Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=skinsguy;936499]Exactly what NFL coaching experience do you have that would make you qualified to speak about the fundamentals of coaching in the NFL and whether or not Mike Shanahan has been performing those fundamentals correctly?[/quote]What in the name of hades are you talking about? Am I really unqualified to compare and contrast two teams over the last three years?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936496]I think though if Shanahan was a half-decent head coach, any on-field issues related to Zorn being over his head should have been corrected by 2010. Some were (penalties for example), I think, but for a guy who we are giving a ton of credit to for making the roster better/young, there sure was many millions of dollars given to Larry Johnson and Donovan McNabb to be old.

There was also a lot of rebuilding moves that Shanahan opted not to make in the name of winning right away. DeAngelo Hall is STILL here. Santana Moss got paid with younger, more talented receivers out there. Albert Haynesworth did make the 2010 team, sort of. We traded a sixth round pick plus a useful piece for Tim Hightower. The contract standoff with London Fletcher (which the Redskins did --it should be noted-- win) turned me off a bit. And now with RG3, we know exactly what the top of every draft Shanahan will make as Redskins head coach will look like.

I do think a big part of the plan has been to get younger, but the thing we can say about the 2012 team is that every piece Mike Shanahan intended to put in place while coach of the Redskins is already in place. I don't think anyone, including coach Shanahan, thinks this is a complete team. But I think he really believes it's a good team, or he wouldn't have built it this way.

I'm not outright rejecting the perspective that Shanahan made the Redskins younger with the intent of winning over a long span of time as opposed to right away. That might well prove to be true. If so, it's almost certainly going to require someone else to come in here and finish what he started.[/quote]

LJ got cut, dont think he had any guaranteed money.

They had no possible way to cut Haynesworth, he was owed that bonus whether he was on the team or not. It was all done before him, and it created quite a circus, at least Shanahan made him run some sprints. The front office did all the genius work with the cap....

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

I'm honestly not going to judge shanny yet. Our team just isn't that good. Our O-line was junk before the injuries.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936481]Here's the big point:

Oakland Raiders, 2009-2011
5-11 (got blown out by Zorn's Redskins at home)
8-8
8-8

Washington Redskins 2009-2011
4-12
6-10
5-11

Were the Redskins ever in worse shape than the Raiders? Almost certainly not. But the Raiders stopped making toxic organizational decisions for a moment, and while they didn't become a good team, they started to win big against bad teams.

Achieving mediocrity isn't the hard part of rebuilding a team. If Zorn was doing things fundamentally wrong, Shanahan should have had that corrected by year one. The fact that he didn't get that corrected by year two is especially troubling.[/quote]The irony is the same people that praise Shanahan now decry how devoid of talent the team was before.
Yet the team before was as productive as the team now despite having far less talent OL, WR etc.
The irony of the Raiders franchise is that they used the QB that Shanahan cast off to gain stability.

Zorn wasn't as bad as people thought, (and if Zorn was that makes Campbell play here even more impressive) but then again Campbell wasn't as bad as people thought.
Shanahan hasn't been as good as people thought.
Myself included I was Mike Shanahan biggest proponent but that was back when I thought that Bruce Allen was an actual GM and that Kyle Shanahan would be bring Mike Shanahan Denver/WCO offense and not some pass centric varaint.

But, that is all water under the bridge for me.
The Mike Shanahan regime has bought themselves more time by drafting Robert Griffin.
And although they over paid, Griffin is a stud.
I'm one of the few that think Griffin is a better prospect the Andrew Luck.
And for the sake on Griffin's development Mike has bought himself 2 years.
Would I rather Rob Chudzinski be the HC for Griffin? Yes.

But right now we're married to Mike Shanahan and he to Griffin.
Hopefully Griffin's dynamic ability coupled with some good coaching/gameplanning will be enough to overcome some of Mike Shanahan's personnel misques. (like at RT)

-HTTR

Lets go Griff!

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=30gut;936510]The irony is the same people that praise Shanahan now decry how devoid of talent the team was before.
Yet the team before was as productive as the team now despite having far less talent OL, WR etc.
[B]The irony of the Raiders franchise is that they used the QB that Shanahan cast off to gain stability.[/B]

Zorn wasn't as bad as people thought, (and if Zorn was that makes Campbell play here even more impressive) but then again Campbell wasn't as bad as people thought.
Shanahan hasn't been as good as people thought.
Myself included I was Mike Shanahan biggest proponent but that was back when I thought that Bruce Allen was an actual GM and that [B]Kyle Shanahan would be bring Mike Shanahan Denver/WCO offense and not some pass centric varaint.
[/B]
But, that is all water under the bridge for me.
The Mike Shanahan regime has bought themselves more time by drafting Robert Griffin.
And although they over paid, Griffin is a stud.
I'm one of the few that think Griffin is a better prospect the Andrew Luck.
And for the sake on Griffin's development Mike has bought himself 2 years.
Would I rather Rob Chudzinski be the HC for Griffin? Yes.

But right now we're married to Mike Shanahan and he to Griffin.
Hopefully Griffin's dynamic ability coupled with some good coaching/gameplanning will be enough to overcome some of Mike Shanahan's personnel misques. (like at RT)

-HTTR

Lets go Griff![/quote]

Who are you talking about?
Why would you have though that?

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[quote=SmootSmack;936511]Who are you talking about?
Why would you have though that?[/quote]Jason Campbell,but I should correct.
Mike Shanahan didn't cast off Campbell, I fell into the media perception for a second.
Campbell asked to be traded because he didn't want to be the back-up to McNabb and felt he could still start in the NFL.
And Shanahan actually did him a solid and allowed him to seek a trade.

Kyle comes from the Houston Texans who under Gary Kubiac run the Mike Shanahan Denver WCO and keep with Mike's balanced pass-run ratio of near 50-50.
Kyle is the only playcaller from that system that leans heavily towards the pass with a 60-40 ratio.

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[quote=GTripp0012;936462]I can at least entertain the argument that Shanahan has brought something important to the team that was lacking with Jim Zorn, even if it hasn't shown in the standings. But I think the discussion should begin there, and back with the decisions made two years ago that shaped this team to be the way it is today, and not with a total write off of the last two seasons.

The problem is that if the Redskins underachieve again this year and go 6-10, then some people are going to claim that no one could have seen that coming and we need a longer time period to evaluate Mr. Shanahan.

But the truth is: the reason that no one is picking the Redskins to win the division in Shanahan's third year is because we've seen over the last two years that things aren't different than they were under Zorn, so we're looking for small positive signs from RG3 et al, instead of big things from our football team.[/quote]


Yes, things are much different with Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan than they were under Vinny Cerratto and Jim Zorn. First thing is since Allen and Shanahan came on board, there has been tremendous overhaul to the roster two years and counting. The Redskins had a average draft in Mike Shanahan's first year, and the last two drafts they have drafted extremely well. One of the reasons the Redskins struggled on offense last year was the QB play. With RG3 although he's a rookie, the quarterback play will be much improved. I've been on NFL.com and I've seen what the so-called experts are predicting for the Redskins. Some analysts have the Redskins going 7-9. Other have the Redskins being 8-8. And one said 6-10.

I think they are all wrong. In addition to those draft picks, Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan has signed some key free agents on the offensive side of the ball too. Under Grossman and Beck at quarterback, the Redskins finished 16th in total offense. With Griffin III at quarterback along with Garcon, Moss, Hankerson, J. Morgan, Fred Davis, Niles Paul, I expect that offensive ranking to be greater than it was last season. Include an above average running game, and this Redskins offense can be in the top 10 this season.

I expect at worse the Redskins to be 8-8. At best they are at least a 10-6 team or better.

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I agree with you that the Redskins should be very good this year. At least, they've done enough over the last two offseasons to put themselves in position to be very good this year. I suspect that they haven't changed enough to go get it done on a week to week campaign, but they have big play ability on both offense and defense.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=GTripp0012;936525]I agree with you that the Redskins should be very good this year. At least, they've done enough over the last two offseasons to put themselves in position to be very good this year. I suspect that they haven't changed enough to go get it done on a week to week campaign, but they have big play ability on both offense and defense.[/quote]

Why are you still impersonating GTripp? Have you kidnapped him? :)

Holy smokes, if Tripp has guarded optimism, maybe this will be a very good year.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

I pretty much always have guarded optimism. I just can't buy in wholly to what I've seen the last two years until something convinces me it's different now.

That's why I've been a bit slower to get swept up in the RG3 madness. RG3 is awesome. But RG3 running Kyle Shanahan's offense is less exciting than it could be if he was running Andy Reid's offense or Kevin Gilbride's offense or even Mike Martz' offense. So I see this season as a mixed bag, but I'm cautiously optimistic about their chances this season.

There's two kinds of bad teams. Ones with bad talent, and ones with bad leadership. Bad leadership can be corrected with a new coach and 1 draft. Like San Fran last year. Unfortunately we were the former, and that takes a ton of time because you have to rebuild through the draft. Even if we're not there yet, the wheels are turning in the right direction. I could be wrong but I think 8 out of our nine draft picks this year made the team. When was the last time that happened in DC? Moving on Up.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

It happened in 2008?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

Didn't 11 of 12 draft picks get on the field at some point last season?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

The title of this thread comes at interesting time.
Andy Reid has not yet been offered an extension and his job security has been questioned or at least challenged. M. Vick has been soft lately and needs to show he can survive at least one season.
Romo and the Dallas staff look vulnerable to me. That offensive line looks leaky. Romo's elusiveness will be tested this year. They have to make it to the playoffs to survive - not a guarantee.
We have two young promising Qb's that up to now show they can play in this league. I am not claiming them to be studs yet, but I have not been disappointed in what I have seen so far. The young OL they drafted this year look like they might be able play some. That is good because they will be needed. We got an ILB, CB and safety late in the draft that show some ability. They are finding talent, an area our last FO was mentally challenged.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=SmootSmack;936511]Who are you talking about?
[/quote]

No kidding, the first year Campbell was benched repeatedly for Gradkowski and only started due to injury, the second year he lucked into a couple wins while throwing for 150 yards and the usual one TD, while his running game did all the heavy lifting until he got injured NOT SLIDING (as usual) and was replaced by a mediocre Carson Palmer.

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Well, can't have an evaluation without a draft history. (shamelessly copied off wiki - [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_draft_history"]LINK[/URL]) Even though it's too early to conclusively judge even the 2010 draft, here it is.


2010 Draft
Rd Pick Overall Name Position College
1 4 4 Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
4 5 103 Perry Riley LB Louisiana State
6 5 174 Dennis Morris TE Louisiana Tech
7 12 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
7 22 229 Erik Cook G New Mexico
7 24 231 Selvish Capers OT West Virginia

2011 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 16 16 Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
2 9 41 Jarvis Jenkins DT Clemson
3 15 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Miami
4 8 105 Roy Helu RB Nebraska
5 15 146 DeJon Gomes S Nebraska
5 24 155 Niles Paul WR Nebraska
6 12 177 Evan Royster RB Penn State
6 13 178 Aldrick Robinson WR Southern Methodist
7 10 213 Brandyn Thompson CB Boise State
7 14 217 Maurice Hurt OT Florida
7 21 224 Markus White DE Florida State
7 50 253 Chris Neild DT West Virginia

2012 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 2 2 Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
3 8 71 Josh LeRibeus OG Southern Methodist
4 7 102 Kirk Cousins QB Mich St
4 24 119 Keenan Robinson ILB Texas
5 6 141 Adam Gettis OG Iowa
6 3 173 Alfred Morris RB FAU
6 23 193 Tom Compton OT South Dakota
7 6 213 Richard Crawford CB Southern Methodist
7 10 217 Jordan Bernstine S Iowa

Thoughts? Anybody want to grade this so far?

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

6 starters so far, all the first rounders have pro bowl type potential, a little bit of upside elsewhere?

Solidly average, and trending a little bit upward (above average in 2011 and 2012 combined).

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=HailGreen28;936549]Well, can't have an evaluation without a draft history. (shamelessly copied off wiki - [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_draft_history"]LINK[/URL]) Even though it's too early to conclusively judge even the 2010 draft, here it is.


2010 Draft
Rd Pick Overall Name Position College
1 4 4 Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
4 5 103 Perry Riley LB Louisiana State
6 5 174 Dennis Morris TE Louisiana Tech
7 12 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
7 22 229 Erik Cook G New Mexico
7 24 231 Selvish Capers OT West Virginia

2011 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 16 16 Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
2 9 41 Jarvis Jenkins DT Clemson
3 15 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Miami
4 8 105 Roy Helu RB Nebraska
5 15 146 DeJon Gomes S Nebraska
5 24 155 Niles Paul WR Nebraska
6 12 177 Evan Royster RB Penn State
6 13 178 Aldrick Robinson WR Southern Methodist
7 10 213 Brandyn Thompson CB Boise State
7 14 217 Maurice Hurt OT Florida
7 21 224 Markus White DE Florida State
7 50 253 Chris Neild DT West Virginia

2012 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 2 2 Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
3 8 71 Josh LeRibeus OG Southern Methodist
4 7 102 Kirk Cousins QB Mich St
4 24 119 Keenan Robinson ILB Texas
5 6 141 Adam Gettis OG Iowa
6 3 173 Alfred Morris RB FAU
6 23 193 Tom Compton OT South Dakota
7 6 213 Richard Crawford CB Southern Methodist
7 10 217 Jordan Bernstine S Iowa

Thoughts? Anybody want to grade this so far?[/quote]
I'd give 2010 a C because while we got two starters from that draft, one has a major mark against him in Williams. The rest of that draft class was worthless.

The 2011 draft gets an A-. Seven players will be counted on to contribute in 2012, that's pretty impressive. I doubt there are any potential All Pro players other than Kerrigan but all of them will be playing a role every Sunday.

Of course it is too soon to judge the 2012 draft but I'll go with a grade no lower than a B-. We've solved the QB spot two deep for the next 5 years or worst case have a potential trade chip in Cousins. I think Crawford has something at the CB position and have hopes that LeRib and Gettis will be factors on the OL in 2013 and beyond.

Part of the plan was clearly to get younger and more 'home grown'. I've noted in a couple of threads that we have drafted the most number of players (21) in the league and the most OL (7) over the past 3 drafts, although 4 OL and 18 (plus Nield) remain on the roster. That is a huge improvement from the old, mismatched roster that was here in 2009.

One of the things the Steelers, Patriots, Giants of the league have done is cultivate a culture and a 'brand' for lack of a better term and they have drafted, traded and signed free agents according to their philosophy. This is what Shanahan is trying to do IMO.

[QUOTE=KI Skins Fan;936543]Didn't 11 of 12 draft picks get on the field at some point last season?[/QUOTE]

See, there you go. Thats a ton of young talent. So when one ends up being a great player, we'll have them on the way up, playing for that big dollar second contract. Good things are coming. The only bad thing is that our whole division does that really well. Except Dallas...they do nothing well...ever...except suck ass.

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We seem to do fine in the first four rounds. After that, there doesn't seem to be all that much potential. My preliminary conclusion would be that trading down hasn't helped much, if at all.

Allow me to restate the obvious: based on what we gave up in future high draft picks for RGIII, we need him to be an outstanding player. If he becomes our Franchise QB for ten years, Shanahan's draft grade goes way up IMO.

I think Cousins was a shrewd pick. If he develops the way I think he will, then he will be a valuable asset either on the field or as a trade chip.

Also, if Leonard Hankerson and Jarvis Jenkins can get back to where they were physically before their injuries, I think they could become stars.

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The last two drafts have been B's. Now those B's can also turn into A's over the course of a season or two. But right now, I think he has brought fukking sanity back to drafting here in DC. Thank god.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=HailGreen28;936549]Well, can't have an evaluation without a draft history. (shamelessly copied off wiki - [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_draft_history"]LINK[/URL]) Even though it's too early to conclusively judge even the 2010 draft, here it is.


2010 Draft
Rd Pick Overall Name Position College
1 4 4 Trent Williams OT Oklahoma
4 5 103 Perry Riley LB Louisiana State
6 5 174 Dennis Morris TE Louisiana Tech
7 12 219 Terrence Austin WR UCLA
7 22 229 Erik Cook G New Mexico
7 24 231 Selvish Capers OT West Virginia

2011 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 16 16 Ryan Kerrigan DE Purdue
2 9 41 Jarvis Jenkins DT Clemson
3 15 79 Leonard Hankerson WR Miami
4 8 105 Roy Helu RB Nebraska
5 15 146 DeJon Gomes S Nebraska
5 24 155 Niles Paul WR Nebraska
6 12 177 Evan Royster RB Penn State
6 13 178 Aldrick Robinson WR Southern Methodist
7 10 213 Brandyn Thompson CB Boise State
7 14 217 Maurice Hurt OT Florida
7 21 224 Markus White DE Florida State
7 50 253 Chris Neild DT West Virginia

2012 Draft
Round Pick Overall Name Position College
1 2 2 Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
3 8 71 Josh LeRibeus OG Southern Methodist
4 7 102 Kirk Cousins QB Mich St
4 24 119 Keenan Robinson ILB Texas
5 6 141 Adam Gettis OG Iowa
6 3 173 Alfred Morris RB FAU
6 23 193 Tom Compton OT South Dakota
7 6 213 Richard Crawford CB Southern Methodist
7 10 217 Jordan Bernstine S Iowa

Thoughts? Anybody want to grade this so far?[/quote]

out of 27 picks, 14 picks were 6th or 7th rounders. just saying

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[quote=Chico23231;936568]out of 27 picks, 14 picks were 6th or 7th rounders. just saying[/quote]

Trading down trying to build depth. Could work out in the long run but all of the 6th and 7th rounders from 2010 have been cut, along with Markus White from 2011. Also, Nield (2011) might have been cut if he hadn't gone on IR.

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[quote=GTripp0012;936555]6 starters so far, all the first rounders have pro bowl type potential, a little bit of upside elsewhere?

Solidly average, and trending a little bit upward (above average in 2011 and 2012 combined).[/quote]Yeah. I really liked the 2011 draft. Neither Shanallen nor the previous regime seems to like 2nd-3rd rounders though, and I thought that was the "sweet" part of the draft. 1st round talent at much lower salaries. I don't know how true that is with the new rookie salary cap.

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[quote=GTripp0012;936503]What in the name of hades are you talking about? Am I really unqualified to compare and contrast two teams over the last three years?[/quote]

In regards to assessing NFL coaching fundamentals, yes, you're unqualified.

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[quote=Paintrain;936561]I've noted in a couple of threads that we have drafted the most number of players (21) in the league and the most OL (7) over the past 3 drafts[/quote]Agreed with the other stuff you said. I keep seeing from lots of people that we drafted the most players over 3 drafts, only 21 guys, 7 picks a year. Seemed odd for that to be the most, so I looked at a couple other teams:

The past 3 drafts according to [url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com:]Pro-Football-Reference.com - Pro Football Statistics and History[/url]

Patriots - 28 ([URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm"]LINK[/URL])

Eagles - 33! ([URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/draft.htm"]LINK[/URL])

Steelers - 26 ([URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/draft.htm"]LINK[/URL])

Does our "21 players over 3 years" refer to players that survive their first training camp? The most players our franchise has drafted over a 3 year span? Considering the draft used to be 12 rounds deep probably not. Or is it a simple mistake?

Edit: Just counted my own list, lol. We've drafted 21 players the past two drafts, 27 total the past 3 drafts. Looking at those other teams now:

Edit 2: OK, over a two year span:

Patriots: 14
Eagles: 20
Steelers: 16
Redskins: 21

Edit 3: We had the most players drafted the past TWO drafts at 21. Vikings and Eagles each drafted 20. And more than one team drafted more than we did over the past three drafts.

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[quote=44 goes 50 gut;936548]No kidding, the first year Campbell was benched repeatedly for Gradkowski and only started due to injury, the second year he lucked into a couple wins while throwing for 150 yards and the usual one TD, while his running game did all the heavy lifting until he got injured NOT SLIDING (as usual) and was replaced by a mediocre Carson Palmer.[/quote]Lol, right that's exactly how it happened.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=44 goes 50 gut;936548]No kidding, the first year Campbell was benched repeatedly for Gradkowski and only started due to injury, the second year he lucked into a couple wins while throwing for 150 yards and the usual one TD, while his running game did all the heavy lifting until he got injured NOT SLIDING (as usual) and was replaced by a mediocre Carson Palmer.[/quote]

Very convincing post, I can tell you aren't bitter at all about Campbell and have no prejudices against him whatsoever that could potentially make me dismiss your opinion on the subject.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

[quote=mooby;936591]Very convincing post, I can tell you aren't bitter at all about Campbell and have no prejudices against him whatsoever that could potentially make me dismiss your opinion on the subject.[/quote]

Wow defensive much? I'm not bitter at all it doesn't bother me that Campbell is clearly a backup and not a starter in the NFL. It apparently bothers you enough to get all huffy over an unkind description of a backup QB who is two years removed from the Skins... So who's the bitter one?

Dissmiss me all you want ultimately he didn't impress anyone (who matters) enough to get EVEN A SHOT at a starting job, in a league where Kevin Kolb versus John Skelton is a thing. If that's not telling enough; he went to Chicago where he's the backup to the QB who some fans thought wasn't worth trading Campbell for. Hows that for irony... Bitter irony for some I suspect?

I have a Question.... Who really cares about jc being a redskin anymore???

[QUOTE=Paintrain;936561]I'd give 2010 a C because while we got two starters from that draft, one has a major mark against him in Williams. The rest of that draft class was worthless.

The 2011 draft gets an A-. Seven players will be counted on to contribute in 2012, that's pretty impressive. I doubt there are any potential All Pro players other than Kerrigan but all of them will be playing a role every Sunday.

Of course it is too soon to judge the 2012 draft but I'll go with a grade no lower than a B-. We've solved the QB spot two deep for the next 5 years or worst case have a potential trade chip in Cousins. I think Crawford has something at the CB position and have hopes that LeRib and Gettis will be factors on the OL in 2013 and beyond.

Part of the plan was clearly to get younger and more 'home grown'. I've noted in a couple of threads that we have drafted the most number of players (21) in the league and the most OL (7) over the past 3 drafts, although 4 OL and 18 (plus Nield) remain on the roster. That is a huge improvement from the old, mismatched roster that was here in 2009.

One of the things the Steelers, Patriots, Giants of the league have done is cultivate a culture and a 'brand' for lack of a better term and they have drafted, traded and signed free agents according to their philosophy. This is what Shanahan is trying to do IMO.[/QUOTE]

Great post I agree but why would Mike have a bad mark for drafting tw? Not like he knew he was a doper but seriously Williams is our best player on offense besides Griff of course. Overall I give them a B- for all three drafts.

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It's all going to come down to whether or not RG3 is a top QB. They have to hit on RG3 and hit big. If they do then that means we have a shot at being a consistent playoff to Supe Bowl contending type of team. If he's middle of the pack or worse then Shanahan and his son will be gone for rolling the dice on this mega trade that failed.

Re: My evaluation of Shanahan starts now
 

Bruce Allen is not going to fire Mike Shanahan. Sure, he could but Shanahan told Snyder from the start that it was going to take time to build this Redskins team into a contender. RG3 is not going to fail. I just don't see it. As soon as the offense comes together, which could very well be this year, the Redskins will be posting 12-4/13-3/14-2 kind of records. And don't forget the Redskins defense is capable of being a top 5 defense.

Sure, the Redskins could have waited on Matt Barkley or Landry Jones in the future instead of trading those picks in order to get Griffin III, but Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan felt that the team could be able to compete now if they had the right quarterback and that right quarterback is Robert Griffin III.

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I'm surprised nobody has balked at the premise of the thread (title). Why on earth would an evaluation of Shanahan NOT begin two years ago...unless you're a total homer for Shanahan and want to "throw out the bad data?"

Mike has made myriad mistakes over the last two years. Every decision at QB has been errant up to RGIII. McNabb was a mistake. Rex a mistake. Beck a mistake. Campbell today is better than any of them so the honest observer would add getting rid of him was a mistake. Jamaal Brown was a huge mistake.

And that's just on the roster side. Bringing his kiddo (Kyle) was a mistake, as was not upgrading defensive coordinator at the first possible chance e.g. Wade Phillips goes to Houston and makes one of the worst defenses in the league (right there w/ the Skins after the 3-4 switch) to a top 5 defense in ONE year. Mike and Wade already worked together so why didn't Wade come aboard?

It's also noteworthy that our two best targets on offense (Davis and Moss) are guys Mike inherited, rather than developed.

Mike gets credit for making the team younger (depth) and RGIII. Hopefully things come together this year and we see results, but as someone else said I won't be the least bit surprised if Mike never wins the division or a playoff game in Washington.

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[quote=44 goes 50 gut;936606]Wow defensive much? I'm not bitter at all it doesn't bother me that Campbell is clearly a backup and not a starter in the NFL. It apparently bothers you enough to get all huffy over an unkind description of a backup QB who is two years removed from the Skins... So who's the bitter one?

Dissmiss me all you want ultimately he didn't impress anyone (who matters) enough to get EVEN A SHOT at a starting job, in a league where Kevin Kolb versus John Skelton is a thing. If that's not telling enough; he went to Chicago where he's the backup to the QB who some fans thought wasn't worth trading Campbell for. Hows that for irony... Bitter irony for some I suspect?[/quote]Lol, you mad huh?
Your perception of the events around Jason Campbell are skewed beyond belief.

-HTTR

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[quote=skinsfaninok;936613]I have a Question.... Who really cares about jc being a redskin anymore???[/quote]

This.

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[quote=skinsfan69;936624][B]It's all going to come down to whether or not RG3 is a top QB. They have to hit on RG3 and hit big. [/B]If they do then that means we have a shot at being a consistent playoff to Supe Bowl contending type of team. If he's middle of the pack or worse then Shanahan and his son will be gone for rolling the dice on this mega trade that failed.[/quote]

All of this

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[quote=skinsfan69;936624]It's all going to come down to whether or not RG3 is a top QB. They have to hit on RG3 and hit big. If they do then that means we have a shot at being a consistent playoff to Supe Bowl contending type of team. If he's middle of the pack or worse then Shanahan and his son will be gone for rolling the dice on this mega trade that failed.[/quote]

Uhhh yes.

QB is the name of the game in the NFL. Having a good one young enough to lead for years is key.

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My hopeless optimism must be kicking in, I think this team can go 9-7 and be in the wildcard hunt.

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[quote=Mattyk;936656]My hopeless optimism must be kicking in, I think this team can go 9-7 and be in the wildcard hunt.[/quote]

Same boat here. If Bob can approximate the type of player many think he can be then he could be worth 3 wins over last year. If we get more performance out of other positions (just a little which isn't a crazy thought since Bob could bring everyone's game up) then we're talking 10 wins maybe. Not in the "likely" category but not as crazy as the "experts" would have everyone believe.