury, let's just say it is his knee. Medical logic says he should set, but what if Morris was just 100% dead set on playing and helping the team? Could he make the decision to play on a bad knee / play injured, etc? Or does a higher power so to speak rule him out???[/quote]

I would say with what's at stake everyone will play unless it's really bad. If they win they can rest them the following week.

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

Most times when someone is listed day-to-day they end up playing, it's just that the coaches don't want to say so too soon in case of that small chance something goes wrong later in the week.

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Day to day means exactly what it says. The injury will be evaluated on a daily basis and a decision regarding availability to play will be made when it is necessary based on league rules.

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1133806]Griffin won't last 10 games in chips offense he's not an accurate enough passer[/quote]

When RG3 finally decides to release the ball, he is a good passer. He just has to make the decision to throw it and not stand in the pocket until he takes a sack. The problem RG3 will have in Chips system is making fast decisions and acting on them correctly. Doesnt matter if people get open if he wont throw the ball on time.

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[quote=Meks;1133794]My boy just hit me up and said "multiple sources" say eagles want RG3 badly .. smh[/quote]

I hope RGIII lands a starter job somewhere in the NFL. He has handled his demotion with class, just as I would have expected from a man of his sterling character. I wish him happiness and success.

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I think his ego combined with Kellys ego would be fireworks waiting to happen.

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Why in the hell is RG3 being talked about? Who gives a fuck really.


Got to say I'm proud of the team for winning 2 in a row and the game was no doubt huge in the grand scheme of it all. Crowder's fumble and the long TDs were my only gripes about the game in general. Hope they carry this momentum into Philly because this game is for all the marbles.

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[quote=KI Skins Fan;1133826]I hope RGIII lands a starter job somewhere in the NFL. He has handled his demotion with class, just as I would have expected from a man of his sterling character. I wish him happiness and success.[/quote]

My early QB movement predictions:

RG3 - Kansas City

Bradford - Cleveland

Kaperneck, Dak Prescott - Eagles

Johnny Football - Dallas

Paxton Lynch - San Fran

Jared Goff - St. Louis (L.A.)

Conner Cook - Houston

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I'm thinking:

RGIII - Houston
Bradford stays in Philly
Manziel - Dallas
Kap - ???

As for the rooks, I have no clue.

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At this point, the only way Bradford stays is if they advance in the playoffs.

Cleveland would back the truck up for him


RG3 may want to go home, but Bill Obrien wants a traditional QB in Houston for his offense. Cook at MSU is about as traditional as they come.

Reid really liked RG3 in the draft and he has a record with athletic guys with big arms. Alex Smith could end up somewhere like Houston

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1133835]Why in the hell is RG3 being talked about? Who gives a fuck really.


Got to say I'm proud of the team for winning 2 in a row and the game was no doubt huge in the grand scheme of it all. Crowder's fumble and the long TDs were my only gripes about the game in general. Hope they carry this momentum into Philly because this game is for all the marbles.[/quote]

I think good organizations respect players who brought something to their team. Yes we need to release him, but I think at this point we talk about him as a thank you for the 2012 season and give him a start to his next point on the horizon.

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[quote=JoeRedskin;1133837]I'm thinking:

RGIII - Houston
Bradford stays in Philly
Manziel - Dallas
Kap - ???

As for the rooks, I have no clue.[/quote]

How is Bradford gonna stay in Philly when our Baker makes a philly cheesesteak out of him this weekend???

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1133712].....I have fluctuated a little on Gruden, but what I think we have been seeing is a coach who has been guiding his team in a slow positive manner.... and that a LOT of the changes and points of emphasis are just now coming to fruition.[/quote]I still have serious doubts about ole Grudes. The playcalling mix was much better against the Bills then any point this season. There was an upredictability on 1st down that certainly helped the run game and he DY was on the field more. Hopefully he can maintain that over the rest of the season.

I think sharper coaches identify and correct some of the issues much, much quicker. I'm not sure Jay has really even fixed the run game, hopefully the Bills game playcalling wasn't a aberration like the Rams game.

[quote]As someone else pointed out, we don't see the back room leaks of old, we see everyone buying in, and the teammates on the field sticking up for one another, both offense and defense. It should give Skins fans a lot of hope going forward, because these are the structural changes that we have all been longing to see since DS fired Marty.[/quote]I agree with a lot of what you say here. But don't give Jay credit for controlling the leaks because in most franchises not having leaks is the norm. And the previous leaks he was a part of.

[quote]It's still precarious though, 2 losses to Philly and Dallas and the off season has an entirely different feel. Either way though we have a successful first year of the rebuild.[/quote]Depends on how they play. If everything holds up (Kirk plays well, defense is decent) this team is still about a couple of drafts early for contention.

And even though Jay himself destabilized the QB position in year 1; regardless of what happen this season (W/L) it can be viewed as a success because moving forward there is stability to the QB position.

With all that being said it sure would be nice to take advantage of this gift of crappy NFC East though. Its a good sign to be able win while you re-tool.

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The only thing I will say 30 regarding the run game, is that IF (and its a big if) the goal is to move the team in a certain direction, and this year is a known re-building year (for example, SM saying that we may not win a lot of games but teams will know they played the Skins), then altering the run game style midseason, when 4 critical players (2 OL and 2 TE) went out, doesn't make as much sense as getting the team going in the direction that the coach wants it to go. So you deal with crappy run output, but keep teaching your fundamentals, your scheme, your plan, and you keep looking for the players that make that work.

Now I know everyone here will scream a coach should adjust to his players, but is that ALWAYS a valid statement? If as in our case the top 4 options go down, should you adjust the entire offensive structure to fit players who aren't in the long term plan, or should you look toward the future and just acknowledge that we don't have the horses to pull right now.

It's a fine line, and if we were in year 3 of SM/JG, and the whole 53man roster was built with one design in mind I would say yes tweak the offense to the next guy up, but we have players from multiple schemes, and a HC who clearly has a scheme that he thinks he can win with.

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[quote=Skinzman;1133823]When RG3 finally decides to release the ball, he is a good passer. He just has to make the decision to throw it and not stand in the pocket until he takes a sack. The problem RG3 will have in Chips system is making fast decisions and acting on them correctly. Doesnt matter if people get open if he wont throw the ball on time.[/quote]

Robert Griffin is a spread offense, read option quarterback.... he has little if any true quarterback awareness....had he gone to Stanford and played under Harbaugh instead of going to Baylor and playing under Briles, he would be a far different quarterback right now.

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[quote=30gut;1133946]And even though Jay himself destabilized the QB position in year 1; regardless of what happen this season (W/L) it can be viewed as a success because moving forward there is stability to the QB position.[/quote]

How should the QB position have been handled last year?

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1133952]The only thing I will say 30 regarding the run game, is that IF (and its a big if) the goal is to move the team in a certain direction, and this year is a known re-building year (for example, SM saying that we may not win a lot of games but teams will know they played the Skins), then altering the run game style midseason, when 4 critical players (2 OL and 2 TE) went out, doesn't make as much sense as getting the team going in the direction that the coach wants it to go. So you deal with crappy run output, but keep teaching your fundamentals, your scheme, your plan, and you keep looking for the players that make that work.[/quote]I'm certain there is goal in mind from Scott concerning how/what type of player will be acquired going forward. I'm also sure that another goal is to maximize the available talent. I don't view the 2 as mutually exclusive. You don't need to have a crappy run output to maintain teaching your fundamentals, scheme and plan.

[quote]Now I know everyone here will scream a coach should adjust to his players, but is that ALWAYS a valid statement?[/quote]For me? Yes. Absolutely.

Is it easy? Nope.

In fact I think very few coaches, are actually good at it. I think the league is filled with good coaches that can basically only coach their scheme in their terminology and their is nothing wrong with that. Its the elite coaches, imo, that have the ability to adapt and its that ability that allows some organizations and teams to have sustained success.

[quote]If as in our case the top 4 options go down, should you adjust the entire offensive structure to fit players who aren't in the long term plan, or should you look toward the future and just acknowledge that we don't have the horses to pull right now.[/quote]Right now we're talking in broad undefined strokes here and that usually doesn't work well with football. But from my view you don't have to adjust "an entire offensive structure" to adjust to injuries/changes in personnel. Coaching is about adjustments. From play to play from game to game.

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

[quote=30gut;1134023]I'm certain there is goal in mind from Scott concerning how/what type of player will be acquired going forward. I'm also sure that another goal is to maximize the available talent. I don't view the 2 as mutually exclusive. You don't need to have a crappy run output to maintain teaching your fundamentals, scheme and plan.

For me? Yes. Absolutely.

Is it easy? Nope.

In fact I think very few coaches, are actually good at it. I think the league is filled with good coaches that can basically only coach their scheme in their terminology and their is nothing wrong with that. Its the elite coaches, imo, that have the ability to adapt and its that ability that allows some organizations and teams to have sustained success.

Right now we're talking in broad undefined strokes here and that usually doesn't work well with football. But from my view you don't have to adjust "an entire offensive structure" to adjust to injuries/changes in personnel. Coaching is about adjustments. From play to play from game to game.[/quote]
I think Gruden has gotten a lot better about in game adjustments, but I disagree that when 4-5 scheme critical players go out, you adjust your offense to sub-par talent (IN A TRUE REBUILDING YEAR). I disagree for the simple reason that you want to find out which players can and will learn the scheme you are implementing.

I'm really not talking broad strokes. I am saying that the Skins, this year, with this roster should not have adjusted their scheme to include more use of DY as a blocking fullback, IF their goal is to see how players stepped up to the roles they need to fill going forward. Does it make our team record worse this year, yes, does it also fit with SM's mentality of building our team for the future, yes.

Every fan wants to win every game, but I think this year (and maybe only this year) coaching gets a small pass because of three very real factors:
1) the roster is not very deep, I expect that to be a non-issue next year
2) at 2 or 3 key spots that were not top priority areas (TE/Left side OL/WR) we took multiple season impacting injuries
3) the team fundamentals have been lacking for several years, and upper management hasn't helped till SM seemingly stepped in and said that aint the way it's done.

Re: Bills Post Game Massacre. U like thats and dislikes
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1134025]... but I disagree that when 4-5 scheme critical players go out, you adjust your offense to sub-par talent [/quote]Which 4-5 players? And in what part of the scheme do you think they are critical to? And in what way do you mean to adjust your offense? This is what I mean by broad strokes.

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1134025]I'm really not talking broad strokes. I am saying that the Skins, this year, with this roster should not have adjusted their scheme to include more use of DY as a blocking fullback,[/quote]I couldn't disagree more. The goal is to win games. If using a FB helps you win games then that is the direction your offense should move. The function of a coach/team is to win, the form or style or scheme they win with is secondary or a by product of maximizing personnel.

[quote]IF their goal is to see how players stepped up to the roles they need to fill going forward. Does it make our team record worse this year, yes, does it also fit with SM's mentality of building our team for the future, yes.[/quote]Again, imo are creating a false dichotomy. I doubt Scott's view for the future includes losing winnable games because the coaches chose not to make adjustments.

Good convo anyhow, just another point we disagree on.

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[quote=30gut;1134029]Which 4-5 players? And in what part of the scheme do you think they are critical to? And in what way do you mean to adjust your offense? This is what I mean by broad strokes.[/quote]

Niles Paul, Logan Paulsen, Lauvau, for the year, DJax, Lichtensteiger for substantial parts early. But I really believe you know the players that we lost due to injury, so I don't think it's broadstrokes.

edit: add answer to other questions:

Specifically critical to JG/OL Coach Run Scheme

Specifically, putting DY or FB in or going to a power run scheme that does not rely on 2-3 TE sets.

[quote]

I couldn't disagree more. The goal is to win games. If using a FB helps you win games then that is the direction your offense should move. The function of a coach/team is to win, the form or style or scheme they win with is secondary or a by product of maximizing personnel.

Again, imo are creating a false dichotomy. I doubt Scott's view for the future includes losing winnable games because the coaches chose not to make adjustments.

[B]Good convo anyhow, just another point we disagree on[/B].[/quote]

I agree that we disagree, and it's a good back and forth. I think early on, SM set the bar not at the number of wins this team ends with, but with the evaluation of how the players play- football intensity, football smarts, etc. And I think Gruden set the base for what his players need to be able to do. My expectation is that SM and Gruden are on the exact same page, somewhat do to the failures early on.

I disagree with the premise that in a first year full body shakedown and rebuild, you play to subpar talent's ability, and make no mistake by the time we were at the 4th new TE, we are speaking of sub par ability. You set the standard and if players don't meet that standard you move to the next one. But in the current Salary cap based NFL, you can't just do that willy nilly, and you have to take time to evaluate each player. That's what good coaches/GM's do.

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I remember when we first switched to 3-4 scheme, Lorenzo Alexander went from special teams stud/budding player on the rise to looking mediocre and not being able to justify keeping him around even with his importance on special teams.

Scheme does matter for certain players depending on their skill set and what they are asked to do in certain schemes.

Who can forget Jeremiah Trotter being a stud on the Eagles, awful for us, and then pretty good again even as an older vet when he went back to the Eagles? The Redskins simply asked him to do things outside of what made him so good in Philly which was primarily shoot gaps and play along the line of scrimmage.

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[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1133973]How should the QB position have been handled last year?[/QUOTE]


Dont even ask, he will take you down the rabbit hole!