[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1061237]Did they do anything in Georgia in 2008?[/QUOTE]

There was some intense finger-wagging and, unlikely as it sounds, a harrumph.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[url]http://sofrep.com/33526/soviet-reunion-the-power-play-behind-putins-invasion-of-crimea/[/url]

Good information

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Russia's Black Sea Fleet says it has no plans to launch assault on Ukrainian military units in Crimea - Interfax via @Reuters

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1061246]Russia's Black Sea Fleet says it has no plans to launch assault on Ukrainian military units in Crimea - Interfax via @Reuters[/quote]

Yea right, the media is so full of crap.....
I suppose an alternative response could be..."Yes, we are going to attack at 5:00 AM on Thursday morning. Here is a list of ships that will be attacking at the following coordinates.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

I tell ya I think that retraction is bs, u don't release the original statement like that without going thru alllll the channels in the kremlin. I think they got their fingers crossed.

Bs coming from the Russian ambassador to the un about ethic Russians being threatened and attacked within the Ukraine. The un needs to send peacekeepers in now. I would float the idea of a no fly zone over western Ukraine, it's justified at this point.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Kerry pledged $1 billion in energy subsidies to Ukraine.


Well that's a nice first course of action.


[url=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/04/1-billion-thats-how-much-kerry-just-pledged-to-ukraine-and-putin-breaks-his-silence/]$1 Billion: That’s How Much Kerry Just Pledged to Ukraine — and Putin Breaks His Silence | TheBlaze.com[/url]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/kerry-in-kiev-pledges-1-billion-in-us-aid/2014/03/04/9f425fc0-a398-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html]Kerry, in Kiev, pledges $1 billion in U.S. aid - The Washington Post[/url]




Meanwhile, our military is training...

[url=http://theweek.com/article/index/257285/speedreads-gay-and-lesbian-troops-perform-in-drag-on-american-military-base]Gay and lesbian troops perform in drag on American military base - The Week[/url]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

That's a billion wasted dollars.
:-(

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Hey, what's a billion dollars theses days. You can spend that on a website that doesn't work!

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Viktor Yanukovych looks less and less like the legitimate President of Ukraine, to me. When the next elections happen, what will Putin do if a majority of Crimeans vote against the way the western Ukraine does?

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1061433]Hey, what's a billion dollars theses days. You can spend that on a website that doesn't work![/quote]

...or give it to old rich white guys so it can trickle down. :doh:

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/we-control-everything-crimea-breaks-ties-with-ukraine/article17266761/]‘We control everything’: Crimea breaks ties with Ukraine - The Globe and Mail[/url]


LOL. Nobody believe this bullshit propaganda coming out of Crimea.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1061432]That's a billion wasted dollars.
:-([/quote]

The compassion on this board is inspiring.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061542]The compassion on this board is inspiring.[/quote]

It has nothing to do with compassion.
If Putin decides to steamroll The Ukraine then that billion may well have been paintball guns we gave them.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[URL="http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/we-control-everything-crimea-breaks-ties-with-ukraine/article17266761/"]Crimea’s new Prime Minister says he is taking control of all military forces and government departments in the territory, declaring an official break with Kiev.[/URL]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061538]...or give it to old rich white guys so it can trickle down. :doh:[/quote]

At least it would stay in our own country.


Your brainwashed anti-rich posts are getting tiring. :doh:


That last one even had racist overtones. The former hippie, still pot-smoking colleges professors everywhere are proud of you.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

i agree with NCskins, and im not anti rich...im pro middle class

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1061548]It has nothing to do with compassion.
If Putin decides to steamroll The Ukraine then that billion may well have been paintball guns we gave them.[/quote]

It's not going to happen, but I personally doubt the Russian Army would steamroll the Ukranian army. In the Georgia episode, the Georgians shot down 20 of the Russians planes. I saw an infographic the other day that showed the comparable forces in the region, and Ukraine was at around a 3-1 disadvantage. That might mean Russia would win, but I think it would be very costly. I am personally a little surprised, and very glad, from a not wanting bloodshed point of view, that the Ukrainian government didn't respond with force.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

^^^ i agree with this

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

A couple of Ukrainian barracks had their weapons confiscated by the first wave of Russian Airborne, there won't be too much of a fight.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Putin is becoming a big pain but I cant help but think that all our proxy wars with former USSR nations that border current Russia (attempting nato missile defense system in Poland and Turkey, steering Ukraine pro EU/West, totally destabilizing Iraq, sanctioning Iran) is the reason.

We have effed with Russia repeatedly with countries right at their door step and Putin is right to say the US sits across the pond and treats other countries like lab rats in political experiments.

I despise Putin but we are serious international jerks.

I also think Putin was very dumb to act so unilaterally and aggressively and the US and EU can really capitalize on this opportunity. No one is standing with Russia on this.

Russian economy has lost over 75 billion on Monday alone.

USA can now justify some of their clandestine political interference.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1061621]A couple of Ukrainian barracks had their weapons confiscated by the first wave of Russian Airborne, there won't be too much of a fight.[/quote]

The first wave Russia had complete surprise. If they tried to fight a ground war I doubt very seriously that they would have any kind of air superiority and claiming and holding ground would be difficult. BUT that doesn't mean at this point Ukraine could re-take Crimea without a LOT of bloodshed. I think that is lost to them now, and economically that is a major blow.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1061621]A couple of Ukrainian barracks had their weapons confiscated by the first wave of Russian Airborne, there won't be too much of a fight.[/quote]

Yup....it could be like France in WW2.
5,000 Russian tanks come rolling in to western Ukraine and they just lay down for them.
Putin sets up a new new pro Russian govt and then leaves and its like back in the good old soviet days.
And Putin will guarantee somehow that Sevastopol will always be open/pro Russian since its his home port for the black sea fleet which leads to the Med.

Either way its all about limiting westernization from coming to his doorstep.
A pro Russian Ukraine creates that buffer zone for him.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[IMG]http://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1623616_821717517842327_354010851_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Crimea is lost. Unfortunately, the EU nor the US saw this coming and when we did we were too slow to act. Still think Russia may not stop at Crimea, Putin is a serious threat to the rest of the Ukraine and quite frankly, Im surprised we are not seeing this and reacting.

Any type of sanctions are slow moving and you cant just flick a switch unless you are throughly prepared. Obama, the US government and our intelligent community werent prepared for Russia to invade.

To the rest of the world, this is an embarrassment for the Europeans and especially the US. I think if we should respond at least with something else besides costs or threats.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

I dont think this is an embarrassment to the US. (syria is another story). Engaging in a knee jerk military response would be costly, divisive and ultimately produce the same result as applying sanctions.

i like to think "what would china do"? China would use this act of aggression to further isolate russia and damage their economy for the next 2 decades.

I think this is an embarrassment to Putin. He over-played his hand and is not sure how to untie his hands while saving face.

Does the benefits of Crimea (or however you spell it) outweigh the long term damage this will do to the russian economy?

i think the business sector of russia is pissed. a govt conducted poll of russians found 80% disapproved of the invasion.

this could be a huge benefit to the US if we play our cards right.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

What OTM said.

Unfortunately, the brains trust at 1600 will turn it into an epic fail.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061639]Crimea is lost. Unfortunately, the EU nor the US saw this coming and when we did we were too slow to act. Still think Russia may not stop at Crimea, Putin is a serious threat to the rest of the Ukraine and quite frankly, Im surprised we are not seeing this and reacting.

Any type of sanctions are slow moving and you cant just flick a switch unless you are throughly prepared. Obama, the US government and our intelligent community werent prepared for Russia to invade.

To the rest of the world, this is an embarrassment for the Europeans and especially the US. I think if we should respond at least with something else besides costs or threats.[/quote]

How it is an embarrassment?
We are not protectors of the world (despite the world police argument and stuff).
We didn't let any bad thing happen.
Russia has been frog marching the Crimea since WWII anyway.
We don't owe the Crimeans anything.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

People forgetting the treaty we signed with Russia and the Ukraine.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061657]People forgetting the treaty we signed with Russia and the Ukraine.[/quote]

What does that mean?
You want the US military in The Ukraine?
You want a shooting war with Russia?
You're talking about guaranteeing the Ukraines sovereignty?
We would have to counter-invade the Crimea to do that.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1061666]What does that mean?
You want the US military in The Ukraine?
You want a shooting war with Russia?[/quote]

I dont want a shooting war with anybody

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061669]I dont want a shooting war with anybody[/quote]

Well I doubt they will leave if we ask nicely.

And since they are the third largest energy producer in the world any sanctions wont do bupkiss.

So we are left with diplomacy..........

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

I remember many of these same people talking about how we were helping the people in Iraq by "liberating" them and giving them freedom. Guess freedom and liberating isn't so noble in Ukraine.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061679]I remember many of these same people talking about how we were helping the people in Iraq by "liberating" them and giving them freedom. Guess freedom and liberating isn't so noble in Ukraine.[/quote]

Nice dig.....but your comparison sucks.
Going up against Saddams military vs Putins is vastly different.
Unless you're interested in seeing 10's of thousands of Americans die in the Ukraine. Not to mention the nukes.
I'm pretty sure the aggressor has nukes this time.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061679]I remember many of these same people talking about how we were helping the people in Iraq by "liberating" them and giving them freedom. Guess freedom and liberating isn't so noble in Ukraine.[/quote]

Its wierd isnt it? A treaty is a commitment to the international community, not just the nation. We told the Ukranians we, along with the UK and (maybe others, unsure) we will defend them. But yet we let a criminal (ukraine president) escape to Russia, who then invades the Ukraine because a criminal asked them.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1061680]Nice dig.....but your comparison sucks.
Going up against Saddams military vs Putins is vastly different.
Unless you're interested in seeing 10's of thousands of Americans die in the Ukraine. Not to mention the nukes.
I'm pretty sure the aggressor has nukes this time.[/quote]


Oh, so we only bully those with less weaponry? I guess that's how we rate people's scale of "freedom".


Even if we did go to war with Russia, they wouldn't use nukes. I don't think any country will ever use them after seeing the aftermath of our 2 atomic bombs.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061681]Its wierd isnt it? A treaty is a commitment to the international community, not just the nation. We told the Ukranians we, along with the UK and (maybe others, unsure) we will defend them. But [COLOR="Red"][B]yet we let a criminal (ukraine president) escape to Russia,[/B][/COLOR] who then invades the Ukraine because a criminal asked them.[/quote]

Thats amusing.
And absurd.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

the 1993 treaty does bind us but i think at this stage it requires us to hold mandatory meetings to eval the situation. i read that in an article a few days ago so dont hold me 100% to that.

nc skins - when you say "same people" do you mean talking political pundits like mccain or warpathers? i think politicians and joe public learned a lot about military intervention with Iraq. i know now that if there is any other way to achieve the goal without military intervention, it should be explored and given ample time to play out. boots on the ground is the last option imo.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1061686]Thats amusing.
And absurd.[/quote]

I admit, that was a little much Ivan Walton

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=over the mountain;1061624]Putin is becoming a big pain but I cant help but think that all our proxy wars with former USSR nations that border current Russia (attempting nato missile defense system in Poland and Turkey, steering Ukraine pro EU/West, totally destabilizing Iraq, sanctioning Iran) is the reason.

We have effed with Russia repeatedly with countries right at their door step and Putin is right to say the US sits across the pond and treats other countries like lab rats in political experiments.

I despise Putin but we are serious international jerks.

I also think Putin was very dumb to act so unilaterally and aggressively and the US and EU can really capitalize on this opportunity. No one is standing with Russia on this.

Russian economy has lost over 75 billion on Monday alone.

USA can now justify some of their clandestine political interference.[/quote]None of our actions that you describe are "proxy wars" by us.

Please don't blame any of what Putin is doing to Ukraine on us. He did the same thing to Georgia: "Russify" a region over time, then split that territory off into a client state friendly to Russia.

We aren't treating other countries as lab experiments. A better analogy would be that Putin is playing Go with/on Eastern Europe.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[IMG]http://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1970676_599373716821484_689474878_n.jpg[/IMG]